Support NeoGAF

[vumpler]

So this thread got me wondering what this game was. With this big of an uproar I figured the game couldn't be half bad.

So I'm in the middle of class playing it today and this guy behind me busts out laughing when my bridge started to fall. I thought he was just being a dick, but then...

 

[Haunted]

So this thread got me wondering what this game was. With this big of an uproar I figured the game couldn't be half bad.

So I'm in the middle of class playing it today and this guy behind me busts out laughing when my bridge started to fall. I thought he was just being a dick, but then...

I see what you did there.

Also: :lol

 

[Fuu]

So I'm in the middle of class playing it today and this guy behind me busts out laughing when my bridge started to fall. I thought he was just being a dick, but then...

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll161/smapstar/GooWang.gif

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Threi]

:lol :lol :lol

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

World of goo indeed. :lol :lol

 

[brassica]

:lol

Now you guys made me want to try that game, seems awesome.

 

[vumpler]

:lol

Now you guys made me want to try that game, seems awesome.

I'm enjoying it thus far. I would have never tried it if it wasn't for this thread.

 

[Fuu]

I'm enjoying it thus far. I would have never tried it if it wasn't for this thread.

I believe your gif will actually help sales. Post it in the official thread too! :lol

 

[diffusionx]

Let's say one million people played this game, of which 900k didn't pay for it and 100k did. Now according to their own numbers with anti-piracy measures they could only get 1 out of 1000 people who pirated the game to actually buy it. In this case that would be 900 people and that's less then 1% of the actual sales of the game.

Using your made up figures, those 900 copies equal $18,000 to indie developers guys that are using this game to put food in their mouths, not buy Ferraris or whatever.

This stuff depresses me. 2D Boy isn't a big publisher, 2D Boy didn't encrust their game with DRM, 2D Boy didn't overprice the game, all they did was make a sterling, original, beautiful game and released it cheap on the internet without DRM. If World of Goo can't escape the piracy thing, nothing can, and all the arguments pirates use to justify their behavior is a load of horse shit (not that most of us didn't already know that).

 

[TunaLover]

This is along Wii and PC versions? I could understand PC being very piracy friendly, if Wii is in the equation it's veryy worrisome

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

So this thread got me wondering what this game was. With this big of an uproar I figured the game couldn't be half bad.

So I'm in the middle of class playing it today and this guy behind me busts out laughing when my bridge started to fall. I thought he was just being a dick, but then...

:lol

 

[LutherT17]

Using your made up figures, those 900 copies equal $18,000 to indie developers guys that are using this game to put food in their mouths, not buy Ferraris or whatever.

And by the same maths 100,000 copies x $20 (if thats the price) = $2Million revenue. Thats a lot of food! I'd be at least a little tempted to buy a Ferrari.

I just tried to buy it but:

"This Domain (2dboy.com) Has Been Disabled"

Odd.

 

[Fuu]

And by the same maths 100,000 copies x $20 (if thats the price) = $2Million revenue. Thats a lot of food! I'd be at least a little tempted to buy a Ferrari.

I just tried to buy it but:

"This Domain (2dboy.com) Has Been Disabled"

Odd.

It's working for me. There's this message in the latest post there:

we’re back, almost
Tuesday, November 18th, 2008 from Kyle Gabler

Hi everyone, we’re in the process of moving to a new server, so some parts of this site are still gradually coming back online. Our old web hosting provider (bluehost, avoid them!) canceled our account with no warning for using too much of our “unlimited” resources. If you emailed or tried to contact us in the last 24 hours, you might want to try again. The good news is, there’s actually a level about crappy web hosts in World of Goo!

 

[BTMash]

I had been meaning to try out the game but thought it was only out for the Wii (and didn't really feel like buying the game on a whim) - it was then mentioned at my workplace that its available on PC and OSX so I tried out the mac version, got hooked by its awesomeness, and bought it for the wii now. Such a shame that the piracy rate is so high

 

[Smiling Bandit]

Using your made up figures, those 900 copies equal $18,000 to indie developers guys that are using this game to put food in their mouths, not buy Ferraris or whatever.

This stuff depresses me. 2D Boy isn't a big publisher, 2D Boy didn't encrust their game with DRM, 2D Boy didn't overprice the game, all they did was make a sterling, original, beautiful game and released it cheap on the internet without DRM. If World of Goo can't escape the piracy thing, nothing can, and all the arguments pirates use to justify their behavior is a load of horse shit (not that most of us didn't already know that).

The numbers scale to any amount. If your profitability depends on 1% of your income something is wrong and by your numbers they already made $2,000,000. They even admit to this scale and therefore I don't understand what the actual complain is about?
Aren't they basically saying "We wish more people would like our game"?

 

[dalin80]

ah..

friends told me it was just a shareware game.

oops.

 

[vumpler]

And by the same maths 100,000 copies x $20 (if thats the price) = $2Million revenue. Thats a lot of food! I'd be at least a little tempted to buy a Ferrari.

I just tried to buy it but:

"This Domain (2dboy.com) Has Been Disabled"

Odd.

http://2dboy.com/

works

 

[Xizer]

I've seen some of the spoiled bastards on this forum with their six HDTVs and thousands of anime DVDs in those little "show your gaming setup" brag threads.

Ever think some people aren't so lucky as to be born to a trust fund daddy?

Most pirates do it because they can't afford to spend thousands of dollars on games every month.

 

[Proven]

I've seen some of the spoiled bastards on this forum with their six HDTVs and thousands of anime DVDs in those little "show your gaming setup" brag threads.

Ever think some people aren't so lucky as to be born to a trust fund daddy?

Most pirates do it because they can't afford to spend thousands of dollars on games every month.

But you don't have to buy all of them! And then people end up pirating all of them! Why don't you rent most of them!?

At the end of the day, between gaming PCs, and $300-$400 systems, and $50-$60 games, why can't people just leave hardcore gaming as a luxury item?

 

[Xizer]

But you don't have to buy all of them! And then people end up pirating all of them! Why don't you rent most of them!?

At the end of the day, between gaming PCs, and $300-$400 systems, and $50-$60 games, why can't people just leave hardcore gaming as a luxury item?

Renting doesn't help the developers either. It just helps a video rental corporation.

And it is exactly what you stated: After spending $1,000 on PC hardware and $400 on a video game console, on top of having to buy a $1,000 HDTV, having to pay $60 per game is beyond ridiculous.

Somehow I doubt most pirates would end up paying for more than 1% of what they've got if they couldn't pirate it.

 

[Htown]

I've seen some of the spoiled bastards on this forum with their six HDTVs and thousands of anime DVDs in those little "show your gaming setup" brag threads.

Ever think some people aren't so lucky as to be born to a trust fund daddy?

Most pirates do it because they can't afford to spend thousands of dollars on games every month.

You don't get to steal something just because you can't afford it.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

I've seen some of the spoiled bastards on this forum with their six HDTVs and thousands of anime DVDs in those little "show your gaming setup" brag threads.

Ever think some people aren't so lucky as to be born to a trust fund daddy?

Most pirates do it because they can't afford to spend thousands of dollars on games every month.

Can't afford it? Don't get it!

I can't afford a Viper. Doesn't mean I should steal one.

 

[batbeg]

I've seen some of the spoiled bastards on this forum with their six HDTVs and thousands of anime DVDs in those little "show your gaming setup" brag threads.

Ever think some people aren't so lucky as to be born to a trust fund daddy?

Most pirates do it because they can't afford to spend thousands of dollars on games every month.

Yeah man, preach it! I mean, that's perfect reasoning right there! "I wouldn't be able to afford it anyway, so I may as well steal it!"

Shit, I'm gonna go get me a ferrari!

 

[Mrbob]

I played the demo and thought it was great.

I will get the game eventually on steam. Waiting for a weekend sale or price drop. I am a bit miffed the game is 15 dollars on Wii and 20 on PC. I don't feel like paying a premium for the pirates.

 

[rezuth]

Can't afford it? Don't get it!

I can't afford a Viper. Doesn't mean I should steal one.

This is not really the same, hence no one loses the Viper in question. Not to start a flame war but you should think before you post.

I bought it day one but have not gone pass world 3 yet. It somehow does not feel very nice to throw around all the goo.

 

[Campster]

This is not really the same, hence no one loses the Viper in question. Not to start a flame war but you should think before you post.

I bought it day one but have not gone pass world 3 yet. It somehow does not feel very nice to throw around all the goo.

While comparing actual property to intellectual property is undeniably flawed, the pirate's logic isn't any better - "I wouldn't pay for it, but I'd happily play it for free, so I'll steal it because 0.00 is my going market price."

This isn't a fucking auction, and you can't just decide that breaking the law and violating someone's IP is cool because you think the game isn't worth its asking price. Either buy the damned game or don't - that's your choice. Piracy is not an option.

 

[Xizer]

You don't get to steal something just because you can't afford it.

Piracy isn't stealing. hth

Yeah man, preach it! I mean, that's perfect reasoning right there! "I wouldn't be able to afford it anyway, so I may as well steal it!"

Shit, I'm gonna go get me a ferrari!

If you could make an exact copy of a Ferrari whilst leaving the original intact then yes, I would go "steal" a Ferrari.

While comparing actual property to intellectual property is undeniably flawed, the pirate's logic isn't any better - "I wouldn't pay for it, but I'd happily play it for free, so I'll steal it because 0.00 is my going market price."

This isn't a fucking auction, and you can't just decide that breaking the law and violating someone's IP is cool because you think the game isn't worth its asking price. Either buy the damned game or don't - that's your choice. Piracy is not an option.

How amusing that you defend something just because it is a law. A law is simply someone else's way of exerting control over you. It is someone else's beliefs.

So do you support the execution of women in Saudi Arabia for being raped too? It is the law, after all!

 

[Campster]

Piracy isn't stealing. hth

It isn't stealing in the sense of physically taking something that is owned by someone else.

It is stealing in the sense of obtaining ownership of a good for free that would otherwise cost money by means outside of the law.

It's all semantics, but it's absolutely unethical and there's no defense for it.

Edit:

If you could make an exact copy of a Ferrari whilst leaving the original intact then yes, I would go "steal" a Ferrari.

Then you're an inherently selfish person.

 

[Xizer]

It isn't stealing in the sense of physically taking something that is owned by someone else.

It is stealing in the sense of obtaining ownership of a good for free that would otherwise cost money by means outside of the law.

It's all semantics, but it's absolutely unethical and there's no defense for it.

Maybe it's unethical to you, but we all have different ethics.

Again, your hard-on for the law is ridiculous. You probably break hundreds of stupid laws every day that just aren't enforced.

 

[Campster]

How amusing that you defend something just because it is a law. A law is simply someone else's way of exerting control over you. It is someone else's beliefs.

So do you support the execution of women in Saudi Arabia for being raped too? It is the law, after all!

This is a bullshit argument and you know it.

There's no justification for piracy, it's taking something you want but refuse to actually pay for that is at the expense of those who developed and published it. It's stealing. The fact that they're not out physical product at the end of the theft is irrelevant.

 

[AstroLad]

if the normative argument that copyright law is important to encourage and reward creativity ever applied ANYWHERE it's here

 

[asmodeal]

I guess it's been said already but what would devs prefer.

Of course they would like no piracy at all,
but would they prefer less people playing their game without any pirated games or more people playing with some pirated copies (yeah i admit 90% is huge but what about other games anyway).

Easy to say for me and still.

 

[theBishop]

If it wasn't for this thread, I wouldn't have known about this game. And now that I do, I see there is a gnu/Linux version available. Purchase +1!

Pirates FTW???

EDIT: OH FFS!

Thank you, from both of the 2D Boys, for your order.

We are trying an experiment: World of Goo has absolutely no copy protection or DRM at all, since we want to give you (and everyone) the best experience we can. Thanks for not distributing this, and helping us make this possible!

The Windows and Mac versions are available at the link above. The Linux version will be out of beta soon, and available for you to download when it is ready.

I realize now that it says right on the homepage. But I just saw the Penguin under "Buy Now" and clicked blind. Supporting the little guy just bit me in the ass.

 

[poppabk]

The numbers scale to any amount. If your profitability depends on 1% of your income something is wrong and by your numbers they already made $2,000,000. They even admit to this scale and therefore I don't understand what the actual complain is about?
Aren't they basically saying "We wish more people would like our game"?

A lot of industries operate with a net profit margin of 1% or less.
http://biz.yahoo.com/p/sum_qpmd.html
Of course for a small company like this its not really relevant its more of a risk reward kind of thing. Ie Hopefully most releases manage to cover basic operating expenses, with the chance that you have a break out hit that actually makes some money.

 

[Xizer]

This is a bullshit argument and you know it.

There's no justification for piracy, it's taking something you want but refuse to actually pay for that is at the expense of those who developed and published it. It's stealing. The fact that they're not out physical product at the end of the theft is irrelevant.

Looks to be about as much of a bullshit argument as saying piracy is stealing. :lol

 

[Campster]

Looks to be about as much of a bullshit argument as saying piracy is stealing. :lol

Look, approaching piracy from the perspective that anarchy is awesome and the rules are for pussies and just put in place by "the man" to keep you down is idiotic once you get past about 13.

You're taking something that doesn't belong to you. You're devaluing the product. You're helping distribute the game to other pirates who have no interest in buying the game. In what way is this at all fair to the developer? In what way is this at all just? "Because I can" is a bullshit argument, and "Rules and laws are for losers" is a bullshit argument. Give me a legitimate defense of how your act of downloading a product with no intent of ever paying for it is anything but stealing.

 

[Xizer]

Look, approaching piracy from the perspective that anarchy is awesome and the rules are for pussies and just put in place by "the man" to keep you down is idiotic once you get past about 13.

You're taking something that doesn't belong to you. You're devaluing the product. You're helping distribute the game to other pirates who have no interest in buying the game. In what way is this at all fair to the developer? In what way is this at all just? "Because I can" is a bullshit argument, and "Rules and laws are for losers" is a bullshit argument. Give me a legitimate defense of how your act of downloading a product with no intent of ever paying for it is anything but stealing.

There's a difference between recognizing bullshit laws and not conforming to every single thing a politician decides is a good idea and being in favor of total anarchy.

hth

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

I haven't seen this game, but I'l buy the second the AU stroe gets it. I'mhearing great things.

 

[Campster]

There's a difference between recognizing bullshit laws and not conforming to every single thing a politician decides is a good idea and being in favor of total anarchy.

hth

You're dodging the question.

Explain to me, sir, how piracy in no way hurts the people who developed the game? Explain how taking something that doesn't belong to you, that other people have to pay for to obtain, is at all justifiable? How that's fair? How is enjoying the fruits of someone else's labor while bypassing the cost you rightfully owe them for that labor in any way defensible at all, without resorting to "the law is unjust because it makes me pay for things"?

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

There's a difference between recognizing bullshit laws and not conforming to every single thing a politician decides is a good idea and being in favor of total anarchy.

hth

If everyone thought this these games wouldn't exist.

 

[Xizer]

You're dodging the question.

Explain to me, sir, how piracy in no way hurts the people who developed the game? Explain how taking something that doesn't belong to you, that other people have to pay for to obtain, is at all justifiable? How that's fair? How is enjoying the fruits of someone else's labor while bypassing the cost you rightfully owe them for that labor in any way defensible at all, without resorting to "the law is unjust because it makes me pay for things"?

You aren't taking anything. Copying =/= taking

hth

 

[Pojo]

How amusing that you defend something just because it is a law. A law is simply someone else's way of exerting control over you. It is someone else's beliefs.

Oh, you non-conformist, you! Let me just say that karma can be a bitch sometimes.

On a serious note, it boggles the mind how 90% of all copies circulated were stolen. How can digital distribution continue to exist if this is the case? I wonder how the Wii version is doing (I assume it's harder to pirate for the Wii).

Isn't the PS3 pirate-proof? I hear something along those lines.

 

[TheExodu5]

Ugh...can someone just ban his ass already.

 

[Slavik81]

just wanted to fix your url

Very much appreciated.

 

[Xizer]

The 90% figure is ridiculous. I say this because, quite simply, out of every 10 people 9 of them know how to pirate things? Nope. That is way too high.

first, and most importantly, how we came up with this number: the game allows players to have their high scores reported to our server (it’s an optional checkbox). we record each score and the IP from which it came. we divided the total number of sales we had from all sources by the total number of unique IPs in our database, and came up with about 0.1. that’s how we came up with 90%.

These people are supposedly smart enough to develop a game? Apparently they've never heard of *gasp* dynamic IPs. Or perhaps they think everyone is on a business connection with a static IP address.

I also am amused by how they seem to think hundreds of peers on a torrent is some massive number or something. Spore torrents on TPB reached over a million peers within days. There are few torrents that don't reach hundreds of peers eventually.

Ugh...can someone just ban his ass already.

 

[aeolist]

Whether piracy is permissible or not is a valid argument to have, but saying it's wrong just because it's against the law is stupid.

Illegal != immoral

 

[Haunted]

I haven't seen this game, but I'l buy the second the AU stroe gets it. I'm hearing great things.

Totally up there with the very best downloadable games of this year, like BCR and Audiosurf, imo.

 

[DDayton]

Whether piracy is permissible or not is a valid argument to have, but saying it's wrong just because it's against the law is stupid.

While there is truth in that, it's equally stupid to say that something is not wrong because it's just against the law.

 

[LutherT17]

On a serious note, it boggles the mind how 90% of all copies circulated were stolen. How can digital distribution continue to exist if this is the case?

I continues to exist because of the profit made from the $2million revenue from the 100k* copies that were sold.

*This may well be a made up figure. I don't have a source for it. However, the point still applies. Profit from actual sales is what makes the model viable.

 

[Proven]

The 90% figure is ridiculous. I say this because, quite simply, out of every 10 people 9 of them know how to pirate things? Nope. That is way too high.



These people are supposedly smart enough to develop a game? Apparently they've never heard of *gasp* dynamic IPs. Or perhaps they think everyone is on a business connection with a static IP address.

You didn't read the article, and even the notes about their update was posted all around, so you didn't read much of the thread either. Plus, this statement goes in direct conflict to:

I also am amused by how they seem to think hundreds of peers on a torrent is some massive number or something. Spore torrents on TPB reached over a million peers within days. There are few torrents that don't reach hundreds of peers eventually.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/89/245063794_5ab866053b.jpg

If there are that many peers, they how do you know it's not possible to have that high a percentage of unpaid for copies?