When the question is if Bill Gates should be worried about people winning the lottery, then yea that seems like the an appropriate response.
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With the recent Japanese game resurgence, should western developers be wary?
- Thread starter 1st Course
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When the question is if Bill Gates should be worried about people winning the lottery, then yea that seems like the an appropriate response.
freeofgreed
Member
I don't see why they'd be wary. Most of them aren't going to touch the big Western games sales wise.
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
There is not really a recent japanese game resurgence like in the old days, because we havent seen a new Castlevania, Megaman, Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy Tactics, Suikoden, Zone of the Enders, ... in years.
1st Course
Member
I agree both Western and Japanese devs doing good is better for the whole industry. I just find the current trend of Japanese games doing better vs decline of AAA western games interesting.
I swear there's been other right at the tail end of 2016, where Duckroll was calling people out, lol.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Homogenized? Safe? I hope your talking about in terms of gameplay cuz we've been having a variety of diverse characters in AAA games.
Nioh and Yakuza 0 are selling well compared to what? By the way, FF XV got a lower metacritic score than XIII.
Resident Evil 7 is selling relatively well, but it's going to be less than 6 overall. Underperforming western titles are still making a lot of money and it seems you don't know how many more million copies they are able to sell.
It's hard to really say Yakuza 0 is a big success, because what were it's expectations?
To bomb like the other titles, or do slightly better.
Do we have any tangible way to even know it's sold a million over here or what it did.
Nioh is a success for Koei because for a small publisher it sell a million to retail is great. (It wasn't sold though was it).
To bomb like the other titles, or do slightly better.
Do we have any tangible way to even know it's sold a million over here or what it did.
Nioh is a success for Koei because for a small publisher it sell a million to retail is great. (It wasn't sold though was it).
Obliterator
Member
I'm starting to think GAF has a very skewed look on how these Japanese games are selling compared to their Western Counterparts.
Like For Honor and Ghost Recon are going to substantially outsell any of the Q1 Japanese releases other than Zelda. Horizon as well. Western games are far far larger than Japanese based ones.
Like For Honor and Ghost Recon are going to substantially outsell any of the Q1 Japanese releases other than Zelda. Horizon as well. Western games are far far larger than Japanese based ones.
We dont need literally all the same franchises as 10 to 20 years ago to have a resurgence in great Japanese titles on console
mortal
Gold Member
This is why we can't have nice things...
I honestly don't see the point in arbitrarily pitting regions against each other. It's possible to have both western and Japanese developers thrive, which is ideal for gamers as well as the gaming industry as a whole.
I don't see why western developers should be concerned. Especially when some of them could potentially play a recent Japanese title and be inspired by its game design or concepts, and try to inovate on those mechanics. Or a publisher could see the potential in localizing a Japanese title. Which is again, ideal for gaming as a whole. More relatively great games, more ideas being shared.
Hell, a good deal of Japanese titles owes a lot of recent success to western design philosophy.
I honestly don't see the point in arbitrarily pitting regions against each other. It's possible to have both western and Japanese developers thrive, which is ideal for gamers as well as the gaming industry as a whole.
I don't see why western developers should be concerned. Especially when some of them could potentially play a recent Japanese title and be inspired by its game design or concepts, and try to inovate on those mechanics. Or a publisher could see the potential in localizing a Japanese title. Which is again, ideal for gaming as a whole. More relatively great games, more ideas being shared.
Hell, a good deal of Japanese titles owes a lot of recent success to western design philosophy.
AHA-Lambda
Member
As great as these recent releases have all been, we first need to see if it translates to sales.
There are certain series here that always sell well after all, like Zelda and Resi
Stuff like Nier or Persona? Doubt it.
Western pubs won't panic unless it's causing them to lose money
There are certain series here that always sell well after all, like Zelda and Resi
Stuff like Nier or Persona? Doubt it.
Western pubs won't panic unless it's causing them to lose money
Cow Goes Moo
Member
starting huh
I'm not talking about the color of people's skin, or their gender. I'm talking about the actual games and their concepts and how out there they are. Yes, AAA gaming in general outside of a handful of franchises is in a rut i'd say. Full of microtransactions, checkbox gaming conventions and hardly anything new to be seen.
This is why A and double AA games coming out of Japan, western indies and other smaller games are very important to the industry at large i feel
Obliterator
Member
I was being nice. The majority of GAF members have no perspective on the actual financial side of the industry. Just trying to be polite about it.
For Honor is going to outsell Yakuza 0, Gravity Rush 2, Tales of Bersaria, and Nier Automata all combined. Easily.
If your talking about sales yeah, but if its only about sales that is coming from an unfair place to begin with, as there is an inherent cultural bias that limits "japanese games", especially Japanese ones that don't cost eleventy billion dollars or attached to a huge brand. Even Zelda which is the highest rated game ever apparently.
When you say GAF have no perspective, i think the OP is talking about the reception to the quality of Japanese titles making western devs take notice, not whether or not they think their DLC schemes are going to stop working
rochellepaws
Member
Bethesda, Bioware and Gearbox have definitely taken a few steps backwards this generation although Japanese studios underperformed last generation which probably had representation out of balance a bit.
Though really we should just be happy that Japanese games are so strong at the moment, Western original IPs had their moment a few years ago and I'm sure will return again.
Though really we should just be happy that Japanese games are so strong at the moment, Western original IPs had their moment a few years ago and I'm sure will return again.
dragonflys545
Member
Are they selling as much as GTA, Skyrim, COD or Destiny? If not western developers has nothing to worry about lololol.
KidGalactus
Member
Everything doesn't have to be 0 sum. There is room for both markets/sensibilities.
This is true, but it doesn't mean that For Honor is a better game than all of those combined.
Also, For Honor probably had a marketing budget many times bigger than all of those titles combined too.
I don't like comparing sales because not every game gets a big marketing budget and those vary a lot even by region. I have no doubt that For Honor sold well, deservedly so, but I would't be surprised if most units were sold in the Americas (where, I think, marketing was stronger) and much fewer units in Asia.
Quality wise, I am just happy that we are getting bombarded with great games.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I mean going by GAF you'd think Gravity Rush has a huge following and PS should adopt Kat as a mascot... :|
entremet
Member
GAF's origins were very Japanese centric in terms of the preferences of many of the original posters. A combination of the era, when Japanese developer were more relevant, and a self selection tendency.
I learned about more obscure Japanese stuff coming here--Ouendan on the DS, GodHand, Rhythm Tengoku, even Demon's Souls before it became a cult hit.
As Western dominance has become the norm, there is less of that, but I still find out more about quirky Japanese titles here than anyplace else.
the premise was that bill gates needs to look out because of your million dollars.
Obliterator
Member
The answer to all of this is no. The only thing that actually matters in this industry is sales / profit margins. Your games don't get published unless they make money. Western games make much, much, much more money than Japanese ones (in general).
Nier and Yakuza can be as amazing as they want to be. They are "amazing" to a small portion of people who purchase consoles.
Your average Joe would rather play For Honor and Ghost Recon, and buy DLC for them then to play Tales of Bersaria or Gravity Rush. Reviews from the dedicated gaming media has no impact on that
paragonpro
Banned
They should to an extent, the reason i like nier more than horizon (even though horizon was great) is because nier feels unique in its structure, music, and underlying themes. As wel as its gameplay. Horizon is very good but it feels like its adherent to some very over done western open world tropes
Cow Goes Moo
Member
but this thread has indicated sales that's why people are talking about it
going by the # of posts and unique posters in gravity rush threads
that wouldn't even be true as a joke
hohohohoho
i know. gaf is a japanese bubble for many posters
No, because the games are usually very different. Japanese games usually go with a lot of style and western games tend to go for more realism or shooters. Unless you have some Japanese dev trying to outdo Call of duty, assassin's creed, or far cry i just don't see the big deal. Even racing games don't have to worry since gt comes out maybe twice every console gen if were lucky, considering were a little over halfway through this gen updating gt sport is probably all they can do for the ps4.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
But you're missing something. Those games do make money. Yakuza is an annualized franchise that makes bank for Sega. It hasn't ever done well in the west, but it's huge in Asia where it's legitimately one of the very biggest console franchises.
You don't need to be making more money than the biggest Ubisoft game to be making money to fund more games.
That "uniqueness" only appeal to a niche audience however, that's the thing. When you are an enthusiast who play a lot of games and genre, you tend to appreciate something that deviate from the norm.
For the mass market, Nier is just a silly looking game with ridiculous character design that's not very appealing. Thus Ghost Recon wildlands and For Honor will curbstomp Nier in term of sales easily (and their budget are set accordingly so).
Obliterator
Member
I'm not missing anything. The amount of money Yakuza makes compared to any of Ubisoft's tentpoles is not even in the same stratosphere. I'm not saying Japanese games are failures or bad or shouldn't exist.
The question was should Western publishers be worried? The answer to that, is not only are they in no way worried, they are all posting record revenue and profit quarters. I think Western development is pretty fine.
That's not the way competition works in the video game space. The most important segment for Western developers is in the AAA space, and barely any Japanese games are in the same segment. Moreover, one game selling well usually doesn't have much effect on the sales of a different game. It's like saying that Western developers should be wary because the most popular game is League of Legends.
paragonpro
Banned
Oh i dont doubt it at all, i should re word my statement to say they should look at the japanese market and take creative inspiration from it, some how mix it with the western tropes tha sell well
Japanese games are their own niche .. and although it's refreshing to see the developers bringing more competition to the table, their influence is not as widespread compared to western developers.
Personally, I'm not really a fan of the games because they don't fit my interests.
Personally, I'm not really a fan of the games because they don't fit my interests.
That's harsh but it is true.
I guess that's just why western gaming has been becoming more stale. People will buy whatever is out there if its marketed so the pubs who are huge and bloated generally feel no need to do anything different than what they do.
I know for a lot of people they absolutely love that, but it never jived for me completely, even in the best years of the 7th gen for AAA western gaming. There was always something missing from the picture and as Japanese games become more prominent in quality on console again it tells me what that something was
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
No I meant the perception of how popular some people think Gravity Rush is.
The bolded is getting less and less true as this gen goes on, Western games have been getting less realistic, just looking at some examples of the most popular western games in this quarter
-Horizon Zero Dawn is a sci-fi game about shooting robot dinosaurs with arrows
-For Honor is a fighting game about Samurais fighting Knights and Vikings
-ME:A is purely a sci-fi exploration RPG shooter with sci fi magical abilities
The main difference is that developers focus a lot more on believability and making sure that things make sense in context. Hell, I'd say the greatest thing about Zelda is that Nintendo took that same exact mindset and went full ham with it by making sure that nearly EVERY aspect of the game has a believable reaction to the player's actions in a way that makes sense, which is partly inspired by the game design of many western titles like Far Cry.
Lol this.
Dead by Daylight a game that had a 1 page OT made more money I'm sure than both Gravuty Rush games combined. At least most certainly 2.
Obliterator
Member
I actually love Japanese games, I'm not trying to be rude or mean about it. I think its awesome we are seeing a resurgence out of Japanese developers and I really hope it continues. If the thread was "Are we seeing Japanese development turn around from last gen and see better success?" I'd be in here praising it, as that is the direction it looks things are going.
But the idea any of the big dogs in the Western space, Ubi, Activision, EA, 2K etc. feel any threat whatsoever from these games......well I mean the answer to that statement is not in any way shape or form.
And I don't think I've ever seen a Minecraft OT on here.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
There was one ages ago. Probably got moved to the community graveyard.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I really don't know what "different" you are asking for.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
With the best mostly going to Open and not that great games for me. Japan can't come soon enough. Let's just hope they don't go the open route either.
So many games I'm seeing are open and just don't look very interesting for me. I do not get very excited at the thought of another Far Cry, Horizon , Zelda etc honestly
I do get excited when I see something like Nier, Yakuza , Soma and even Detroit.
So many games I'm seeing are open and just don't look very interesting for me. I do not get very excited at the thought of another Far Cry, Horizon , Zelda etc honestly
I do get excited when I see something like Nier, Yakuza , Soma and even Detroit.