• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Wouldn't the PSN digital games suffer on PS4 now?

Doesn't affect my buying habits a bit.
Like many said, I'll play my PS3 games on my PS3.

I am worried, though, that one day my PS3 will crap on me and then I'm fucked. my PS2 collection is quite useless now, but luckily we had HD remasters this gen.

Overall, I prefer the PS4 to be BC-less since I understand that software emulation is impossible, and I'd rather them to keep the price down for the success of the console. Not because I love Sony, but beacuse I want a PS4 in the market, and for that to happen, it needs to be profitable and they need to get it in people's homes.

--

I never sell any games, so I guess that's why I find it hard to relate to the people that do. But if you were gonna sell your games anyway to subsdise the PS4 cost, why go digital in the first place?
 
The argument that digital books, digital movies, and digital music is portable so therefore digital PS3 games should be too is a terrible comparison. The comparison assumes that the complexity of each of the formats is comparable when they're not in the same league as a game. Decoding text, or video, or audio is something any computing device can do and at this point is trivial. Even converting on the fly is simple enough because of how inexpensive it is to process that.

Games however are complex pieces of software that you simply don't grab a utility and press a button to convert. It just doesn't work like that. You need either an emulator, hardware, or port the software. None of these things are trivial or cheap. It is unrealistic to hold them at the same level of portability.

Think of it this way, how easy is it to move a digital book, digital movie, or digital music to ANY platform and have it run? Now think about how easy it is to move any piece of software from one platform to a different and have it run. It doesn't have to be a game. On a scale of 1 to 100 for ease of portability, a book is like a 1, music is like a 2, video is like a 5, and a game is like 100. There's no magic convert button.
 
I'd be hesitant to buy something off the PSN if I knew there was a good chance it was locked to an older machine.

If my xbla games don't transfer over I'd be very weary of buying anything from the service.

Especially in an age where Nintendo is getting shit on for not having an account system, and rightly so. What is the point of an account system if you cant keep your games?
 
The argument that digital books, digital movies, and digital music is portable so therefore digital PS3 games should be too is a terrible comparison. The comparison assumes that the complexity of each of the formats is comparable when they're not in the same league as a game. Decoding text, or video, or audio is something any computing device can do and at this point is trivial. Even converting on the fly is simple enough because of how inexpensive it is to process that.

Games however are complex pieces of software that you simply don't grab a utility and press a button to convert. It just doesn't work like that. You need either an emulator, hardware, or port the software. None of these things are trivial or cheap. It is unrealistic to hold them at the same level of portability.

Think of it this way, how easy is it to move a digital book, digital movie, or digital music to ANY platform and have it run? Now think about how easy it is to move any piece of software from one platform to a different and have it run. It doesn't have to be a game. On a scale of 1 to 100 for ease of portability, a book is like a 1, music is like a 2, video is like a 5, and a game is like 100. There's no magic convert button.
But no small part of that additional complexity is brought on by the console makers who have obstinately refused to standardize on just about everything even in some basic ways. They've managed to somehow sell it to customers as a good thing because it's "competition" but not all competition is healthy. This is wartime offensive escalation that take us further and further away from the core value proposition of a console with each generation and renders valuable features like BC as collateral damage.

For 15 years, the fact that I could buy a next gen Playstation that was compatible at launch with the software of its predecessor was a triumph of the platform. It greatly smoothed the hardware transition from one gen to the next and positioned the platform as credibly the most serious about the value of their ENTIRE software catalog. It was a model for some of those simpler forms of media before they got their act together on their own compatibility. Now it's just...gone. You can't seriously be surprised that it would create a void some of us would struggle to deal with.
 
But no small part of that additional complexity is brought on by the console makers who have obstinately refused to standardize on just about everything even in some basic ways. They've managed to somehow sell it to customers as a good thing because it's "competition" but not all competition is healthy. This is wartime offensive escalation that take us further and further away from the core value proposition of a console with each generation and renders valuable features like BC as collateral damage.

For 15 years, the fact that I could buy a next gen Playstation that was compatible at launch with the software of its predecessor was a triumph of the platform. It greatly smoothed the hardware transition from one gen to the next and positioned the platform as credibly the most serious about the value of their ENTIRE software catalog. It was a model for some of those simpler forms of media before they got their act together on their own compatibility. Now it's just...gone. You can't seriously be surprised that it would create a void some of us would struggle to deal with.

Software is very hard to just move from one platform to another in one easy fix. That's why games don't magically appear on both platforms. The thing is, when the PS2 came out, it had the PS chip inside the system. When the PS3 came out, it had the PS2 chip inside the system and had software emulation of the PS1.

So what it comes down to is two solutions:

1) Include the previous hardware in the new system
2) Emulation

Let's take the first one, to include the PS3 chip inside the PS4, it would drive costs up significantly. This is a huge cost for what will in the end be a feature used by a minority of the user base. The number of people in that minority of the userbase who would actually skip the PS4 because of a lack of BC is even much smaller. So given that the price killed the PS3 in the beginning, and the number of people that gets discouraged by this, it's simply not a feasible thing to do to add the hardware at the expense of driving up the cost of the system which in turn puts thew whole platform and future in jeopardy. It's just not reasonable to do this.

Now let's look at emulation. Haven't you noticed that the speed at which an emulator pops up on a PC for a lot of systems is slowing down? At the rate that the complexity of these systems are changing, it becomes a lot more difficult to emulate them that will run at full speed. Heck there are still some systems we don't have reasonable emulation at all. This problem is going to get worse as time goes on. Eventually they will be emulated, but it's not always reasonable to expect that emulation is viable by the time the next platform launches.

Sony bet on the Cell chip and lost. Had it been a success, you could bet future systems would have used it. Microsoft and Sony both are seeing a trend and that's why both companies have switched their hardware design to what it is turning out to be. While I would love BC, I'm also realistic about the bigger picture and understand why we aren't going to get it now. Assuming that consoles don't end with this generation, this hiccup, puts both Sony and Microsoft in a better position moving forward to provide BC. Better to take the hit now in the early days than down the line.

What people want is unrealistic and they need to understand that. It's not like Sony or Microsoft is doing it to spite the gamer or to push sales of the new platform software. There are serious financial and technical reasons why this isn't happening and there isn't a magic fix for it.
 
Things like Capcom Arcade Gabinet dont make sense buy now in the PS3. Unless Capcom make clear that will be ported for PS4 and you can transfer your collection.
 
Did killing PS2 game BC make people sketchy to buy any PS3 game? I don't think the market really cares about carrying their games along with them forever.

This right here. BC helps a bunch early on in a consoles life span but otherwise BC is for us on GAF where even then I don't think it's a majority.
 
Didn't have a PS2, Wii or WiiU then eh?

But we're talking about the PS3. Which isn't backward compatible (except for mine and like 3 others). Is it reasonable to assume a non-backward compatible machine will be forward compatible? Doesn't seem like it to me.
 
Because every digital platform does. Every one but this one. (And maybe the xbox) Even backwards ass Nintendo got this right.

How many of those platforms are iterative and how many are whole new beasts like the PS4 is? Wii games run on Wii U because they have similar hardware. GameCube games ran on Wii for the same reason. 3DS is based on DS which was based on the GBA. How much of the PS4 do you think is from the PS3?
 
Big picture, probably won't change much at all, no.

Personally, however, I will be more wary about my digital purchases in the future. I'm not happy at all about the lack of PSN transfers.
 
It's kinda crazy how many people are waking up to the issues of digital content and ownership in this thread. It's one of the primary reasons I limit my digital purchases as much as possible and buy physical whenever it is an option.
 
This right here. BC helps a bunch early on in a consoles life span but otherwise BC is for us on GAF where even then I don't think it's a majority.
The market has changed though. Good sales of HD collections prove it. Being able to sell your whole games library on a new system with no additional costs is very tempting for all platform holders. Libraries are getting bigger with each year. Uncharteds would sell for years if only PS4 was able to run them. The same goes for Halos, GeoWs, GoWs, Killzones, etc.
 
In 5-10 years:

- "Hey, remember that awesome game from back in the day?"

- "Yeah, i LOVED that game, i bought it back then, let's check it out... oh wait, my PS3 no longer works and..."
 
In 5-10 years:

- "Hey, remember that awesome game from back in the day?"

- "Yeah, i LOVED that game, i bought it back then, let's check it out... oh wait, my PS3 no longer works and..."

To be fair this isnt a huge fear to me. Im more upset at the inconvenience and worried about drm on DD purchases once networks are taken down. Physical copies are easier, i mean you can still buy an atari 2600 if you want one.
 
With the non-backwards compatible element of PS4, it's entirely realistic to me, and possibly Sony too, that a future where your PS3 sits alongside your PS4 is quite plausible.

I'll still happily buy PSN games I want (if I can find them on the new store that is).
 
To be fair this isnt a huge fear to me. Im more upset at the inconvenience and worried about drm on DD purchases once networks are taken down. Physical copies are easier, i mean you can still buy an atari 2600 if you want one.

You're right DD is actually a lot worse... still, even for disc based games, compared to cartridges which basically last a lifetime, disc based mediums are a LOT shorter lived unfortunately. Plus the hardware will be frail by then, so unless you want to buy a brand "new" sealed PS3 for an obscene amount of money on Ebay in 10 years, you're probably out of luck then too by the time yours broke down :(
 
Obviously, quite a lot of people here never had a console go bad on them before...

Once you've been through a couple 360s due to RROD or had a PS3 give up on you (YLOD or other heat related malfunctions) you quickly realize the days of the NES, SNES and N64 type hardware are long gone, and the new norm nowadays is short lived, expensive hardware that won't stand the test of time.
 
I've decided not to buy any more PS3 or PSN content at this point. Any more is just a money pit. I can skip the rest of the releases this year except I have to admit that Tomb Raider and Bioshock Infinite look really good. Maybe if they come down to about $10 I might just go ahead and waste the cash.
 
I wish Sony would offer a PS4 with BC for whatever the additional cost is to them so people could stop complaining, no one would buy it, but at least it'd end it as a debate topic.
 
Obviously, quite a lot of people here never had a console go bad on them before...

Once you've been through a couple 360s due to RROD or had a PS3 give up on you (YLOD or other heat related malfunctions) you quickly realize the days of the NES, SNES and N64 type hardware are long gone, and the new norm nowadays is short lived, expensive hardware that won't stand the test of time.

You do have a point, with devices becoming more complicated their failure rate grow. These all make good points though for a better BC and DD future.
 
What happen when Sony stop selling the PS3 and the PS3 breaks?

What are you looking for exactly? You won't be able to play PS3 games forever; you will be able to play them for a long time to come (say the next decade at least). That is true for disc based or ditial PS3 games.

That's what a lot of people don't get I think. PSN is a SERVICE that provides PS3 games digitally.
 
I wish Sony would offer a PS4 with BC for whatever the additional cost is to them so people could stop complaining, no one would buy it, but at least it'd end it as a debate topic.

So you wish Sony would lose money on something everyone knows is a bad idea, just because you don't like seeing a type of debate on the internet? Lol.
 
What are you looking for exactly? You won't be able to play PS3 games forever; you will be able to play them for a long time to come (say the next decade at least). That is true for disc based or ditial PS3 games.

That's what a lot of people don't get I think. PSN is a SERVICE that provides PS3 games digitally.

I keep reading this. Based on what? When have Sony confirmed this?
 
So you wish Sony would lose money on something everyone knows is a bad idea, just because you don't like seeing a type of debate on the internet? Lol.
Why would they lose money? They wouldn't just build tons of them based on the assumption people would want them.

I just think it's a fruitless discussion, people want backwards compatibility, and of course they do, but when asked to pay for it, I'm pretty confident practically everyone would say no.
 
Why would they lose money? They wouldn't just build tons of them based on the assumption people would want them.

I just think it's a fruitless discussion, people want backwards compatibility, and of course they do, but when asked to pay for it, I'm pretty confident practically everyone would say no.

Because there's the cost of R&D, manufacturing setup, maintaining two production lines, distribution, managing inventory, marketing, and so forth.
 
Now that people know psn games won't transfer then wouldn't the digital games suffer on ps4? They will not want to buy it because they know it won't transfer.

I Will probably not buy another game on psn and no more multiplatform games for ps3

I will get the last of us this year but skip everything in the second half.

I never have old consoles plugged in
 
Because there's the cost of R&D, manufacturing setup, maintaining two production lines, distribution, managing inventory, marketing, and so forth.
And it would obviously sell some amount, and I already said with the additional cost to Sony added to the system, that includes all those things.
 
What happen when Sony stop selling the PS3 and the PS3 breaks?

What happens when Sony stops selling the PS4 and the PS4 breaks?

I Will probably not buy another game on psn and no more multiplatform games for ps3

I will get the last of us this year but skip everything in the second half.

I never have old consoles plugged in

Here's an idea.

Have your old console plugged in.

If you're not going to sell your PS3, lack of backwards compatibility is a very minor inconvenience.
 
What happens when Sony stops selling the PS4 and the PS4 breaks?



Here's an idea.

Have your old console plugged in.

If you're not going to sell your PS3, lack of backwards compatibility is a very minor inconvenience.

Well it was Sony who put BC on consoles in the first place. If they take out psn for ps3 and my ps3 breaks then when i get another ps3 i wont be able to redownlaod them.
 
Well it was Sony who put BC on consoles in the first place. If they take out psn for ps3 and my ps3 breaks then when i get another ps3 i wont be able to redownlaod them.

And if they intentionally do a firmware update that bricks every PS3 on earth, you won't be able to play retail games either.

And if I had wheels, I'd be a wagon.
 
And it would obviously sell some amount, and I already said with the additional cost to Sony added to the system, that includes all those things.

It just doesn't work like that because you have to project how many you will sell to determine the price. If you keep raising the price instead of banking on longer term sales, then you risk it not selling at all and you lose out anyway. It's not as simple as throw it in and add the cost of the chip into the price and you automatically don't lose money. There are plenty of upfront costs without any guarantee of return.
 
Marty Chinn said:
What people want is unrealistic and they need to understand that. It's not like Sony or Microsoft is doing it to spite the gamer or to push sales of the new platform software.
Marty, you almost completely sidestepped my point, just to offer a generic lecture on the challenges of hardware emulation that I'm already well aware of. I acknowledge the baseline challenges here, but what I'm talking about are massive overhead challenges that console manufacturers have brought upon themselves, heaped on top of those baselines, because they got delusions of grandeur about "owning the living room" and spending too much time trying to outmaneuver each other rather than _working together_, in the process losing total focus on the core value proposition of the product they were trying to sell. What I want is hardly unrealistic if we just stop condoning dysfunctional behavior, even applauding it in many cases.

Why should it be so beyond the realm of reality to think that a piece of hardware built with a focus on cost-efficiency and longevity shouldn't also be able to achieve enough depreciation of cost and further manufacturing efficiency after 5-6 years of iterative refinement in order to be incorporated cost effectively in the next architecture?

If Sony or MS or Nintendo make bad calls, it shouldn't be our job to cover for them, whether they did it out of spite for the customer or not.
 
So you think it won't happen? Sony took down ps2 online.

Individual games get shut down when people stop playing them (or when they're EA games because EA sucks). That's not the same as removing online entirely, and it's not exclusive to PS2. As far as I know, Final Fantasy XI still works on PS2.
 
So you think it won't happen? Sony took down ps2 online.

That wasn't even so bad compared to this disaster in waiting...

I mean there WAS no PSN back then where you could buy 100s of games digitally, all this means now is that you simply cannot play those online games anymore (bad enough but hey it's understandable at least)

I just can't accept that Sony wouldn't integrate ALL existing PSN content into their new PS4 PSN and call it a day.
 
Individual games get shut down when people stop playing them (or when they're EA games because EA sucks). That's not the same as removing online entirely, and it's not exclusive to PS2. As far as I know, Final Fantasy XI still works on PS2.

We shall see, can't blame me for being cautious though.
 
Wait, digital games won't transfer?? When was that announced? Shitty.
 
This is why all my PSN monies are going towards Vita purchases. PS+ freebies for the PS3 will hold me over until the PS4 is out.

*Edit that's alot of "PSing"
 
Top Bottom