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[Renzoku]

They should be careful. If they start coding any closer to the metal with the secret sauce, it might puncture the chassis and the sauce will start oozing out into the real world.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I actually like it when he does these sarcastic/joke comment. So if he's back in the game, that's more than welcome by me.

I'm just playing. I don't want the green dino's head.

 

[Crayon]

I'm sure the new sdk is lovely. And microsoft's engineers are probably very supportive of big third party efforts. I predict "the gap" between ps4's exclusive and multiplatform games will get wider as a result.

 

[Conduit]

I don't see MS making a fuss here... Techland said about the optimisations of esram, not Microsoft.

Re: Ground Zeroes. It was 720p, but also 60fps with launch tools which we know were shitty. Looking at how things have improved: 10% Kinect reserve, further optimisations, better tools all round and every other game being 900p or 12(3)XX x 1080 (Halo 2A, FC4, CODAW) I'm not concerned about TPP

What about PES 2015?

 

[Arkanius]

What about PES 2015?

Same engine (Fox Engine)

 

[wachie]

It seems that with continuous improvements to both consoles, the performance gap is indeed narrowing down.

That narrative.

 

[Final Verdict]

900p is acceptable now?

honestly 900p is not a huge difference from 1080p

I would know because I played and compared the Destiny beta for X1 900p with the full game 1080p, and I didn't really notice a difference.

Spoiler

(actually, I saw destiny on the 360, and HOLY CRAP does it still look good for a 360 game)

So yeah, 1080p is what is ultimately desired, but I would prefer 900p with solid performance over 1080p with drops.

 

[Conduit]

Same engine (Fox Engine)

Yes, i know it is the same engine. But game was not made with launch tools.

Quote from article :

. It seems that with continuous improvements to both consoles, the performance gap is indeed narrowing down.

So, both consoles have SDK improvements, but gap is narrowing. WTF??

 

[Unknown One]

I wish my 760 can perform like a 780 *rolls eyes*

 

[Sir Abacus]

Wouldn't the end result be better performing games. Not that average people can notice the difference.

It's kind of like moving the deckchairs on a cruise ship for the sake of aerodynamics.

 

[Final Verdict]

I'm sure the new sdk is lovely. And microsoft's engineers are probably very supportive of big third party efforts. I predict "the gap" between ps4's exclusive and multiplatform games will get wider as a result.

What?
I don't really see a huge gap here....

I mean sure the Order looks great, but it has to use black bars on top and bottom just to maintain a stable framerate, and yeah UC4 looks good, but ND has always led the industry in graphics since UC2 (in my opinion) so I don't really see a huge graphical gap here...

Batman Arkham Knight, The Division, and The Witcher 3 are some great examples of 3rd party games that look just as impressive (in my opinion) if not more so than anything exclusive on PS4.

 

[walltowall]

The SDK is also constantly being improved?

The biggest jump we'll see imo, like it was for PS3, will be when ND will incorporate their own tweaks in the WWS SDK and engines.
Guerilla is probably also helping quite a bit.

This. I'm super excited to see what ND, Guerilla(when not rushed), PD, 343i, Turn 10 (when not rushed) ,Lionhead, and Black Tusk bring to their respective consoles. RAD and Rare have shown impressive tech thus far.

 

[walltowall]

I knew MS would eventually bridge the gap. So much for PS4 having the advantage for the rest of this generation. Seems pretty clear that any attempts by Sony to pull away will be met with aggressive SDK updates from MS.

And price cuts!

 

[Shaunboy97]

Sony doesn't have to do anything, actually. They still have the most powerful console by a long shot.

...Your definition of "long shot" is different than mine

 

[BlackBuzzard]

What?
I don't really see a huge gap here....

I mean sure the Order looks great, but it has to use black bars on top and bottom just to maintain a stable framerate, and yeah UC4 looks good, but ND has always led the industry in graphics since UC2 (in my opinion) so I don't really see a huge graphical gap here...

Batman Arkham Knight, The Division, and The Witcher 3 are some great examples of 3rd party games that look just as impressive (in my opinion) if not more so than anything exclusive on PS4.

Tales from the booty? or do you have a source that says that is the reason?

 

[Shaunboy97]

honestly 900p is not a huge difference from 1080p

I would know because I played and compared the Destiny beta for X1 900p with the full game 1080p, and I didn't really notice a difference.

Spoiler

(actually, I saw destiny on the 360, and HOLY CRAP does it still look good for a 360 game)

So yeah, 1080p is what is ultimately desired, but I would prefer 900p with solid performance over 1080p with drops.

I agree... 720 - 900 is noticeable but 900 - 1080 is damn near identical depending on shaders and AA!! Hell I own all 3 systems and Mario Kart 8 in motion with 60fps looks similar to a 1080p game...

 

[hesido]

So, both consoles have SDK improvements, but gap is narrowing. WTF??

The gap could still narrow with one SDK having more effective improvements than the other. Not thinking that this is the case tho.

 

[Kinyou]

If this gets Phantom Pain up to 900p , then Phil Spencer has my sword, my axe, and my bow.

I sure hope so. Wasn't Ground zero also before the kinect was removed and the xbox got overall a little faster? 900p should be minimum.

 

[Zophar]

I knew MS would eventually bridge the gap. So much for PS4 having the advantage for the rest of this generation. Seems pretty clear that any attempts by Sony to pull away will be met with aggressive SDK updates from MS.

Haha what? No SDK optimization in the world is going to overcome a raw hardware spec gap.

It's also pretty sad people are excited that TPP might be 900p now. Talk about lowered expectations.

 

[Steverulez]

What about PES 2015?

I already replied about that earlier. Last I knew about that Konami said MS were handling it and I didnt hear anything else. I havent played PES either, so I have no idea what its like

 

[Papacheeks]

I don't care what it can do, I can see what it's doing now. MGS V GZ is an ugly ass game. Snake's 120p dithered beard doesn't impress me.

Guess you have no interest in Metal Gear Solid 5 then huh? Because for what that game has going on for mechanics, and open world like structure, it looks impressive.

Visually looks great for how open the area's are, animations for horses and some of the lighting looks great in that game.

 

[NerdEyeBlind]

Wow, I don't know much about programming, but I didn't know that software updates can improve hardware performance. Kudos to all involved.

 

[SeanTSC]

I sure hope so. Wasn't Ground zero also before the kinect was removed and the xbox got overall a little faster? 900p should be minimum.

It doesn't matter how much more performance the XB1 gets if TPP's Deferred Engine framebuffer's size can't fit into the tiny 32MB of ESRAM at a resolution that high.

It's not about performance, or GPU or CPU power, it's about size vs size and how big the framebuffer is and how small the ram is.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

The gap could still narrow with one SDK having more effective improvements than the other. Not thinking that this is the case tho.

Well from dev statements the Xbox SDK was pretty shitty at launch.

So if you imagine the ps4 started at 0 and X1 at -5 then the gap will be smaller once they both make it to 10 even though the hardware remains static.

Also Xbox was and still is reserving more power for things like kinect, snap, multitasking, and instant resume. As the reservations for those things are reduced that will also make the "gap" smaller

 

[DirgeExtinction]

It seems that with continuous improvements to both consoles, the performance gap is indeed narrowing down.

That makes no sense.

 

[El-Pistolero]

I hope this regular SDK Update will mark some improvements on older titles if possible. Always good to see MS constantly updating the Dash stuff and the development software.

That is not retroactive... oO

 

[Ol No Bones]

Why is it everytime there is a Xbox thread somebody brings Sony up and vice versa?

It's so annoying...

The same reason Xbox is brought up in Sony threads. The console wars are serious business and not for the light hearted.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Why is it everytime there is a Xbox thread somebody brings Sony up and vice versa?

It's so annoying...

Maybe because the excerpt in the OP mentions both consoles?

 

[EGM1966]

That makes no sense.

The narrative the source site is pushing is obvious, including the parity orientated ganes they choose as examples.

Don't get me wrong it's good for gamers and developers MS continue to improve SDK and make it easier and cheaper to produce good games that perform well but the source is trying to take the SDK improvements and push a narrative of gaps closing even with PS4 SDK improvements (which they fail to detail nor why the gap is closing if both consoles are improving).

TBH the main reason for more games with sane resolution and frame rate is developers targeting parity or close to it (which makes sense from a cost point of view for multi-platform titles) where possible.

The real benefits of SDK improvements are in terms of cost and stability which is good news of course.

 

[luca_29_bg]

What?
I don't really see a huge gap here....

I mean sure the Order looks great, but it has to use black bars on top and bottom just to maintain a stable framerate, and yeah UC4 looks good, but ND has always led the industry in graphics since UC2 (in my opinion) so I don't really see a huge graphical gap here...

Batman Arkham Knight, The Division, and The Witcher 3 are some great examples of 3rd party games that look just as impressive (in my opinion) if not more so than anything exclusive on PS4.

wrong.

 

[Portugeezer]

Meanwhile at Sony...

Meanwhile... PS4 SDK's gradually improve and don't try to prove a point that they can "catch up". (albeit in this case it was a developer, not MS)

 

[dragonelite]

Wow, I don't know much about programming, but I didn't know that software updates can improve hardware performance. Kudos to all involved.

Cut down iteration times increase optimization effort.

 

[JordanN]

I knew MS would eventually bridge the gap. So much for PS4 having the advantage for the rest of this generation. Seems pretty clear that any attempts by Sony to pull away will be met with aggressive SDK updates from MS.

You know something I don't get. If it was possible for MS to magically take weaker hardware and have it match a 2x stronger one via updates, what's stop Sony from saying "the PS4 is going to match a 3.6 Tflop GPU or R9 280X"?

It's the same logic. AMD and Nvidia would also capitalize on it too. Why bother selling high end cards at all if they can make their weaker ones stronger somehow?

 

[sinnergy]

wrong.

Nah it's pretty much true, as it's for artistic but also for performance as you render less pixels, so that power can be used elsewhere,, it's that simple.

 

[BigJoeGrizzly]

wrong.

Wrong.

Nah it's pretty much true, as it's for artistic but also for performance as you render less pixels, so that power can be used elsewhere,, it's that simple.

Bingo.

 

[omonimo]

Well from dev statements the Xbox SDK was pretty shitty at launch.

So if you imagine the ps4 started at 0 and X1 at -5 then the gap will be smaller once they both make it to 10 even though the hardware remains static.

Also Xbox was and still is reserving more power for things like kinect, snap, multitasking, and instant resume. As the reservations for those things are reduced that will also make the "gap" smaller

Yeah GZ it's 720p because SDK was shit not because ESRAM can't fit deferred light, especially with 60 fps.

 

[Portugeezer]

Nah it's pretty much true, as it's for artistic but also for performance as you render less pixels, so that power can be used elsewhere,, it's that simple.

No. The reasoning is false.

There aren't black bars because they have to (e.g. like lower resolution XB1 games); we have known from the beginning that they were making the game this way, this has been discussed to death and the developers stated that running the game 1920x1080 (no black bars) with no AA has less of a performance hit than black bars with the 4xMSAA (and some other form of AA mixed) they are using.

So essentially they told us they can have the game full 1080p with no black bars and with a lower AA solution, but that is not their vision.

 

[Dr. Kaos]

Meanwhile Sony is working on their own SDK performance improvements and don't have to work towards reaching parity with competitors. Also, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't PS4 have more in terms of raw potential from future SDK updates?

Well yeah, that's what I meant. I think people mistook it for saying sony is just sitting down doing nothing, when this is just the status quo.

 

[pixelbox]

Yeah exactly. If anything the performance gap will increase over time.

What does it say?

 

[sinnergy]

No. The reasoning is false.

There aren't black bars because they have to (e.g. like lower resolution XB1 games); we have known from the beginning that they were making the game this way, this has been discussed to death and the developers stated that running the game 1920x1080 (no black bars) with no AA has less of a performance hit than black bars with the 4xMSAA (and some other form of AA mixed) they are using.

So essentially they told us they can have the game full 1080p with no black bars and with a lower AA solution, but that is not their vision.

Yeah I also read the PR, but never mind this thread is not about The Order.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Yeah GZ it's 720p because SDK was shit not because ESRAM can't fit deferred light, especially with 60 fps.

Never said anything about GZ or esram. Was speaking on the overall perfomance of games.

What's with you dude?

 

[Astral Dog]

"Performance gap is narrowing!"

*Gives example of GTA5 which has clear GPU superiority for PS4*


Resolution and framerate don't make things equal pals. There's no overcoming a GPU disparity of 50 percent.

Its still a good thing for Xbox owners, i guess, they should stop comparing to PS4, if Xbox One can have at least a comparable version with decent framerate, thats good.

 

[Angelus Errare]

If MS keeps going at this rate, we'll reach parity by 2020.

 

[RBK]

Whatever helps I guess.

Really don't know the technical terms of it all.

 

[CoG]

Sucks that deferred rendering is not common this generation because of the Xbone's architecture.

 

[Portugeezer]

Yeah I also read the PR, but never mind this thread is not about The Order.

I wasn't aware you read it as you seemed ignorant to the details.

 

[Astral Dog]

I agree... 720 - 900 is noticeable but 900 - 1080 is damn near identical depending on shaders and AA!! Hell I own all 3 systems and Mario Kart 8 in motion with 60fps looks similar to a 1080p game...

900P still has to stretch the image to fill the tv.
Mario Kart 8 has very bad IQ even on my 720P TV, other Wii U games look better imo.

 

[walltowall]

I wasn't aware you read it as you seemed ignorant to the details.

Dig them heels in

 

[curiouscharles]

If MS keeps going at this rate, we'll reach parity by 2020.

honestly can't tell if joking...

honestly can't tell if trolling...

i only own an xbone & pc [so far - wii-u is next, then maybe ps4], but i'll readily admit you can't make up a 40% hardware differential with software adjustments... sorry.

 

[magnumpy]

xbox one will always be weaker. their is extra hardware in the PS4, additional compute units etc. that can't be ameliorated with software updates. XB1 just physically does not have the same hardware power as PS4.