Support NeoGAF

[1st Course]

I think comparing Japan to the West, Japan will never "win" again. Development budgets have gotten too large for a single country to ever compete against the entire rest of the world again.

When looking at on an individual country basis Japan still completely destroys all other countries though. I can't think of a single other country that even comes remotely close to matching Japan's output.

In terms of AAA Japan produces probably about as much or maybe a little more than other individual countries. Recent examples include, The Last Guardian, Resident Evil 7, Zelda BOTW, FFXV. Compared to the U.S. for example the last notable U.S. AAA release is probably last year's COD or Titanfall 2. (Horizon is Dutch, Mass Effect is Canada, Dishonored 2 is French, Halo Wars 2 is British, Dead Rising 4 is Canada, etc.). It was actually quite surprising to me how little game development is actually done in the U.S.

It's in terms of A or AA games that Japanese games completely destroy the competition. Is there any Western equivalent to recent games like Persona 5, Nioh, Nier Automata, Gravity Rush 2, Yakuza 0, etc.? I guess something like Torment Tides of Numera..? Even then that's leaning more indie to me.

In terms of indie games Japan definitely falls flat. Maybe it's because I don't really follow the indie games scene much, but I've only really heard of Downwell as a Japanese indie game. The indie game scene in Japan could definitely use a lot of improvement imo, but with an increase in indie game festivals maybe things will get better.

With this in I can see how, if someone only played AAA and indie games, and lumped every game not made in Japan into the "Western game" category I can see how people could downplay Japan's position in the industry. The fact remains though, that even today no single country even come close to going toe to toe with Japan in terms of game development.

Good write up.

 

[Messofanego]

I think comparing Japan to the West, Japan will never "win" again. Development budgets have gotten too large for a single country to ever compete against the entire rest of the world again.

When looking at on an individual country basis Japan still completely destroys all other countries though. I can't think of a single other country that even comes remotely close to matching Japan's output.

In terms of AAA Japan produces probably about as much or maybe a little more than other individual countries. Recent examples include, The Last Guardian, Resident Evil 7, Zelda BOTW, FFXV. Compared to the U.S. for example the last notable U.S. AAA release is probably last year's COD or Titanfall 2. (Horizon is Dutch, Mass Effect is Canada, Dishonored 2 is French, Halo Wars 2 is British, Dead Rising 4 is Canada, etc.). It was actually quite surprising to me how little game development is actually done in the U.S.

It's in terms of A or AA games that Japanese games completely destroy the competition. Is there any Western equivalent to recent games like Persona 5, Nioh, Nier Automata, Gravity Rush 2, Yakuza 0, etc.? I guess something like Torment Tides of Numera..? Even then that's leaning more indie to me.

In terms of indie games Japan definitely falls flat. Maybe it's because I don't really follow the indie games scene much, but I've only really heard of Downwell as a Japanese indie game. The indie game scene in Japan could definitely use a lot of improvement imo, but with an increase in indie game festivals maybe things will get better.

With this in I can see how, if someone only played AAA and indie games, and lumped every game not made in Japan into the "Western game" category I can see how people could downplay Japan's position in the industry. The fact remains though, that even today no single country even come close to going toe to toe with Japan in terms of game development.

European devs have been killing it for a while, it's great!

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I mean going by GAF you'd think Gravity Rush has a huge following and PS should adopt Kat as a mascot... :|

And going your posts you would think Ubisoft make GOTY quality games consistently...or ever.

 

[PdotMichael]

So when can I expect the next wave of good Japanese titles? 2 years?

 

[Zolo]

So when can I expect the next wave of good Japanese titles? 2 years?

Yep.

Spoiler

With 2-3 years of delays making it 5 years.

 

[13ruce]

Japan is king of gameplay with games so yes i can see why they are being quite succesfull again this gen.

 

[EGM1966]

Not really. The issue is down to franchise fatigue and too many Western developers rushing games to meet deadlines not down to Japanese games per se.

Ultimately I'd say this gen were mostly seeing the better games and newer games do better and flawed or rushed games suffer. Which is better for consumers.

There's room for the best of both West and East but the market finally seems to be tiring of miles franchises that have gone on too long and poor quality control.

The odd exception excepted of course.

 

[RulkezX]

GAF and other enthusiast sites like it have always had a special love for Japan completely at odds with the population actually buying games.

People seem to be happy to forgive a ton of jank yet we get 20 pages of shitty memes over ME:A animations.

The region is churning out some good games , but they're still only catering to (loud) niche audiences (notable exceptions aside).

 

[StrongBlackVine]

So when can I expect the next wave of good Japanese titles? 2 years?

Resident Evil 2 Remake
Next From Software project
Knack 2!!
Mario Odyssey

Should all be releasing within the next year or so.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

GAF and other enthusiast sites like it have always had a special love for Japan completely at odds with the population actually buying games.

People seem to be happy to forgive a ton of jank yet we get 20 pages of shitty memes over ME:A animations.

The region is churning out some good games , but they're still only catering to (loud) niche audiences (notable exceptions aside).

ME:A has a budget that dwarfs these mid-tier Japanese games. More should be expected from them tech wise.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

Resident Evil 2 Remake
Next From Software project
Knack 2!!
Mario Odyssey

Should all be releasing within the next year or so.

Western Devs should be wary of Knack 2, I hear its designed to directly compete with Shadows of Wardor

 

[RulkezX]

ME:A has a budget that dwarfs these mid-tier Japanese games. More should be expected from them tech wise.

Bullshit , it's moving goalposts to shoot a bias.

If shitty animations and datef visuals don't bother you in game A because it's budget is 10 million , you're lying to yourself if it bothers you in a game with 5x the budget.

GAF's demographic just skews more towards the niche ends of the taste scale , you see it daily with people trying to argue that games like Destiny were flops or by the complete lack of discussion around the most popular games currently played on Steam/ streaming on Twitchen but GR2 gets a mega thread

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Western Devs should be wary of Knack 2, I hear its designed to directly compete with Shadows of Wardor

The question was when was next batch of games that could be good is releasing. Not whether Western devs should be afraid of them.

 

[2Smashed4U]

Resident Evil 2 Remake
Next From Software project
Knack 2!!
Mario Odyssey

Should all be releasing within the next year or so.

So a game without a title and Knack? Are you serious?

ME:A has a budget that dwarfs these mid-tier Japanese games. More should be expected from them tech wise.

lmao

 

[Crossing Eden]

And going your posts you would think Ubisoft make GOTY quality games consistently...or ever.

Genuinely curious, what's the point of your post? Is it because GR2 is a playstation exclusive?

So a game without a title and Knack? Are you serious?

Western devs are super worried about Knack dude. /s

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Bullshit , it's moving goalposts to shoot a bias.

If shitty animations ams days visuals don't bother you in game A because it's budget is 10 million , you're lying to yourself if it bothers you in a game with 5x the budget.

Think what you want, but Mass Effect Andromeda will be judged against game like Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn, The Witcher 3 and FFXV. Not NieR Automata and Tales of Berseria when it comes to visuals.

For the record I have not complained about any animations or visuals in Mass Effect Andromeda. The game looks underwhelming enough without delving into the technical shortcomings.

 

[2Smashed4U]

Probably not. The audience for games in Japan is only shrinking, leaving it to those studios to create more globally palatable hits.

Even then, I don't get the mentality of developers being threatened by the success of other territories. More quality games only push the medium forward, giving progress to all.

This is another thing being overlook ITT. What do the two biggest Japanese games of the year (RE7 and Zelda) have in common? They've taken heavy influence from western games in their design.

If anything, Japanese games are bouncing back due to catering to more western tastes.

 

[faridmon]

Why should they?

Devs keep on producing games.Nothing will change.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Genuinely curious, what's the point of your post? Is it because GR2 is a playstation exclusive?

You are ragging on people for liking and hyping up niche Japanese games when you do it for every generic, average Ubisoft game. You have no room to talk about rose colored glasses is my point.

So a game without a title and Knack? Are you serious?



lmao

Obviously Knack was a joke, but I'm not joking about the From project. I could have mentioned Kingdom Hearts 3 and Final Fantasy VII Remake as well. Those will complete with big Western AAA games in the same genre.

 

[2Smashed4U]

will RDR2 have a online mode? I am sure it will be great and sell great but I never would think a western (lolololol) game would attract that much attention. Yeah Rockstar are masters at pushing their games...but are we sure it has the same appeal as GTA does?

Yes, Red Dead Redemption is a massively appealing game.

 

[Zakalwe]

When games like Horizon sell so well, no.

But western games are definitely starting to feel a little homogenised. Horizon is good, just overall very generic in terms of western game design. Yakuza 0 and Nier: Automata feel very refreshing after it.

 

[Crossing Eden]

You are ragging on people.

Yea let me stop you right there. I wasn't ragging at all. I was pointing it out, as were others, I gave a specific example.

 

[bigjig]

European devs have been killing it for a while, it's great!

Yep! European devs are doing great

 

[Sesha]

Maybe when Japan starts releasing multiple games each year across multiple franchises, from other companies than just Nintendo, that manage sell 5-10m plus units regularly. Until then, no.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Maybe someone should just start a "Japanese gaming sure is looking good these days" OT.

 

[Van Bur3n]

No, NeoGAF. Not at all. Both critically and commercially they have nothing to be wary about. No matter how much you adore your Japanese games.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Yea let me stop you right there. I wasn't ragging at all. I was pointing it out, as were others, I gave a specific example.

If you say so.

 

[Nirolak]

We're ultimately still discussing an industry where singular Western games are going to basically outsell all the Japanese titles released this year.

This is before we even get to a discussion on consistency or the relatively niche sales volume of all the games released this year except maybe Zelda.

 

[2Smashed4U]

This thread kind of puts a lot of the hate that big name, critically acclaimed western games get here in pretty good context for me, tbh.

 

[2Smashed4U]

You are ragging on people for liking and hyping up niche Japanese games when you do it for every generic, average Ubisoft game. You have no room to talk about rose colored glasses is my point.



Obviously Knack was a joke, but I'm not joking about the From project. I could have mentioned Kingdom Hearts 3 and Final Fantasy VII Remake as well. Those will complete with big Western AAA games in the same genre.

As of December, KH3 hadn't even been worked on yet. FF7 may come out late next year, with good luck.

I wouldnt start factoring those into the next wave of anything yet.

 

[MTC100]

Japanese gaming is just taking back its place on the throne.

True and it was about time.

. Capcom finally getting Resident Evil in a direction that isn't just Call of Duty with Zombies
. Nintendo rethinking Zelda and evolving the openworld genre to new heights
. Platinum Games reviving Nier, which finally gets the praise it deserves
. Atlus getting ready to launch the next GOTY contender next month
. Team Ninja getting back to what they do best with Nioh
. Sega bringing it on with Yakuza 0 that also seems to do very good nowadays

It's hard to miss the signs, Japan is back and stronger than ever, I am really happy for this to happen and truly wonder how Mass Effect Andromeda will fare in this battlefield of great games

 

[Ray Down]

There's no way RE2 remake is this year imao.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

As of December, KH3 hadn't even been worked on yet. FF7 may come out late next year, with good luck.

I wouldnt start factoring those into the next wave of anything yet.

Link? Because I'm pretty sure that is bullshit.

There's no way RE2 remake is this year imao.

I said within the next year (meaning 12 calendar months) which may still be tight, but not completely out of the question.

 

[rackham]

Aside from Gravity Rush and Soulsborne games I don't play Japanese games. I don't think Western devs have anything to worry about with the Western market.

 

[Nev]

That literally only happens with Nadine, otherwise, Drake is a killing machine in UC4.

No, it happens with that Gustavo guy in a 1v1 even before Nadine, and then in the fist fight versus his thugs with Rafe and Sully. Difference being that you win in that last one, but it's still literally mash square.

Uncharted 1 had melee combos, Uncharted 2 had 1v1s with common thugs, Uncharted 3 had Arkham style arenas and 1v1s with brutes. Uncharted 4 has automated "interactive" defeats vs Nadine and "press square for awesome" melee finishers. I can't see the alledged trend towards a more gameplay centered approach. The opposite indeed.

will RDR2 have a online mode? I am sure it will be great and sell great but I never would think a western (lolololol) game would attract that much attention. Yeah Rockstar are masters at pushing their games...but are we sure it has the same appeal as GTA does?

Come on now... 95+ metacritic and 5 million copies are absolutely guaranteed even with just a teaser trailer.

 

[Ray Down]

Aside from Gravity Rush and Soulsborne games I don't play Japanese games. I don't think Western devs have anything to worry about with the Western market.

Anyone who's think so are crazy.

 

[MrMephistoX]

Why should they be wary it's not a competition: we should all be happy AAA gaming still exists regardless of what part of the world it comes from.

 

[Zackat]

Western devs have nothing to worry about.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Anyone who's think so are crazy.

I don't think Western devs have anything to worry, but I am glad see to Japanese devs start to become relevant again even if only carving a out niche. There is some great variety in these recent games from the typical focus tested Western games we get every single.year. And I say that as someone that has strongly preferred Western games over Japanese games in general in recent times. It's not a competition.

 

[The Artisan]

We seem to get these threads every month now.

My response is still the same in that, Japan actually has a lot to prove.

huh. maybe they should be merged

 

[2Smashed4U]

True and it was about time.

. Capcom finally getting Resident Evil in a direction that isn't just Call of Duty with Zombies
. Nintendo rethinking Zelda and evolving the openworld genre to new heights
. Platinum Games reviving Nier, which finally gets the praise it deserves
. Atlus getting ready to launch the next GOTY contender next month
. Team Ninja getting back to what they do best with Nioh
. Sega bringing it on with Yakuza 0 that also seems to do very good nowadays

It's hard to miss the signs, Japan is back and stronger than ever, I am really happy for this to happen and truly wonder how Mass Effect Andromeda will fare in this battlefield of great games

Mass Effect will fare well by selling probably as many copies as all those games not named Zelda or Resident Evil will combined.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Mass Effect will fare well by selling probably as many copies as all those games not named Zelda or Resident Evil will combined.

You have a Kojima avatar, but seem to have an irrational dislike of non-Westernized games. His games are definitely more Western though so I guess it makes sense.

As far sales COD is garbage and sells the most almost every year. As long the devs are making enough money to fund future projects I'm content.

 

[Crossing Eden]

No, it happens with that Gustavo guy in a 1v1 even before Nadine, and then in the fist fight versus his thugs with Rafe and Sully. Difference being that you win in that last one, but it's still literally mash square.

Um no, you beat the shit out of the guy in the prison fight, and also while fighting with Rafe and Sam.

Uncharted 1 had melee combos, Uncharted 2 had 1v1s with common thugs, Uncharted 3 had Arkham style arenas and 1v1s with brutes. Uncharted 4 has automated "interactive" defeats vs Nadine and "press square for awesome" melee finishers. I can't see the alledged trend towards a more gameplay centered approach. The opposite indeed.

You know gameplay encomposes more than just melee combat right? In that regard UC4 has more depth than every other UC game. The melee combat was absolutely shit before 4.

 

[petran79]

True and it was about time.

. Capcom finally getting Resident Evil in a direction that isn't just Call of Duty with Zombies
. Nintendo rethinking Zelda and evolving the openworld genre to new heights
. Platinum Games reviving Nier, which finally gets the praise it deserves
. Atlus getting ready to launch the next GOTY contender next month
. Team Ninja getting back to what they do best with Nioh
. Sega bringing it on with Yakuza 0 that also seems to do very good nowadays

It's hard to miss the signs, Japan is back and stronger than ever, I am really happy for this to happen and truly wonder how Mass Effect Andromeda will fare in this battlefield of great games

Konami though....

 

[2Smashed4U]

You have a Kojima avatar, but seem to have an irrational dislike of non-Westernized games. His games are definitely more Western though so I guess it makes sense.

As far sales COD is garbage and sells the most almost every year. As long the devs are making enough money to fund future projects I'm content.

I don't have a dislike for anything, I'm speaking completely honestly here. Those games won't even put a dent in how the new Mass Effect does. I also think it's disingenuous to compare Mass Effect and COD just because they're both western made games, because that's really all that they have in common, but yknow.

 

[KJRS_1993]

And going your posts you would think Ubisoft make GOTY quality games consistently...or ever.

Wtf has that got to do with anything beyond making a childish dig?

You are ragging on people for liking and hyping up niche Japanese games when you do it for every generic, average Ubisoft game. You have no room to talk about rose colored glasses is my point.

Oh right, boils down to "you like something I don't" and not much more than that.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

I don't think Western devs have anything to worry, but I am glad see to Japanese devs start to become relevant again even if only carving a out niche. There is some great variety in these recent games from the typical focus tested Western games we get every single.year. And I say that as someone that has strongly preferred Western games over Japanese games in general in recent times. It's not a competition.

championing variety and criticizing focus testing, but you listed the next From Software game as one to look forward to?! you know thats going to function just like their previous games.

the big budget releases from western devs last year were crazy colourful and unique and I havent seen much like them in a long time with Overwatch and Doom, which id like to hear someone try to compare to Call of Duty, and I didnt find FFXV to be particularly inspired.
(Indie games its not even close but this seems specifically about the large studio releases)

None of the best AAA games were made in one years time, so of course you're going to have years where it seems like Japan was less relevant and vice versa, so judging the state of the industry by early 2017 releases that were being developed for years might not mean all that much.

 

[Dabi]

All developers should always be wary. It's called competition.

Makes for better games and even happier gamers.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I don't have a dislike for anything, I'm speaking completely honestly here. Those games won't even put a dent in how the new Mass Effect does. I also think it's disingenuous to compare Mass Effect and COD just because they're both western made games, because that's really all that they have in common, but yknow.

I wasn't really comparing Mass Effect to COD. That was just the easiest example of sales not equating to quality.

 

[dead souls]

I know GAF loves their Japanese games but in terms of sales this industry is dominated by western companies and I don't see that changing, probably ever.

I couldn't agree more and I don't even like or play 99% of western developed games while I adore Japanese ones.