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Xbox Series X VR Support

dvdvideo

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If they were even remotely thinking about it short term, it would have likely leaked by now. Long term, for mass market appeal, the price needs to be cheap and really the console should have some sort of seperate high speed wireless interface from the console to the headset. Wires suck.
 

Ar¢tos

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So far, this is the Xbox plan for console VR:


and when they finally decide to jump on the console VR market, everyone that was really interested in VR already has a ps5.
I think they are wasting an opportunity. VR is not huge, but it keeps slowly growing, the specs of nextgen consoles will finally allow for decent AA/AAA VR games and the image quality difference will bring a lot of new consumers, increasing install bases and the interest of bigger 3rd party publishers.
If both PS5 and XSX had VR within one year of launch, VR market would grow much faster in comparison to only PS5 having a VR solution.
 

kuncol02

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Only game that was decent in that list was Beat Sabre and could be played with a Kinect if they chose.

That’s the sad thing. They are mostly Kinect games with a screen strapped to your face.
I don't know what kind of drugs you are taking, but consider half of dose. Half-Life is GOTY with no other contender for now. Ace Combat even that it's just few missions on PSVR only is one of best experiences you can have in gaming in some time.
 

yurinka

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This is such bullsh*t. PSVR is the biggest VR has ever been. It is an expensive peripheral for sure; makes sense that the attachrate isn't enormously high. Doesn't mean it "isn't worth it from an investment standpoint". I think MS is making a big mistake not chipping in, I don't think they will be able to catch up (especially on the VR exclusives front, with bangers like Astrobot and Blood & Truth from Sony) after PSVR2 comes out in a couple of years.

And PSVR hasn't "completely stagnated", it's doing very well. Lots of great games come out all the time, you just gotta pay attention.
Totally agree. I think PSVR had a key meaning for the VR market stability success on its first generation, which I think will be key to go mainstream on its second or third generation. Without Sony backing VR, many hardware companies wouldn't have invested on VR, and many devs or publishers wouldn't have bet on VR. All that work made by everyone will fluorish on maturing the technology behind the hardware and games for the next generation of VR.

I'm pretty sure PSVR2 (looking at patents, PS5 hardware architecture and DualSense design it's super clear they are working on a PSRVR2) will be a big step on solving most of the issues that PSVR had and to mature the technology.

In the same way that without the early Remote Play between PS3 and PSP or later between PS4, Vita and PC there wouldn't exist the next gen Remote Play on PS5 and everything, and the same with whatever name uses Xbox for it.

Same goes with streaming. Sony made the first big bet with PS Now, and without that now Stadia or Gamepass, Xcloud and the next gen PS Now (we know trough a shareholders meeting explaining their future vision that they plan to improve it on many ways) wouldn't exist.

Or well, same happened with camera tracking and waggle. PSVR and its Move controller exist thanks to the success of Eyetoy, in which its early prototypes from 2000 I think already had that stick with a big colored ball as controller.

Sure, the first iteration of new technologies isn't perfect, isn't mainstream and have a lot of room to improve. But this innovative technology is important, and keeps evolving every generation. For Sony it's also good to be the innovators because it gives them extra market share, knowledge, experience and a bigger catalog, that later will very likely pay off once that specific technology goes mainstream.

The role of PSVR wasn't to go mainstream on its first step. It was to set the foundations of the technology on consoles with an early adopter userbase and start researching on it to keep solving its issues for the upcoming generations, when it will go mainstream.

Regarding Microsoft and VR, I think that in the same way Stadia partnered with (obviously) YouTube to share and make interactions between the video streams and the game streams, I think MS decided to give Mixer to Facebook to do the same between xCloud and FB videos/FB gaming as a first step to collaborate with them to make Oculus the VR HMD for Xbox and MS PC games.
 
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Romulus

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Only game that was decent in that list was Beat Sabre and could be played with a Kinect if they chose.

That’s the sad thing. They are mostly Kinect games with a screen strapped to your face.
How can you say the only decent game is Beat Saber? Astrobot isn't even decent? Agenda revealed. In fact, he left a fair amount of games off his list.

And I don't think you understand what VR is. It's nothing like Kinect with wands.
 

jimbojim

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How can you say the only decent game is Beat Saber? Astrobot isn't even decent? Agenda revealed. In fact, he left a fair amount of games off his list.

And I don't think you understand what VR is. It's nothing like Kinect with wands.
Of course i did. That's why i said "and so on"
 

The Alien

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It is a deal about streaming or VR?
Streaming to help support Cloud (and access that pool of users on FB and IG). I was only saying it could be interesting.

But clearly FB has VR gaming ambitions (futher supported by purchases of Oculus and Ready at Dawn).
 

Romulus

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People still care about VR?
Oh yeah. I think it hung around because it works incredibly well with flight and racing simulators, but since then the controllers and screens keep getting better, it's cheaper now, and they've added several AAA exclusive games.

But now it works well with everything, casual, hardcore, shooters.
 
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acm2000

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Still can't afford one?
Haha what a come back, it's not even that expensive... but the truth of the matter is that outside of cockpit games it's kinda pointless gimmicky crap which simply isn't worth the money.

Now if I had a racing chair setup, sure, why not.
 
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Romulus

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Haha what a come back, it's not even that expensive... but the truth of the matter is that outside of cockpit games it's kinda pointless gimmicky crap which simply isn't worth the money.

Now if I had a racing chair setup, sure, why not.
Tbh, cockpit games covers alot when you consider many games have a cockpit option. But I honestly think anything that is flying or driving HAS to be VR, there's just nothing even remotely close. Horror and FPS games like Half Life Alyx are good too, even RPGs.
 
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Resenge

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but the truth of the matter is that outside of cockpit games it's kinda pointless gimmicky crap which simply isn't worth the money.
The most popular VR games are not even cockpit games.

FPS games get a massive improvment in VR, pointing your gun at an enemy and shooting them is something special and blind firing in in VR is just like blind firing in RL, its massive difference from just pressing a button on a controller and your in game char automatically fliping his gun over an obsticle, or using head and hand movement that allows you to signal your teamates with gestures as if you were actually stood with them without saying a word while you are flanking the opposing team, your body movments translate very well in VR so people can read them with better precision.

VR looks terrible on video but VR truly enhances games more than you would understand without actually experiencing it. If you look at some VR games they look like ass, I mean truly asset flip garbage. A lot of VR games I would not give a second look on a flat screen because of how bad they look, but in VR they become something special.

One phrase I commonly see on VR subreddits is "Blown Away" It really is hard to explain what VR can bring to the table to someone who has not experienced the broad range of experiences VR can offer.

I still love flat screen gaming though but to dismiss VR as a gimmick is crazy. Handheld gaming isn't a gimmick and I class VR as just another gaming medium just like handheld gaming. VR headset have been consistently selling out for the past 6 months or more, even the expensive Valve Index. VR is gaining traction and I hope you give it a chance sometime on your favourite gaming genre instead of just dismissing it as a gimmick. You may be surprised at just how VR can enhance it.

Tbh, cockpit games covers alot when you consider many games have a cockpit option. But I honestly think anything that is flying or driving HAS to be VR, there's just nothing even remotely close. Horror and FPS games like Half Life Alyx are good too, even RPGs.
Horror games are on another level compared to the flat screen versions. This is one genre that flat screen gaming cannot compete in. Horror games in VR are massively improved and much scarier than any flat screen version.

Anyway, I am hoping MS brings support for Rift S or even WMR headsets on Xbox Series X, I would love a VR Halo or Gears!
 
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acm2000

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The most popular VR games are not even cockpit games.

FPS games get a massive improvment in VR, pointing your gun at an enemy and shooting them is something special and blind firing in in VR is just like blind firing in RL, its massive difference from just pressing a button on a controller and your in game char automatically fliping his gun over an obsticle, or using head and hand movement that allows you to signal your teamates with gestures as if you were actually stood with them without saying a word while you are flanking the opposing team, your body movments translate very well in VR so people can can read them with better precision.

VR looks terrible on video but VR truly enhances games more than you would understand without actually experiencing it. If you look at some VR games they look like ass, I mean truly asset flip garbage. A lot of VR games I would not give a second look on a flat screen because of how bad they look, but in VR they become something special.

One phrase I commonly see on VR subreddits is "Blown Away" It really is hard to explain what VR can bring to the table to someone who has not experienced the broad range of experiences VR can offer.

I still love flat screen gaming though but to dismiss VR as a gimmick is crazy. Handheld gaming isn't a gimmick and I class VR as just another gaming medium just like handheld gaming. VR headset have been consistently selling out for the past 6 months or more, even the expensive Valve Index. VR is gaining traction and I hope you give it a chance sometime on your favourite gaming genre instead of just dismissing it as a gimmick. You may be surprised at just how VR can enhance it.
But everything required for the above make vr completely useless for main stream, it's a niche market and will be for a very very long time. Most gamers don't want to have to fill their living room with sensors and walk around it attached to a box by wires, hell most don't want to have to sit there wearing a helmet just to play games.

I've used a Vive and psvr many times so I'm not saying VR iself is bad, although as a glasses wearer its a pain, the effect is just as cool as it was back in the days of huge vr arcade cabinets paying £5 for the shortest arcade experience ever 🤣
 

Resenge

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But everything required for the above make vr completely useless for main stream, it's a niche market and will be for a very very long time. Most gamers don't want to have to fill their living room with sensors and walk around it attached to a box by wires, hell most don't want to have to sit there wearing a helmet just to play games.

I've used a Vive and psvr many times so I'm not saying VR iself is bad, although as a glasses wearer its a pain, the effect is just as cool as it was back in the days of huge vr arcade cabinets paying £5 for the shortest arcade experience ever 🤣
Really? You dont buy consoles or computers with monitors? that take up much more space than a Rift S headset does which also does not need sensors. You could go even smaller and get a Oculus Quest which is a stand alone headset that needs no wires and can play PCVR games wirelessly. You do not need a lot of room to play VR, I sit on my couch to play my VR games and hardly ever use roomscale. You are very much out of touch with the current VR tech which was obvious from the first time you commented.
 

Wonko_C

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How can you say the only decent game is Beat Saber? Astrobot isn't even decent? Agenda revealed. In fact, he left a fair amount of games off his list.

And I don't think you understand what VR is. It's nothing like Kinect with wands.
Agreed. There are HUNDREDS of good VR games, but most won't bother researching into them.
 
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-Arcadia-

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I think they will make a deal with FB to bring Oculus to Xbox. It just makes sense and would take little effort on MS part
This seems most likely. Even if Microsoft itself isn't interested in the hardware production costs, and pushing VR as a part of their specific business, letting third parties play with VR hardware and software on the system will accomplish basically the same effect.

Some people might even be happy with that, the ability to use existing products at a variety of prices, rather than a single proprietary solution.

(I'm sure said VR headset manufacturers will be happy to sell millions more units as well)

They should definitely do this though. VR might be a niche, but it's a part of gaming now, and Series X should be a home for all types of gaming. The console tech is finally all the way there, and there's no reason not to do it this gen.
 
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dvdvideo

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I have personally started more vr gaming, but those of you who think its mainstream anytime soon are in denial. It needs the following to become mainstream:

- wider fov (less tunnel vision)
- lighter
- needs to be wireless with higher quality graphics
- higher quality lenses
- less expensive
- more games
- higher resolution panels

Thats a long list, it will be addressed over time but we are talking years, not months
 
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Hendrick's

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I have personally started more vr gaming, but those of you who think its mainstream anytime soon are in denial. It needs the following to become mainstream:

- wider fov (less tunnel vision)
- lighter
- needs to be wireless with higher quality graphics
- higher quality lenses
- less expensive
- more games
- higher resolution panels

Thats a long list, it will be addressed over time but we are talking years, not months
I think that's the trajectory VR hardware has been on. We are not that far off.
 
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Wonko_C

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But everything required for the above make vr completely useless for main stream, it's a niche market and will be for a very very long time. Most gamers don't want to have to fill their living room with sensors and walk around it attached to a box by wires, hell most don't want to have to sit there wearing a helmet just to play games.

I've used a Vive and psvr many times so I'm not saying VR iself is bad, although as a glasses wearer its a pain, the effect is just as cool as it was back in the days of huge vr arcade cabinets paying £5 for the shortest arcade experience ever 🤣
This is true. We're still in the early adopter phase, it happens with every new technology. Adoption will ramp up once it has matured. The first steps are there, though: Headsets are now using inside out tracking so we no longer need to plug sensors, roomscale is mostly dead as players simply prefer standing or sitting in place, and nearly every game is perfectly playable sitting, the cables have been reduced to just one and in a few years it'll be wireless.

Then we have the standalone Oculus Quest which is basically a gaming console with its own set of games, it's main drawback is its lack of power.

The next few years are going to be exciting for VR, we're going to see advancements often, just like when computers went from the 386 to the Pentium 4 in a relatively short period of time.
 

Romulus

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I have personally started more vr gaming, but those of you who think its mainstream anytime soon are in denial. It needs the following to become mainstream:

- wider fov (less tunnel vision)
- lighter
- needs to be wireless with higher quality graphics
- higher quality lenses
- less expensive
- more games
- higher resolution panels

Thats a long list, it will be addressed over time but we are talking years, not months
I mean just look at the progress in a meager 2 years. It's an insane difference.

Also, alot of people feel comfortable with calling VR a gimmick, but when was the last time stuff like Wii or Kinect got games exclusive to it on the level of Half Life, Asgard's Wrath, Lone Echo, Astrobot, Walking Dead or dozens hardcore flight and racing sims?

Never. It's literally solidifying itself as a respectable medium as we speak, without the requirement of mass adoption.

Activity has never really flatlined either. This is over 4 years.






This graph is considering the top 3 headsets were sold out for 6 months, or the curve would be even steeper.
 
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kuncol02

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Maybe Oculus would port over their games which would be a nice boon for Microsoft and Xbox Series X to compete with PSVR?
I don't see that from Oculus side to be fair. They paid lot of money to lure people into their ecosystem. Oculus devices compatible with Xbox is more probable (still not that much).
 

Resenge

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I don't see that from Oculus side to be fair. They paid lot of money to lure people into their ecosystem. Oculus devices compatible with Xbox is more probable (still not that much).
Maybe, but they are not competing with Microsoft. Facebook and Microsoft have business with the Mixer sale recently. Oculus even mentioned trading exclusives with Sony at one point, maybe Sony denied them and they could turn their attention to Microsoft. I am just guessing though.
 
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supernova8

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VR is progressing so fast on a technological level that it's hard to find the right time to jump in. Oculus Quest + Link seems a good point but I'm wary of pulling the trigger in case something else comes out. PSVR was good for increasing awareness of the medium but on a technical level it's dogshit (compared to what's available now). I really hope they can push forward with a new device.

I cannot really see Microsoft bothering with VR on Xbox because then they would have to create hand controllers (which Sony already has) unless they go for a partnership with an existing solution (won't be Oculus because Microsoft will not want to give Facebook any kind of foot in the door). Would be cool if the bought out Pimax or something and improved the tech but I cannot see it happening.
 

Romulus

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PSVR was good for increasing awareness of the medium but on a technical level it's dogshit
I agree its bad compared to other mediums because I own a Rift S. But PSVR's worst offender is the tracking system. And I've noticed with Iron Man VR they're found tricks to really improve it. The devs mentioned this, but I didn't believe it until I tried it. They weren't playing, it works. Not only that, I find the PSVR very comfortable and its actually 120hz capable, which is more than most of the high end headsets. Kind of weird they did that being a console headset.
 
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supernova8

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I agree its bad compared to other mediums because I own a Rift S. But PSVR's worst offender is the tracking system. And I've noticed with Iron Man VR they're found tricks to really improve it. The devs mentioned this, but I didn't believe it until I tried it. They weren't playing, it works. Not only that, I find the PSVR very comfortable and its actually 120hz capable, which is more than most of the high end headsets. Kind of weird they did that being a console headset.
Yeah I actually bought a PSVR right when it released. Had a great time with Astro Bot, Farpoint (didn't buy the light gun, though) and the Resident Evil Kitchen demo shit me the fuck up. Like, I was too much of a pussy to even leave the first room because of the creaking floorboards. I suppose it goes to show that if you have great game design that fits VR, the graphics don't need to be that good.

Can't even imagine what Half Life Alyx is like in comparison.
 

Romulus

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Yeah I actually bought a PSVR right when it released. Had a great time with Astro Bot, Farpoint (didn't buy the light gun, though) and the Resident Evil Kitchen demo shit me the fuck up. Like, I was too much of a pussy to even leave the first room because of the creaking floorboards. I suppose it goes to show that if you have great game design that fits VR, the graphics don't need to be that good.

Can't even imagine what Half Life Alyx is like in comparison.
Yup. It's pretty incredibly honestly. As blown away as I was with PSVR and VR in general, Half Life Alyx nearly matched that wow factor again after being used to the tech. It's still hard for me to imagine it exists. lol
 
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supernova8

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Yup. It's pretty incredibly honestly. As blown away as I was with PSVR and VR in general, Half Life Alyx nearly matched that wow factor again after being used to the tech. It's still hard for me to imagine it exists. lol
Fuuuck don't tempt me into buying PCVR...
I remember watching livestreams the night it was unlocked on Steam and the streamers were going absolutely wild about how good it looked. Problem is I'm rocking an RX 560 right now (budgeting) but on a 3900X, 32GB RAM so if I decide to jump in, I need to simultaneously upgrade my GPU or it'll be pointless.
 
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dvdvideo

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I mean just look at the progress in a meager 2 years. It's an insane difference.

Also, alot of people feel comfortable with calling VR a gimmick, but when was the last time stuff like Wii or Kinect got games exclusive to it on the level of Half Life, Asgard's Wrath, Lone Echo, Astrobot, Walking Dead or dozens hardcore flight and racing sims?

Never. It's literally solidifying itself as a respectable medium as we speak, without the requirement of mass adoption.

Activity has never really flatlined either. This is over 4 years.






This graph is considering the top 3 headsets were sold out for 6 months, or the curve would be even steeper.
The whole vr being sold out for 6 months doesn't really prove anything, it could be a 10,000 unit shortage or a million u it shortage , no way of knowing what was lost.

As to the sales so far, I think they are way less than what was originally expected a few years ago when vr was hot. And 2 million of anything is still a tiny market.

As to the current state of vr games, let's be realistic here, there really are only a handful of truly aaa games, the rest are movie and tech demo or indie games that while fun, don't drive system sales enough. If software truly determines a peice of hardware's success, this is where vr is currently failing the most.
 

NoMoChokeSJ

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Yup. It's pretty incredibly honestly. As blown away as I was with PSVR and VR in general, Half Life Alyx nearly matched that wow factor again after being used to the tech. It's still hard for me to imagine it exists. lol
I'll second this. I was a total VR skeptic but now I have an Oculus and play Alyx using Virtual Desktop, so I can stay wireless. The game is unreal.. BUT... Other games are total barffests for me. Smooth motion makes me feel terrible, which is weird since I don't get motion sick outside of VR. I would never make it through a match of Pavlov. I also loved Moss and can't wait until they release a part 2.
 

BGs

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In VR there are levels of adaptation. You cannot start at level 3 without having previously passed adaptation levels 1 and 2.


Level 1. Static games where you move. Job simulator. Moss. Paint. Etc. The adaptation is usually fast. Level necessary to accustom your whole body.


Level 2. Fast and dynamic games in a static position. Driving games. Ships. Aviation. Etc. Depending on the person, it can take hours or days of periodic use to adapt. If you have not gone through level 1 the experience can be quite uncomfortable.


Level 3. Games with movement that is not in accordance with reality. In which a character walks or advances without your body moving (without using a teleport). For example RE7. Which can generate vertigo even while sitting. It is impossible for the experience to be satisfactory without having accustomed your body to the other levels previously. Sometimes it is even difficult to get fully used to this level even having a lot of adaptation to VR.


Starting with RE7 in VR is the worst thing you can do to value the experience. And if you are not a person who periodically uses VR, I do not recommend more than 15 minutes of play every 2 hours. If you start VR directly with a level 3 experience, you could experience different types of side effects that could last hours or days. And in those circumstances it is logical that your general assessment is negative.


To successfully enjoy VR you must spend time.
 
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AllIsOneIsNone

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I think the smartest thing they could do is make the Series X compatible with designated Windows Mixed Reality headsets. Then whereas Sony may have slightly better quality control for their PSVR2, they'll also only probably have a single upgrade the whole gen compared to the constant stream of WMR headsets coming from different manufacturers (Samsung, HP, Acer, etc.). Granted things might get a bit weird since VR tech has a bunch of innovative things in the pipeline and MS would have to somehow account for that with their headsets, but I think they could figure it out. For example, foveated rendering will actually reduce required power which will enhance performance by an order of magnitude without needing a new console (and due to this tech will actually be able to outperform flat screen gaming when it comes to image quality).

WMR kinda sucks right now, but the HP Reverb G2 looks like the first second gen version as far as tracking, comfort, audio, optics and resolution. The controllers look more akin to the Oculus Touch as well.

I have personally started more vr gaming, but those of you who think its mainstream anytime soon are in denial. It needs the following to become mainstream:

- wider fov (less tunnel vision)
- lighter
- needs to be wireless with higher quality graphics
- higher quality lenses
- less expensive
- more games
- higher resolution panels

Thats a long list, it will be addressed over time but we are talking years, not months
Years is right, but who expected months? The things you listed will all be covered within a year or two except maybe being less expensive, which the tech doesn't really need. There are already sub 200 dollar headsets you can buy, they just aren't that great. No new piece of display hardware + input (motion controls) is going to be or should be cheap. Cost effectiveness is more important, and if you want a 4k screen with excellent optics, tracking, controls, etc. you're going to have to pay for it. It just has to be worth it for more people, and the other stuff you mentioned will make that happen. And dynamic foveated rendering is at the center of it all. Once you see that in consumer headsets, everything else will follow: ultra high resolution (I'm talking 4k per eye easy without extra cost to hardware power-wise). The reduced required rendering this tech will enable also means less required bandwidth and therefore quality wireless without compromise.
 
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Romulus

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The whole vr being sold out for 6 months doesn't really prove anything, it could be a 10,000 unit shortage or a million u it shortage , no way of knowing what was lost.
It proves the demand far exceeded what the manufacturers could pump out. How can you discredit this when it pertains to 6 months(its still difficult now to find them now 9 months later) and across 3 different headsets? This had never happened more than a month previously for a single headset. That's extremely relevant.

As to the sales so far, I think they are way less than what was originally expected a few years ago when vr was hot. And 2 million of anything is still a tiny market.
That's not my point. I'm not looking at short term. And VR wasn't hot 2 years ago at all compared to now. The graph shows it quadrupled in 2 years and the angle of the graph is constantly getting steeper and that's considering it was sold out recently. Significant. Also, PSVR is well over 6 million by this point.

As to the current state of vr games, let's be realistic here, there really are only a handful of truly aaa games.
And sixteen months ago there were zero VR AAA games, this furthers my point about the medium even more. It doesn't need to have massive sales to be a success and enjoy continued success. Look at other so called "gimmicks" like Kinect. It never had a Half Life, Metal of Honor, Star Wars, or Marvel exclusive game for a reason, despite incredibly higher sales. Investors and publishers look at other things besides just the overall number. Consistent growth is one of them. And that's one reason why you'll continue to see AAA games in VR unlike anything seen on other peripherals.
 
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KellyNole

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If you had one you’d know this is a completely false statement.
This. Third person and first person games are amazing. I love not having to control the camera with my thumb. Playing Skyrim in VR is fun. The scale and size of objects and the immersion is incredible. Most games will work in VR, there just hasn't been those big budget titles developed for it. Once VR goes wireless, gets lighter, and drops in price, it will really take off.
 
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