Look, literally the only thing that would change if Link was female in a game is all the text saying "boy" and the few combat voice clips there are. Can some of you people not even imagine a female character that isn't a pink flower? There could be almost no change at all involved aside from making it easier for young girls (and some boys that feel excluded for whatever reason) to identify with the completely blank character. If that alone makes the fanbase flip out, I don't even know what to say.
"There's no difference therefore it's really important" again?
You say it's important that some players strongly identify with a character then say it's silly if people strongly identify with a character as currently presented. This is just a strange argument.
It's like Carl marrying his Russian bride in Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
People would then say that Nintendo just changed the text and combat voice clips and that it's basically the old male Link, thumbs down, worst thing ever, burn them!!!!!one
People would then say that Nintendo just changed the text and combat voice clips and that it's basically the old male Link, thumbs down, worst thing ever, burn them!!!!!one
People would then say that Nintendo just changed the text and combat voice clips and that it's basically the old male Link, thumbs down, worst thing ever, burn them!!!!!one
But why would that be an issue? Why would that upset anybody? The point is that the gender is interchangeable because Link is not and has never been an actual character. He is an avatar. A female avatar who is otherwise exactly Link is just fine.
They've changed Link, very, very little. Like the same amount that Sonic changes inbetween Classic and Modern Sonic, any drastic change like this is on a whole different level that would cause Link to cease being Link.
Plus, in reality ALttP Link is litterally just LoZ Link and AoL smushed together.
Because that certain look is Link. Why the hell can't other people see this? It's no different than Mario or Sonic having a certain look, the rules aren't just changed because the haphazard Zelda lore that the general populous cares little for says it can change.
People would say that Nintendo didn't put any effort into it. Which would actually be right following the instructions of that post. Replace "he" with "she", done.
The point is that the gender is interchangeable because Link is not and has never been an actual character. He is an avatar. A female avatar who is otherwise exactly Link is just fine.
You address him as a male as well, just like even the first Legend Of Zelda manual.
Wouldn't it be way better to simply be able to select the gender instead and then maybe even get differences here and there in the game itself based on what gender was selected (probably adding replay value)? The male one is called Link, the female one is called something different. Wouldn't that be better? That would show actual effort. And I think that would be the proper way for Nintendo to do it. Maybe make them brother and sister.
People would say that Nintendo didn't put any effort into it. Which would actually be right following that post.
You address him as a male as well, just like even the first Legend Of Zelda manual.
Wouldn't it be way better to simply be able to select the gender instead and then maybe even get differences here and there in the game itself based on what gender was selected (probably adding replay value)? The male one is called Link, the female one is called something different. Wouldn't that be better? That would show actual effort. And I think that would be the proper way for Nintendo to do it. Maybe make them brother and sister.
What effort would that be? Does she need to reference her vagina? She would be a female character doing all the same shit Link does, no special effort needs to be made because it's a female.
The mental hoops people jump through to convince themselves that this is a good idea are a marvel to behold. It's threads like this that make me thankful for Nintendo's conservative approach regarding game design, and their habit of not fixing what isn't broken.
With that being said, I can't wait to see people complaining about the lack of a female Link option when this game gets released. Nevermind the fact that none of the previous games did.
They could for example make them both work together. She would go to temple A, while Link is going to temple B. So that the player would be interested in replaying the game with the other character. The game could be about both characters and you could simply select one of them to play as (with different gameplay depending on who you select). Both characters could in fact play differently. There are quite a few games that did something like this. Hell in Hyrule Warriors every character plays differently.
They could even create a game, where you play as both characters "at the same time". Somewhat like Broken Sword Director's Cut. That would be interesting and would also take effort. Something that I would expect from Nintendo and not some silly "search and replace".
They could for example make them both work together. She would go to temple A, while Link is going to temple B. So that the player would be interested in replaying the game with the other character. The game could be about both characters and you could simply select one of them to play as (with different gameplay depending on who you select). Both characters could in fact play differently. There are quite a few games that did something like this. Hell in Hyrule Warriors every character plays differently.
They could even create a game, where you play as both characters. Somewhat like Broken Sword Director's Cut. That would be interesting and would also take effort. Something that I would expect from Nintendo and not some silly "search and replace".
But why would that be an issue? Why would that upset anybody? The point is that the gender is interchangeable because Link is not and has never been an actual character. He is an avatar. A female avatar who is otherwise exactly Link is just fine.
Bull. The various Links from OoT on have had character. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword especially. That doesn't mean the hero can't be female, but don't act like they've just been blank slates with no personality of their own.
Bull. The various Links from OoT on have had character. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword especially. That doesn't mean the hero can't be female, but don't act like they've just been blank slates with no personality of their own.
The only Link I can really attribute a personality is Toon Link in WW because he's much more "animated". Maybe Skyward Sword had some, but I figure that was more just smiling sorta when Zelda appeared.
Otherwise he's more of the "compliant mute hero" to me.
It would be cool, and i think Nintendo will experiment on making Link a girl someday, but I dont think its as easy as some people say.
It doesnt matter what Miyamoto said fifteen years ago, Link is a character, almost the same way as Mario, with a distinctive look and role (young boy, pointy hears, green hat, blonde) even the story is written with consideration of his gender, like all the Zelda love teasing,Zelda was never about customizing your character, now, its not too hard, Link is enough of a bland and generic character for it to work, but,introducing something like that could change most of the advertising, dialogue, it would show both Links when before it was a clear image.also, some of the discussion here started with misinterpreting Aonumas comments, honestly, im not sure if it would be as demanded if Link looked a bit more, masculine. wich is...unfortunate,kind of messy, many of the comments were along the lines of "But Link already looks effeminate! just put him some boobies and its done! silly Nintendo"
Personally I would prefer if a game was dedicated to a female Link instead,or even other character.
I wouldn't mind at all, but I don't think I'd be able to identify with the character in the same way as I always have because for the most part Link looks just like me. Ever since I was a kid, I've played Zelda games starring a character named Link who looks like he could easily be a videogame representation of myself and I think I have a special bond with that character because of that. I could imagine that it's me on the screen doing those things.
And now I'm thinking how unfortunate it is that people who don't look like me haven't ever had the chance to experience that while playing Zelda. And now I've convinced myself they should let us create our character at the start of the next game.
The only Link I can really attribute a personality is Toon Link in WW because he's much more "animated". Maybe Skyward Sword had some, but I figure that was more just smiling sorta when Zelda appeared.
Otherwise he's more of the "compliant mute hero" to me.
OoT Link is the boy without a fairy: a hylian raised by Kokiri and teased for being different. He shows more personality in Majora's Mask which deals a lot more with emotional states and is about his personal quest to find a missing friend.
Wind Waker Link starts out as a timid young boy who reluctantly sets out on an adventure because his sister has been kidnapped and grows into a confident hero. When he finally does rescue his sister he continues on to try to stop Ganondorf without even questioning it.
Spirit Tracks has Link working to be a train conductor and he's roped into a hero's quest by Zelda and Angean. He shows about as much personality as Wind Waker's Link, but the story is less focused on his character develop and more on Zelda's. Still, both characters grow from reluctant heroes to fully confident heroes.
Twilight Princess spends way too much time setting up Link's normal life and his relationships with various people in his village; especially the children and his girlfriend. Throughout the game Link shows various emotional reactions to what happens to the world and other characters. Again this Link sets off on a personal quest to save his friends but continues onward to try to help Midna and free the kingdom from Zant's control.
Skyward Sword puts a lot of investment into Link's romance with Zelda. The entire plot of the game hinges on how his emotional attachment to Zelda is manipulated. Though this Link similarly starts out on a personal quest and ends up saving the world, it stays personal the whole way through because Zelda's involvement in ubiquitous.
These aren't just blank avatars. They are characters with histories, relationships, and emotions.
This reminds me of Indiana Jones.
Same thing. Distinctive look (hat, leather jacket, whip, male, young Harrison Ford (not the flipping old one).
Or let's go further. Lara Croft (typical Tomb Raider "sexy" outfit wielding dual pistols, hot pants, female, doing things for personal enjoyment, doing her thing).
In all of those cases it's always about a certain image. About the idea of a character. Being awesome. Going onto adventures.
and being able to be a mass murderer, killing people left and right
.
Has anyone asked for a simple gender swap in Tomb Raider? I mean it would be possible, right? (and no, I don't mean Nathan Drake, I mean just changing the Lara Croft model a bit to make it male and keeping everything else). Or a simple gender swap in Uncharted? Or a female Indiana Jones? No? Why not?
People accept those "characters", see them as "characters", although the games/movies are not about the actual characters. If they would be, then a game/movie with let's say a 90 year old Nathan Drake in a retirement home thinking about life itself would work. But it wouldn't. Because Uncharted is about shooting people in the head as that attractive smug face smart-ass guy
, that never goes to jail for being an insane mass murderer
. It's not some complicated character piece, that's telling the life of the person, that is Nathan Drake. Or Indiana Jones. Or Lara Croft.
And that's actually fine.
Link is somewhat like that. (green tunic, pointy hat, blonde male, young, chicken).
As soon as I see this photo:
...I'm seeing Link. I'm seeing that character turning around from the ground and being a blonde young male, because that is Link. That's the image of Link.
I wouldn't mind since I always wanted to play as Zelda. Have they ever gave an explanation on why there isn't a game where she is the main playable character? During any period in history where she isn't being kidnapped or there isn't an evil being trying to destroy the world, like a neighbor kingdom trying to invade Hyrule or something?
I wouldn't mind since I always wanted to play as Zelda. Have they ever gave an explanation on why there isn't a game where she is the main playable character? During any period in history where she isn't being kidnapped or there isn't an evil being trying to destroy the world, like a neighbor kingdom trying to invade Hyrule or something?
To be honest, not only does a Zelda only game work better in the lore, I think all around it'd be more accepted than changing Link, though I think the all around better idea is something like 3D World.
This reminds me of Indiana Jones.
Same thing. Distinctive look (hat, leather jacket, whip, male, young Harrison Ford (not the flipping old one).
Or let's go further. Lara Croft (typical Tomb Raider "sexy" outfit wielding dual pistols, hot pants, female, doing things for personal enjoyment, doing her thing).
In all of those cases it's always about a certain image. About the idea of a character. Being awesome. Going onto adventures.
and being able to be a mass murderer, killing people left and right
.
Has anyone asked for a simple gender swap in Tomb Raider? I mean it would be possible, right? (and no, I don't mean Nathan Drake, I mean just changing the Lara Croft model a bit to make it male and keeping everything else). Or a simple gender swap in Uncharted? Or a female Indiana Jones? No? Why not?
People accept those "characters", see them as "characters", although the games/movies are not about the actual characters. If they would be, then a game/movie with let's say a 90 year old Nathan Drake in a retirement home thinking about life itself would work. But it wouldn't. Because Uncharted is about shooting people in the head as that attractive smug face smart-ass guy
, that never goes to jail for being an insane mass murderer
. It's not some complicated character piece, that's telling the life of the person, that is Nathan Drake. Or Indiana Jones. Or Lara Croft.
And that's actually fine.
Link is somewhat like that. (green tunic, pointy hat, blonde male, young, chicken).
...I'm seeing Link. I'm seeing that character turning around from the ground and being a blonde young male, because that is Link. That's the image of Link.
Do you really not see the difference between those characters, who have things like dialogue and consistent continuity, and a mute archetype who is a different character in (almost) every game? The only way Indiana Jones or Nathan Drake become female without rebooting continuity is if they have gender reassignment surgery, which has a huge amount of narrative and character implications.
OoT Link is the boy without a fairy: a hylian raised by Kokiri and teased for being different. He shows more personality in Majora's Mask which deals a lot more with emotional states and is about his personal quest to find a missing friend.
Wind Waker Link starts out as a timid young boy who reluctantly sets out on an adventure because his sister has been kidnapped and grows into a confident hero. When he finally does rescue his sister he continues on to try to stop Ganondorf without even questioning it.
Spirit Tracks has Link working to be a train conductor and he's roped into a hero's quest by Zelda and Angean. He shows about as much personality as Wind Waker's Link, but the story is less focused on his character develop and more on Zelda's. Still, both characters grow from reluctant heroes to fully confident heroes.
Twilight Princess spends way too much time setting up Link's normal life and his relationships with various people in his village; especially the children and his girlfriend. Throughout the game Link shows various emotional reactions to what happens to the world and other characters. Again this Link sets off on a personal quest to save his friends but continues onward to try to help Midna and free the kingdom from Zant's control.
Skyward Sword puts a lot of investment into Link's romance with Zelda. The entire plot of the game hinges on how his emotional attachment to Zelda is manipulated. Though this Link similarly starts out on a personal quest and ends up saving the world, it stays personal the whole way through because Zelda's involvement in ubiquitous.
These aren't just blank avatars. They are characters with histories, relationships, and emotions.
Sometimes I wonder if people who call Link a blank avatar really play The Legend of Zelda games or ignore everything that happens just to prove a point.
The only Link I can really attribute a personality is Toon Link in WW because he's much more "animated". Maybe Skyward Sword had some, but I figure that was more just smiling sorta when Zelda appeared.
Otherwise he's more of the "compliant mute hero" to me.
Just because you view him that way doesn't mean everyone does. To a lot of people link is one of their favorite characters in gaming. Not because "hes an avatar" but because of who he is. The excuse that hes an avatar so its ok to change him is such flimsy reasoning. As far as people saying they don't see a downside to this. Did you even play Skyward sword? Did you not pay attention to the romance plot between Zelda and Link. Would this mean that in future games where you can be a boy or girl Link that they would never have a love subplot again? Or would Zelda be bi? Do you think people are simply going to accept this change and not be upset? People are still mad to this day about Raiden starring in metal gear solid 2. Would the story now be forced to be written for both male and female? Or if its just a female link for the next game will people be satisfied with that? Of course not because then people are going to say "well you made link a girl in this game lets keep it that way". So what happens to the original link? Would he be put on the backburner and Nintendo would start advertising femlink? Most likely not because, you know, Links one of Nintendos and gaming in generals iconic character. I bet most people who see femlink will think its some kind of dlc option. Oh you don't follow the lore? well Link can be a girl now enjoy. Yea I'm sure people would take that well. So basically you create femlink and fans will most likely hate her. Nintendo would have to take a risk on whether to advertise her or not while hiding boy link for a while because they're trying to advertise the newest game. Or you can have thetwo different gendered option and then be forced to write the game for both genders. Yea that doesn't sound like a small change with no chance of risk.
Basically, in one game, the Link you're playing as would be a Gerudo teenaged girl growing up in Gerudo Valley.
For me, this would be pretty great. For one, it gives players a new perspective of the world of Hyrule, and offers the ability for Link to have a different kind of upbringing. Not only that, but it would be a great way to introduce new gameplay and weapons, as Link's physical capabilities and weapon style would be vastly different.
Maybe they should allow you to change the appearance of the hero? They should allow for this seeing they will never allow VA's... Why not allow for character customization and in the main promotional art keep the traditional looking character?
...I'm seeing Link. I'm seeing that character turning around from the ground and being a blonde young male, because that is Link. That's the image of Link.
That person could be a female. Actually, a fair amount of the Link cosplay out there is by women.
I find it odd that people insist on Link's masculinity being so essential to the games when there are so many characters and NPCs in that universe who are clearly intended to be more masculine.
That person could be a female. Actually, a fair amount of the Link cosplay out there is by women.
I find it odd that people insist on Link's masculinity being so essential to the games when there are so many characters and NPCs in that universe who are clearly intended to be more masculine.
That person could be female. Just like a picture of a female cosplaying Mario could be female.However, If Link has an overarching design no different than any other character than guess what? Don't change him.
The point is that the "character" is the green tunic and the role in the game, not the person...but even the character model they often go with is rather androgynous, to the point where men and women can pretend to be Link pretty easily.
The point is that the "character" is the green tunic and the role in the game, not the person...but even the character model they often go with is rather androgynous, to the point where men and women can pretend to be Link pretty easily.
Actually there are instances in which he's shown to be masculine, hell I'm pretty sure you can see Link's muscles under his tunic in TP. He just happens to be a bit bish because he's a male anime teenage character.
I wouldn't mind since I always wanted to play as Zelda. Have they ever gave an explanation on why there isn't a game where she is the main playable character? During any period in history where she isn't being kidnapped or there isn't an evil being trying to destroy the world, like a neighbor kingdom trying to invade Hyrule or something?
While they haven't it's likely due to Nintendo's gameplay first philosophy. A Zelda as the lead game probably wouldn't be called the Legend of Zelda but something else because LoZ is reserved for Link games, a bit like how Mario and Yoshi have their own separate titles despite being in the same universe; you understand how the game plays based on the tile.
I think they've been trying to make Zelda a stronger character in more recent titles so making her the lead wouldn't be too shocking now as it could have been say in the 90s.
But if I was a betting man I'd guess no Legend of Zelda titled game will star Zelda, they'd give the game a different title to differentiate it.
I'm interested in seeing something like that, but I think one of the charm points of this particular franchise is that fact that it's called 'Legend of Zelda' but Zelda is not the main character. She's not the protagonist. But if you ask me what that is, I don’t know. I can't really explain it. Maybe if she's the main character, then maybe the title needs to change.
Please, name or show one post that has explicitly said "Keep girls out of Zelda.". Not a post that talks about preferring male Link, a real, honest to god post that essentially says "I never want to play as a woman and never should have to." I really, really, REALLY want to see what you can find now, since you seem to think posting image macros is a good rebuttal or discussion point.
The point is that the "character" is the green tunic and the role in the game, not the person...but even the character model they often go with is rather androgynous, to the point where men and women can pretend to be Link pretty easily.
Wich is kinda weird, as Link was never female.i dont think he was ever considered a girl by its creators,
Im not saying this would ruin the complexity or sanctity of its "character", but Link has more or less maintained a consistent look over the years, he has never been a customizable character, or the "Avatar" of the player,some parts of the dialogue are even written with his gender in mind.
Im not against it, it could work, its just not as easy as some say it is.
but some comments are like "he looks like a girl, give him boobs and its done!"
Then the strawman comments of all people that disagree being misogynist.
And a few even wanting Zelda to be male too! now that is silly
Bullshit.
Nobody here is saying that a girl couldn't be the main character of the game but simply that Link shouldn't be the female main character of the game, that's a very big difference.
Actually there are instances in which he's shown to be masculine, hell I'm pretty sure you can see Link's muscles under his tunic in TP. He just happens to be a bit bish because he's a male anime teenage character.
Women have muscles. Link being physically slight and using courage and wits to succeed is a good example of how a female character could fill the archetype.
Please, name or show one post that has explicitly said "Keep girls out of Zelda.". Not a post that talks about preferring male Link, a real, honest to god post that essentially says "I never want to play as a woman and never should have to." I really, really, REALLY want to see what you can find now, since you seem to think posting image macros is a good rebuttal or discussion point.
I know a lot of the posters in this thread seem to think that if they support having a playable Zelda or a different female character then there shouldn't be any concerns about their view that Link should always be a white male, but it's not the case. If you (speaking broadly here) want people to think your opposition to a non white male Link is anything other than a reactionary defence of the status quo then you need to explain how Link being a white male is integral to the design. Otherwise the argument is just begging the question. "Link should always be a white male because Link should always be a white male." "Link should always be a white male because Link has always been a white male." "Link should always be a white male because I like Link always being a white male."
Women have muscles. Link being physically slight and using courage and wits to succeed is a good example of how a female character could fill the archetype.
The point is that the "character" is the green tunic and the role in the game, not the person...but even the character model they often go with is rather androgynous, to the point where men and women can pretend to be Link pretty easily.
The character isn't the green tunic and the role. The legend of zelda are games about Ganon/zelda/link with ganon trying to get the triforce and link trying to stop him. If you asked anyone to describe these games those 3 names would pop up. No ones going to refer to link as "the protagonist" or the "avatar" just because you play as him. Are you telling me that in skyward sword the love story between Link and Zelda were actually about you and zelda? That Groose was your bully? No because those things are predetermined parts of the story that happen to Link. Just because you play as him and are supposed to relate to him doesn't make Link you. He's nothing like the warden or shepherd in bioware games.
I know a lot of the posters in this thread seem to think that if they support having a playable Zelda or a different female character then there shouldn't be any concerns about their view that Link should always be a white male, but it's not the case. If you (speaking broadly here) want people to think your opposition to a non white male Link is anything other than a reactionary defence of the status quo then you need to explain how Link being a white male is integral to the design. Otherwise the argument is just begging the question. "Link should always be a white male because Link should always be a white male." "Link should always be a white male because Link has always been a white male." "Link should always be a white male because I like Link always being a white male."
Schreier: But when you look at Link, you see a certain type of person—you see a male character... There was a case I remember where a father coded Legend of Zelda and made it so you could play as a woman because his daughter wanted to feel like she was really represented in the game. Mr. Aonuma, have you ever thought about that, and whether it'd be more inclusive to female players if they could play as someone of their own gender?
Aonuma: Is it that simple—that creating a female character means bringing more female users into the world?
Schreier: I guess what I mean is, when I'm playing and I see a man—in response to what you said about Link being a representation for the player, and the player being the main character—when a man is playing, he can feel more represented by the player character than a woman playing might.
Aonuma: So there are actually many female characters you can play as in Hyrule Warriors. We've introduced Midna, we've introduced Princess Zelda, and Impa as well. So if that connection needs to be there—I'm not saying that it does—let's see what happens with Hyrule Warriors, if as a result of there being more female protagonists, more women pick up the game, I'm all for it, so I've decided to see what happens with this title.
While they haven't it's likely due to Nintendo's gameplay first philosophy. A Zelda as the lead game probably wouldn't be called the Legend of Zelda but something else because LoZ is reserved for Link games, a bit like how Mario and Yoshi have their own separate titles despite being in the same universe; you understand how the game plays based on the tile.
I think they've been trying to make Zelda a stronger character in more recent titles so making her the lead wouldn't be too shocking now as it could have been say in the 90s.
But if I was a betting man I'd guess no Legend of Zelda titled game will star Zelda, they'd give the game a different title to differentiate it.
The character isn't the green tunic and the role. The legend of zelda are games about Ganon/zelda/link with ganon trying to get the triforce and link trying to stop him. If you asked anyone to describe these games those 3 names would pop up. No ones going to refer to link as "the protagonist" or the "avatar" just because you play as him. Are you telling me that in skyward sword the love story between Link and Zelda were actually about you and zelda? That Groose was your bully? No because those things are predetermined parts of the story that happen to Link. Just because you play as him and are supposed to relate to him doesn't make Link you. He's nothing like the warden or shepherd in bioware games.
I have nothing against Zelda being playable, I'm always for that. But I'm amazed people would rather see Zelda, a character with a speaking role, before Link --- a character who is meant to represent the player. In effect I agree here:
Women have muscles. Link being physically slight and using courage and wits to succeed is a good example of how a female character could fill the archetype.
I know a lot of the posters in this thread seem to think that if they support having a playable Zelda or a different female character then there shouldn't be any concerns about their view that Link should always be a white male, but it's not the case. If you (speaking broadly here) want people to think your opposition to a non white male Link is anything other than a reactionary defence of the status quo then you need to explain how Link being a white male is integral to the design. Otherwise the argument is just begging the question. "Link should always be a white male because Link should always be a white male." "Link should always be a white male because Link has always been a white male." "Link should always be a white male because I like Link always being a white male."
