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[Crimson_Echidna]

I think we'll see this happening more and more as it's becoming basically a necessity to have a superteam to win it all. Sure if you are happy with just winning some games in the regular season that nobody really cares about, you don't need that.

The warriors are a lock for the next championship with the teams as they are now unless another superteam is created.

The stars literally aligned at the perfect time for the Warriors. Unless you get players who both breakout the way Steph, Klay, and Draymond and are underpaid compared to their actual value, you're never going to see a Super Team like that again with the way the rules currently are.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Like I said, it was an anomaly. Teams will literally not be able to do what the Warriors did without a million things, most of which are out of their hands, going perfectly right. It required an unprecedented jump in the salary cap, it required drafting Draymond in the second round and it required Steph to sign a below market deal because of his injury history and then turn into one of the best point guards ever.

I mean you had the Heat not that long ago. All it takes is for some players to collude and take less than their market value.

But for the commissioner the Lakers would have added Chris Paul.

 

[Neece]

I wonder what the impact for the fun factor would be if they got rid of conferences for the playoff brackets.

Have each division winner make the playoffs, then after that it's best record.

Seems like there would be better matchups in the playoffs, which would increase the likelihood of upsets, and maybe even match the Warriors and Cavs earlier than the finals.

It wouldn't help with bad teams being bad but maybe it could make it feel like more teams have a shot at getting to the finals since in any given year a new team could be the favorite on one side of the bracket. Each year would bring different matchups for the race to the finals.

 

[Ronin Ray]

There's a salary cap, but there's also a luxury tax limit. It doesn't really matter when you have a bunch of teams that can't even get near the salary cap and then you have teams like the Lakers that have no problem paying whatever luxury tax.

And the Lakers are competitive ? And what team can't get near the salary cap ? What sport are you watching? It took insanely rare circumstances for Durant to be able to fit on the Warriors due to the cap going up really high in one year and Steph curry being on a cheap contract due to the injuries he had early in his career . Plus the fact they drafted and built that team. Eliminate Max contracts and super star players will spread out more. Instead of the insane idiotic notion to just get rid of teams with no justification

 

[LyleLanley]

I mean you had the Heat not that long ago. All it takes is for some players to collude and take less than their market value.

But for the commissioner the Lakers would have added Chris Paul.

And the Heat were far from unstoppable. I also refuse to talk about that goddamn Lakers trade, "Basketball Reasons", is the most misunderstood phrase in sports.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

And the Lakers are competitive ? And what team can't get near the salary cap ? What sport are you watching? It took insanely rare circumstances for Durant to be able to fit on the Warriors due to the cap going up really high in one year and Steph curry being on a cheap contract due to the injuries he had early in his career . Plus the fact they drafted and built that team. Eliminate Max contracts and super star players will spread out more. Instead of the insane idiotic notion to just get rid of teams with no justification

The gap between the highest salaried team and the lowest is like double you know that right? I mean sure maybe they could if they wanted to, I dunno if it's a matter of the owners being extremely cheap or that the financials just not working out, but what are you gonna do? Have the NBA force every team to max out their cap?

 

[Tubobutts]

I mean you had the Heat not that long ago. All it takes is for some players to collude and take less than their market value.

But for the commissioner the Lakers would have added Chris Paul.

The Warriors drafted three of their four all stars and were able to add Durant because they had an MVP level player on a ~$11 million a year contract due to early career injury concerns. That's very different than the Heat.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

The Warriors drafted three of their four all stars and were able to add Durant because they had an MVP level player on a ~$11 million a year contract due to early career injury concerns. That's very different than the Heat.

I know that. My whole point is that the way the Warriors did it is not the only way to create a superteam.

 

[Ronin Ray]

The gap between the highest salaried team and the lowest is like double you know that right?

Due to and only the luxury tax which I don't think you know how it works. All NBA teams spend to there cap limit which why the NBA has so many horrible contracts. The Spurs have never gone high into the luxury tax and look what they've done the last 20 years.

 

[Earthbound64]

I never understand the "Parody is a problem" thing.

Come join us in Parody Thread Urges

 

[Ronin Ray]

I know that. My whole point is that the way the Warriors did it is not the only way to create a superteam.

What other super team has there been? The heat that only won 2 Champions and lost 2 . They lost to the Spurs and the Mavericks with one superstar.

 

[Dr.Acula]

I like the idea of a "top-3" cap. So if you get a top-3 pick you're locked out of a top-3 pick for the next x number of years. Seems reasonable.

 

[Earthbound64]

Not really in baseball. It's much easier to get better than any of the other sports and there's more parity. Ex the Yankees and Redbox don't always win. You have the giants and cardinals and dodgers, phillies and cubs etc that can all be good.

That's not a good example, when the following are the 2017 Opening Day payrolls:
Los Angeles Dodgers — $225,553,087
Detroit — 199,750,600
N.Y. Yankees — 195,282,058
San Francisco — 181,514,431
Boston — 178,818,052
Chicago Cubs — 176,872,312
Texas — 173,114,730

That is, to be specific, you say "the Yankees and Redox don't always win. You have the giants and cardinals and dodgers, phillies and cubs etc that can all be good" when the Dodgers have a higher payroll than anyone, and the Dodgers, Tigers, Yankees, and Giants all have higher payrolls than the Red Sox.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

That's not a good example, when the following are the 2017 Opening Day payrolls:
Los Angeles Dodgers — $225,553,087
Detroit — 199,750,600
N.Y. Yankees — 195,282,058
San Francisco — 181,514,431
Boston — 178,818,052
Chicago Cubs — 176,872,312
Texas — 173,114,730

That is, to be specific, you say "the Yankees and Redox don't always win. You have the giants and cardinals and dodgers, phillies and cubs etc that can all be good" when the Dodgers have a higher payroll than anyone, and the Dodgers, Tigers, Yankees, and Giants all have higher payrolls than the Red Sox.

Tigers and Giants have garbage records this season though.

 

[Earthbound64]

Tigers and Giants have garbage records this season though.

Indeed they do.

I wasn't saying that "Payroll guarantees success."
I was saying that, in discussing parity, saying "Teams other than the Yankees and Red Sox can win" is silly when those aren't the teams at the top of the payrolls lists, and that many of the teams mentioned as counter-examples have comparable/higher payrolls.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

The Eastern conference is complete shit and has been for 20 years now with NO end in sight


The ONLY way to make the NBA regular season, hell even most of the playoffs, watchable against would be to just do a 1-16 seed and be done with it

 

[LyleLanley]

The Eastern conference is complete shit and has been for 20 years now with NO end in sight


The ONLY way to make the NBA regular season, hell even most of the playoffs, watchable against would be to just do a 1-16 seed and be done with it

What was unwatchable about the regular season last year?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Indeed they do.

I wasn't saying that "Payroll guarantees success."
I was saying that, in discussing parity, saying "Teams other than the Yankees and Red Sox can win" is silly when those aren't the teams at the top of the payrolls lists, and that many of the teams mentioned as counter-examples have comparable/higher payrolls.

I think we've had a couple threads in the past here that have shown baseball has had far more teams make the playoffs, WS, and win the title over the past two+ decades compared to other US pro leagues, and that payrolls ultimately weren't the main factor. I'd rather not recycle those arguments again, and I'm currently on mobile heading out and can't easily dig up the threads. But it's been discussed.

 

[Chindogg]

If they want to fix parity issues then perhaps they should make some rules adjustments in regards to defense to allow for actual 4s and 5s to be relevant again.

The lack of stronger defense and push for guard and shooting forward play has significantly hurt the game in the last few years.

 

[flyover]

Get rid of the draft. Create a real minor league. Let players sign with whoever they want out of high school.

Honestly, as much fun as the draft is (and I love it), this is how it should work.

 

[Bernbaum]

This is the best

 

[Bread]

If they want to fix parity issues then perhaps they should make some rules adjustments in regards to defense to allow for actual 4s and 5s to be relevant again.

The lack of stronger defense and push for guard and shooting forward play has significantly hurt the game in the last few years.

The game is extremely popular right now, it's not hurting at all. Besides no one wants to watch guys working the post, they want to see guards dunking and shooting deep threes.

 

[Earthbound64]

I think we've had a couple threads in the past here that have shown baseball has had far more teams make the playoffs, WS, and win the title over the past two+ decades compared to other US pro leagues, and that payrolls ultimately weren't the main factor. I'd rather not recycle those arguments again, and I'm currently on mobile heading out and can't easily dig up the threads. But it's been discussed.

I don't think we're saying very different things.

Ultimately my real point was that the poster saying "Ex the Yankees and Redbox don't always win. You have the giants and cardinals and dodgers, phillies and cubs etc that can all be good." was silly. And that pointing out the payrolls was just one avenue of pointing out why it was silly.
I'll leave it to that poster to explain why they grouped "the Yankees and Redbox[sic]" in one grouping and "giants and cardinals and dodgers, phillies and cubs" into another group.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

What was unwatchable about the regular season last year?

Let's see, there was absolutely ZERO doubt the Cavs were going to the finals and steamrolled through the entire eastern playoffs

THere was also close to zero doubt the Warriors would win the title, only the Spurs had a shot and Leonard got hurt during GM1 of the WCF while up 23pts, then predictably got crushed after the best player in the series is taken out

This year I have no doubt it's another Warriors/Cavs finals, maybe a small chance Boston wins in the ECF. The east, half the NBA is basically unwatchable from a competitive standpoint because besides the Cavs there is no shot in hell for any of them to win the title. Jimmy Bulter and Paul George going to the West was just laughable and pathetic

 

[LyleLanley]

The game is extremely popular right now, it's not hurting at all. Besides no one wants to watch guys working the post, they want to see guards dunking and shooting deep threes.

The people want to watch Jah work his magic in the post.

Let's see, there was absolutely ZERO doubt the Cavs were going to the finals and steamrolled through the entire eastern playoffs

THere was also close to zero doubt the Warriors would win the title, only the Spurs had a shot and Leonard got hurt during GM1 of the WCF while up 23pts, then predictably got crushed after the best player in the series is taken out

This year I have no doubt it's another Warriors/Cavs finals, maybe a small chance Boston wins in the ECF. The east, half the NBA is basically unwatchable from a competitive standpoint because besides the Cavs there is no shot in hell for any of them to win the title. Jimmy Bulter and Paul George going to the West was just laughable and pathetic

That's why I said the regular season. I legitimately think it was one of the best in years.

 

[Bread]

Let’s see, there was absolutely ZERO doubt the Cavs were going to the finals and steamrolled through the entire eastern playoffs

THere was also close to zero doubt the Warriors would win the title, only the Spurs had a shot and Leonard got hurt during GM1 of the WCF while up 23pts, then predictably got crushed after the best player in the series is taken out

This year I have no doubt it’s another Warriors/Cavs finals, maybe a small chance Boston wins in the ECF. The east, half the NBA is basically unwatchable from a competitive standpoint because besides the Cavs there is no shot in hell for any of them to win the title. Jimmy Bulter and Paul George going to the West was just laughable and pathetic

You know you can just watch games right? Like, basketball is fun. It's fun to watch. Why are you constantly thinking about the finals when there are 82 games in the regular season.

 

[sir_kevith]

What was unwatchable about the regular season last year?

Dude is crazy, the regular season was fun as hell. First round of the playoffs was fun too.

 

[Falchion]

I'm down for anything that makes the draft crazier.

 

[Jarate]

They need to incentivize teams being mediocre rather then punish teams for being bad.

There's no reason to be average in the NBA, hell, being mediocre is basically a death sentence for a team.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

They need to incentivize teams being mediocre rather then punish teams for being bad.

There's no reason to be average in the NBA, hell, being mediocre is basically a death sentence for a team.

This is why I think giving all non-playoff teams the same lottery odds makes sense. There should be no advantage for winning 15 games as opposed to 38.

 

[Boogs31]

I don't get why the lottery needs reformed at all. The draft lottery is a fun event. The worst team still only has a 25% chance of getting the top pick. And to those that are claiming it would prevent tanking, how do you explain why the Nets rested their players down the stretch despite not owning their own pick? Teams will rest players at the end of the year if they're out of the playoff race, because there's no upside to risking players getting hurt when the games are meaningless. Lottery reform isn't going to change that.

And to all the people that hated what Sam Hinkie did, all I can say is that it worked. He took a franchise with no future, and built a roster that has the potential to win championships. Would Philadelphia fans trade the current core they have now for slightly more competent teams for the last 4 years and no hope at a title?

I get that tanking teams aren't fun to watch. But there's a simple solution, don't watch them. There will always be great, good, average, and bad teams in the NBA, fans can watch whatever teams/games they want.

 

[LionPride]

Unlike last year's NFL season where nothing mattered in the regular season, like at all

The NBA's regular season what phenomenal scoring bursts, phenomenal stat lines, great games from October until May, fun all around, seeing players on bad teams show out, seeing players come into their own, see the growth of people like Giannis, KAT, Porzingas, and Jokic as well as Gobert and others.

Last year's NBA season was great, we all knew the end result and still enjoyed the regular season

 

[Chindogg]

The game is extremely popular right now, it's not hurting at all. Besides no one wants to watch guys working the post, they want to see guards dunking and shooting deep threes.

It's popular but overall the game itself is hurt because of the lack of talent across the league that can do those two things.

You know you can just watch games right? Like, basketball is fun. It's fun to watch. Why are you constantly thinking about the finals when there are 82 games in the regular season.

Meh I miss defense being played. Now it's basically a glorified all star game with guards and shooting forwards.

 

[Kevtones]

Terrible idea.



Fix superteam shit. Classify 30 players as A-Class. No team can have more than two A-Class players on their roster. Spread the wealth.

 

[LionPride]

It's popular but overall the game itself is hurt because of the lack of talent across the league that can do those two things.



Meh I miss defense being played. Now it's basically a glorified all star game with guards and shooting forwards.

Jesus Christ

 

[natjjohn]

That's why I said the regular season. I legitimately think it was one of the best in years.

I just don't see it that way. The games were meaningless. When the seasons outcome is a foregone conclusion, hard to get excited for what amounts to filler until the inevitable.

 

[El Topo]

This is why I think giving all non-playoff teams the same lottery odds makes sense.

But your system doesn't incentivize teams to be mediocre. Why throw out the draft percentage system completely instead of addressing its flaws?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Terrible idea.



Fix superteam shit. Classify 30 players as A-Class. No team can have more than two A-Class players on their roster. Spread the wealth.

lets punish teams for drafting well!

But your system doesn't incentivize teams to be mediocre.

It takes out the incentive for being bottom of the barrel terrible. It removes "the process", where a team's goal is to get as awful as possible. The current system is one where the potential transcendent starts go to god awful franchises that waste 2-3 years of their prime just trying to get to a respectable level. What if a team that won 40 games and just missed the playoffs had just as much chance at landing one of those transcendent stars? It would probably help level out the NBA "middle class" that are currently stuck in this limbo between the super teams and the garbage tank teams.

 

[Kevtones]

Last year's playoffs were the worst in league history. They were predictable, unbalanced and boring. People saying 'well the regular season was great' are either delusional or have reaaaally low standards. Or both.

 

[Kevtones]

lets punish teams for drafting well!

Teams can keep 3 if drafted then? It's tough to get more than 3/30 players in the league. Fixes the Warriors. Fixes the Cavs (Kevin Love was top 30 when traded for).


The West is a dramatically better watch without KD to Golden State last year.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Teams can keep 3 if drafted then? It's tough to get more than 3/30 players in the league. Fixes the Warriors. Fixes the Cavs (Kevin Love was top 30 when traded for).


The West is a dramatically better watch without KD to Golden State last year.

Why should free agency be stifled? Let players go wherever they want to go. Putting the onus on the players to fix the league's parity problems is stupid and only serves to mask the real problems (i.e. shitty owners and GMs).

 

[El Topo]

It takes out the incentive for being bottom of the barrel terrible. It removes "the process", where a team's goal is to get as awful as possible.

You remove the intention to tank at the cost of everything else.

What if a team that won 40 games and just missed the playoffs had just as much chance at landing one of those transcendent stars? It would probably help level out the NBA "middle class" that are currently stuck in this limbo between the super teams and the garbage tank teams.

Again, if all you want to do is remove the intention to tank there are many other ways. If you want to support teams that are stuck in limbo, you could always add all sorts of modifications to the draft system.
You're not going to fix the problems by making things as simple as possible.

Edit:
It should be said, of course, that at the end of the day, it all depends on what you want to accomplish. There are various ways to address teams being bad, not just the draft. Apologies if I came off aggressive.

 

[Kevtones]

Why should free agency be stifled? Let players go wherever they want to go. Putting the onus on the players to fix the league's parity problems is stupid and only serves to mask the real problems (i.e. shitty owners and GMs).

Stifle superteams, not free agency. In what way did KD to GSW make the league more enticing? The entire 2016-2017 season felt perfunctory.

Classifying talent or finding ways to divvy out the talent better enhances the chances of every team (big market or small).

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Stifle superteams, not free agency. In what way did KD to GSW make the league more enticing? The entire 2016-2017 season felt perfunctory.

Classifying talent or finding ways to divvy out the talent better enhances the chances of every team (big market or small).

KD going to GSW, like LeBron taking his talents to south beach before that, was a bonanza for the league. You had the NBA topping the news in the offseason. The NBA is effectively an 11-12 month sport.

And from a purely principle standpoint: If the Warriors have the money, and Kevin Durant wants to go to Golden St., I don't want the league telling them they can't. It's called free agency for a reason. Guys should be able to go wherever they want. Maybe if the league could better regulate the teams that decide to tank (by choice, like Philly, or simply by incompetence, like NY or Brooklyn) it would give these guys better options to go play for. Or hell, if you really want to "stifle" super teams, get rid of the max contracts.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Wolves have never moved up in the draft through the lottery.
The Orlando Magic did leapfrog us two years in a row to snag Webber and Shaq, though.

 

[geestack]

Meh I miss defense being played. Now it's basically a glorified all star game with guards and shooting forwards.

people who say this have no idea how hard nba defense is and clearly don't watch games.

 

[Kevtones]

KD going to GSW, like LeBron taking his talents to south beach before that, was a bonanza for the league. You had the NBA topping the news in the offseason. The NBA is effectively an 11-12 month sport.

And from a purely principle standpoint: If the Warriors have the money, and Kevin Durant wants to go to Golden St., I don't want the league telling them they can't. It's called free agency for a reason. Guys should be able to go wherever they want. Maybe if the league could better regulate the teams that decide to tank (by choice, like Philly, or simply by incompetence, like NY or Brooklyn) it would give these guys better options to go play for.

Didn't David Stern or the owners veto Chris Paul to the Lakers?

Anyway, I feel superteams have disrupted the league's competitive balance far more than tank commanders. Philly has really been the only example of it while general incompetency has led teams like the Knicks into purgatory. What's stopping Paul George and Lebron from taking the Vet Min next free agency and joining the Warriors? Nothing.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Didn't David Stern or the owners veto Chris Paul to the Lakers?

Anyway, I feel superteams have disrupted the league's competitive balance far more than tank commanders. Philly has really been the only example of it while general incompetency has led teams like the Knicks into purgatory. What's stopping Paul George and Lebron from taking the Vet Min next free agency and joining the Warriors? Nothing.

Chris Paul to the Lakers being veto'd was because the league, at the time, collectively owned the Hornets. So it made a little bit of sense for owners like Dan Gilbert and Mark Cuban (who, effectively, were 1/30th owners of the Hornets at the time) to say they don't approve of the trade. It was a stupid, one-off situation, and not something you can apply to future transactions.

To your second point, nothing is stopping Paul George or LeBron from taking whatever money they want, and nothing should. You want the NBA to step in and tell LeBron he needs to take more money? Why would they care? The NBA is run by the owners, why would they want players to take MORE money? What is really causing the issues you are describing are max contracts. The league has already artificially put a ceiling on how much players can make. IF they removed this, and all of a sudden KD had to decide between taking a hair less than the max from GSW, or taking $50 million a year from LA or Philly, that makes the decision a little more difficult, wouldn't you say? As it stands now, the league has basically said that LeBron James and Paul George are essentially worth the same, which is ridiculous. IF all teams are offering the exact same amount of money, why would a player choose to go to a mediocre or outright bad team over a contender?

 

[Chindogg]

people who say this have no idea how hard nba defense is and clearly don't watch games.

Yeah it's absurdly hard when you're actively punished for playing defense. Bring hand checking back into the game and see how many shots Steph Curry hits a game.

 

[LionPride]

Yes, handchecking will stop Steph from dropping 24 on you

Most definitely

And what fucking competitive balance in the league?