Support NeoGAF

[Schopenhauerian]

What bugs me about this is that she never gave the game a probper chance and only played the first one or two levels a bit. She even called Gex a better game...I don't know in what world this is possible.

I didn't get a chance to listen to her comments in the 4/7/17 podcast (perhaps that's where she mentioned Gex?), but you're right that in her 4/8/17 impressions, she stated she was still early in the game:

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/yooka-laylee-is-breaking-my-damned-heart
Danielle Riendeau
Apr 8 2017, 10:00am
...Its level design, at least a few hours into the game... I've yet to find a world in Yooka-Laylee that conveys... I'm still playing Yooka-Laylee... Maybe there are bigger and more impressive worlds [later on]...

And it also seems that in her 4/12/17 follow-up, she does not actually specify how much farther she played in Yooka-Laylee: it's possible that she simply stopped playing, and it's also possible that she kept playing through the game (as she indicated she would, in the 4/8/17 piece), though in either case it seems clear enough from the 4/12/17 piece that her opinion of Y-L didn't change much, after publishing those initial impressions.

On the other hand, it's notable that only 4 or 5 sentences of the 4/12/17 follow-up pertain to the quality of Y-L specifically. The follow-up piece is primarily directed against the ‘Collectathons are so Dated' premise that Yoshi is also challenging, here in this thread:

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...rmers-just-because-yooka-laylee-didnt-deliver
Danielle Riendeau
Apr 12 2017, 12:00pm
My biggest fear with Yooka-Laylee is the possible backlash, that developers will see a failed attempt at a 3D platformer, throw up their hands, and declare that the genre is dead. That it was doomed to be an artifact of the mid-to-late-90s, a genre that Mario 64 started and dominated, with a few hits along the way. That they'll shrug noncommittally, saying "It's a lost cause, and it deserves to be, because most of those old games kind of sucked anyway."

While she may not agree with many of the folks here who would rate Yooka in particular quite highly, she does share an affinity for the genre as a whole, and is concerned that the reactions of critics to Y-L could decrease the likelihood of future games in the genre.

According to her view (as I understand it), even Playtonic themselves could conceivably be discouraged from making future games in the genre, if they too were somehow convinced that any game they release in this genre is destined to receive a lukewarm critical reception: If Playtonic instead believed (as Riendeau wants them and others to believe) that they could simply make different design choices in a future game in the genre and could thereby improve the reactions from critics, this sense of belief would (according to her view, as I understand it) perhaps give them the increased confidence that they might need in order to make an attempt at a sequel/follow-up in the same genre, and would thereby make it more likely that we get a new game in the genre.

I can see where some folks would disagree with her approach -- in particular those who want to see Yooka in particular recognized for what it does well -- but it's notable that Riendeau is distinct from many others who have been critical of Yooka, given that she most definitely does not believe that the genre itself is dated, and given that her ultimate goal (more attempts at ‘good' 3D collectathon platformers) is a goal that even Yooka fans might share.

 

[mrlion]

I think Yooka-Laylee is a breather of all the "modern elements" that makes games today. In-game you have health regen, a mini map, markers, objective lists, fast travel (since the game does have some pretty big maps), power ups. Outside the game you have paid DLCs, microtransactions, pre orders bonuses, content roadmaps (e.g. Year 1, Year 2, Year 3).

Gaming just became too complicated yet too easy. and I think Yooka-Laylee is a breather for all of that. Although it seems antiquated to many reviewers I think its just something that gaming needed. Getting back to the roots in a game where you finally figure everything out on your own.

 

[SeppOCE]

"Collecting doodads is boring!"

*Looks at Breath of the Wild, and Red Dead Redemption, and Assassin's Creed, and GTA*

Lol

Collecting is honestly the worst part of modern gaming and I wish it died. I don't understand how anyone can get fulfillment out of it.

 

[Salty Hippo]

Danielle's views on anything Banjo are always so on point. Yooka-Laylee is a mediocre game that falls short to Banjo in every regard except graphics tech. She's right, this game will bury the genre for good. You already see bullshit from outlets like Kotaku failing to spot any differences between Y-L and B-K and saying this style of game was never good to begin with. It's sad.

 

[Mr. Mister]

I don't even like the game and get the bad camera control complaints etc.

But I totally agree that it is hilarious to read thoughts on collectibles. Half the crap in modern games stems from the worst parts of these platformers. Games have gotten better at hiding their shitty grind but it's all still there. People actually get mad if their game isn't 50 hours + of mindless bullshit. People just want it disguised as "story" or as a meter they watch grow.

Still a giant waste of life.

 

[rjc571]

Having finally played Yooka-Laylee:

They never evolved past this, they stopped trying long ago.

And Yooka-Laylee does it best.

It has it all:

Great platforming
Great puzzles
Great music
Great levels
Great colours, models and animation
And great low-key storytelling and jokes

I agree. YL is a collectathon done right. It strikes the perfect balance between platforming, exploration, puzzle solving and miscellaneous challenges, with level design that plays perfectly into the game's ever-expanding moves and abilities.

 

[Mr. Mister]

In a way I appreciate its simple honesty. It's a game about collecting shit and it should live or die by its collecting shit mechanics. And in that simple way it failed.

But 90% of modern games are secretly avoiding the fact that they are about collecting shit. It's just disguised better. You love collecting shit you just want it presented in a way that doesn't focus the fact that you are wasting your life.

 

[maxcriden]

I agree. YL is a collectathon done right. It strikes the perfect balance between platforming, exploration, puzzle solving and miscellaneous challenges, with level design that plays perfectly into the game's ever-expanding moves and abilities.

I hadn't seen your thoughts on the game before, rjc. That is a pleasure to read. Gives me even more hope of enjoying it when I get to play it.

 

[Mr. Mister]

I appreciate finally realizing a new genre - life wasters. Enjoy them, argue about them, as they rip precious minutes from the time you have.

They ask nothing of you and I suppose that's okay.

 

[5taquitos]

I appreciate finally realizing a new genre - life wasters. Enjoy them, argue about them, as they rip precious minutes from the time you have.

They ask nothing of you and I suppose that's okay.

Lol, all video games are "life wasters" if you want to be reductive.

 

[Maximo]

I hadn't seen your thoughts on the game before, rjc. That is a pleasure to read. Gives me even more hope of enjoying it when I get to play it.

If your a huge fan of Banjo and Tooie its gonna be a let down.

 

[bede-x]

If your a huge fan of Banjo and Tooie its gonna be a let down.

Not necessarily. There's plenty of people liking it in the OT, just as there's plenty hating it. I'm a big fan of the old Banjo games and the genre in general, and think it's better than Tooie, with improved platforming and less aimless wandering.

 

[Pineconn]

If your a huge fan of Banjo and Tooie its gonna be a let down.

I'm a huge fan of Banjo and Tooie, and it was not a letdown. Be careful of using absolutes.

 

[pretty done]

If your a huge fan of Banjo and Tooie its gonna be a let down.

Bullshit. If you thought a kickstarter indie game was going to revolutionize the genre then yea, you're gonna be let down.

 

[Seik]

If your a huge fan of Banjo and Tooie its gonna be a let down.

What?

I loved both B-K and B-T and have a great time with Y-L

I don't know where you found this logic.

 

[-MD-]

If your a huge fan of Banjo and Tooie its gonna be a let down.

I love Banjo-Kazooie and I think Yooka-Laylee is great so...

 

[Salty Hippo]

Banjo-Kazooie is my favorite game of all time and I don't think Yooka-Laylee is a good game. I wasn't let down though because I never expected it to come anywhere close to the standards of the original.

 

[Poona]

Lol, all video games are "life wasters" if you want to be reductive.

That's why I like trophies and achievements in things on a system wide level now. It shows I did a certain thing on a certain date. Whilst I look at nintendo's systems and think what is the point (as they still don't have system wide trophies/achievements/missions/whatever).

 

[Sword Of Doom]

It's funny how people always complain about the camera in Yooka Laylee and just Rare's platformers in general. My friend and I are currently playing through Mario 64 and the camera is WAY worse. Seriously. Go back to Mario 64 and try to play it. It makes YL's camera look like genius design in comparison. I'm sure the camera in the Banjo games isn't as bad as Mario 64's either unless I'm remembering wrong.

it's making me stop playing it's so bad. Maybe cause I sit a foot away from my 27" monitor and im playing at a very high frame rate. It's just always moving, its really bad.

I haven't played Mario 64 in 20 years so I don't remember but after reading your post, I watched some Videos and it seems alot better than Yooka-Laylee. In YL it's contantly moving around and twitching. Maybe my game is bugged and the patch didn't fix it or something. I'll delete the game and try reinstalling it.

 

[Maximo]

I'm a huge fan of Banjo and Tooie, and it was not a letdown. Be careful of using absolutes.

Yeah my bad on the wording there should have said *Personally was letdown by Yooka Laylee take that as you will* Having played both Banjo and Tooie before Yooka-Laylee the game didn't live up to them.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Whoops, meant to post this in the OT.

 

[DieNgamers]

Nothing can come close to Tooie but it's a competent sequel to this style of game. It maaaay not necessarily be your thing if you are more of a BK guy than DK64 or BT.

It doesn't have the AAA polish and direction of Kazooie but it's a supersolid foundation for their next projects. I love what they did with this and I'm impressed they pulled it off!

 

[nkarafo]

Played through every level and i can't understand the level design complains by some.

The first two levels were amazing to me. I only played a couple of days each and i remember almost everything about them. They are just as memorable to me as the best levels in Banjo.

The third level was kind of meh at first because of the lack of verticality but it's a marsh so it makes sense? The expanded version has some really good areas. It's slowly growing on me and it feels just right.

The casino level is probably the best one. Generally, i don't care about casinos or casino themed levels in video games. Most of the time, its the worst part of the games that include them. But in this game, it looks and feels great.

I don't have an opinion yet for the last one because i only played 20 minutes of it.

 

[Ansatz]

Collecting is honestly the worst part of modern gaming and I wish it died. I don't understand how anyone can get fulfillment out of it.

A collectible can act as an organic 'show, don't tell' method of teaching players new techniques or showing interesting consequences of the game's core mechanics. Instead of having some Navi-like character explicitly spit out the answer you get a chance to make the realization yourself which is far more satisfying than testing your ability to follow instructions.

This basic one shows you how to glide properly using the newly introduced squirrel suit, and the coin trail acts as a hint

This one isn't interesting per se, instead it acts as a reward (i.e. provides feedback to the player) for noticing something suspicious in the level design

Here is one that's neither a tutorial nor associated to a secret. This time the purpose is to provide an incentive for taking on this slightly more challenging setup and in the process learn and overcome this unique enemy pattern

How a collectible is implemented determines if it's meaningful or not, it's not about the collecting in itself.

 

[family_guy]

When they make a new Sonic game, whether 2D or 3D,it's just more Sonic and people still get excited for it so I don't get why this game is treated differently. Perhaps if this was Banjo 3, meaning they replaced everything in YL with Banjo skins, then it would resonate with some people more.

 

[nkarafo]

Collecting is honestly the worst part of modern gaming and I wish it died.

Yeah, i also wish only the games i like existed. I too hate diversity in game genres and styles.

J/k but yeah.

 

[AerialAir]

It lacks tight mechanics and experimentation, essential to any new 3D platformer IP. Just look at Super Mario 3D World, it doesn't reinvent the wheel on the genre, but the controls are superb and it added some new gameplay elements that were fresh enough to keep it from being yet another Mario game.

Collecting is honestly the worst part of modern gaming and I wish it died. I don't understand how anyone can get fulfillment out of it.

You're gonna love Animal Crossing.

 

[gafneo]

Yooka Laylee is not that old school. The game cam does get in the way though and needs auto climb when near a ledge. Standing while shooting invertedly is also dated. This game isn't really meant to be a game changer. That will be MARIO Oddesy. Yooka Laylee is a grand start of a new era for platformers. I think Nintendo should fund and over see Playtonic ips from now on. Will give their games production values through the roof. Old Rare still has not lost their edge. I can still see their brilliance shine around sections that don't feel budget Indy.

 

[Maximo]

Wanna take a few days to write out all my thoughts after finishing it, but the biggest flaws in the game is the Pagies and the worlds themselves.

Jiggies were rewarded for getting to interesting or slightly out of the way locations as well as interacting with unique witty inhabitants of the worlds that banter back and forth often when Kazooie makes some sort of crude remark. Kongo and his mangos, Snappers chasing you through the water with that horrible music playing, the giant turtle Tanktup that you have to smash his feet in because their cold and can no longer move them, and then climbing in his mouth to be greeted by a Choir of turtles that turns into a game of memory, Trunker with Kazooie remarking about his *dry balls*, Napper the sleeping ghost making sure you don't make a noise or repeating notes on a giant piano in The Haunted Church, escorting Twinklies to the Christmas tree so they can light the Christmas tree experiences that to this day are burned into my memory.

Some jiggies were the same such as time trials or simply using powers to get past obstacles but most felt different unique and more importantly they felt rewarding to collect. Yooka Laylee jam packs a ton of collectibles with Pagies feeling like a chore to collect solving puzzle after puzzle mostly involving switches rather then the interaction between memorable places or interesting NPCs.
The worlds don't feel like a living breathing place simply a giant playground that only Yooka and Laylee could feasible get around, I remember a ton of interesting places in Banjo and Tooie but Yooka Laylee felt like a blur with nothing catching my interest.
I didn't expect Yooka Laylee to break new ground or surpass either of the games, I just didn't expect it to be..so unlike the previous games feeling like it forgets what made those games great.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

I agree. YL is a collectathon done right. It strikes the perfect balance between platforming, exploration, puzzle solving and miscellaneous challenges, with level design that plays perfectly into the game's ever-expanding moves and abilities.

I'm glad people are realizing this for themselves instead of having to wait a week after the reviews to find out.

Having finally played Yooka-Laylee:

They never evolved past this, they stopped trying long ago.

And Yooka-Laylee does it best.

It has it all:

Great platforming
Great puzzles
Great music
Great levels
Great colours, models and animation
And great low-key storytelling and jokes

The Pines are great but storytelling is still lacking. But that's part of the convention of the platformer.

A collectible can act as an organic 'show, don't tell' method of teaching players new techniques or showing interesting consequences of the game's core mechanics. Instead of having some Navi-like character explicitly spit out the answer you get a chance to make the realization yourself which is far more satisfying than testing your ability to follow instructions.

This basic one shows you how to glide properly using the newly introduced squirrel suit, and the coin trail acts as a hint


This one isn't interesting per se, instead it acts as a reward (i.e. provides feedback to the player) for noticing something suspicious in the level design


Here is one that's neither a tutorial nor associated to a secret. This time the purpose is to provide an incentive for taking on this slightly more challenging setup and in the process learn and overcome this unique enemy pattern


How a collectible is implemented determines if it's meaningful or not, it's not about the collecting in itself.

NSMBWU is the spouse of Mario Galaxy. Two games, two design philosophies, too perfect. They will never be outdone. Shout out to Mario Maker as proof.

This does not mean that modern devs should just give up on the genre.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

I heard that the PS4 version had bad performance issues, but the game ran like butter with no issues that I noticed at all.......until I got to the Casino level.

Holy crap, the game stutters badly every minute or so in the casino. It's infuriating.

Edit: Revisiting earlier levels with newer abilities causes problems too. Using the charge roll in the Icymetric palace drops the game to about 2 FPS.