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[Amir0x]

Well, Nfans are a bit cocky and stupid with this whole Revolution thing. You know, trying to project the DS' situation as a predictor the Revolution. As if the DS wasn't a gauranteed hit following the wildly popular GBA. As if the GBA also had anything whatsoever to do with the performance of the GameCube. It's much more valid to look at the GameCube and predict that the Revo will be dead in the water than to say the DS has anything to do with the success or failure of the Big (fat, lazy, incompetent) N's next home console.

I think both camps are NOT giving props where it's due.

DS success was not guaranteed. It succeeded based on having the broadest range of development support, and an environment that fostered cheap, affordable games. This is not something that was 'guaranteed', Nintendo did it by offering something that was better for certain types of consumers.

DS success does not in any case indicate that Revolution will share the same fate. The overlap between handheld and console markets is such that the trends and tastes are usually quite different. Not to mention that to age ranges also vary widely.

On this same token, PS3 success is not guaranteed over Revolution or 360. It's the same thing, consumers might want to switch gears, Sony might mess up with pricing, Microsoft might offer a game that pulls it more buyers, Revolution might really click by offering the world's greatest masturbation simulation.

At the end of the day, it's just a great big mix of possibilities. Nobody is all wrong, nobody is all right. Because everyone is trying so hard to validate their purchases.

 

[the androgyne]

Agreed - did you catch this?

DS success does not in any case indicate that Revolution will share the same fate. The overlap between handheld and console markets is such that the trends and tastes are usually quite different. Not to mention that to age ranges also vary widely.

Would you agree PS2 and GBA were successful for similar reasons, albeit being targeted at different groups? I agree with what you're saying here, they are very different markets and follow different trends. But the same principle applies i believe - GBA and PS2 were both successful cause they had the widest variety with an better than acceptable amount of quality.

Of course the variety comes from 3rd party support and ease of development. I think nintendo recognizes why GBA and now DS are successful and is at the least, trying to be successful by doing similar in the home market.

Now that the 'innovative' DS has taken off, it has more than its fair share of traditional gba(edit: leftovers) games coming. Revolutions 'revolution' will probably just kickstart the userbase, hopefully bringing 3rd parties in tow.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Well, Nfans are a bit cocky and stupid with this whole Revolution thing. You know, trying to project the DS' situation as a predictor for the Revolution. As if the DS wasn't a gauranteed hit following the wildly popular GBA. As if the GBA also had anything whatsoever to do with the performance of the GameCube. It's much more valid to look at the GameCube and predict that the Revo will be dead in the water than to say the DS has anything to do with the success or failure of the Big (fat, lazy, incompetent) N's next home console.

DS's success didn't just happen overnight though. If it had been down to riding on the GBA it would have been a huge success right away. It's success has been driven by the titles Nintendo put out, and the fact they had to think different because the hardware was different.

So there are parallels with Revolution in that Nintendo is going to be forced to produce new titles because of the hardware. Who knows what appeal they may or may not have. GC recycled past-glories, there's bound to be new things introduced into the mix next time round.

 

[Odysseus]

Don't be stupid. Almost everyone thought the PSP was gonna steamroll the fuck out of the DS.

Well, if Sony had clue 1 about the existing handheld market, it might have had a chance to do so (and it certainly isn't over, mind you). But as expensive as it is with its mixed placement (does it compete with GBA and DS or does it compete with iPod?), Sony should be ecstatic that it is even as close as it is.

 

[Speevy]

The Revolution now is much like how the PlayStation was, in that it's an unknown quantity. It certainly isn't a Gamecube2. If it were it'd retain its fanbase and its appeal would go no farther. But it's bringing new things to the table, significant innovations other than state-of-the-art graphics that just might appeal to those that haven't really touched a video game in years. If it gains enough public support like the PlayStation did by being fresh and exciting, it'll gain massive dev support. These are all big If's, but if it worked for the PlayStation, why not the Revolution? Nobody knows, but the Revolution is definitely the Joker card of next gen.

The Nintendo 64 was the unpredictable joker of that generation, if anything. After a certain point, we knew exactly what was happening. How could we not? The Playstation was getting the great majority of the games.

In my mind, Nintendo didn't address its "mainstream console" problems. They just ran away from them. But I think at least a few of those (like third party games not appealing to Nintendo fans and sparse release schedules) will be back for another generation.

 

[Amir0x]

Why do you always put yourself on the line like this Amir0x? I'm not saying you're wrong but I can't wait to see your impressions of Revolution stuff when it's shown. My opinion is probably in line with yours somewhat; i expect Revolution to be noticeably different to the likes of this forum, but somewhat neglible to the casual gamer. I hope that if that turns out to be the case, you'll admit it cause often you sound SO hell bent on your opinion!

It's going to be interesting for sure - i just hope you've got your flame suit ready if Rev somehow manages to compete graphically in the forum's mind

There's no line to be drawn. We already know that Revolution won't be having HD res, which already makes it significantly worse than 360 and PS3.

Whatever crap Nintendo fanatics try to claim by saying "Wow, see Mario's mustache!? EASILY on par with Solid Snake!" or "lol, Zelda Rev video matched Gears of War with ease, just look at the artistry!" will just be lost bravado based on goggles. Same applies to the other camps. Nothing will ever be proven, because some people feel the need to bullshit to support their positions. Everyone does it. But Revolution has already distinguished itself, and has put forth several things we know (such as no HD res) that make it inferior. How inferior you feel it is, my gut tells me will be based entirely on what your preference is.

Would you agree PS2 and GBA were successful for similar reasons, albeit being targeted at different groups? I agree with what you're saying here, they are very different markets and follow different trends. But the same principle applies i believe - GBA and PS2 were both successful cause they had the widest variety with an better than acceptable amount of quality.

PS2 and GBA success were based on the same principles, not the same market. The truth that binds everything together is that if you offer the most support with the largest variety of games at the best value you're going to win. And that's what GBA did, and that's what PS2 did, and that's what DS is doing. That's the key. None of it is guaranteed. You have to make it appealing to consumers.

 

[the androgyne]

But Revolution has already distinguished itself, and has put forth several things we know (such as no HD res) that make it inferior. How inferior you feel it is, my gut tells me will be based entirely on what your preference is.

Fair call - to me, in AUS where HD sucks complete balls, it doesn't mean anything
I dont think lacking HD will hurt REV in the short-term with casuals do you? I have no perspective on how HD is doing in the states though i know it's well on it's way.. but even still, it's in a transition phase and casuals aren't like people on this board! They just don't care until its unfashionable to care.

 

[AniHawk]

Wow. Speevy needs to take a nap or something.

 

[Amir0x]

I dont think lacking HD will hurt REV in the short-term with casuals do you? I have no perspective on how HD is doing in the states though i know it's well on it's way.. but even still, it's in a transition phase and casuals aren't like people on this board! They just don't care until its unfashionable to care.

Nah, I don't think the resonance among mainstream consumers will really hurt Revolution until MAYBE the end of its lifespan when penetration will be reaching critical mass. Hardcore gamers might "buzz" about the lack of HD, and that might cause some influence among the casual market... but I doubt that'll be the story we're talking about when discussing Revolutions success/lack thereof in three years. It's gonna be all about the revmote.

Still doesn't make the lack of HD any less shitty though.

 

[Brannon]

A simple "Just doesn't interest me." always suffices.

But a more complex "Just doesn't interest me because of A, B and C." is much better and has pizzazz.

 

[dorio]

The worldwide launch wasn't the problem, the inability to make enough units is the problem. Those units in Europe and Japan wouldn't have prevented the hardware shortage in the US. Americans don't deserve the system more than the rest of the world anyway.

 

[AniHawk]

The worldwide launch wasn't the problem, the inability to make enough units is the problem. Those units in Europe and Japan wouldn't have prevented the hardware shortage in the US. Americans don't deserve the system more than the rest of the world anyway.

Yes they do, considering they're the closest to where they're manufactured, where the company is located, and where they sold the most Xboxes last gen.

 

[Borys]

That's borderline racism.

You want a successful product on all markets not on ONE market.

MS is smarter than you, Ani.

 

[AniHawk]

That's borderline racism.

You want a successful product on all markets not on ONE market.

MS is smarter than you, Ani.

Wouldn't it be better to launch where you know there'd be a bigger base, and that way, while you sell as many as you would've worldwide, you could be fixing problems you might encounter there when you launch elsewhere?

Anyway, by my post I meant if they had to launch in one place first (which, in hindsight, is what they SHOULD have done), the US would've been the best place.

 

[Xellotah]

Wouldn't it be better to launch where you know there'd be a bigger base, and that way, while you sell as many as you would've worldwide, you could be fixing problems you might encounter there when you launch elsewhere?

Its still not too late for MS to focus on America, at least for the near term, but I don't think that is the problem. The problem is todo with production, they can't seem to produce enough for any market, let alone the world market.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Speevy's gotta pay his debts for his free Xbox and 360 somehow guys! He's just doing his job..

 

[Borys]

Speevy's gotta pay his debts for his free Xbox and 360 somehow guys! He's just doing his job..

:lol

NEVER FORGET

$800 gift.

Hell, I'd *champion* that like a tool anytime.

 

[D3VI0US]

Man a lot of you guys fail to see the big picture. First mover advantage is more than a few months after launch. A headstart in units can be overcome, but not a headstart in development, especially by a competitor with a sketchy release schedule that's likely to be plagued by shortages as well. MS can clean up Xmas 06, especially if Sony misses the Holidays. Regardless it's a big fuckup by MS, and their bid for serious marketshare erodes everyday this persists, but it's not all gloom and doom.

Sony's victory may be determined by their competitor's mistakes. However their continued dominance is determined by their successes. They're fighting a war of attrition against two competitors gaurenteed to gain marketshare. Still lets wait for the other two to show their cards, despite all the shit talking 360's got the most solid and practical hand in my estimation.

 

[PhatSaqs]

The ball has been dropped. MS fucked up big time with the WW release IMO.

 

[Xellotah]

Publishers are reluctant to release their big games until there is a reasonable sized and expanding market for them to sell into. I wouldn't be surprised if games like oblivion are delayed until more supplies of X360 are available.

 

[NWO]

So they launch a system that is selling less than Gamecube why?

The Xbox 360 is the worst selling system worldwide since the Sega Saturn.....and the Saturn sold more in first couple of months. :lol

Though MS has had problems as an excuse but Nintendo and Sony don't give a fuck about MS's problems so it really doesn't make a difference. At this rate MS would have done better if they launched the same time as Rev/PS3 and had enough systems to get out there. They will have nothing for a worldwide lead when both of those systems launch and one of them should easily pass the 360 in worldwide sales in its first couple of months.

 

[kaching]

Man a lot of you guys fail to see the big picture. First mover advantage is more than a few months after launch. A headstart in units can be overcome, but not a headstart in development, especially by a competitor with a sketchy release schedule that's likely to be plagued by shortages as well. MS can clean up Xmas 06, especially if Sony misses the Holidays.

A headstart in development is not going to be purely to the X360's benefit though - the entire dev community is gearing up for next-gen projects of the scope and complexity that implies. Work done on X360 titles will carry over to the PS3 with a lot of projects being multiplatform. PS3 is certainly not going to be later than 2006 or we're into worst case scenarios for Sony and the PS platform. And one of the things that's pretty clear this time around is that they're putting a lot more effort into having significant 1st and 2nd party games ready up front, which will only bolster the strong 3rd party support they're sure to have.

As for component shortages, its certainly possible but Sony seems to be playing it a bit conservative, considering they announced at E3 last year that the PS3 would use a slightly crippled Cell (7 SPEs vs. 8) CPU which is probably only being done to ensure good yields. Having made that decision almost a year before the launch of the PS3, it would seem they're putting a very high priority on avoiding any shortage issues

 

[Lukkas]

Publishers are reluctant to release their big games until there is a reasonable sized and expanding market for them to sell into. I wouldn't be surprised if games like oblivion are delayed until more supplies of X360 are available.

Why would Oblivion be delayed when its coming out for PC, the platform Morrowind sold the most copies on anyhow...

 

[damisa]

Launching early isn't just about marketshare, it's also about having a large number of games over the competition (for a while), and being able to work out bugs and production problems without direct competition. They'll have "greatest hits" titles sooner, and they'll be able to drop prices earlier.

 

[TigerKnee]

My wife just bought me a X360 Premium with a plug and charge kit, PGR3 and NBA2K6 as a gift. They had 6 premiums at the Best Buy near Almeda Mall in Houston.

I love this woman

 

[dorio]

My wife just bought me a X360 Premium with a plug and charge kit, PGR3 and NBA2K6. They had 6 premiums at the Best Buy near Almeda Mall in Houston.

I love this woman

Pretty!

I reiterate that the worldwide launch isn't the problem its the production of the unit. They don't have to concentrate on solving the problem in multiple territories. If they fix their production problems then they can allocate units to territories according to demand. Why are customers who bought units outside of the US less deserving? The question is how would just launching in the US have solved their production problem? I really want to know.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Uh, no.

Xbox 360 Physically Sold Units - 600,000 (Nov + Dec)
Xbox 360 Mindshare Units Sold - 2,900,000 (Nov + Dec)
Xbox 360 Momentum Units Sold - 3,730,000 (Nov + Dec)

Wha? :lol

 

[trmas]

All right, I loathe MS more than probably anyone on this board, but some of this is ridiculous. There are several factors that have to play out before we know JUST how much of a screwup this is. What is the price of the PS3 going to be? My guess is $400 but Sony might just go for the $500 mark - that will hurt them with Joe Average consumer. When is the PS3 coming out, and will they maintain the exclusives they had that ensured their absolute DOMINANCE this past generation?

As much as hardcore gamers care about graphics, the average consumer isn't as enthralled. MS has screwed the pooch royally on this launch several times, and they will be lucky to have a 5 million unit lead (BTW, the problem is yields on the Xenos and IBM CPU according to a friend who works for IBM). Will Sony be able to put together a convincing online strategy? Live is a luxury, and not that many people play videogames online, but that will start to change by the end of the next generation. Yes, the 360 is completely screwed in Japan, but MS better stop neglecting Europe. If Sony continues to treat European gamers as second-rate, MS could make inroads there.

Too much is still in question, but a LOT of the people who could have purchased the 360 are being forced to wait until closer to the E3 timeframe. If E3 is anything like last year, MS can kiss any hopes of catching Sony goodbye - they better have something convincing for the Fall to go up against the PS3 which will have had a LOT longer development time for first-generation software. And if MS 2nd generation looks only just as good as PS3 first generation software, will that be enough? Nothing is certain.

And NOONE knows what Nintendo will do; they will go their own way and to hell with what anyone else thinks - that is the way it has always been.

 

[AirBrian]

Here is a stat, how many PS3s have been sold vs 360s?

Isn't that more of a question than a statistic?

 

[Link]

It's much more valid to look at the GameCube and predict that the Revo will be dead in the water than to say the DS has anything to do with the success or failure of the Big (fat, lazy, incompetent) N's next home console.

That's clever. You're clever.

 

[Amir0x]

Wha? :lol

Figure it out!

 

[Outcast2004]

MS am drop ball total.

This is just pathetic, wtf is going on? What happened to the weekly replenishment of X360's?

Weekly replenishment?

Myth...completely a myth.

A lot of stores never even saw a second shipment, let alone regular replenishment.

WAY TO GO MS!

 

[dorio]

Who here wants a 360 and can't find one?