mysteriousmage09
Member
Sickening that many people are giving them money for that abomination of an xpac.
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World of Warcraft at 5.5 million subscribers, will no longer share numbers
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Could be other factors imo, and churn response to content quality may not be that acute.
For example I felt MoP content quality is way above WotLK's.
TatteredHat
Member
That's been a bit of self fulfilling prophecy for them though, the only reason more people are just coming back to the game for expansions is because they aren't releasing any considerable content patches anymore. It's been like this since SoO came out in MoP, and despite not really delivering on faster expansion releases they sure have delivered on their lack of interest in supporting the game with content patches.
And yeah I don't like it either, if they're not going to bother supporting the game as they did in the past then they should get rid of the sub. fee. The game is already filled with micro-transactions anyway. Of course, never going to happen.
I thought these numbers were rather similar months ago? Lmao at those saying WOW is dead. The game is still massively popular, however, I doubt Legion will see the same number spike after the Draenor end game letdown, unless it truly changes up the game or does something exceptional.
ultratruman
Banned
As soon as I heard you can pay for levels now, I lost all interest in returning.
If you watched their interview, Blizz has accepted that their delivery pace (with long reiteration cycles they will not compromise on) is far outstripped by current gen attention span and consumption rate.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
So the players are wrong by losing interested and the only way Blizzard could speed up the process is by compromising? Blizzard's game have also been quite a lot more buggy than you'd expect of them in recent years.
imho, issue with wow is pretty much pacing of the content, not quality..
in terms of quality, content in wow is terrific..
in terms of pacing, content is terri..ble
if you're an "avid" player in a decent guild, 1//2 months after release of new content, you will have done EVERYTHING the game has to offer in terms of new content..
Issue is, that there is no actual goal in redoing stuff..
e.g. take guild wars 2.. sure doing drake is tedious and useless as poo, but you might as well do it and do other useless weekly event to gather gold and with gold buy yourself something..
in wow you are doing raid content ONLY to do raid content and get loot for yourself.. there is no secondary effect of obtaining some stuff that you can resell or similar.. arguably this is for the best, as blizz has proven themselves unable to balance drop rates and drop availability for sale (see diablo3.. even if you remove the concept of RMAH, AH in d3 was a clusterfuck).
But on the other hand, pushing content the same way of other games like ffxiv or gw2 would require blizzard to rework their approach..
when they release new content they release it along with ancilla content..
e.g. introduce hellfire citadel? ok they give you new daily, new factions, new rewards, new zone (tanaan)and on the top of that the new raid
the solution would have been to "unlock" all those stuff gradually say every 1 month..
this way it would seem less of a slog from the player perspective..
from the player perspective if you give me a lot of stuff to do on month 1 and then you don't give me anything new for 8-9 month you've given me nothing....
anyway i'll continue playing, make no mistake, till the game closes
After 10 years i've grown attached
Thing is, they pretty much did that with MoP. 5.1 and 5.3 were both non raid patches that introduced a bunch of new ancillary content and continued the storyline. Even in 5.2 the Throne of Thunder raid was supplemented by Isle of Thunder, which unlocked over the weeks. Im not sure what happened with WoD, its just been a mess.
It's funny because the 3 examples he listed 2 of them are still active games pushing out updates. Don't think most people realize how many MMOs (especially those that tried to go up against WoW) are still out there living and breathing with well established (albeit small) fan bases. We lose one every now and then (RIP Vanguard) but plenty are still alive and kicking. I mean shit, LOTRO isn't that far away from its own 10 year birthday at this point but you don't really see people talk about it much.
<--- Part of the problem. Hard to blame people though when if you are willing to take 10 minutes out of your day to do some mindless chores the game pays for itself. I subbed into mid 2017 through WoW tokens because why the fuck not. Tokens were going for 19k a pop and I was pulling in ~120k gold a week from my garrison. I don't like WoD much but I do love the fact that it allowed me to get every single TCG mount which I never thought I would have.
yea, if this game is dead then the entire MMO genre is dead
notice how Square never releases FFXIV active sub numbers? because they're significantly below this and they don't want people to know how unpopular their still shitty MMO is.
That spike at the start of WoD. Blizzard did a really good job of hyping the expansion, and even if the premise was extremely flimsy, the fanservice seemed to carry it. Shame it all went to total shit after that. Not to mention it cost more than other expansions.
I want to believe Legion might be better, but at this time the only thing even pulling me in is the setting and the fact that the story is actually going to be relevant this time round.
I want to believe Legion might be better, but at this time the only thing even pulling me in is the setting and the fact that the story is actually going to be relevant this time round.
There is no wrong or right party, unless one feels Blizzard is "wrong" for not having faster dev cycles.
I think also the separation of PvP and PvE could remove some of the sameness.
I could see Blizzard revamping the game with a WoW HD, up the graphics and just fix a lot of bullshit engine stuff still hanging around from old days.
I'd totally play again if I could revisit the old zones in proper HD with new models and better textures. Roaming through Durotar would be awesome with decent terrain modelling.
I'd totally play again if I could revisit the old zones in proper HD with new models and better textures. Roaming through Durotar would be awesome with decent terrain modelling.
here ill finish it for you
it will continue the trend, and then probably steady out at 800k-1.5m until they turn servers off. but even that many players is a shitload of money. I think even EQ in it's heyday had like 600k max
They just did new models. It took them like 3 years to finish lol.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Agreed the comment just sounded accusingly, so I responded in style.
TerryLee81
Member
Wonder how much money they made in total, over all those years...
Coral Griffon
Lionhead, Game Director
WoW is so not dying. It's just no longer the mass, casually played game it once was. Those sub numbers are more than twenty times over the subs in any other MMO.
Blizzard could run with half this number, probably a quarter, of those number of current subs and run a healthy profit.
The interesting thing to consider is the "cooling" of the MMO market generally. All of the major IPs, and many minor ones, have seen their MMO iterations in the last ten to fifteen years. Some profitable, most not. What seems more likely is that gaming interest has legitimately changed, and it's not clear that even the hard core have the stamina for the pure commitment and grind that MMOs demand more than any game genre. The same dopamine hit that you can get for achievement-style leveling can be had easier and faster in more popular forms today - everything from MOBAs to mobile games.
Blizzard could run with half this number, probably a quarter, of those number of current subs and run a healthy profit.
The interesting thing to consider is the "cooling" of the MMO market generally. All of the major IPs, and many minor ones, have seen their MMO iterations in the last ten to fifteen years. Some profitable, most not. What seems more likely is that gaming interest has legitimately changed, and it's not clear that even the hard core have the stamina for the pure commitment and grind that MMOs demand more than any game genre. The same dopamine hit that you can get for achievement-style leveling can be had easier and faster in more popular forms today - everything from MOBAs to mobile games.
Not anywhere close to what it used to be.
People still think that WoW is 2/3 Chinese like it used to be during Wrath of the Lich King but that's not true anymore.
When Mists of Pandaria launched on China there was a press release stating that WoW China rocketed back up to 1 million concurrent players, but when Blizzard announced the first subscriber loss of MoP they said that most of the losses were in China. The same was said for the next quarter.
So, a lot of the subscriber losses were Chinese players migrating to Free to play MMOS like Blade and Soul.
TBiddy
Member
Do you have any numbers on how many subs are in Europe?
FunkyDealer
Banned
It's weird that there's no official Vanilla and WoTLK servers yet. I think that would be a relatively cheap way to bring back some subscribers.
AzureSkies
Member
I thought the same thing, a progression server that starts at Vanilla would definitely make me come back to the game.
-MD-
Member
Huh, I quit exactly when the game peaked in subscribers right before Cata released.
WoW was at its best during Burning Crusade imo, WotLK and general fatigue killed my love for the game.
Yeah I thought with all the money and ridiculous team count at Blizzard they'd actually be competent at doing 3D model updates. I just want WoW HD so I can relive the glorious vanilla days.
Possumowner
Member
Thats still a hell of alot of people handing over subs.Love to know how much in total its made them from the beginning to now
Herbspiceguy
Member
I've played WoW since beta, starting out playing hardcore, then gradually less, but returning with each expansion. It still feels very comfort-zoney, but at the same time also very stale; end of the day it's still the same old mechanics, grinding and pvp.
This makes me wish Blizzard would make a new traditional MMORPG once more. Sadly that probably won't happen after Titan turned into Overwatch. While I think Overwatch looks awesome the way it is now, I still think Blizzard's signature, comfort-zoney, very polished MMORPG feel will be missed in future MMORPG's.
This makes me wish Blizzard would make a new traditional MMORPG once more. Sadly that probably won't happen after Titan turned into Overwatch. While I think Overwatch looks awesome the way it is now, I still think Blizzard's signature, comfort-zoney, very polished MMORPG feel will be missed in future MMORPG's.
I think the guesstimate was 1,2 billion per year. Lately numbers have been dropping rapidly though. With Chinese players making up a large part of the playerbase that number will be dropping even further (They pay far less to play WoW).
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Everyone is waiting for Titan to drop, hehe.
Benzychenz
Member
Pretty crazy that it still has that many, really.
Like, 5.5m is a great amount of sales for any game, but to have that many people still actively playing an 11 year old game is insane.
Like, 5.5m is a great amount of sales for any game, but to have that many people still actively playing an 11 year old game is insane.
Some of that figures are sustained thru gold-traded reloads tho, so the actual sub revenue may be lower.
I remember saying that at the end of WotLK.
The game was never the same after the changes following Wrath of the Lich King. The developers were obstinate and refused to rollback the changes, plodding ahead in their own direction instead. So the numbers began declining.
They had a chance to win back most of those lost with WoD, but again, refused to make the changes players actually wanted. So, they lost even more than they briefly enticed back.
The problems have been firmly rooted with the creative director(s) for years.
They had a chance to win back most of those lost with WoD, but again, refused to make the changes players actually wanted. So, they lost even more than they briefly enticed back.
The problems have been firmly rooted with the creative director(s) for years.
Novel Mike
Member
I'm honestly surpised it wasn't much much lower, were at the downtime point in the game, although there is a minor patch on the way it doesn't add much to keep people around so I really expected it to drop to around 4.5 or maybe 4. The 100k loss is not much at all for the time period we are in, clearly WoW token helps (only reason I'm still playing, I have 1.5 million gold so 30k to play each month is just nothing) but honestly unlike most of the people here singing doom and gloom (like always xD) this drop being so small is actually making me rather hopeful Legion and the movie will bring in a lot of new/returning players and now with the WoW token being available it may make the expansion boost actually last much longer then it normally does (since you don't have to pay the fee to play the game) well at least if Legion is good.
But dear god launch day is going to have so many freaking Demon Hunters...
But dear god launch day is going to have so many freaking Demon Hunters...
QuixoticNeutral
Member
If they stick to their guns with fast expansion cycles with two raid tiers and scant endgames, catering their efforts towards new zones/art and one-time world content, I think spikes to 10 million on release and drops to 5 million within 1-3 months will be the new normal. And I get the feeling the development team is prepared for this. A lot of players (even serious veterans) are curious enough to see the content once, then leave, as they've been immunized against the grind of repeatable tasks stretched out over months. No degree of design success or quantity/breadth of content is likely to turn this around. I wouldn't be surprised at all if WoD were still internally considered a success by the numbers, assuming it hasn't burnt enough goodwill to deter a significant number of players from shelling out for the next expansion, including those who only intend to stay for a month or less.
I'm subscribed thanks to the WoW token, and this has actually been my most continuously active expansion since WotLK, but I've felt adequately provided for as a mid-level heroic raider who likes casually dipping back into old content (especially content smartly designed for future-proof horizontal progression that doesn't get chucked out the window with the arrival of new expansions, the prime example being pet battles). The world, questing experience, and raids are all as good as ever; there's just a lot of filler where interesting profession/economy interactions, mid-expansion solo content, late-expansion dungeons, and functioning PVP used to be. And breadth of coverage for all levels of commitment is what keeps the subscription numbers afloat.
For years it was clear that WoW was on double duty as a systems/design testbed for a future MMO, but now that Titan has been stripped down to Overwatch one wonders if this is still the case, or if the plan is to stabilize WoW as a consistent experience between expansions instead of overhauling it on every pass.
I'm subscribed thanks to the WoW token, and this has actually been my most continuously active expansion since WotLK, but I've felt adequately provided for as a mid-level heroic raider who likes casually dipping back into old content (especially content smartly designed for future-proof horizontal progression that doesn't get chucked out the window with the arrival of new expansions, the prime example being pet battles). The world, questing experience, and raids are all as good as ever; there's just a lot of filler where interesting profession/economy interactions, mid-expansion solo content, late-expansion dungeons, and functioning PVP used to be. And breadth of coverage for all levels of commitment is what keeps the subscription numbers afloat.
For years it was clear that WoW was on double duty as a systems/design testbed for a future MMO, but now that Titan has been stripped down to Overwatch one wonders if this is still the case, or if the plan is to stabilize WoW as a consistent experience between expansions instead of overhauling it on every pass.
neurosisxeno
Member
There's a good reason for that. The models have certain anchor points so armor "fits" and scales properly. That means if you change the wireframe you have to make sure every single item in the game interacts with it properly--which takes a very long time.
While I had the most fun with the game during TBC, I completely disagree. It was the most enjoyable time for me because I was younger (finishing HS) and had way more time to spend doing raids and just generally diving into the game. But if you look at a lot of elements of TBC, they were horrible. That god awful convoluted attunement process was the thing of nightmares, the general difficulty of some of the raids was oughta control (Vashj was probably the most infuriating thing on Earth), just about everything boiled down to grinding (Faction Grinding Galore!) or absolute chance (no smart drops so have fun running the same Heroic once a day for weeks to get a single belt), and a lot of other issues definitely dragged it down. On top of that, when you play through Cata content or MoP content (let alone WoD content) you realize how archaic TBC quests and questlines were, it was almost always "go stand here and use an item because reasons unknown" or "kill 10 netherwing love-makers" or "collect 10 netherwing condoms". While Outlands was a very interesting place, it was pretty devoid of actual soul.
Those things normally happen in the twilight days of an MMO. As its damn near dead as a final cash grab because they have no longevity. I have seen many MMO's do those type of servers. It gets a jump for 6 months then dies after everyone gets their nostalgia kick leaving a server that no one plays on anymore that eventually gets closed.
Wow will get there, but not for quite a while.
What's wrong with XIV?
I mean... It's kinda starting to feel like it.
But yeah, WoW is not going anywhere for a while and 5,5 million is still a huge userbase.
And I still often have the twinge to start playing again.
Having played WoW when it was at it's absolute peak is like having a nicotine addiction.
Sure you can quit smoking, but for the rest of your life you're going to have to deal with the fact that you sometimes get cravings for no reason at all.
I wish I could relive that time when I first ventured into WoW. I don't think any game is ever going to surpass that experience.
Having played WoW when it was at it's absolute peak is like having a nicotine addiction.
Sure you can quit smoking, but for the rest of your life you're going to have to deal with the fact that you sometimes get cravings for no reason at all.
I wish I could relive that time when I first ventured into WoW. I don't think any game is ever going to surpass that experience.
neurosisxeno
Member
Which is kind of a horrible metric, because a lot of things can throw that number off--banned account rebuying the game, bots, multiboxers, gold farmers, etc. It's it's a Pay-2-Play game active accounts is really all the matters. I bought FFXIV for something like $10 on a Steam Sale and never played more than the 30 days that came with it.
Spiritwalker
Member
WoW will be fine again once the expac drops
there's literally no reason to play right now.
there's literally no reason to play right now.
its design is limited by working around PS3's paltry RAM.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
I only got into WoW the last couple years. It was fun for a while but it just feels like it'd take forever to catch up to where the game is at the moment. I'm only lvl 34 in Kalimdor. It just feels like a huge game of fetch these animal parts/flowers or kill x of y enemies.
Not worth paying £10 a month. I wouldn't mind if it was like ESO where you buy the game and have an optional subscription/microtransactions.
Not worth paying £10 a month. I wouldn't mind if it was like ESO where you buy the game and have an optional subscription/microtransactions.
Almost no chance, WoW is B-tier now, and has been for some time.
Hearthstone, HoTS, and Overwatch are the A-Team.
They have more users, bring more revenue in, and have far more growth potential whilst using less development resources.
Though I'd love to see that myself.
neurosisxeno
Member
The original FFXIV was probably the worst MMO ever made. I remember spending a few hours in the beta (a week before it launched) laughing at how awful it was. ARR at least did a good job upgrading every aspect of the game. I remember the original game was literally like corridors everywhere--it felt like an MMO on rails.
I'm yet to see an MMO where Microtransactions didn't completel destroy the game. I've heard decent things about SWTOR as of recent, but having seen it take a really promising game like Rift and absolutely destroy it was kind of heart breaking.
Really? Even the current version?