Support NeoGAF

[bleachrude]

While everyone is beating up antitype, how _DID_ the PS3 surge past the 360 in Europe?

It doesn't make sense other than brand loyalty since
a) the Xbox 360 has a lower price
b) better multiplatorms
c) more robust online features.

Sure, the last couple of years I can see the PS3 maybe catching up/pulling even during the months but how during the 1st 5 years was the 360 (AND the Wii for that matter) not absolutely crushing the PS3 in sales to the extent that it should've never caught up.

Even with the RRoD, the combination of all 3 of these should have given the 360 an insurmountable lead. Is this why TLoU is so huge in Europe but doesn't appear to be as big in North America. or is the stereotype of Europe is Sonyland that freaking true?

 

[iamshadowlark]

lol, what would it matter at that point?

It would matter further cement the idea that Nintendo, whose Wii sales fell off a cliff a long while ago , is being pushed out of the home console market.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

lol, what would it matter at that point?

Why would it not matter lol.

Are you going to disregard the 60 million ps2's sold this gen just because the competitors stopped selling. Its a pretty notable thing if the ps3 does in fact outsell the Wii.

Go back to the beginning of this gen and if you said the ps3 was going to sell over 100 million and outsell the Wii people would laugh at you. To think it has a possibility of coming true is accredited to how well the PS3 was able to to recover.

 

[Canis lupus]

And the Wii is going to add no sales?

Nope, not more than what Nintendo forecasts for this FY, dont see Wii selling at all after that.

 

[Skeff]

While everyone is beating up antitype, how _DID_ the PS3 surge past the 360 in Europe?

It doesn't make sense other than brand loyalty since
a) the Xbox 360 has a lower price
b) better multiplatorms
c) more robust online features.

Sure, the last couple of years I can see the PS3 maybe catching up/pulling even during the months but how during the 1st 5 years was the 360 (AND the Wii for that matter) not absolutely crushing the PS3 in sales to the extent that it should've never caught up.

Even with the RRoD, the combination of all 3 of these should have given the 360 an insurmountable lead. Is this why TLoU is so huge in Europe but doesn't appear to be as big in North America. or is the stereotype of Europe is Sonyland that freaking true?

Mainland Europes bases all belongs to Sony. UK is pretty heavy Xbox territory though maybe 60:40 now, though it appears the UK will be Sony next gen judging anecdotally and from UK statistics we have available.

 

[Satchel]

Once Sony and Microsoft do proper price drops both their older consoles should reach 100 mill.

Astonishing.

 

[Jigolo]

PS3 Unit Sales (Unit: Million)

 HW      Ap-Jn     Jl-Sp     Oc-Dc     Ja-Mr      FY        LTD

FY06       -         -        1.7       1.8       3.5       3.5

FY07      0.7       1.3       4.9       2.2       9.1       12.6 

FY08      1.6       2.4       4.5       1.6       10.1      22.7 

FY09      1.1       3.2       6.5       2.2       13.0      35.7

FY10      2.4       3.5       6.3       2.1       14.3      50.0

FY11      1.8       3.7       6.5       1.9       13.9      63.9

--------------------------------------------------------------------

                November 2, 2013                            80 M

360 Unit Sales (Unit: Million)

  FY          Jl-Sp    Oc-Dc    Ja-Mr    Ap-Jn      FY       LTD

2005/06         -       1.5      1.7      1.8       5.0      5.0

2006/07        1.0      4.4      0.5      0.7       6.6     11.6
    
2007/08        1.8      4.3      1.3      1.3       8.7     20.3  
  
2008/09        2.2      6.0      1.7      1.2      11.2     31.5  
   
2009/10        2.1      5.2      1.5      1.5      10.3     41.8

2010/11        2.8      6.3      2.7      1.7      13.7     55.3 

2011/12        2.3      8.2      1.4      1.1      13.0     68.3

2012/13        1.7      5.9      1.3      1.0      9.9      78.2

2013/14        1.2       -        -        -        -       79.4

------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    October 2013                            80 M

Microsoft

Where are FY12 sales for ps3? Didn't ps3 sell 2 million from may to September of 2013 or something?

 

[Frankenstein]

While everyone is beating up antitype, how _DID_ the PS3 surge past the 360 in Europe?

It doesn't make sense other than brand loyalty since
a) the Xbox 360 has a lower price
b) better multiplatorms
c) more robust online features.

Sure, the last couple of years I can see the PS3 maybe catching up/pulling even during the months but how during the 1st 5 years was the 360 (AND the Wii for that matter) not absolutely crushing the PS3 in sales to the extent that it should've never caught up.

Even with the RRoD, the combination of all 3 of these should have given the 360 an insurmountable lead. Is this why TLoU is so huge in Europe but doesn't appear to be as big in North America. or is the stereotype of Europe is Sonyland that freaking true?

We live and we die under the vast shadow of the Playstation in continental Europe since the mid nineties.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

Why would it not matter lol.

Are you going to disregard the 60 million ps2's sold this gen just because the competitors stopped selling. Its a pretty notable thing if the ps3 does in fact outsell the Wii.

Go back to the beginning of this gen and if you said the ps3 was going to sell over 100 million and outsell the Wii people would laugh at you. To think it has a possibility of coming true is accredited to how well the PS3 was able to to recover.

Ok, let's wait for 2018 then! We'll have a big party and celebrate how PS3 in 12 years managed to outsell what the Wii sold in 6 years.

 

[nib95]

While everyone is beating up antitype, how _DID_ the PS3 surge past the 360 in Europe?

It doesn't make sense other than brand loyalty since
a) the Xbox 360 has a lower price
b) better multiplatorms
c) more robust online features.

Sure, the last couple of years I can see the PS3 maybe catching up/pulling even during the months but how during the 1st 5 years was the 360 (AND the Wii for that matter) not absolutely crushing the PS3 in sales to the extent that it should've never caught up.

Even with the RRoD, the combination of all 3 of these should have given the 360 an insurmountable lead. Is this why TLoU is so huge in Europe but doesn't appear to be as big in North America. or is the stereotype of Europe is Sonyland that freaking true?

Europeans love them Sony exclusives.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Ok, let's wait for 2018 then! We'll have a big party and celebrate how PS3 in 12 years managed to outsell what the Wii sold in 6 years.

Lol. Its not the Ps3's fault that the Wii died down so quickly. Wii just don't got dem legs

Its pretty remarkable considering how they were doing at the beginning of this gen.

 

[DBT85]

While everyone is beating up antitype, how _DID_ the PS3 surge past the 360 in Europe?

It doesn't make sense other than brand loyalty since
a) the Xbox 360 has a lower price
b) better multiplatorms
c) more robust online features.

Sure, the last couple of years I can see the PS3 maybe catching up/pulling even during the months but how during the 1st 5 years was the 360 (AND the Wii for that matter) not absolutely crushing the PS3 in sales to the extent that it should've never caught up.

Even with the RRoD, the combination of all 3 of these should have given the 360 an insurmountable lead. Is this why TLoU is so huge in Europe but doesn't appear to be as big in North America. or is the stereotype of Europe is Sonyland that freaking true?

Its in part down to how MS treats any non English speaking nations with the 360. Shit that make the 360 in the US a compelling purchase just never comes to many countries.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Do please add up the number of the western games that sell significant numbers in Japan, and then compare them to the number of Japanese franchises and games that sell in the West.

Please. I beg you.

Demonstrate your will-full ignorance to us all as you defend glorious Nippon.

Why should he? You're doing it just fine on your own.

 

[Chezzymann]

I feel like I've heard this same news story four times over the past year

 

[Clear]

260m plus units of console hardware* over the course of the generation, that's pretty damn good, even for such an extended cycle.

What's doubly amazing is the meteoric rise in smartphone and tablet gaming, as well as the resurgence of the PC market over the same period.

Next time some joker pulls the "gaming iz teh doooomed" card, it'd be wise to remember that the numbers tell a different story.



*This is just PS3, 360, and Wii, so I'm making the usual mistake of ignoring the 50m plus PS2 units Sony shipped since 360 kicked off the gen in 2005! Not to mention Nintendo's continuing domination of the handheld space.

 

[Dragon]

While everyone is beating up antitype, how _DID_ the PS3 surge past the 360 in Europe?

It doesn't make sense other than brand loyalty since
a) the Xbox 360 has a lower price
b) better multiplatorms
c) more robust online features.

Sure, the last couple of years I can see the PS3 maybe catching up/pulling even during the months but how during the 1st 5 years was the 360 (AND the Wii for that matter) not absolutely crushing the PS3 in sales to the extent that it should've never caught up.

Even with the RRoD, the combination of all 3 of these should have given the 360 an insurmountable lead. Is this why TLoU is so huge in Europe but doesn't appear to be as big in North America. or is the stereotype of Europe is Sonyland that freaking true?

PS3 has actually been supported by first party games as it's going out the door. Microsoft stop giving a shit about the 360 other than moneyhatting third party content exclusives years ago.

Do please add up the number of the western games that sell significant numbers in Japan, and then compare them to the number of Japanese franchises and games that sell in the West.

Please. I beg you.

Demonstrate your will-full ignorance to us all as you defend glorious Nippon.

Call of Duty actually sells pretty well too. And the word is willful. Kinda giggle-worthy considering you follow it with ignorance and you don't even know how to spell the word.

 

[shaowebb]

I wonder what the price of a PS3 is going to be on Black Friday?

 

[NHale]

While everyone is beating up antitype, how _DID_ the PS3 surge past the 360 in Europe?

It doesn't make sense other than brand loyalty since
a) the Xbox 360 has a lower price
b) better multiplatorms
c) more robust online features.

Sure, the last couple of years I can see the PS3 maybe catching up/pulling even during the months but how during the 1st 5 years was the 360 (AND the Wii for that matter) not absolutely crushing the PS3 in sales to the extent that it should've never caught up.

Even with the RRoD, the combination of all 3 of these should have given the 360 an insurmountable lead. Is this why TLoU is so huge in Europe but doesn't appear to be as big in North America. or is the stereotype of Europe is Sonyland that freaking true?

Maybe but just maybe it's because Microsoft treats most European countries like shit. They charge more for LIVE and give us just a barebones service compared to other "Tier 1" countries. Some of them don't even have the right to XBLIG. Those services announced at E3 and everyone is so excited about? They are not ever going to be available for Tier 2 countries...

Meanwhile, Sony continues to push 1st party games with voice acting to every major speaking language in Europe, marketing everywhere, etc...

I also found it interesting that you forgot to mention the exclusives as your list to justify Microsoft's failure. Maybe they don't matter now.

 

[mujun]

Well, PS3 crossed 80 million one month after 360, so even though PS3 sells more quarterly than 360, obviously it hasn't happened. Yet.

GT6 should be able to do it though.

Who were the guys arguing with Dynopia in that one thread like a year ago or something about how the PS3 was already ahead of the 360?

iamshadowlark?

 

[Coxy]

Europeans love them Sony exclusives.

Europe likes japanese games a lot more than the us does atm too

 

[iamshadowlark]

Who were the guys arguing with Dynopia in that one thread like a year ago or something about how the PS3 was already ahead of the 360?

iamshadowlark?

LOL you remember enough to namedrop but have no clue of what the actual argument was?

 

[AranhaHunter]

100 million is definitely within reach. Will be funny if the PS3 ends up being the best selling console this generation.

 

[AgentChris]

3 straight generations of 100M units is gonna happen in a couple years. That's amazing.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

So the PS3 is actually not ahead of the 360 (yet anyway)? wtf

 

[fiyah]

Taking the following events into play. I would consider the PS3 the winner of this gen

- Wii's irrelevance since 2011
- RROD
- $599.99
- Harder to code for
- Limited 3rd party releases in the first year

It's some of these same events that happened that I think is shaping up Xbone to mount a similar or even better comeback with the xbone (in terms of perception). Xbone with built-in cable box functionality subsidized and issue by Time Warner/Comcast could do the trick

Spoiler

in the US

 

[nampad]

While everyone is beating up antitype, how _DID_ the PS3 surge past the 360 in Europe?

It doesn't make sense other than brand loyalty since
a) the Xbox 360 has a lower price
b) better multiplatorms
c) more robust online features.

Sure, the last couple of years I can see the PS3 maybe catching up/pulling even during the months but how during the 1st 5 years was the 360 (AND the Wii for that matter) not absolutely crushing the PS3 in sales to the extent that it should've never caught up.

Even with the RRoD, the combination of all 3 of these should have given the 360 an insurmountable lead. Is this why TLoU is so huge in Europe but doesn't appear to be as big in North America. or is the stereotype of Europe is Sonyland that freaking true?

Yes, it has a lot to do with the brand but I think your argument is really closeminded. There are reasons for picking a PS3 over the 360. Just to counter your points:

A) better value (before 360 slim, wifi and maybe harddrive could be mentioned, else bluray compatibility)
B) better exclusive games
C) free online

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Good stuff Sony, quite the turn-around

 

[TGO]

Tablets and smartphones will stop it from reaching 100million

prepare for the last console gen guize.

I think smartphones and tablets effect PC's more then consoles tbh, especially for casuals who only use PC for internet.

 

[fiyah]

I think smartphones and tablets effect PC's more then consoles tbh, especially for casuals who only use PC for internet.

This. I was recently crucified for saying in 5-10 years tablets will replace laptops and laptops will replace desktops. Tablet/phone gaming affects handheld gaming a lot more than it does console gaming because it took the kids/licensed games market and a lot of the pick up and play Pets/Nintendogs/Brain Train market.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

10m shipped in exactly a year. Good going by Sony. Might be tough to meet their fiscal target though because there has been a slow down in PS3 sales with the current pricing model. They won't be able to cut the price though until the PS4 has established profitability within the ecosystem which may not happen until 2015.

 

[makingmusic476]

While everyone is beating up antitype, how _DID_ the PS3 surge past the 360 in Europe?

It doesn't make sense other than brand loyalty since
a) the Xbox 360 has a lower price
b) better multiplatorms
c) more robust online features.

Sure, the last couple of years I can see the PS3 maybe catching up/pulling even during the months but how during the 1st 5 years was the 360 (AND the Wii for that matter) not absolutely crushing the PS3 in sales to the extent that it should've never caught up.

Even with the RRoD, the combination of all 3 of these should have given the 360 an insurmountable lead. Is this why TLoU is so huge in Europe but doesn't appear to be as big in North America. or is the stereotype of Europe is Sonyland that freaking true?

C isn't true across mainland Europe. XBL is mostly devoid of features outside of US/UK, despite having a similar price tag in every market. This is typical of Microsoft's treatment of non-English territories, and I think it heavily influences the stark difference in marketshare in mainland EU vs UK.

Gran Turismo is another factor. The series is incredibly popular in Europe, with the bulk of its ~11 million sales coming from that region.

 

[LukasTaves]

None of what you said dismisses the fact that it seems extremely likely that Microsoft sold a substantial amount more consoles as "extra replacements" over Sony. The 360 was one of the biggest hardware fuckups in a long time. There are many stories of people having more than 3 die for example.

People aren't talking about refurbs. They're talking about new Xbox360s sold to owners who said "fuck this shit" after already sending their launch units back to MS for repair thrice.

Even if that was indeed common for many people, unless the owner disintegrates the console it can still be refurbished resold and still be active...

Not sure how common it is in US, but in brazil, specially before the console came here officially, all the issues imported consoles had could not be sent to warranty, so 3rd parties went on fixing the console themselves...

I'm friends with one guys who owns a game store and he used to receive plates full of brand new 360's gpus to re weld dead consoles...

Pretty much everyone that I know in person that had one console dead either fixed it and kept, or had it fixed, osld and got a brand new one.

None of what you said dismisses the fact that it seems extremely likely that Microsoft sold a substantial amount more consoles as "extra replacements" over Sony. The 360 was one of the biggest hardware fuckups in a long time. There are many stories of people having more than 3 die for example.

People aren't talking about refurbs. They're talking about new Xbox360s sold to owners who said "fuck this shit" after already sending their launch units back to MS for repair thrice.

Well over 30 million PS3's back in 2012, though that is technically PAL so includes Aus and NZ:

http://metro.co.uk/2012/12/19/playstation-3-sales-hit-30-million-in-europe-3323531/

We know the 360 was at 13.7milion EU/PAL in mid 2011 when PS3 was at 14.7million:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33842/GameStop_Details_Europe_US_Installed_Base_For_Consoles.php

Apparently the PS3 has stretched it's legs since then a lot, I think the current estimates are around 20million vs. 32million as the PS3 began to pull away once the prices became much closer.

Though we don't have any up to date numbers for the 360.

I see, so between Europe and Asia there's a 20mi units gap for Ps3? That's quite a lot... Where do 360 makes up for it? In the US?

 

[Dragonborn]

I think a lot of people don't take into account just how massive the Xbox 360 was in NA. They lead 2-1, MS sold something like 20 million+ more Xbox 360s in NA than Sony did PS3s. This is the primary reason why loosing NA dominance will be a huge loss. Heck, even a 60/40 (that's being incredibly optimistic) split in Microsoft's favor would be pretty bad for them. In fact, I'm not 100% on this, but MS sold something like 50 million of their 80 million units in just NA and UK, that's over 60%. NA and the UK are their cash cows after all.

 

[N.Domixis]

I think a lot of people don't take into account just how massive the Xbox 360 was in NA. They lead 2-1, MS sold something like 20 million+ more Xbox 360s in NA than Sony did PS3s. This is the primary reason why loosing NA dominance will be a huge loss. Heck, even a 60/40 (that's being incredibly optimistic) split in Microsoft's favor would be pretty bad for them. In fact, I'm not 100% on this, but MS sold something like 50 million of their 80 million units in just NA and UK, that's over 60%. NA and the UK are their cash cows after all.

This is why it will be impossible for xbone to outsell ps4 if the ps4 even manages to match the xbone in us. The uk is going to be sony territory again with the xbone's price their.

 

[Nikodemos]

Even if that was indeed common for many people, unless the owner disintegrates the console it can still be refurbished resold and still be active...

Most of them just tossed the defective units in the trash (or the electronics recycling bin, in places where they are common).

 

[shinra-bansho]

I have sell-through estimates for "Europe" * through Sept 30th 2013 as:

360	19.6
PS3	23.8
Wii	27.6

Caveats: Based on Nintendo's investor presentation charts, subject to measurement error.
*N.B. It's only part of Europe:
2005/2006: UK, FR, GE
2007-2011: UK, FR, GE, SP
2012/2013: UK, FR, GE, SP, IT, NE, BE

 

[Mokubba]

I wonder what the price of a PS3 is going to be on Black Friday?

I remember seeing an image with Batman and The Last of Us bundled for $199

 

[FDC1]

While everyone is beating up antitype, how _DID_ the PS3 surge past the 360 in Europe?

It doesn't make sense other than brand loyalty since
a) the Xbox 360 has a lower price
b) better multiplatorms
c) more robust online features.

Sure, the last couple of years I can see the PS3 maybe catching up/pulling even during the months but how during the 1st 5 years was the 360 (AND the Wii for that matter) not absolutely crushing the PS3 in sales to the extent that it should've never caught up.

Even with the RRoD, the combination of all 3 of these should have given the 360 an insurmountable lead. Is this why TLoU is so huge in Europe but doesn't appear to be as big in North America. or is the stereotype of Europe is Sonyland that freaking true?

The Xbox brand is just too weak in many European markets. My mother which is 55 and has zero knowledge in video games (she would be able to recognize Mario and that's about it) knows what a "playstation" is. Talk to her about "Xbox" and she will ask you if it's a dish-washer or something. There is definitively a strong anti-Microsoft feeling too.

 

[malboroking]

Interesting.

Funny how throughout the history of the games industry, there's been little to no resistance to the embrace of Japanese game design and art styles. Indeed, they continue to sell quite handsomely even today to the open-minded and curious consumers in North America and Europe.

By comparison, the sales of Western games have never been embraced to the same extent by the Japanese population. It seems there's a fairly 'appeal directly to our tastes because we're not going to bother even attempting to give your tastes a chance' mindset. But it's not really surprising given the isolationist views and notoriously closed immigration policy. Xenophobia and the hate/fear of different, outsider perspectives seems built in to their culture.

You do realize you are the one being racist and xenophobic right? Please explain Apples success in Japan? Or the success of Disney and Pixar? Or any number of western bands? How successful is non-English movies or music in America again?

 

[Josh7289]

I wonder if it will surpass the Wii eventually to become the best-selling console of that generation.

 

[1st Course]

And the Wii is going to add no sales?

The thing haven't sold even 200k this year, it's completely dead.

 

[bleachrude]

Yes, it has a lot to do with the brand but I think your argument is really closeminded. There are reasons for picking a PS3 over the 360. Just to counter your points:

A) better value (before 360 slim, wifi and maybe harddrive could be mentioned, else bluray compatibility)
B) better exclusive games
C) free online

Except that this didn't extend to the beginning of the 7th generation.

Look at the monthly numbers for the PS3 and compare it to BOTH the 360 AND the Wii. Seriously, I'm looking at them now and Europeans are incredibly loyal to the PS3 even back at the early to mid part of the generation. This doesn't make any rational sense since sure NOW europeans can say "oh the PS3 offers more value" but in years 1-5 of this generation?

And again, this isnt JUST how the PS3 compared to the 360 but ALSO how it compared to the Wii. How did the PS3 do so well against BOTH consoles when in the rest of the world at this time it was getting slaughtered and you can't use the "oh the Wii didn't have exclusives" excuse like one could argue against the 360.

 

[ryaxnb]

This means sony sold 3.5 million PS2s in the last year (mar 2012-mar 2013) of its sales, by my maths.
That's a lot of PS2s.

 

[Giant Panda]

I don't think the PS3 will break 100 million. It will probably come close but fall short. Even in some of the developing countries that one would think the PS3 could stick around and for a while, Sony has been pushing the PS4. Also, the PS3 was just generally poorly designed and its not clear to me they'll be able to price reduce as much as they generally have in past generations.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I too don't think the PS3 will reach 100 million units.

It's not the PS2. It doesn't have the diversity of software that the PS2 had, and it's taking way too long to get to a reasonable price for such old hardware.

I'd wager it stops in the early 90's. Unit sales next year are likely to be a half of what they were this year, and the year after a half of that. I don't think there's a large pool of buyers left. I think those budget conscious buyers accepted that prices were higher and already bought in, or went somewhere else for their gaming needs.

I'll be shocked if the PS3 sells another 20 million units. Maybe another 20 million split between PS3/360. No platform this generation had the sheer amount of software of the PS2. None will have quite the selling power after their replacements release. Hell so far one of the replacements doesn't have selling power.

I don't think we're looking at a PS2 situation for any of them.

 

[tazz3]

Congrats to Sony turning around ps3. I been a ps3 owner since nov17,06 and a launch slim also

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Except that this didn't extend to the beginning of the 7th generation.

Look at the monthly numbers for the PS3 and compare it to BOTH the 360 AND the Wii. Seriously, I'm looking at them now and Europeans are incredibly loyal to the PS3 even back at the early to mid part of the generation. This doesn't make any rational sense since sure NOW europeans can say "oh the PS3 offers more value" but in years 1-5 of this generation?

And again, this isnt JUST how the PS3 compared to the 360 but ALSO how it compared to the Wii. How did the PS3 do so well against BOTH consoles when in the rest of the world at this time it was getting slaughtered and you can't use the "oh the Wii didn't have exclusives" excuse like one could argue against the 360.

Being better "value" (bluray player, for example, highly subjective topic) and having free online have always been day 1 features of the ps3. Having a franchise like Gran Turismo that sold ~10 million units in Europe alone (5 Prologue and 5) certainly helped them.
How are these arguments (among others) not in favor of the ps3 in the beginning of the generation, and also throughout the generation?

Sony started the generation with a $599 fiasco, and managed to sell the same amount of consoles in less time than Microsoft (7 years vs 8). People really underestimate the global appeal of "Playstation", just like they always do with Nintendo handhelds.
I'm not saying that Sony and Nintendo always make the right decisions (they don't) or that their market is or is not declining. Those are completely different topics. But the main point is that Sony closed the gap by being a popular brand across the world, instead of just one territory.

 

[ugh_the_boot]

I bought mine at launch because it was one of the cheapest blu-ray players that allowed firmware updates, the perk was it was also a regular gaming console.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

A year after 360 and they caught up.

Still have my launch ps3.

 

[Takao]

There's little doubt in my mind that PS3 will hit 100 million. PS1 was at 70 million when PS2 launched, and it ultimately tapped out at 102 million.