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[DonShula]

I keep going back to wondering less about WWE only turning away the current audience, but doing that while presenting nothing that would draw in a potential new audience.

What is there right now that you could point at on any of their programming and think that it would be of interest to someone who's never watched wrestling before?

I remember the radical shift in tone that dawned the Attitude era (President Gorilla Monsoon declares Raw is War!). That in and of itself was interesting - violence and melodrama usually draws a crowd. And the period directly before that was some of the most bland and sanitized wrestling I can remember. They were still doing USA vs Japan stuff. And all of a sudden the wrestlers who'd been saddled with the lamest gimmicks were allowed to show their personalities, and people loved it. People also loved dumpsters flying off stages and leaping from steel cages.

But it all happened because of Nitro and WCW. Competition has always brought out the best in Vince McMahon. Right now it seems like he's only competing against himself.

 

[Heroman]

What's actually killing wrestling isn't Vince, even though he's not helping.

What's actually killing wrestling is the same thing that is slowly killing comic books - the fanboys are now in control. Instead of a bunch of disinterested assholes only caring about how much money they could make, you've got a bunch of guys and gals who are good people, but are so starry eyed they're in the WWE they don't know how to stand up for themselves and have never had to learn how to actually draw fans into the building.

Does the writing suck? Yes!

But, you could get David Simon, Aaron Sorkin, and Shonda Rimes on a writing team and they still couldn't make me interested in anything two boring dudes like Seth Rollins or Finn Balor does.

What are you talking about?

 

[Officerrob]

Except its not... All the women are "attractive", Bliss is where she is because they can count on her to carry lengthy talking segments that make up a bulk of the "storytelling" they do.

No one else other than Charlotte (and she's faltered mic wise a lot on Smackdown frankly) can be counted on to do that.


Literally Bliss is the talking workhorse of the women's division and that's why she's where she is.

In WWE Mic > workrate

In WWE, having the look Vince wants/likes>Mic>Workrate. It's been like this for both men and women forever.

 

[Murkas]

The show is just boring to watch.

Before the booking drama, the talent, the 3 hour shows, the multiple PPVs, it all comes down to being boring and exhausting to watch.

Alexa is great and she's the champ and is getting pushed, but why would I watch her? She's just gonna have boring matches against boring superstars.

 

[Mahonay]

What's actually killing wrestling isn't Vince, even though he's not helping.

What's actually killing wrestling is the same thing that is slowly killing comic books - the fanboys are now in control. Instead of a bunch of disinterested assholes only caring about how much money they could make, you've got a bunch of guys and gals who are good people, but are so starry eyed they're in the WWE they don't know how to stand up for themselves and have never had to learn how to actually draw fans into the building.

Does the writing suck? Yes!

But, you could get David Simon, Aaron Sorkin, and Shonda Rimes on a writing team and they still couldn't make me interested in anything two boring dudes like Seth Rollins or Finn Balor does.

The show is just boring to watch.

Before the booking drama, the talent, the 3 hour shows, the multiple PPVs, it all comes down to being boring and exhausting to watch.

Alexa is great and she's the champ and is getting pushed, but why would I watch her? She's just gonna have boring matches against boring superstars.

"Boring" really is the best description of the overall product at the moment. I have 3 free months of the Network right now and I decided to check a couple of matches from Extreme Rules that were supposed to be good. I actually fell asleep. Just...absolutely zero investment to be had. Even when the work in the ring is technically good.

 

[sibarraz]

What are you talking about?

The idea is that the actual locker room are a bunch of big fans (or marks if you wat to use the pejorative wrestling term) who are just so happy for being finally noticed by the WWE, than they accept pretty much everything that Vince/HHH throws at them. Even some wrestlers have told that they are scared to directly talk to Vince. Also Brian Kendrick went on a rant recently were he complained that after a match was over, wrestlers were more worried about searching their names on twitter than getting feedback. Orton said that the younger wrestlers don't ask the veterans anymore

In the other hand, wrestlers from the past have a good chunk of childhood fans and outsiders who cared more on protecting their brand. If they thought that the company was giving them shit they left and went to the competition, and now you don't even have the excuse that there is not competition. Cody Rhodes and Drew Mcyntire turned around their careers drastically. Aj Styles took his time to go to the WWE instead of offering the first offer that was very low. Now he is a top star who is also a 2 time WWE Champion. That was unthinkable 3 years ago. The fact is, you can make a good living without the WWE.

 

[sibarraz]

Double Post

 

[Host Samurai]

In WWE, having the look Vince wants/likes>Mic>Workrate. It's been like this for both men and women forever.

Not really. Look at Austin, Bret & HBK never fit the bill for a "Vince guy". If it weren't for competition we would have gotten Lex (who in all fairness was over) and Brakkus in 96/97. Vince will always push a muscle guy to recapture the 80's

 

[Mahonay]

Not really. Look at Austin, Bret & HBK never fit the bill for a "Vince guy". If it weren't for competition we would have gotten Lex (who in all fairness was over) and Brakkus in 96/97. Vince will always push a muscle guy to recapture the 80's

Bret's ring work and baby face appeal was too much for Vince to ignore eventually. Was just obviously better than the other options available to him.

Vince always loved Shawn. Has a literal crush on him.

Austin happened mostly by mistake which Vince decided to just run with since they were getting killed by WCW.

 

[Sephzilla]

Not really. Look at Austin, Bret & HBK never fit the bill for a "Vince guy". If it weren't for competition we would have gotten Lex (who in all fairness was over) and Brakkus in 96/97. Vince will always push a muscle guy to recapture the 80's

I dunno, prime Bret Hart was pretty close to the "Vince look" especially in the post-steroid allegation era. Austin was also pretty cut and jacked before the neck injury.

 

[Mahonay]

I dunno, prime Bret Hart was pretty close to the "Vince look" especially in the post-steroid allegation era. Austin was also pretty cut and jacked before the neck injury.

Yep. Both dudes were jacked as fuck.

 

[jmdajr]

Different times. Back then wrestler's were actual tough guys that wanted to fight. Now it's fans turning into wrestler's.

It's not the first time the topic has been brought up. Wrestling is more about cool moves now than actually having heat with one another, as Jim Cornette said.

Now being a fan, I do love cool moves, but it's nothing if I don't get a sense of why these people are fighting in the first place.

Basically, WWE needs some pissed off motherfuckers and we don't have any. It's too good a living and having the dream.

edit: ya'll saw AJ and how pissed he was at losing Madden. We need that!

 

[Mahonay]

Different times. Back then wrestler's were actual tough guys that wanted to fight. Now it's fans turning into wrestler's.

It's not the first time the topic has been brought up. Wrestling is more about cool moves now than actually having heat with one another, as Jim Cornette said.

Now being a fan, I do love cool moves, but it's nothing if I don't get a sense of why these people are fighting in the first place.

Basically, WWE needs some pissed off motherfuckers and we don't have any. It's too good a living and having the dream.

edit: ya'll saw AJ and how pissed he was at losing Madden. We need that!

If WWE scripts these guys literally word for word now, I'm not sure the problem starts with the talent and their lessened hunger to get over. It doesn't help, but it's not the core issue at WWE.

Not to mention WWE straight out denying talent certain gimmicks that are over with the crowd and purposely depushing them.

 

[jmdajr]

If WWE scripts these guys literally word for word now, I'm not sure the problem starts with the talent and their lessened hunger to get over. It doesn't help, but it's not the core issue at WWE.

Not to mention WWE straight out denying talent certain gimmicks that are over with the crowd and purposely depushing them.

All that doesn't help.

 

[Host Samurai]

I dunno, prime Bret Hart was pretty close to the "Vince look" especially in the post-steroid allegation era. Austin was also pretty cut and jacked before the neck injury.

Bret was never jacked and Austin, while muscular, was a far cry from a Vincegasm. Out of anyone during that time, Lex, Bulldog and maybe Hall were guys in the mid 90's that might be "Vince guys" and Hall is kinda stretching it. In the late 90's there was literally nobody that fit that bill until HHH started a cycle, Test and Shamrock. The Rock didn't have the physique he has today.

 

[Mahonay]

Bret was never jacked and Austin, while muscular, was a far cry from a Vincegasm. Out of anyone during that time, Lex, Bulldog and maybe Hall were guys in the mid 90's that might be "Vince guys" and Hall is kinda stretching it. In the late 90's there was literally nobody that fit that bill until HHH started a cycle, Test and Shamrock. The Rock didn't have the physique he has today.

 

[Heroman]

This isn't jacked

 

[Sephzilla]

Bret was never jacked and Austin, while muscular, was a far cry from a Vincegasm. Out of anyone during that time, Lex, Bulldog and maybe Hall were guys in the mid 90's that might be "Vince guys" and Hall is kinda stretching it. In the late 90's there was literally nobody that fit that bill until HHH started a cycle, Test and Shamrock. The Rock didn't have the physique he has today.

Differing opinions and all but IC-to-World Champ Bret was built enough to pass for a Vince guy. He wasn't as cut as early Stone Cold but he was more "jacked" than Hall was.

I actually liked that Austin, Bret, and Hall didn't look like roid freaks like Lex and Bulldog were. Also, factor in how much Bret's physique changed since his early Hart Foundation days

 

[Mahonay]

This isn't jacked

Uhhh, do you suffer from body dysmorphia? How the fuck is that not jacked?

 

[Heroman]

Uhhh, do you suffer from body dysmorphia? How the fuck is that not jacked?

He has a good body but jack naw.

 

[sibarraz]

I will always be amazed by how big wrestlers look when you stand next to them.

Last year I bought some tickets to a local wrestler that from my seat looked like a vanilla midget. When I met him he was super jacked and was way bigger than me. and I'm fat

Is like Kawada said when he retired and opened a ramen shop. He could't return since he was now an skinny guy who doesn't look super human anymore

 

[Violence Jack]

I gave Raw a good solid 30-45 minutes of my time last night, and the only thing worth a damn was the Samoa Joe/Heyman promo. Otherwise, it was just as awful and boring as ever.

 

[Mahonay]

I will always be amazed by how big wrestlers look when you stand next to them.

Last year I bought some tickets to a local wrestler that from my seat looked like a vanilla midget. When I met him he was super jacked and was bigger than me.

Is like Kawada said when he retired and opened a ramen shop. He could't return since he was now an skinny guy who doesn't look super human anymore

One of my buddies who works as a bouncer at one of the local bars here is an indie wrestler and dear fucking god he is a giant. Makes me feel like a literal Hobbit. Dude did go train at FCW/early NXT though.

 

[autumnleaf]

Uhhh, do you suffer from body dysmorphia? How the fuck is that not jacked?

Jacked for a normal guy and jacked for a wrestler are not the same thing.

 

[Mahonay]

Jacked for a normal guy and jacked for a wrestler are not the same thing.

Guess I'm not carney enough.

 

[sibarraz]

Bret Hart was jacked in the 90's. Another thing is that he wasn''t ICOPRO jacked

 

[Officerrob]

Not really. Look at Austin, Bret & HBK never fit the bill for a "Vince guy". If it weren't for competition we would have gotten Lex (who in all fairness was over) and Brakkus in 96/97. Vince will always push a muscle guy to recapture the 80's

Having the look doesn't necessarily mean jacked (although most of the time it does with Vince). It's about having a marketable look, that Vince thinks he can market as the face (or one of the faces) of the company. The likes of HBK, Austin, and pre-massive steroid Rock fit that bill. Reigns isn't jacked to the level that Vince fantasizes about, but he has the marketable look Vince banked on years ago. That was more important than him being shit on the mic or good in the ring.

 

[Tom Nook]

Can't wait for the rating results.....

I'm predicting slightly higher than last week.

 

[Sephzilla]

Vince is probably praying for the NBA Finals to be a sweep so that Game 5 doesn't happen against Raw

 

[Mahonay]

Vince is probably praying for the NBA Finals to be a sweep so that Game 5 doesn't happen against Raw

The regular ratings are barely much better now than when they go against other major sports. They sure as fuck won't spike after the Finals are over.

 

[Sephzilla]

The regular ratings are barely much better now than when they go against other major sports. They sure as fuck won't spike after the Finals are over.

I know, but what I meant was that ratings would probably nosedive if they go head to head against the finals right now

 

[Violence Jack]

I know, but what I meant was that ratings would probably nosedive if they go head to head against the finals right now

Games 1 and 2 of the Finals were the most watched since 1998.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

I could have sworn that Lita had a say in the women's matches.

Pretty sure Lita left the company last December.

Lmao Steph pushing Alexa? Steph isn't in creative she has no role. It's all Vince and kind of Hunter. Why do you think Steph has anything to do with it?

Plus, Alexa is getting her push because she's fucking great.

Lmao first you think Steph is behind it. Then you believe Uproxx and now this. Yikes.

I think you should be referring to Kevin Dunn here, he's Vince's number two and probably the person with the most power in creative aside from Vince and in opposition to Triple H as the story goes, he's gone when Vince is because of Trips and Stephanie's dislike of him. I doubt if it were up to Hunter that so many of his NXT people would be treated as they have been on the main roster compared to how he and his people booked them in NXT. Triple H knows his politics and that Dunn is basically in a higher position in the company even if HHH is Vince's son in law.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Alexa is getting pushed because she’s a hot young blonde girl and that’s McMahon’s favourite type to push. And probably force himself on.

It’s certainly not because of her consistently bad PPV matches that are destroying any credibility that belt once had.

Oh it's you again.

Her match a Payback was really good. The booking at ER was bad not her.

Again she is where she is because she can do all the heavy lifting on the mic. There is no one even close to her level there in Raw

But yes just reduce her to her looks and fuckability

In WWE, having the look Vince wants/likes>Mic>Workrate. It's been like this for both men and women forever.

In this WWE if Bliss couldn't talk she'd below Carmella on tje totem poll, she'd have the same push as maybe Emma or actually probably more like Dana Brooke

 

[Penguin]

Raw rebounded this week

Hour 1 - 3.113 M
hour 2 - 3.110 M
Hour 3 - 2.758 M

 

[Anth0ny]

Raw rebounded this week

Hour 1 - 3.113 M
hour 2 - 3.110 M
Hour 3 - 2.758 M

SMOA JOE = RATINGS



This week last year: Also no NBA Playoff competition. Averaged 3.254m viewers. This year is down 8%.

 

[bigkrev]

Love you Meltzer

Overall, Raw was up 14 percent from the past two weeks even with the Stanley Cup finals audience increasing to 5.57 million viewers and being a close second to The Bachelorette (which features Ring of Honor wrestler Kenny King) at 6.03 million viewers for the most watched show on television.

 

[Lothar]

So it'll never get better. Why are people still watching? What could they be getting out of it?

 

[FStubbs]

In WWE, having the look Vince wants/likes>Mic>Workrate. It's been like this for both men and women forever.

 

[DMczaf]

Raw rebounded this week

Hour 1 - 3.113 M
hour 2 - 3.110 M
Hour 3 - 2.758 M

"Brock's opponent is selected! He'll be here!"

"Any second now!!"

"Fml"

 

[Marvel]

Thought this week's was pretty good, the hype crowd sure helps.

So excited to see Joe get Lesnar man.

 

[RBH]

In this week’s Sports Business Journal story on “the greying of sports,” John Lombardo and David Broughton analyzed 25 years of Nielsen data. They found that the median age TV viewer has gotten older for every sport except women’s tennis. And no sport (or pseudo-sport) has seen its TV viewers get older than WWE. Since 2000, the median age of wrestling viewers has gone up 26 years.

In 2000, the median age of a pro wrestling viewer was 28. Now it’s 54, per the SBJ. The age of the wrestling audience nearly doubled in 17 years!

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...5/Research-and-Ratings/Viewership-trends.aspx

http://deadspin.com/study-the-median-age-of-tv-wrestling-viewers-has-nearl-1795864450

 

[Bronx-Man]

Is WrassleGaf offcially the retirement home of GAF?

 

[Violence Jack]

Raw rebounded this week

Hour 1 - 3.113 M
hour 2 - 3.110 M
Hour 3 - 2.758 M

Maybe viewers thought Brock would be showing up? Look for Samoa Joe to become the monster heel in all of WWE now.

 

[Andrew J.]

I will always be amazed by how big wrestlers look when you stand next to them.

Last year I bought some tickets to a local wrestler that from my seat looked like a vanilla midget. When I met him he was super jacked and was way bigger than me. and I'm fat

Is like Kawada said when he retired and opened a ramen shop. He could't return since he was now an skinny guy who doesn't look super human anymore

Watching wrestling--especially WWE--does something to the way you perceive people. You get conditioned to think of guys like Cena and Orton as normal, cruiserweights as small, and only the likes of Kane and Strowman as actually pretty big. In actuality, cruiserweights are average to above-average, Cena and Orton are huge, and Strowman is gigantic.

 

[Toki767]

Maybe viewers thought Brock would be showing up? Look for Samoa Joe to become the monster heel in all of WWE now.

He couldn't even beat Rollins clean last night.

He is not going to be booked like a monster heel.

 

[Dental Plan]

SMOA JOE = RATINGS



This week last year: Also no NBA Playoff competition. Averaged 3.254m viewers. This year is down 8%.

The numbers dont lie, they spell RATINGS.

 

[Tom Nook]

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...5/Research-and-Ratings/Viewership-trends.aspx

In 2000, the median age of a pro wrestling viewer was 28. Now it's 54, per the SBJ. The age of the wrestling audience nearly doubled in 17 years!

WWE did not capture any new audiences to the product - only the loyal WWE fans from the attitude and golden era are watching.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Maybe viewers thought Brock would be showing up? Look for Samoa Joe to become the monster heel in all of WWE now.

All I hope is that Brach doesn't squash him.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...5/Research-and-Ratings/Viewership-trends.aspx

http://deadspin.com/study-the-median-age-of-tv-wrestling-viewers-has-nearl-1795864450

Nice to have an new article about it, you'd think something like this would be concerning to WWE but nope. Maybe we'll get some Loony Toon quality angles again from Vince because Vince knows the kids love the Loony Toons! Maybe he can call the operator and get the Muppets on the phone.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Do people in their 50s remember when This Is Your Life was a thing