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With the recent Japanese game resurgence, should western developers be wary?

No I meant the perception of how popular some people think Gravity Rush is.

But not even Gravity Rush fans think it's a big franchise. People on this forum are vocal about how good it is, but I've yet to see anyone suggest the franchise is bigger than it actually is. I think you're seeing things that aren't there, Eden.
 

Zukkoyaki

Member
I know GAF loves their Japanese games but in terms of sales this industry is dominated by western companies and I don't see that changing, probably ever.
 

Ushay

Member
A great game is just that, great. In my experience it doesn't really matter where the developer is from.

Witcher 3 = Polish
Horizon = Dutch
GTA V = Scotland?
Batman = London
Nioh, Final Fantasy, Persona = Japan

Talent comes from everywhere. We just want top games. In terms of sales, I think its a marketing and perception issue.
 
I don't think Western devs should be wary, just inspired. Look at some of these games and get excited and go out and make something incredible, try to convince your publisher to let you do something exciting. Same goes for eastern/Japan of course. Don't look at other good games as a threat but as a benchmark to strive for and maybe even raise, be it a small or huge project your on.
 
I'm starting to think GAF has a very skewed look on how these Japanese games are selling compared to their Western Counterparts.

Like For Honor and Ghost Recon are going to substantially outsell any of the Q1 Japanese releases other than Zelda. Horizon as well. Western games are far far larger than Japanese based ones.

I agree. I know a ton of people who have bought For Honor and have downloaded the Ghost Recon beta.

I know nobody who has even heard of say, Nier, which is one of the few games that is frequently cited as evidence of Japan's comeback.

Resident Evil and Zelda are doing well though.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
But not even Gravity Rush fans think it's a big franchise. People on this forum are vocal about how good it is, but I've yet to see anyone suggest the franchise is bigger than it actually is. I think you're seeing things that aren't there, Eden.
There's an acknowledgement from some that yes the series is niche as hell but at the same time, there's that dissonance.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
I actually love Japanese games, I'm not trying to be rude or mean about it. I think its awesome we are seeing a resurgence out of Japanese developers and I really hope it continues. If the thread was "Are we seeing Japanese development turn around from last gen and see better success?" I'd be in here praising it, as that is the direction it looks things are going.

But the idea any of the big dogs in the Western space, Ubi, Activision, EA, 2K etc. feel any threat whatsoever from these games......well I mean the answer to that statement is not in any way shape or form.

I know that...this is why i am annoyed.

I am not looking for AAA western devs to ape Japanese devs, but less of the straighforward realistic machismo run and gun open world microtransactional check list by design would be nice.

But they never will, because as is always said, they feel no threat from other areas, not indies, not Japanese games.

The only thing that scares big AAA pubs is mobile and social gaming and how much money that makes

There's an acknowledgement from some that yes the series is niche as hell but at the same time, there's that dissonance.

People like the franchise and encourage others to come out of their comfort zone and try it. And they get hyped at what they enjoy. That in no way says to anybody that they feel the franchise is big in the west.
 
There's an acknowledgement from some that yes the series is niche as hell but at the same time, there's that dissonance.

I think if you read through the OT and the hype thread in the lead up to GR2, most folks were super thankful to get a sequel at all. I think fans by and large know how Gravity Rush fits into the larger scheme of things.
 
Haven't we blown through most of the top games this year?



The remaining games I can think of that will come out from Japan this year are;

Mario Oddysee
FFXIV Expansion
FFXV DLC
Kingdom Hearts 3 (?)


It's been a legendary run the last 3 months. Incredible amount of fantastic games coming out. Not just by Japanese standards but any. It's incredible.



Will many people play Nier Automata or Gravity Rush? I don't feel most people gamers know what they are. And that's a shame.
 
The answer to all of this is no. The only thing that actually matters in this industry is sales / profit margins. Your games don't get published unless they make money. Western games make much, much, much more money than Japanese ones (in general).

Nier and Yakuza can be as amazing as they want to be. They are "amazing" to a small portion of people who purchase consoles.

Your average Joe would rather play For Honor and Ghost Recon, and buy DLC for them then to play Tales of Bersaria or Gravity Rush. Reviews from the dedicated gaming media has no impact on that

But growth is also important. Surely publishers are getting worried with the stagnant/declining sales? I mean even Ubisoft gave Assassin's Creed a rest with the yearly installments.
 
Probably not. The audience for games in Japan is only shrinking, leaving it to those studios to create more globally palatable hits.

Even then, I don't get the mentality of developers being threatened by the success of other territories. More quality games only push the medium forward, giving progress to all.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
But growth is also important. Surely publishers are getting worried with the stagnant/declining sales? I mean even Ubisoft gave Assassin's Creed a rest with the yearly installments.

I dont see what that has to do with Japan though.
 

Nev

Banned
If it means more Souls, Nioh and Zelda kind of games instead of cinematic press A for awesome or gameplay mediocrity covered in pretty graphix and story like TW3 or U4 then I'm all for it.

They seem to care more about actual gameplay, fortunately.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
I know that...this is why i am annoyed.

I am not looking for AAA western devs to ape Japanese devs, but less of the straighforward realistic machismo run and gun open world microtransactional check list by design would be nice.

But they never will, because as is always said, they feel no threat from other areas, not indies, not Japanese games.

The only thing that scares big AAA pubs is mobile and social gaming and how much money that makes



People like the franchise and encourage others to come out of their comfort zone and try it. And they get hyped at what they enjoy. That in no way says to anybody that they feel the franchise is big in the west.

I dont think that scares big publishers because they can easily make their way into that market just through licenses. It does scare fans of AAA games though.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Show me one instance where any GR fan acts as if it's a mainstream game.
I mean I literally did with that post tho. I'd rather not call out posters by name. :c

If it means more Souls, Nioh and Zelda kind of games instead of cinematic press A for awesome or gameplay mediocrity covered in pretty graphix and story like TW3 or U4 then I'm all for it.

They seem to care more about actual gameplay, fortunately.
Have you been asleep for the past four years and completely missed out on the current trends of the industry? Because games like UC4 are outliers and Witcher 3 certainly isn't press A for awesome. If anything W2 was way more like that due to how big a role animation priority and QTEs played during combat.
 
Haven't we blown through most of the top games this year?



The remaining games I can think of that will come out from Japan this year are;

Mario Oddysee
FFXIV Expansion
FFXV DLC
Kingdom Hearts 3 (?)

Tekken 7
FFXII HD
Persona 5
Dark Souls 3 final DLC
Shenmue 3 (lol)
Fire Emblem Echoes

On the niche side of things:
Danganronpa V3
The Silver Case HD PS4
God Wars
Yakuza Kiwami

So there's still plenty and more we don't know about yet as well, I'd imagine.
 

DNAbro

Member
Haven't we blown through most of the top games this year?



The remaining games I can think of that will come out from Japan this year are;

Mario Oddysee
FFXIV Expansion
FFXV DLC
Kingdom Hearts 3 (?)


It's been a legendary run the last 3 months. Incredible amount of fantastic games coming out. Not just by Japanese standards but any. It's incredible.



Will many people play Nier Automata or Gravity Rush? I don't feel most people gamers know what they are. And that's a shame.

Splatoon 2
Ni no Kuni 2
Dragon Quest XI (maybe)
Persona 5
Xenoblade Chronicles 2
DanganRonpa V3
 
You do know it's not a fight, right? Japanese devs love Western devs, and vice versa. They get inspired off each other. It's a two-way street.

I've only seen gamers try to frame some weird Japanese vs West gaming war.
 

Trago

Member
AAAaaaaaaannd which Japanese games are selling like western games?

FFXV?
Football Manager? lol Sega published.
Splatoon?

I love me some Japanese games, but western games are still the dominating sales force.
 

Ahasverus

Member
I find real exciting that my next 5 or so purchases are gonna be japanese. Western devs should not be wary, but aware, that innovation is key.
 

Nev

Banned
Have you been asleep for the past four years and completely missed out on the current trends of the industry? Because games like UC4 are outliers and Witcher 3 certainly isn't press A for awesome. If anything W2 was way more like that due to how big a role animation priority and QTEs played during combat.

It's just an expression. It means these games don't focus on gameplay first but story/presentation and the gameplay there is is not deep at all. That said, Uncharted 4 is literally "press button for awesome" in many parts. Except they invented a new version of it which is even better: "press button for lame", in which you press square repeteadly only to get hopelessly beaten by every person you fight until the next cutscene triggers.
 

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I am not looking for AAA western devs to ape Japanese devs, but less of the straighforward realistic machismo run and gun open world microtransactional check list by design would be nice.

That's like saying Japan only makes "survivaly games with swords"
 

Xe4

Banned
If it means more Souls, Nioh and Zelda kind of games instead of cinematic press A for awesome or gameplay mediocrity covered in pretty graphix and story like TW3 or U4 then I'm all for it.

They seem to care more about actual gameplay, fortunately.

You have no idea what you're talking about and I doubt you played either TW3 or U4, honestly.

Posts like these are super ignorant and about as accurate as me calling all Japanese games "anime simulators" or something.
 
Maybe after a generation of western games people want a change of pace.

This.

I recently organized my entire game collection. As I got to PS3, almost all of the games were Western. My PS4 collection is almost completely Japanese.
NES-PS2 were proportionally mixed between the two.
 
I think so

It's definitely clear that the best and most ambitious games this generation are coming from Japan.

I feel like western gaming is very close to being stuck in a rut. Everything is very similar and no one really wants to be ambitious. I had the same feelings with Japanese gaming last generation. Now the tables are starting to turn.
 

Ion Guru

Member
It's just been an incredible 3 months for Japanese games. I've been playing Nioh, Zelda: BotW, and Yakuza 0 and I've had more fun with these games than most releases from 2016. I feel that a lot of Western games and developers have been playing it safe with a lot of their titles and lacking character. Hopefully the resurgence in Japan helps to inspire developers in Japan and the west.
 

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
If it means more Souls, Nioh and Zelda kind of games instead of cinematic press A for awesome or gameplay mediocrity covered in pretty graphix and story like TW3 or U4 then I'm all for it.

They seem to care more about actual gameplay, fortunately.

Funny you say that considering that Persona 5 is out soon.
 

Zolo

Member
I feel like western gaming is very close to being stuck in a rut. Everything is very similar and no one really wants to be ambitious. I had the same feelings with Japanese gaming last generation. Now the tables are starting to turn.

I've kinda felt the same this gen which is why I spent a decent amount of this generation even going back to classic games on the PS2 and such. That said, I still find games I enjoy on PC like Underrail, Fallout 1.5, and really want to get Torment: Numenera sometime this summer.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
That's like saying Japan only makes "survivaly games with swords"

I'm talking about AAA games only. Including Japan against AAA industry, there's absolutely a disparity

Unless your saying AAA games are not super safe, which i would probably have to just laugh.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
No, you didn't literally do that.
With my first post.
Even fans were saying Garvity Rush 2 was a bomba in multiple threads.

Post launch tho from what I saw. I did see worry that it was gonna be a bomba tho. :/
It's just an expression. It means these games don't focus on gameplay first but story/presentation and the gameplay there is is not deep at all. That said, Uncharted 4 is literally "press button for awesome" in many parts. Except they invented a new version of it which is even better: "press button for lame", in which you press square repeteadly only to get hopelessly beaten by every person you fight until the next cutscene triggers.
That literally only happens with Nadine, otherwise, Drake is a killing machine in UC4. And yes, more and more western games have been focused moreso on gameplay than story and presentation. Games like The Order 1886 and UC4 are way farther and inbetween than games with large open levels if not open world with multiple ways to tackle objectives.
 
AAAaaaaaaannd which Japanese games are selling like western games?

FFXV?
Football Manager? lol Sega published.
Splatoon?

I love me some Japanese games, but western games are still the dominating sales force.

Football Manager is made by Sport Interactive which is a London based studio.
 
That literally only happens with Nadine, otherwise, Drake is a killing machine in UC4. And yes, more and more western games have been focused moreso on gameplay than story and presentation. Games like The Order 1886 and UC4 are way farther and inbetween than games with large open levels if not open world with multiple ways to tackle objectives.

You keep saying this yet the only examples you give are games that don't do gameplay well. I respect your dedication to your character, at the very least. Consistent across every thread.
 
Critically, yes. (Though we'll have to see how this year's big AAA megagames [Mass Effect, RDR2, new Assassin's Creed] do before we make any judgement).

Commercially, not right away. Considering Japanese games usually have lower budget than American games, if word of mouth buzz and critical acclaim build up enough, then they could definitely be competitive in terms of profit, if not raw sales. (Guarantee you that RDR2 will sell more than Zelda: BOTW, Nier: Automata, Persona 5, Yakuza 0, Ni-Oh, and Gravity Rush 2 combined).
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You keep saying this yet the only examples you give are games that don't do gameplay well. I respect your dedication to your character, at the very least. Consistent across every thread.
First, what is the fuck is the bolded supposed to mean? I'm not a character. Second:What are you talking about games that don't do gameplay well? Horizon:ZD plays well, For Honor plays well, Uncharted 4, while linear, plays well. People aren't literally buying these games just for graphics.
 

Zolo

Member
(Guarantee you that RDR2 will sell more than Zelda: BOTW, Nier: Automata, Persona 5, Yakuza 0, Ni-Oh, and Gravity Rush 2 combined).

Not Japanese, but I'd probably add in Andromeda to that. Not speaking badly of its sales and more of how much I expect RDR2 would sell.
 

Mik317

Member
will RDR2 have a online mode? I am sure it will be great and sell great but I never would think a western (lolololol) game would attract that much attention. Yeah Rockstar are masters at pushing their games...but are we sure it has the same appeal as GTA does?
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
will RDR2 have a online mode? I am sure it will be great and sell great but I never would think a western (lolololol) game would attract that much attention. Yeah Rockstar are masters at pushing their games...but are we sure it has the same appeal as GTA does?
Read Dead 1 sold 15 million copies....like, them getting another hit as BIG as GTAV would be telling, but tons of people played Red Dead.
 

bigjig

Member
I think comparing Japan to the West, Japan will never "win" again. Development budgets have gotten too large for a single country to ever compete against the entire rest of the world again.

When looking at on an individual country basis Japan still completely destroys all other countries though. I can't think of a single other country that even comes remotely close to matching Japan's output.

In terms of AAA Japan produces probably about as much or maybe a little more than other individual countries. Recent examples include, The Last Guardian, Resident Evil 7, Zelda BOTW, FFXV. Compared to the U.S. for example the last notable U.S. AAA release is probably last year's COD or Titanfall 2. (Horizon is Dutch, Mass Effect is Canada, Dishonored 2 is French, Halo Wars 2 is British, Dead Rising 4 is Canada, etc.). It was actually quite surprising to me how little game development is actually done in the U.S.

It's in terms of A or AA games that Japanese games completely destroy the competition. Is there any Western equivalent to recent games like Persona 5, Nioh, Nier Automata, Gravity Rush 2, Yakuza 0, etc.? I guess something like Torment Tides of Numera..? Even then that's leaning more indie to me.

In terms of indie games Japan definitely falls flat. Maybe it's because I don't really follow the indie games scene much, but I've only really heard of Downwell as a Japanese indie game. The indie game scene in Japan could definitely use a lot of improvement imo, but with an increase in indie game festivals maybe things will get better.

With this in I can see how, if someone only played AAA and indie games, and lumped every game not made in Japan into the "Western game" category I can see how people could downplay Japan's position in the industry. The fact remains though, that even today no single country even come close to going toe to toe with Japan in terms of game development.
 
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