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Wouldn't the PSN digital games suffer on PS4 now?

to the latter: fair point ducky. as raised earlier in this thread though, even if i wanted to point to some (weak) form of data arguing otherwise, i'd be presupposing that any large # of consumers for the next big PSN title were aware of the lack of support their games will see next gen. i don't really know how to argue around that, where we are currently.
 
Why do people still differentiate between digital and physical copies? There is absolutely no difference when it comes to backwards compatibility.
 
the replies in this thread from so many people disgust me. How little people actually value the money they've spent over the years on digital games. Because a game is cheap, I guess it has no value and is perfectly fine to just give up someday, even though when I was a kid I spent almost nothing on certain NES games and still valued them just the same.

Fuck BC, I don't care about that, and I understand all the technical reasons that they can't do it for PS4, but seeing as how so many people don't care that their digital collection may disappear someday when support for the PS3...fucking boggles my mind.
 
I'll continue buying PSN and PS3 games as long as I find them quality to buy them. I bought a PS3 to play PS3 games. I'll buy a PS4 to buy PS4 games. I never really replay games, certainly not years later unless they come back 'into fashion' so to speak as an updated version. But then I'd have to rebuy it anyways. Would it be nice if old games did play? Yes but it's not a deal breaker. Most if the time I want new games. Once I'm finished with my old ones I move on. I've had my money's worth. I bought it, I enjoyed it, I moved on.

Why a machine you already own that will keep giving you value and new content, you'd rather not get the most out of and just stop buying stuff, is beyond common sense.
 
I think they would have enabled BC if it were easy. PS4 is just a different beast.

yup, that's what I assume as well. But then again, we all know that Sony isn't known for sane or customer-friendly decisions. That's why I'm so surprised at how great and user-friendly the PS4 seems to gonna be.
 
the replies in this thread from so many people disgust me. How little people actually value the money they've spent over the years on digital games. Because a game is cheap, I guess it has no value and is perfectly fine to just give up someday, even though when I was a kid I spent almost nothing on certain NES games and still valued them just the same.

Fuck BC, I don't care about that, and I understand all the technical reasons that they can't do it for PS4, but seeing as how so many people don't care that their digital collection may disappear someday when support for the PS3...fucking boggles my mind.

Most people's physical PS3 collections are going to be in the $4.99 bin at Gamestop in a year or two. The few people that do seriously care about archival purposes know to hunt down a hackable system and solve their own problems. There's very little middle ground; it's comparable to the suicide-by-battery issues carts have.

PS3 BC in particular has less buzz than PS2 BC because it's going to be near-identical rather than the guaranteed-quality upscale launch PS3s gave.
 
Is it Possible for PSN games to be designed on the OS layer like IOS games are? That way they are forward compatible with the OS even if hardware changes
 
The ps3 side may suffer but I'm still purchasing PS1 and PSP games. There's tons to choose from and it's not like I can play most(PSP) on my ps3 anyway so I put them on my vita.

I'm not super happy there's no BC but it's not a deal breaker.
 
$200 is what a PS4 will probably cost a year from now.

So basically smooshing a PS3 and PS4 into the same plastic case is super important to you? You could probably fake that with a big cardboard box and a fan.

In the earlier part of the earlier generation of the console yes it is "super important" to me. I'm not one who actually sell previous consoles for new ones but it does saves some shelf space and with current gen consoles not being the most reliable little things in the world it would of been an ease of mind if I could at least play older games on the newer consoles like I did when I first got PS2. When I got PS2 do you know what games I got with it for Christmas when I was younger? Orphan Scion of Sorcery and Pryzm. Ugh...

And risk the success and viability of the PS4 as a result? I'd rather not risk new games at the expense of a previous generation.

I would. It may be highly illogical but that really doesn't matter to me when I'm going to blow a large amount of cash.

I don't get why the gaming industry treats their older games in such a manner compared to any other medium. There is so much legal ways to indulge myself in movie and music classics without having to pop out a VHS or a 8 track player, but good luck with trying to play something like Panzer Dragoon Saga legally. And with this push towards DD, whats the point of sticking with a console when I get better DD service with PC? I see hella old games on Steam, whereas you wont see not one PS3 game on PS4 when it comes out.
 
no, i've said i wish a legacy model existed as an option but i realize why it's not feasible/highly desirable. i have an entire thread on why i think treating gaming as disposable entertainment is bad all around, this example aside - long story short, i think it's easier to make weird hardware choices like ken did (putting us in this spot) because both companies and some consumer attitudes allow it, if not foster it, by subscribing to a mentality that only the next thing matters/just keep the last system, even if the company (sony in this case) had 20 years of an excellent software library and several systems supporting it fully up to this point, hence my natural inclination to show unhappiness at that changing.

I don't disagree, and as a film history nerd it saddens me that we don't have folks like a Criterion for games.

And the whole iterative/remake the same shit forever plays into all that. The collective disrespect for the mediums history.

as a consumer, this will be the first playstation i (hypothetically) buy that disconnects me from several decades of prior purchases, and marries them to the unstable hardware of my troubled launch 60 GB. these concerns strike you as "bogus shit", really? awesome

Well I don't think its bogus (though I'm less concerned while there is new hardware to play the games on, and less concerned in the long term if there is a good emulation solution), I'm just resigned to the fact and I am understanding somewhat of Sonys position in terms of PS3/PS4 (I'm also aware of things like the Mac PowerPC/Intel transition as well as the DOS/Windows one). Hopefully with their choice of x86, the most stable architecture out there, we'll see a much better future in terms of this kind of stuff.
 
Personally i will stop buying full PSNtitles that are also released on Blu-ray, since at least i can gift those once i switch generations.
 
I don't disagree, and as a film history nerd it saddens me that we don't have folks like a Criterion for games.

And the whole iterative/remake the same shit forever plays into all that. The collective disrespect for the mediums history.

that's really an excellent example, in my mind - granted, film is obviously far older/respected but the mere fact a company seeks to find/reproduce movies of various significance while maintaining the highest level of authenticity speaks volumes. meanwhile, each gen that passes, we lose more & more titles to dead studios, licensing rights, source code issues etc. many here cry "emulation" and i do so love that option, but you can only expect so much from what are basically volunteer software engineers, its why scenes like Xbox 1 and DC (much less more obscure 32 bit stuff like CDI, 3DO etc) are basically dead now.

and again i'm not saying it's somehow sony's duty to carry that burden, nor would i ever say they should continue utilizing the cell for any such reason...just that it saddens me to see us hoping gakai allows use the very limited amount of re-purchased DD titles currently offered. i will likewise bust MS' balls if and when they abandon their last gen, and while Wii BC & VC are nice on the WU im none too pleased with losing my gamecube play there.

Well I don't think its bogus (though I'm less concerned while there is new hardware to play the games on, and less concerned in the long term if there is a good emulation solution), I'm just resigned to the fact and I am understanding somewhat of Sonys position in terms of PS3/PS4 (I'm also aware of things like the Mac PowerPC/Intel transition as well as the DOS/Windows one). Hopefully with their choice of x86, the most stable architecture out there, we'll see a much better future in terms of this kind of stuff.

true, and again my argument is largely academic, though i do think some here underestimate BC when it comes to both embracing the troubles of "ownership" with DD, and current consumer demands on other formats such as phones/tablets etc (your average consumer does not care, nor arguably should they, about architectural changes). i want to share your optimism for the future regarding sony embracing more standard hardware, i just hate seeing so many consumers - even here on a "core" board like GAF - all but celebrate this disconnect, based on little more than "LOL I NEVER PLAY OLD GAMES" and in some cases, straight corporate apologism.
 
I don't disagree, and as a film history nerd it saddens me that we don't have folks like a Criterion for games.

And the whole iterative/remake the same shit forever plays into all that. The collective disrespect for the mediums history.

It's interesting you mentioned Criterion, but back when Sega was releasing their Sega Ages games on PS2, there was a period of time where I regularly compared them with Criterion style releases. They were collections of classic Sega games, mostly from the 16-bit era and before, faithfully emulated/ported onto the PS2 with a ton of display options, resolutions, scanlines, etc. But that wasn't all. There was a ton of effort put into having every version of a game available - Japan, US, Europe. They also contained extra features like design documents, production artwork, manuals and covers from the various different releases, all in digital form. The physical packages were great too. The manuals were thick, and filled with commentary and retrospectives on the games from magazine editors and sometimes the original developers themselves.

But these releases didn't sell a ton, there wasn't a huge market for them, and it seemed that people were more than content with the sloppy releases on PSN and XBLA by Digital Eclipse complete with terrible upscale filters and so on. It clearly shows that the consumer base for games mostly don't care. If the people who buy the games don't care, why should the publishers? :(
 
I think that going with x86 this round is partly because they don't want to loose b/c anymore in the next generations. Buying anything from PSN for PS4 should be pretty safe, x86 isn't going anywhere and I think it's almost a given that PS5 will use x86 too which will make it b/c with PS4.

I do hope that they'll transfer key PS2 and PS3 titles to PS4 though. Don't want to loose Ico, GoWs, MGSs and others on PS4+. Also would probably buy all of them again for $10-20 if they release it on PS4 in 1080p this time.
 
Why do people still differentiate between digital and physical copies? There is absolutely no difference when it comes to backwards compatibility.

How do you sell a digital copy?

Some people like, discard their entire current generation library to be on the nextgen, others keep it because there's BC

No BC ->selling old games is an option -> cant sell psn games.
 
It's interesting you mentioned Criterion, but back when Sega was releasing their Sega Ages games on PS2, there was a period of time where I regularly compared them with Criterion style releases. They were collections of classic Sega games, mostly from the 16-bit era and before, faithfully emulated/ported onto the PS2 with a ton of display options, resolutions, scanlines, etc. But that wasn't all. There was a ton of effort put into having every version of a game available - Japan, US, Europe. They also contained extra features like design documents, production artwork, manuals and covers from the various different releases, all in digital form. The physical packages were great too. The manuals were thick, and filled with commentary and retrospectives on the games from magazine editors and sometimes the original developers themselves.

But these releases didn't sell a ton, there wasn't a huge market for them, and it seemed that people were more than content with the sloppy releases on PSN and XBLA by Digital Eclipse complete with terrible upscale filters and so on. It clearly shows that the consumer base for games mostly don't care. If the people who buy the games don't care, why should the publishers? :(

goddamn, this post simultaneously makes me wanna buy up the Sega AGES PS2 stuff & weep, didn't know they brought display options/artwork and document type stuff...i mean i was happy enough to see shit like Guardian Heroes not handled by Backbone, but damn.
 
How do you sell a digital copy?

Some people like, discard their entire current generation library to be on the nextgen, others keep it because there's BC

No BC ->selling old games is an option -> cant sell psn games.

That's not what I'm talking about. It's the expectation that because you bought a digital title, it should magically work on a new architecture. That is what underlies all the hubbub. The expectation of the modern consumer is that all their digital purchases will just magically follow them where they go. It is a dangerous mindset in my opinion because it encourages walled-garden approaches.
 
I think Shuhei Yoshida was quoted saying they're not sure how to handle Gaikai BC if you already own a game on a disc, so I'm sure they already know how to deal with games you've bought digitally, ie. let you play them for free over Gaikai BC.
 
most valid point here is actually "if they take down the servers, i can not redownload them". carrying the games around with you on an HDD is a possibility but a HDD doesnt last for ever. sure you can use your PS3 with a 500GB HDD as a PSN downloads tank and play everything from disc. When the day comes and your PS3 dies, you go out and buy a replacemtne, you cant carry over your old HDD since it gets formatted. so you have to keep a copy of the HDD on a external drive. too much hassle you dont have wirh discs ^-^

to me GaiKai is not really BC its just a form to play older games streamed to the box, actually anybox the service works on. that also means you can stream any game to the PS4(or any box again) which is stored on their systems. then again ^-^i am at their mercy.

i think many people arent attached to the "experience" any more so they dont care. its all about instant gratification instant access.

>>press button>>consume>>change game.

same for music, movies, books. people will spend their money on a download, play and forget about it. the way we enjoyed media changed.
 
goddamn, this post simultaneously makes me wanna buy up the Sega AGES PS2 stuff & weep, didn't know they brought display options/artwork and document type stuff...i mean i was happy enough to see shit like Guardian Heroes not handled by Backbone, but damn.

I really, really liked what they did with the later releases. I think a lot of long time gamers and collectors appreciate stuff like this, but we really seem to be in the minority. :/

http://ages.sega.jp/vol25/caption4.html
http://ages.sega.jp/vol25/secret.html

http://ages.sega.jp/vol29/caption5.html
http://ages.sega.jp/vol29/secret.html

http://ages.sega.jp/vol31/caption9.html

http://ages.sega.jp/vol33/caption5b.jpg
http://ages.sega.jp/vol33/secret.html

Not every single release had the same amount of extra features, because a lot of it depends on what was available to them and also what sort of content fits the release, but every single release from Vol25 onwards (there might be some good ones before that too, I'm not sure) was made with a ton of care. The Dynamite Deka release even came with a full virtual simulation of the Periscope cabinet: http://ages.sega.jp/vol26/caption4.html
 
It's had an unusual affect on me actually, I don't want to buy any PSN games on PS3 right now. I would have been buying Runner 2 day one, but now I don't think I'll bother. I was going to buy Demon's Souls today, but now I'll just get it on disc because I know it'll have no value to me this time next year.

I didn't expect to care at all. I don't really know exactly what impact it'll have on me when it comes to the PS4 however, I would imagine not at all, just due to the fact I'll be looking at an eight year commitment, I don't think I can effectively be concerned so far ahead. Also, it's actually more likely PS5 will play PS4 games, given the switch to a highly traditional architecture.
 
Bingo! You can bank on a very PC architecture for whatever future is left for home consoles, which means BC will be super easy to accomplish going forward.

Also, why is it a waste? You can still play all of those games you bought for the PS3, on the PS3! Novel thought I know. Just don't sell your PS3 if it means that much to you.

lol no
 
How do you sell a digital copy?

Some people like, discard their entire current generation library to be on the nextgen, others keep it because there's BC

No BC ->selling old games is an option -> cant sell psn games.
Well you can sell your full account, madly movement but it's an option.
 
Well I've stopped buying all ps3 software (retail and from psn) since the announcement, and only buying 360 stuff now (with the hope and expectation that MS is allowing our investment with their retail and xbla releases to follow onto the next Xbox).

You're going to be disappointed, I think. There has only been three home consoles that has backwards compatibility with all of the previous generation of games, and two of them is the Wii and the WiiU.
 
as a consumer, this will be the first playstation i (hypothetically) buy that disconnects me from several decades of prior purchases, and marries them to the unstable hardware of my troubled launch 60 GB. these concerns strike you as "bogus shit", really? awesome

PS2 boasted the feature and that gave them an edge over the competition.

PS3 did it and it was a detriment to add something to emulate the emotion engine on top of the cell at a loss to keep the trend going.

Gaikai will hopefully make it easier and possibly for that ease, this marriage of old games you bought for the PSone which worked on your beloved PS2, that worked seamlessly with the PS3, might end with PS4.

Uh oh, those purchases are now worthless! You (hypothetically) feel disconnected even though PS2 are still for sale and many launch 60 gb PS3s still work even if yours is now troubled!

Stop acting so entitled.

is it so hard to understand that some people need to sell their ps3 to buy a ps4 ?

To subsidies your next purchase, yes that has been discussed. Doesn't make your hoarding old generation games and not old generation consoles any more legitimate.

It cannot go both ways.
 
The same people arguing that PSN games shouldn't be expected to run on PS4 are probably the same people who cried in terror when they were told that it'll cost $1 to move VC games to the Wii U. Not *exactly* the same thing...but similar.
 
The same people arguing that PSN games shouldn't be expected to run on PS4 are probably the same people who cried in terror when they were told that it'll cost $1 to move VC games to the Wii U. Not *exactly* the same thing...but similar.

Don't make things up.
 
Is this about PSN content transfering from PS3 to PS4, or from PS4 to PS5? I understand it as the latter. No one know if the PS4 PSN content will be transferable to the PS5. But even if we did, i doubt it will have hardly any effect on the sales. I cant imagine that many are interested in a game early in the PS4 lifecycle for example, but then not buy it in case it wont work on the PS5 in 6-7 years.
 
But here's the weird part for me.. help me understand... doesn't that extend to physical PS3 discs too? They won't play either.

But PS3 discs can be sold off, and part (or all) of your purchase price recovered, if you can't play them anymore.
 
The same people arguing that PSN games shouldn't be expected to run on PS4 are probably the same people who cried in terror when they were told that it'll cost $1 to move VC games to the Wii U. Not *exactly* the same thing...but similar.
That is a pretty different senario in my opinion. Here Nintendo seemingly have a method to identify which VC games you bought on the Wii, yet they charges you money to move it from the Wii to the WiiU. This isnt rebuying the game, since once you do the transfer, it wont longer work on the Wii as far as i know. For it to be similar with PSN, it would be that it is possible to transfer certain PSN content from the PS3 to the PS4, but Sony would charge for it. But so far it isnt possible to transfer any PSN content over to the PS4.
 
I'm kind of in between. I'd be hesitant to get some games on PSN knowing that I couldn't play them on PS4. Having the discs isn't a problem since I can just sell them. However at the same time, if there's something I really want to play that's only on PSN, UI'll get it, PS4BC be damned

I want BC in that it would be a massive convenience, but it's not a dealbreaker.
 
Nope the Trophy Whore in me is happy

I'll have PS3 version, PS4 version, hopefully a Vita version

Triple Platinums for the same title *swoon*

If they ever get PSN BC through Gaikai for the PS4 would be a cherry on top

I'll continue gaming on PS3 (backlog + cheaper titles) + PS4 (new releases + cross-gen) + Vita (whatever it gets ; ;, give me content!)

Sony keeps getting my monies!
 
To subsidies your next purchase, yes that has been discussed. Doesn't make your hoarding old generation games and not old generation consoles any more legitimate.

It cannot go both ways.

Sells off old computer parts to subsidize purchasing of new rig. Games purchased on Steam still work. Oh, and I upgraded from Windows XP to Windows 7, for example.

Edit: BC is a big selling point for me, but feeling like I'm cut off if I need to make some space removes value from making a purchase. I don't think Sony is robbing me, but I think they're doing a poor job representing their brand when they don't make it easy to transfer previously purchased content to the next gen up. IIRC, they were pretty early in doing it with PSX - > PS2.
 
Stop acting so entitled.

i really want to agree to disagree, but this is the 2nd time ive heard this word used regarding BC, and it fully illustrates just how little grasp a (thankfully) minority of you have over that word. consumers wishing to enjoy prior purchases while supporting your current medium = entitled? corporate cheerleading/ballwashing at its finest.

To subsidies your next purchase, yes that has been discussed. Doesn't make your hoarding old generation games and not old generation consoles any more legitimate.

It cannot go both ways.

wow. now it's not "legitimate", despite, you know, all the times it has been - because it doesn't fit this particular instance.

PSX, PS2, PS3, tons of other consoles, PC, phones, tablets, etc - none of these are "legitimate" by this poor line of logic.
 
I don't get that logic at all. If you have the tools to use and download the game, why does another system matter in that initial purchase?

Does the PS3 stop working when PS4 drops??

It may have been naive of me, but I expected most of the games I purchased on PSN to be compatible with the PS4. It's the first generation where digital purchases really took hold and the idea of a PSN with releases for multiple consoles is confusing to me even if it shouldn't be. I'm going to assume all the current PSN stuff not compatible with the PS4 will be separated and hidden from the PS4 content. Kinda like how it is on the Vita.
 
Stop acting so entitled

This is hilarious. Now people are entitled to think their digital purchases on one platform should work like they do on every other platform. What if the PS4 sells gangbusters and Sony get over confident again and tries to do their own architecture again? Everyone is bending over and taking it and if everyone acts like its okay I don't see why Sony would ever implement proper digital platforms.
 
Now that people know psn games won't transfer then wouldn't the digital games suffer on ps4? They will not want to buy it because they know it won't transfer.

I'm wondering if that's the reason Microsoft is finally offering a decent sale on their Games on Demand? Get people to buy these games and spend some of those points before it's too late.
 
It may have been naive of me, but I expected most of the games I purchased on PSN to be compatible with the PS4.

this is, quite literally, only "naive" if you follow such twisted anti-logic from corporate apologists; literally every company developing their ecosystem naturally makes great strides to hook you in & keep you, by not allowing your purchases to migrate, they quite literally devalue you them and damage the tenuous relationship (and likewise fragile concept of "ownership") the already troubled and faith-based DD model on closed formats like consoles calls for.

i agree it would seem likely that early gakai efforts to maintain the most popular of PSN purchases would take priority, but again all the caveats made here by some would-be shareholders is just an elaborate way of trying to justify the current situation. It was one thing to feel my information on PSN wasn't entirely secure, i can't imagine very many consumers will share their optimism with this scenario, much less be overly concerned with the details of changing architecture.

This is hilarious. Now people are entitled to think their digital purchases on one platform should work like they do on every other platform. What if the PS4 sells gangbusters and Sony get over confident again and tries to do their own architecture again? Everyone is bending over and taking it and if everyone acts like its okay I don't see why Sony would ever implement proper digital platforms.

indeed - and why should they? if the anecdotal tales of this thread were to somehow be applied to a larger consumer base, it would seem there's a clear demographic that practically celebrates trading a consumer right for the ability to re-purchase only the most popular titles every gen or so.

there's a zelda joke in here, somewhere
 
Why do people expect that if one device has bc or whatever, that another device should do the same when the current company dropped said bc at one stage? (just because everyone else does it doesnt mean you should expect others to do it.. ) Also how well did Full BC ps3 sell back at launch, was it bad enough that not many people bought it due to how expensive it was and that people didnt buy it (for many reasons Price,no games) and that sony wouldnt want to take another loss again when they are already loosing money?
 
Why do people expect that if one device has bc or whatever, that another device should do the same when the current company dropped said bc at one stage? (just because everyone else does it doesnt mean you should expect others to do it.. ) Also how well did Full BC ps3 sell back at launch, was it bad enough that not many people bought it due to how expensive it was and that people didnt buy it (for many reasons Price,no games) and that sony wouldnt want to take another loss again when they are already loosing money?

Because every digital platform does. Every one but this one. (And maybe the xbox) Even backwards ass Nintendo got this right.
 
Then you simply should play GG on whatever system will allow you the pleasure.

Except I don't want to hook up my PS3 when I have a PS4 sitting right there that could play PS3 games, you know?

Really, the bigger kick in the balls is Sony is going to force people to REBUY their stuff they own on discs with their Gakai streaming service, I'm calling that now since they did that with the PSP->PSP2 transfer with the loss of the UMD in transition, but that was worse since most UMD's weren't on PSN.
 
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