Pagusas
Elden Member
We are well past the age where consoles were distinctively different. They all, including the switch, are just PC's now.
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Xbox Scarlet to include an eight-core Zen 2 7-nm CPU
- Thread starter GermanZepp
- Start date
We are well past the age where consoles were distinctively different. They all, including the switch, are just PC's now.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Jaguar (used in X1/PS4) is a low-end netbook (remember netbooks?) CPU design that was laughably inferior to desktop CPUs available at the time.
Zen 2 is AMD’s high end CPU design for next year that should be at or near the top of the performance charts.
It’s a massive upgrade. Easily several times the performance.
SlashBringingHasher
Banned
Sony should launch the ps5 in march, I personally think they might. march 2020. in the 20th anniversary of the greatest console ever. the PS2.
SlashBringingHasher
Banned
jaguar was worse than CPUs from 2010 from intel. amd was struggling at that point in history. its a garbage CPU. which is why many ps4 and xbox games can't go upto 60 even tho the GPU is capable of it.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I'm sure they mean next-gen as in AMD's next series of GPUs i.e. Navi. It's possible/probable Scarlett gets features from the GPU after Navi.
Insane Metal
Member
lolCirca 2013
VAL0R
Banned
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VAL0R
Banned
Sams summary of MS gameplan 2019-2020:
- Discless X1S next Spring with discless attach feature called project Roma - allows you to buy services like Game Pass and XBL at checkout and the unit comes to you prepped and ready with the services you ordered available.
- Scarlett launch in 2020
- Zen 2 architecture, AMD next-gen GPU tech, 4k60fps the rule not the exception
- Option 1) Streaming "stick" service, more for casuals, XCloud, next-gen gaming at a low price point, plays all games, he suggests it may be cost as little as $115.00
- Option 2) High-end traditional box with all bells and whistles available
- Back Compat emphasis will continue
- MS considered buying EA
- MS still considering buying Discord
- Discless X1S next Spring with discless attach feature called project Roma - allows you to buy services like Game Pass and XBL at checkout and the unit comes to you prepped and ready with the services you ordered available.
- Scarlett launch in 2020
- Zen 2 architecture, AMD next-gen GPU tech, 4k60fps the rule not the exception
- Option 1) Streaming "stick" service, more for casuals, XCloud, next-gen gaming at a low price point, plays all games, he suggests it may be cost as little as $115.00
- Option 2) High-end traditional box with all bells and whistles available
- Back Compat emphasis will continue
- MS considered buying EA
- MS still considering buying Discord
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Really don't see any big third-parties wanting their retail sales tanked by being offered via streaming rather than purchase on a single platform!
So don't expect such low-end streaming box to be in any way equivalent to a proper console.
I'd also add that its value proposition basically depends on it being better than, or having more utility than a pure software client running on a PC, tablet, phone whatever. Because basically that's what its competing with, and those clients will be free downloads...
So don't expect such low-end streaming box to be in any way equivalent to a proper console.
I'd also add that its value proposition basically depends on it being better than, or having more utility than a pure software client running on a PC, tablet, phone whatever. Because basically that's what its competing with, and those clients will be free downloads...
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Too lazy to google it, but can anyone here tell how good a Zen cpu would be?
All these AMD acronyms over the years..... Jag, Polaris, Ryzen etc....... There's more and probably mixing them up. Where does Zen fit in?
Ryzen is top dog right? Is Zen number 2?
All these AMD acronyms over the years..... Jag, Polaris, Ryzen etc....... There's more and probably mixing them up. Where does Zen fit in?
Ryzen is top dog right? Is Zen number 2?
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VAL0R
Banned
How would this affect sales negatively? You buy the game from the MS Store and then MS allows you to stream it from their servers. The only person cut out is the retail middle-man. Not every game will be Game Pass. That will be developer choice.
Zen is AMD's newest CPU architecture so it's natural that the next generation of consoles will utilize that. In terms of price, performance, power and scalability Zen blows away all of AMD's previous architectures by a country mile. Polaris architecture is the outgoing AMD GPUs and AMD's newest GPU architecture is Navi.
Jaguar/Zen = CPU
Polaris/Navi = GPU
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
How will they mandate this? Or is this the loose term of "the rule" like with 1080p on the base PS4?
kingwingin
Member
The rule for first party releases, third parties can do what they wish
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I doubt it'll be that simple, they aren't going to allow you make a one-off payment and have perpetual streaming access. If your subscription lapses, your purchases will be inaccessible in the exact same way that stopping XBL payments blocks online play in your bought-and-paid-for software library.
Essentially making the purchase a sort of extended rental.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
For me to dish out money next gen on new consoles, they need to do 4k @ 60fps easily and without compromise.
Also, off topic, Nintendo's revision better offer 1080p standard next year if they want to keep up.
Also, off topic, Nintendo's revision better offer 1080p standard next year if they want to keep up.
Armorian
Banned
You mean sceen on unit itself? 1080p to tv is a given but I'm not sure about handheld mode, maybe 900p with 1600x900 screen? That would be great.
ZywyPL
Banned
It's not so obvious - bare in mind AMD custom chips are always at least a year behind their desktop/laptop products. Few examples - 14nm process was already available before PS4/XB1 were launching, but we had to wait for their refreshes three years later to utilize it. Ryzen CPU was available on the market for some time, but X1X still launched with (modified) Jaguar CPU.
So for next-gen consoles Zen-based CPU was a given, MAYBE Zen+, but Zen2? And 7nm? When they will ba available somwhere next year for the desktop market? Not to mention that next-gen GPU when Navi won't be available untill next year as well? Amazing news if all of this comes out to be true. It would mean that they either have an extremely tight production schedlue, or the 2020 will actually be a "paper" release with super short supplies, with the actual mass production starting in 2021.
If true, this will single-handedly win the upcoming generation for them. As PS4 shown, saturating the market with as much user base as possible, it's THE key to everything - software sales, service sales, DLC sales, accessories sales, everything follows directly on how the platform sells itself.
I'm on the same boat. The current-gen graphics are way more then enough for me - RDR2, GoW, TLoU2, UC4, Death Stranding, Battlefield, Gears 4, Quantum Break, Tomb Raider etc. all look absulutely stunning, just add native 4K, Ultra taxtures and 60FPS and I will gladly sell my PC and never come back to it again.
Depends on what hardware will be put inside, a Turing-based GPU could easily do the job, and/or they can add G-Sync support and don't have to aim for rock-solid 60FPS. Or they could turn to AMD for a complete 7nm solution, with heavily underclocked Ryzen+Navi combo, like let's say 1,2-1,6GHz 4C/4T Ryzen, and 400-800MHz 12-16CU Navi. Not to mention the possibilities of super easy ports from other consoles it would give. I fricking love the whole concept of the Switch, but the performance is simply not there, and what comes with it - the games library.
Armorian
Banned
It's Nintendo we are talking about so keep expectations in check
Turings without Tensors are just slighty better than Pascals (we will see that with 2060) and Switch could get first 7nm GPU from Nvidia. Pascal or turing arch. won't make much difference, maybe they will bump up the ram and cpu clock speeds. Switch (lol) to AMD is (99%) not gonna happen.
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JimiNutz
Banned
They really should launch with Halo as well. Even if Infinite is ready to launch before the next Xbox they should have an upgraded port ready for day one.
Indeed and I do keep that in mind. If AMD's "leaked" lineup for next year is true we'll be seeing a Zen 2 + Navi APU (3600G) in Q3 2019. Of course this is technically a rumor, but some people "in the know" have basically confirmed that the lineup is real minus some details which weren't specified.
Even though Ryzen was available it's a completely different architecture than Jaguar and could have posed backward compatibility issues (that could have delayed a launch) with existing Xbox One games so it made sense to continue to work with the existing components of the system for backwards compatibility purposes, beef it up a bit with more cache, higher clock frequency and to keep costs in check. Sony did the exact same thing with the PlayStation 4 Pro a year earlier.
I'm going to hedge my bets on Zen 2 + Navi APU for PlayStation 5 and Scarlett simply because of the power efficiency increase and the amount of real estate they'll be saving on the silicon with 7nm. To me it just makes sense, but I'd be perfectly fine with Zen+ @ 14nm + Navi @ 7nm and memory controllers @ 14nm. I personally do not believe a next generation console will be launching next year, but I do believe there will be a PlayStation Meeting or PlayStation Experience announcement of a PlayStation Meeting in 2020 and launch the same year (2020). When PlayStation 4 launched mass production of the console started only 1-2 months before release if I remember correctly. I think at this point it is really just about finalizing the hardware and getting support behind it.
Edit: Forgot to note that even though 14nm was available, the Jaguar architecture was not reworked for that process and it was more expensive. Eventually everything went to 16nm where it remains today. I don't think we'll be seeing another shrink for this generation of consoles.
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VAL0R
Banned
He was using the phrase "it will be the rule and not the exception" to mean Scarlett will be powerful enough so that games with 4k60fps will be the standard, not the exception. He wasn't referencing any actual "rule" from MS.
VAL0R
Banned
To be clear he didn't say he got that price point from a source. I think that's his own speculation based on earlier reports of a much lower cost device. I agree that if MS goes to ~$100 with Scarlett XCloud, they win.
ZywyPL
Banned
Sony is not certifying VR games if they drop below 60FPS even once, same can be applied to any other game, since MS/Sony are the platform holders and have the final word on whether a game is coming to their platform or not.
I know, but a 250$ "next-gen" console, let alone anything below it, would be an absolutely brilliant offer for an average Joe.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Really don't see it myself. The only way a box like that works is if its given for free as part of a long-term subscription. Because if you stop paying its going to be a brick.
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squarealex
Member
LOLOLOLOL
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
Yeah, docked. Of course, unless they decide to remove the bezels and increase the real estate on the screen, then it should be full HD.
Justin9mm
Member
Are you serious? lol.. How far away from the TV do you game? I have a 70 inch 4K and I'm like 3 meters from it and I can tell you there is a huge difference!
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
LOL.
I have a 4k tv and even watching dedicated 4k tv channels vs the standard HD channel (which I think they pump out 1080i), there's a noticeable difference in clarity watching sports.
As for gaming, the first game I booted up with my new X and 4k TV was Gears 4. The title page alone was amazingly clear. A combo of better tv and X textures even makes the dude's pores show on screen.
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ethomaz
Banned
Well with a 70 inch 4k TV you need to be at least 1.35 meters closer to the TV to noticed the addiction resolution. At 3 meter you won’t see difference between 1080p and 4k.
https://carltonbale.com/does-4k-resolution-matter/
BTW these are manufacturers recomendaríamos too.
Depending how close you are from TV of course you will see noticeable difference.
X does boost graphics in Gears 4 that is why even far away from your TV you see difference but to see these 4k pixels you need to be closer to TV depending of the size.
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TLZ
Banned
Yet that still gave us great looking games. Then these next cpus should be something else. Yeesh.
Justin9mm
Member
That's utter crap, I don't care what those article measurements are or what you say.. You are wrong! 3 Meters on a 70 is not that far.. I can definitely tell!
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I’d prefer this. If both consoles perform near identically then the focus is solely on which games you like more
Dirk Benedict
Member
April Fools has been confirmed.
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LittleBusters
Banned
8K/120fps will be a must in 8 years.
SonGoku
Member
12Dannu123
Member
It's very possible, the only difference would be image quality. It will be able to stream all XB360/XB1 and Scarlett games same with traditional Scarlett box. So it'll likely have 30/60FPS experience but maybe at 720p to 1080p image quality depending on the game.
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PocoJoe
Banned
4k is just pure waste of resources. Funny how so many at here laugh at people whom state the fact that 1080p vs 4k = no difference after certain distance
It is just fysical fact that they look the same after certain distance.
And casuals usually sit damm far from their tv, 3-5m so 4k == fullhd.
With unlimited power, why not to target it. But if/when next gen is just 2-4x ps4 pro = graphical jump will be smaller if all games target 4k
Same with 60fps, it is smoother but also waste of resources because stable 30fps is enough for many kind of games, those that have bad reflexes/ability to adapt can play with pc and 144hz.
It is just fysical fact that they look the same after certain distance.
And casuals usually sit damm far from their tv, 3-5m so 4k == fullhd.
With unlimited power, why not to target it. But if/when next gen is just 2-4x ps4 pro = graphical jump will be smaller if all games target 4k
Same with 60fps, it is smoother but also waste of resources because stable 30fps is enough for many kind of games, those that have bad reflexes/ability to adapt can play with pc and 144hz.
ZywyPL
Banned
Agree. Those graphs might apply to ordinary movies, television etc. but most certainly not to computer generated image, a.k.a. games - if there is no difference at certain distance, then how the hell there are still jaggies when no AA is applied? 4K is perfectly razor sharp but if rendered on a 1080p screen, but on native 4K we are still not there yet. It's a great upgrade compared to FullHD I cannot deny, but 55-65" 8K displays is where we will be able to finally say good bye to AA I believe. Until then, all those graphs are completely meaningless.
I think that's actually gonna be a standard, at least for a first few years - XB2/PS5 will be receiving mostly (if not only) cross-gen titles at the beginning, nobody will abandon those 120MLN+ user base just like that, and Pro/X already do 4K30, so all the remaining power of new consoles will easily allow to double the framerate, with maybe some minor graphical upgrades. In the worst case scenario the devs won't do anything but the Boost Modes or BC will do all the job, either way 4K60 on every title should be easily doable.
Fully agree, let's go back to 7th gen 600p 24-26FPS, just imagine the graphics the devs will be able to push when no power will be wasted on gimmicks like resolution and framerate! /s
I just split my morning coffee, thanks but no thanks...
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I do not think even 8-16K will be where we give up on AA. It is a signal sampling problem (well sampling frequency one). In order to be aliasing free without a filter (AA), you need to sample at at least 2x the frequency than the signal you are trying to represent. Else you get “jaggies” or in general a disturbed / aliased representation.
You can imagine trying to sample a signal with an almost comically large dynamic range / infinite frequencies so without trying to intelligently (and in a stable way) to discard those components that actually generate aliasing instead of simply trying a brute force approach.
What makes a lot of the movies you like super awesome (even on DVD at 480p) is the anti aliasing of dynamic surfaces, edges, and textures as well as motion blur (temporal anti aliasing).
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
This sounds like a new kind of "can't see moar than 24fpssssss!" type post.
ethomaz
Banned
Any TV manufacture ever said that you can’t see over 24fps? Sorry but no.
Now the distance of view for 4k is real and manufactures explain that in FAQs.
lol Yeap utter crap lol
You need to be at least at 1.35m to see these 4k pixels.
I will check later but you can see difference between 1080p and 900p up to 3m depending of the size of the display... that is a far away distance... most play closer.
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ZywyPL
Banned
I sort of agree, however, as smartphones perfectly show, once you reach a certain level of PPI the problem completely vanishes, you just reach a point where a single pixel is sooo tiny that you can't notice it even from one feet away. Luckily, people are not able to fit any larger screens into their houses that what the market already offers (55-65"), so the only thing that will go up from now on is the resolution, hence the PPI in TVs will finally start to increase.