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[Astral Dog]

At this point, i dont see Link as a connection to the player, i doubt its creators see it as a simple "Avatar" either, he is part of the image and advertising.

There is some good points of discussion to be had, not necessarily about turning him into a woman, but what kind of character he is. he is unique, very similar to Mario, but always changing appareances.

And i could argue he is outdated, at his point he is like that because its much,much easier to write and its "expected", he is bland ,iconic, has an especific role.

before even changing his sex or race, why not try a few lines of dialogue? why not make him more snarky? it would be cool to ditch the hat and green for something else, make him with an interesting backstory even something simple like living in the town or having favorite things making sad/angry faces when he has to wear or drink something he doesnt like or just saying it! "this smells funny"or "i rather drink a blue potion", maybe instead of lettin Groose be an asshole to someone, he would want to put him in its place, or show concern about someone that is not Zelda, change his relationship with Zelda, etc. play with the "character" a little.

I think that would be interesting.

 

[zeldablue]

Well they almost did.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-08-13-hyrule-warriors-had-designs-for-a-female-link

I have nothing against Zelda being playable, I'm always for that. But I'm amazed people would rather see Zelda, a character with a speaking role, before Link --- a character who is meant to represent the player. In effect I agree here:


Ok.

Zelda could be silent.

It could be like Earthbound where the player character is always muted. Zelda has way more flexibility as a playable character anyways. Why would I want to waste being female on...the same stuff that Link already does in every game? But yeah, keep Link similar because he's a trademark character.

If they're going to mix it up, then mix it up. I don't just want Link with boobs.

 

[Mango The Magician]

At this point, i dont see Link as a connection to the player, i doubt its creators see it as a simple "Avatar" either, he is part of the image and advertising.

There is some good points of discussion to be had, not necessarily about turning him into a woman, but what kind of character he is. he is unique, very similar to Mario, but always changing appareances.

And i could argue he is outdated, at his point he is like that because its much,much easier to write and its "expected", he is bland ,iconic, has an especific role.

before even changing his sex or race, why not try a few lines of dialogue? why not make him more snarky? it would be cool to ditch the hat and green for something else, make him with an interesting backstory even something simple like living in the town or having favorite things making sad/angry faces when he has to wear or drink something he doesnt like or just saying it! "this smells funny"or "i rather drink a blue potion", change a little his relationship with Zelda, etc. play with the "character" a little.

I think that would be interesting.

To be perfectly honest, he's not always changing apperrances and I'd prefer that they minimize that even further, as there's not even a precedent to say his must get a new design with a new game. So all in all, much like Mario, I'd prefer that his design remain fairly consistent, so I don't really think I'm open to the idea of him ditching the tunic or hat. However, as for him becoming more expressive, I'd like that, and the face thing has already been experimented with, not sure if speaking however is a good jump considering what happened to Samus. In short, I think the series would benefit if they just settle with one design for Link and Zelda and then just let that change slightly depending on the art style, basically what they've already done but take it further.

 

[blankempathy]

What if Ganon went after Link first, capturing and locking him in a dungeon, could Zelda be the one who saves the kingdom?

Sure if you want to do it ala wand of ghamelon...

 

[checkeredknight]

Basically, in one game, the Link you're playing as would be a Gerudo teenaged girl growing up in Gerudo Valley.

Sure, why not. I'd be up for them doing something different.

I'd still rather have that fake Zelda title where you play as a guy who only THINKS he is the hero of time in a world over-run by evil. I'd empathetise more with a character that ultimately fails, but trys his hardest to achieve his goals and save the world. It sounded so cool.

 

[Astral Dog]

To be perfectly honest, he's not always changing apperrances and I'd prefer that they minimize that even further, as there's not even a precedent to say his must get a new design with a new game. So all in all, much like Mario, I'd prefer that his design remain fairly consistent, so I don't really think I'm open to the idea of him ditching the tunic or hat. However, as for him becoming more expressive, I'd like that, and the face thing has already been experimented with, not sure if speaking however is a good jump considering what happened to Samus. In short, I think the series would benefit if they just settle with one design for Link and Zelda and then just let that change slightly depending on the art style, basically what they've already done but take it further.

It would be different to Samus, he would still be the silent guy, but with a line here and there, that part of ditching the green hat was for a while, or maybe changing it a little.
give him more personality, instead of letting Groose be an asshole to someone, he would WANT to put him in is place.
Kinda what they were doing with Wind Waker, but much more expresive.

 

[Mango The Magician]

It would be different to Samus, he would still be the silent guy, but with a line here and there, that part of ditching the green hat was for a while, or maybe changing it a little.
give him more personality, instead of letting Groose be an asshole to someone, he would WANT to put him in is place.
Kinda what they were doing with Wind Waker, but much more expresive.

Can't necessary agree with the tunic and hat part, but I guess making him more expressive wouldn't hurt, would kinda hope that it's something that's applied to him in a broad sense though, he never really acts 'out of character' in any game, so so long as it's a broad thing, I don't think I'd mind it. Have to be careful with quips though. *points to avatar*

 

[DizzyCrow]

Sure if you want to do it ala wand of ghamelon...

Shit, I didn't played these Zelda's.

 

[Astral Dog]

Sure, why not. I'd be up for them doing something different.

I'd still rather have that fake Zelda title where you play as a guy who only THINKS he is the hero of time in a world over-run by evil. I'd empathetise more with a character that ultimately fails, but trys his hardest to achieve his goals and save the world. It sounded so cool.

Abso-fucking-lutely. It'd be the most exciting thing to happen to the franchise in years.

(That is, of course, assuming the gameplay has some radical changes as well. After Skyward Sword I'm pretty much done with the Zelda Formula.)

They would need to use the Gerudo again, or want to use them
Changing something like that for the sake of change would be a bit too far, imo.
Its not changing just the sex, or backstory, but also race,motivations(!) im not even sure the story supports that, as the hylians are the closest to the Gods, and he is a hylian reborn.

Link, thinking? that would be nice, but they wont use the hero of time story, or flood,again,the wholepoint is that he was not even present.

 

[petethepanda]

Abso-fucking-lutely. It'd be the most exciting thing to happen to the franchise in years.

(That is, of course, assuming the gameplay has some radical changes as well. After Skyward Sword I'm pretty much done with the Zelda Formula.)

Edit: Oh, and while we're at it, #teamvoicedlink. It's 2014.

 

[blankempathy]

Abso-fucking-lutely. It'd be the most exciting thing to happen to the franchise in years.

(That is, of course, assuming the gameplay has some radical changes as well. After Skyward Sword I'm pretty much done with the Zelda Formula.)

Edit: Oh, and while we're at it, #teamvoicedlink. It's 2014.

Then why do you even care for the franchise? There are so many other games out there yet you want to change one to fit your own personal taste.

 

[zeldablue]

Then why do you even care for the franchise? There are so many other games out there yet you want to change one to fit your own personal taste.

The last Zelda game that stepped away from Zelda and/or the Triforce came out in 2000. The series could definitely mix things up.

 

[Dice//]

Then why do you even care for the franchise? There are so many other games out there yet you want to change one to fit your own personal taste.

Dude... 30 years. 30 YEARS. And you don't want ANY WHICH PART of the DONE-BEFORE formula to change?
Change is inevitable, the development team will get bored some day. Many posts have sympathized, even if not a Fem-Link or whatever, then some changes being made to the "basic Zelda formula" (however you want to interpret that). You can't keep making the same basic story without at least losing some people along the way, and in my most harsh opinion (and not even about the alternate playable Links), I think such traditional attitudes will stifle and kill the series beyond whatever innovation that happens from 'moving on up' what console the game is on.

One of the bigger surprise fan favourites, it seems by word of mouth, if not OoT then Majora's Mask, a title that take a wiiide step away from the traditional comfort zone of the series; and I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

[Mango The Magician]

The last Zelda game that stepped away from Zelda and/or the Triforce came out in 2000. The series could definitely mix things up.

That mix up definitely shouldn't be characters though, not that it matters much as there isn't really a reason to assume that a character being changed would facilitate a change in gameplay.

 

[Astral Dog]

The last Zelda game that stepped away from Zelda and/or the Triforce came out in 2000. The series could definitely mix things up.

Many things could be mixed up, but, a Gerudo girl? they would need to use the Gerudos again,or want to

You could ask for a true avatar character like on wrpgs where you choose race, gender, class, only with the green hat as a similarity.

That would not be "Zelda" to me, but...it could work.

Im not against changing the triforce story either, like Majoras Mask, but thats different.

 

[zeldablue]

See, in my mind, I would want Link to be the constant and for the world, characters, story and mechanics to switch up hardcore.

But it seems as though others want the same game but with a different looking character. I always saw Link as the constant that strung the series together. He's the "link" to the new world that I'm exploring. I wouldn't be happy to see him unrecognizable.

I hate character creators. I'd skip the game if it had that.

 

[Astral Dog]

See, in my mind, I would want Link to be the constant and for the world, characters, story and mechanics to switch up hardcore.

But it seems as though others want the same game but with a different looking character. I always saw Link as the constant that strung the series together.

I hate character creators. I'd skip the game if it had that.

Exactly, change the structure of the dungeons, get rid of the triforce and Hyrule for a time, put in a new antagonist, control other characters for awhile, more robots,give Link more personality even etc.

But its always the character :/

 

[Dice//]

Exactly, change the structure of the dungeons, get rid of the triforce and Hyrule for a time, put in a new antagonist, give Link more personality even etc.

But its always the character :/

Not like the Wii U game is off to a good start either though (for the record, I agree with Zeldablue or *anything* that would result in changes to the series; that picture on page 1 got my panties wet)
(The only thing that looks different is from the "Zelda-norm" is maybe the mech-like enemy and light-arrows.... which I'm hoping steers away from the "powerful, but now extinct, ancient civilization" trope)

 

[zeldablue]

Not like the Wii U game is off to a good start either though
(beyond maybe mech enemy and light-arrows.... which I'm hoping steers away from the "powerful, now extinct, ancient civilization" trope)

Yeah...I'm getting SS part II vibes and it's upsetting me. I don't want Zelda with robot flavoring.

A Zelda game where you had a team of characters would be awesome though. Playing as a Sheikah or Gerudo would be awesome. But then again...we just got Hyrule Warriors. :\

 

[Mango The Magician]

See, in my mind, I would want Link to be the constant and for the world, characters, story and mechanics to switch up hardcore.

But it seems as though others want the same game but with a different looking character. I always saw Link as the constant that strung the series together. He's the "link" to the new world that I'm exploring. I wouldn't be happy to see him unrecognizable.

I hate character creators. I'd skip the game if it had that.

I can get behind the idea of the structure world, story, and even gameplay changing, I just feel the same way about Link as you do and I apply that feeling to all major Zelda characters who are a significant part of the series. So for example, I wouldn't want Zelda changed, but I don't mind if she skips a game or two, same with Ganon. As for everything else, I want them to explore new gameplay ideas and whatnot, but within the realm of keeping it Zelda as I feel the series isn't 100% as malleable as say Mario, so something outlandish like Zelda in space, I don't think would work. Also, I agree with both the notions that Link is a constant (really don't want his design changed like at all) and that character creators suck, however, I'm willing to take slight creation over just changing Link, which is asinine to me, I'd prefer neither though.

 

[Astral Dog]

its too early to judge Zelda U yet.
Im liking the new art direction, Skyward Sword was Twilight Princess 1.5 to me.
The new hardware can open more posibilities,i hope.

 

[blankempathy]

Dude... 30 years. 30 YEARS. And you don't want ANY WHICH PART of the DONE-BEFORE formula to change?
Change is inevitable, the development team will get bored some day. Many posts have sympathized, even if not a Fem-Link or whatever, then some changes being made to the "basic Zelda formula" (however you want to interpret that). You can't keep making the same basic story without at least losing some people along the way, and in my most harsh opinion (and not even about the alternate playable Links), I think such traditional attitudes will stifle and kill the series beyond whatever innovation that happens from 'moving on up' what console the game is on.

One of the bigger surprise fan favourites, it seems by word of mouth, if not OoT then Majora's Mask, a title that take a wiiide step away from the traditional comfort zone of the series; and I don't think that's a coincidence.

Innovation doesn't mean changing a character. Aside from that you're selectively responding to my posts.

 

[blankempathy]

The last Zelda game that stepped away from Zelda and/or the Triforce came out in 2000. The series could definitely mix things up.

It could and im not against it but how many games are like zelda?

 

[Fbh]

No.

Keep link as he is.

Make a new action adventure IP featuring a badass woman.

 

[Freshmaker]

It could and im not against it but how many games are like zelda?

Itt people want Nintendo to make dark souls for the wiiu. Call everyone who disagrees a woman hater.

 

[captainpat]

I baffled by the resistance to this idea. There are already a ton Zelda games were Link is a boy. I don't think one were link is a girl is gonna ruin anything.

 

[Mango The Magician]

I baffled by the resistance to this idea. There are already a ton Zelda games were Link is a boy. I don't think one were link is a girl is gonna ruin anything.

There's a reason why they're all dudes, and it's not just because.

I don't think the majority of people playing Zelda know why or even care.

Also it's fantasy, they can do what they want.

Most people playing Zelda most likely don't care for the lore at all, they just see characters that they like, and a significant portion of those people most likely wouldn't want one of those characters that they like changed. Furthermore, you're right in that they can do what they want, hell if they wanted they could reboot Mario in a gritty GTA style and have the reboot start off with Luigi being murdered, and that's just one of the many ridiculous ideas that they could utilize.

 

[captainpat]

There's a reason why they're all dudes, and it's not just because.

I don't think the majority of people playing Zelda know why or even care.

Also it's fantasy, they can do what they want.

 

[Dice//]

Itt people want Nintendo to make dark souls for the wiiu. Call everyone who disagrees a woman hater.

.

 

[Freshmaker]

.

What was that whole no girls allowed post for then? Just me hallucinating?

 

[Jburton]

Why would making link female make the playstyle different? Hell if you're going to do anything to shake it up make him the antagonist and not just change the gender.

I agree, I'm not even sure how the avatar being of a female form makes the experience any different either?

Its just a different texture map, its not like the fact Link is male has ever had any great impact upon the story, how Link interacts with the world or how it interacts with Link.

Samus could be a dude for all we know, the gender has zero impact upon the game.

Makes about as much difference as picking a female multiplayer skin in a fps.


If gender is so important, allow the user to pick between a female or male Link at the start and be done with it.

 

[blankempathy]

I agree, I'm not even sure how the avatar being of a female form makes the experience any different either?

Its just a different texture map, its not like the fact Link is male has ever had any great impact upon the story, how Link interacts with the world or how it interacts with Link.

Samus could be a dude for all we know, the gender has zero impact upon the game.

Makes about as much difference as picking a female multiplayer skin in a fps.


If gender is so important, allow the user to pick between a female or male Link at the start and be done with it.

So the interaction in skyward sword between zelda and link had no impact due to link being male?

 

[Dice//]

What was that whole no girls allowed post for then? Just me hallucinating?

I'm still marginally on topic even with that unlike "no girls allowed" picture (I knew people would hate it though heh x). You went on a tangent about Dark Souls and women-hating when I or anyone else said neither of those things.

I agree, I'm not even sure how the avatar being of a female form makes the experience any different either?

Its just a different texture map, its not like the fact Link is male has ever had any great impact upon the story, how Link interacts with the world or how it interacts with Link.

Samus could be a dude for all we know, the gender has zero impact upon the game.

Makes about as much difference as picking a female multiplayer skin in a fps.


If gender is so important, allow the user to pick between a female or male Link at the start and be done with it.

Oh it's been suggested. And very eloquently put dozens of times. Still not that easy for purists who must have a male avatar lead the show for the sake of tradition even though , as you say, Link's sex has very little to do with the game itself (besides whatever flirty eyes get gets from NPC women, which don't go anywhere anyways, or SS being the only good way the boy-girl scenario played out).

I'd love the choice myself (or of course, letting Zelda finally get her limelight). Everyone wins this way.

Really time is what's working against Link. He's been doing his thing for 30 years, and become "too established to change", while other 'faceless avatars' like the Villager, Pokemon Trainer, or the lead hero in Fire Emblem Awakening are "new enough" to customize.

I don't really see the Gerudo scenario as a Link to the Snitch pointed out in his first post, and as interesting as it might be. The side races in the Zelda series realllyyy get secondary treatment (probably another reason for MM getting the love it does though is that it involves these peripheral races in such a personal way).

So the interaction in skyward sword between zelda and link had no impact due to link being male?

Yaaay one example, you diid it.

Most series' do change and grow, and I think Zelda's will be inevitable down the road, be it through the player's gender or the very concept of "Hyrule" itself (maybe finally shedding its very Medieval look for something even just a BIT new or not so simply FOREST-VOLCANO-WATER worlds). It can't keep pitting Link vs. Ganondorf and this is often cited as a problem with a lot of the recent entries is that the formula and basic plot has become too 'samey', too obvious, and quite frankly, just kinda lazy writing.

 

[blankempathy]

I'm still marginally on topic even with that unlike "no girls allowed" picture (I knew people would hate it though heh x). You went on a tangent about Dark Souls and women-hating when I or anyone else said neither of those things.



Oh it's been suggested. And very eloquently put dozens of times. Still not that easy for purists who must have a male avatar lead the show for the sake of tradition even though , as you say, Link's sex has very little to do with the game itself (besides whatever flirty eyes get gets from NPC women, which don't go anywhere anyways, or SS being the only good way the boy-girl scenario played out).

I'd love the choice myself (or of course, letting Zelda finally get her limelight). Everyone wins this way.

Really time is what's working against Link. He's been doing his thing for 30 years, and become "too established to change", while other 'faceless avatars' like the Villager, Pokemon Trainer, or the lead hero in Fire Emblem Awakening are "new enough" to customize.

I don't really see the Gerudo scenario as a Link to the Snitch pointed out in his first post, and as interesting as it might be. The side races in the Zelda series realllyyy get secondary treatment (probably another reason for MM getting the love it does though is that it involves these peripheral races in such a personal way).



Yaaay one example, you diid it.

Most series' do change and grow, and I think Zelda's will be inevitable down the road, be it through the player's gender or the very concept of "Hyrule" itself (maybe finally shedding its very Medieval look for something even just a BIT new or not so simply FOREST-VOLCANO-WATER worlds). It can't keep pitting Link vs. Ganondorf and this is often cited as a problem with a lot of the recent entries is that the formula and basic plot has become too 'samey', too obvious, and quite frankly, just kinda lazy writing.

Oh look you responded to one of my posts. Even though I've listed many reasons on why you shouldn't change a character for the hell of it. Actually the recent problem in the last game was too much back tracking and the controls. At least that was the general consensus. If anything the gameplay mechanics should be improved on first. However adding a gender option does not accomplish that now does it?

 

[Dice//]

Oh look you responded to one of my posts. Even though I've listed many reasons on why you shouldn't change a character for the hell of it.

Even though, after over 30 pages worth of posts, it might make some people happy? A change they may want to see? Indeed, who's to say who's right; but with a series as old and long-standing as Zelda, I'd opt for change since, gimmicks aside, it's been very much the same title, which is simultaneously a charming idea, but a predictable and uncreative one (again, my last sentence having little to do with gender). As impressed as HELL I am with the E3 footage, and I will definitely strangle someone to break street date so I can get my hands on it, it looks a lot more like the same basic formula. Medieval world, blonde boy, and probably a Princess in there somewhere. It's early to judge, but I really, really want to be wrong that the basics of the game are changed a bit so it's not the basic Zelda-triad with a new coat of paint.

But just as easily as you say "why change a character for the hell of it", we say "why not?".

(And yeah, "why not" is indeed just as flimsy a reason as "for the hell of it", but assuming there's "reasons" therein).

 

[blankempathy]

Even though, after over 30 pages worth of posts, it might make some people happy? A change they may want to see? Indeed, who's to say who's right; but with a series as old and long-standing as Zelda, I'd opt for change since, gimmicks aside, it's been very much the same title, which is simultaneously a charming idea, but a predictable and uncreative one (again, my last sentence having little to do with gender). As impressed as HELL I am with the E3 footage, and I will definitely strangle someone to break street date so I can get my hands on it, it looks a lot more like the same basic formula. Medieval world, blonde boy, and probably a Princess in there somewhere. It's early to judge, but I really, really want to be wrong that the basics of the game are changed a bit so it's not the basic Zelda-triad with a new coat of paint.

But just as easily as you say "why change a character for the hell of it", we say "why not?".

(And yeah, "why not" is indeed just as flimsy a reason as "for the hell of it", but assuming there's "reasons" therein).

Oh I posted plenty of reasons why not but you ignored them. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140549674&postcount=1524

 

[Ninjimbo]

The last Zelda game that stepped away from Zelda and/or the Triforce came out in 2000. The series could definitely mix things up.

Spirit Tracks was an awesome game and it didn't come out in 2000.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

Do woman have defined adams apples, large thick eyebrows, and pecks?

Women have pectoral muscles (shortened to pecs, not pecks like a bird btw). Adam's Apples and large eyebrows are not consistent or important elements of Link's visual design. If you want to convince people that masculinity is essential to the Link archetype you need something beyond minor visual aspects; no-one is denying that previous Links have been male, they're just saying that the archetype isn't especially masculine. If Link was consistently built like a Gears of War character that would change things (to some extent - see female Thor).

Read any page on this thread and you will find your answer.

I've read most of this thread and have made numerous posts in it. I've yet to see an argument against a non white male Link that doesn't boil down to the fallacious examples I gave in the post you quoted. If you have any I've missed please point them out.

Link has always been a white male - Appeal to tradition.
Changing Link's gender and/or skin colour could lead to other changes to the design - Slippery slope fallacy.
Would you make Character X a man/woman? - False equivalence (between archetype and singular characters)/Red Herring
Link shouldn't be female because Link should be male (or Link should be a white male because Link should be a white male) - Begging the question/circular reasoning.
Link should be a white male because I like it that way and/or would feel uncomfortable without it - Mind projection fallacy.
Link would be being changed, lost or "sacrificed" - Hypostatising. Previous Links would be unchanged. Future Links could be white males. Even more inapplicable if different genders and skin colours for Link were optional.

Basically, the loose continuity and use of archetypal characters in the Zelda series leaves only one reason to not vary the protagonist's gender/skin colour (assuming here that the benefits of diversity in representation are accepted as a reason to do it): if the gender/skin colour is somehow essential to the archetype. I've given the example before in this thread of how the James Bond film series has loose continuity and reboots, yet would require significant change if the character was anything other than a white male. Conversely, the race/gender of the Master Chief aren't particularly important to the character, but the Halo series operates with a fairly strict continuity. Noble Six is canonically male, but Bungie had no problem letting players choose the character's gender when playing.

Additionally, on the "female player character is fine as long as it's not Link" issue. Firstly, although there have been mainline Zelda games without Zelda and/or without Ganon, Link has always been the playable character. Explicitly making a female playable character "not Link" has unfortunate implications along the the lines of "separate but equal", especially when there's no reason for the character to not be Link. Secondly, how do you determine that such a character is "not Link"? Let's say it's a girl who fits the archetype to a t: young, slim, courageous, green floppy hat and tunic etc... Is this character not a female Link if it's just her (official) name that's different? What if it's something like Linkette or some other obviously feminised version of Link? What if the game offers you a choice between playing the same character (as in same backstory, mutually exclusive, not siblings who both exist in the game world for example) as a girl or a boy and they're both called Link? What if the game offers you a choice and the names are different?

 

[Agnosia]

If it is for creative reasons, sure. If it is for politically correct reasons, no.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Women have pectoral muscles (shortened to pecs, not pecks like a bird btw). Adam's Apples and large eyebrows are not consistent or important elements of Link's visual design. If you want to convince people that masculinity is essential to the Link archetype you need something beyond minor visual aspects; no-one is denying that previous Links have been male, they're just saying that the archetype isn't especially masculine. If Link was consistently built like a Gears of War character that would change things (to some extent - see female Thor).

I've read most of this thread and have made numerous posts in it. I've yet to see an argument against a non white male Link that doesn't boil down to the fallacious examples I gave in the post you quoted. If you have any I've missed please point them out.

Link has always been a white male - Appeal to tradition.
Changing Link's gender and/or skin colour could lead to other changes to the design - Slippery slope fallacy.
Would you make Character X a man/woman? - False equivalence (between archetype and singular characters)/Red Herring
Link shouldn't be female because Link should be male (or Link should be a white male because Link should be a white male) - Begging the question/circular reasoning.
Link should be a white male because I like it that way and/or would feel uncomfortable without it - Mind projection fallacy.
Link would be being changed, lost or "sacrificed" - Hypostatising. Previous Links would be unchanged. Future Links could be white males. Even more inapplicable if different genders and skin colours for Link were optional.

Basically, the loose continuity and use of archetypal characters in the Zelda series leaves only one reason to not vary the protagonist's gender/skin colour (assuming here that the benefits of diversity in representation are accepted as a reason to do it): if the gender/skin colour is somehow essential to the archetype. I've given the example before in this thread of how the James Bond film series has loose continuity and reboots, yet would require significant change if the character was anything other than a white male. Conversely, the race/gender of the Master Chief aren't particularly important to the character, but the Halo series operates with a fairly strict continuity. Noble Six is canonically male, but Bungie had no problem letting players choose the character's gender when playing.

Additionally, on the "female player character is fine as long as it's not Link" issue. Firstly, although there have been mainline Zelda games without Zelda and/or without Ganon, Link has always been the playable character. Explicitly making a female playable character "not Link" has unfortunate implications along the the lines of "separate but equal", especially when there's no reason for the character to not be Link. Secondly, how do you determine that such a character is "not Link"? Let's say it's a girl who fits the archetype to a t: young, slim, courageous, green floppy hat and tunic etc... Is this character not a female Link if it's just her (official) name that's different? What if it's something like Linkette or some other obviously feminised version of Link? What if the game offers you a choice between playing the same character (as in same backstory, mutually exclusive, not siblings who both exist in the game world for example) as a girl or a boy and they're both called Link? What if the game offers you a choice and the names are different?

Dude, your whole point boils down to "it can happen by the lore, so it must happen!" And that's not anymore persuasive than someone saying that it can't happen because X, Nothing would stop Nintendo or any game company from doing anything to any of their characters, a female cheif could happen without need of a explanation, as would a female Mario, Link's not somehow any more likely or less of a significant change because the lore written for the series is a mess. I mean if we want to get technically here, Mario can be permanently killed off by the Mario lore, and Sonic and Eggman can get married by the Sonic lore; no one any there grandma are impressed or persuaded just because the Zelda lore says or doesn't say X.

 

[Karkador]

Oh I posted plenty of reasons why not but you ignored them. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140549674&postcount=1524

"Plenty of reasons" = "a lot of people don't like change", "the romantic relationship between Link and Zelda matters a lot" (it really doesn't), " here is an unrelated example about a different game where the main character actually talked and had a personality", "It would be hard to market a girl in a game"

Status Quo.

 

[Mango The Magician]

"Plenty of reasons" = "a lot of people don't like change", "the romantic relationship between Link and Zelda matters a lot" (it really doesn't), " here is an unrelated example about a different game where the main character actually talked and had a personality", "It would be hard to market a girl in a game"

Status Quo.

And you're reason? to continue to cling to the lore?

 

[Karkador]

And you're reason? to continue to cling to the lore?

The lore is nonsense

The reason is to make an interesting game again.

 

[Mango The Magician]

The lore is nonsense

The reason is to make an interesting game again.

And a change in gender is somehow gonna make it interesting? There's a billion and one different changes that would actually make the game interesting other than just changing an iconic character, 'because you can.'

 

[blankempathy]

"Plenty of reasons" = "a lot of people don't like change", "the romantic relationship between Link and Zelda matters a lot" (it really doesn't), " here is an unrelated example about a different game where the main character actually talked and had a personality", "It would be hard to market a girl in a game"

Status Quo.

The lore is nonsense

The reason is to make an interesting game again.

Thanks for your counter argument. It was really compelling. Somehow changing the gender makes a game more interesting. No reasoning how. It just does apparently.

 

[Karkador]

And a change in gender is somehow gonna make it interesting? There's a billion and one different changes that would actually make the game interesting other than just changing an iconic character, 'because you can.'

An iconic character that the game still asks you to name after so many years?

 

[blankempathy]

An iconic character that the game still asks you to name after so many years?

Oh was Cloud supposed to be an avatar character too? Squall?

 

[Mango The Magician]

An iconic character that the game still asks you to name after so many years?

I didn't realize that being able to rename a character made said character somehow less iconic or memorable, or erased said characters design or the 30 years behind it.

Oh was Cloud supposed to be an avatar character too? Squall?

Dude...how the hell did we do that? Are you a mind reader!

 

[Karkador]

Oh was Cloud supposed to be an avatar character too? Squall?

Yes, Cloud actually was an avatar.

As the FF series has progressed, they have done away with custom names, because we have Lightning and Balthier instead of Knight and Thief class.

 

[blankempathy]

Yes, Cloud actually was an avatar.

As the FF series has progressed, they have done away with custom names, because we have Lightning and Balthier instead of Knight and Thief class.

Really? comparing the warriors of light to cloud and squall? Or perhaps they have names locked because of gee I don't know, voice acting? I guess they didnt think calling everyone "him or her" was the best choice after final fantasy X.