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Yooka-Laylee- Review Thread

Ansatz

Member
Everything you stated is still an opinion. It's just based on a collective or using others tastes as perspective

Yes, that's why I usually write 'objective' to differentiate it from actual facts.

And there are plenty of reviewers who try to figure out what a composite amalgam of a gamer will think of a game and write reviews accordingly. Read their reviews.

I want to read a review of somebody's actual opinion. Even if that opinion differs from my own, I can learn more from an actual opinion than what somebody else thinks my opinion should be.

I have no problem with that. I also don't have an issue with those types of reviews being represented on Metacritic.

I also think that Yooka-Laylee is a huge disappointment to me personally, my role here is not to argue that the game deserves higher scores than it got from some sites. It's simply to show the distinction between subjective and 'objective' reviews, and that the latter isn't nonsense at all. It is a valid concept
 

Eusis

Member
Usually they'd factor in how games advanced since, possibly knock it some for "just" being a full HD update, or maybe there's some other reason they'd give a slightly lower score such as super high scores are meant for hot new releases rather than just warmed up releases unless said release was completely remade.

And while I defended the objective angle to a degree up there, it can also be subjective as to how much those components matter. Ueda games frequently have performance issues, but should those really hold a game down that is so amazing and unprecedented otherwise? Or even further, could a janky control scheme like RE5's work in the game's favor? What about something like Deadly Premonition that is flat in the game department but offers enough to allow you to get through that with relative ease to see the completely kooky experience beyond that? Hell, maybe the "bad gameplay" is still fun anyway, kind of like a stupid cheap, unhealthy snack.

A thought of mine is that objectivity probably matters most when you KNOW a part of a game didn't sit well with you and it wasn't compensated for in some way to truly overlook it. Like a poor UI you struggle through that really had no business being so poor, or something. Which just feeds back into why reviews are subjective in the first place, as that's why games can get marked down period.
 

joecanada

Member
Just messing with you of course he is good.

Yeah I know but you bring up a good point . We would have to agree that top 99 percent is good
So it's still an opinion he's good but now you have backed it up with much objective data supporting your claim. So the " good " is opinion but if you had supplied a person who didn't know anything about LBJ with his objective stats then it is up to them to form their opinion. However most people then would expect you to counter with some objective facts of your own like say LBJ was bottom 1% in defense stats we could then argue those facts.

None of which help in video games as the other poster so astutely noted with the uncharted series. (Synth)
 
Which is what people are doing. Disregarding those reviews, though you seem upset people are doing that.

Disregarding and discrediting are not the same.

'I do not agree with that score' vs 'That score is wrong, no way the game deserves that, I can't take him seriously, he just doesn't get it, he's doing it for clicks' etc etc.
 

Heyt

Banned
I can learn more from an actual opinion than what somebody else thinks my opinion should be.

A preference I can respect.

Nobody is suggesting reviewers should dictate opinions to the audience, though. What I have exposed, at least, is reviewers detaching from their own opinion to value aspects of the game by themselves in order to ponder how people with different profiles to the author may react to the preduct in order to have a review that guides possibles customers.

That is not dictating opinions or "getting in someone's head". It is just introspection and empathy.
 

Synth

Member
Which is what people are doing. Disregarding those reviews, though you seem upset people are doing that.

Disregarding a review that doesn't apply to you is perfectly fine, and honestly makes perfect sense. If I'm going to read a review for the next Virtua Fighter game, it wouldn't be from someone who's experience comes almost entirely from playing Mortal Kombat X's story mode.

It's when you start trying to argue such reviews shouldn't exist, that there's an issue.
 
'I do not agree with that score' vs 'That score is wrong, no way the game deserves that, I can't take him seriously, he just doesn't get it, he's doing it for clicks' etc etc.

When 9 out of 10 people says something is amazing, and 1 person says it is terrible, who do you think people will take seriously?

That's just simple psychology.
 

Synth

Member
When 9 out of 10 people says something is amazing, and 1 person says it is terrible, who do you think people will take seriously?

That's just simple psychology.

I'd estimate that 9 out of 10 people will probably take the majority consensus seriously, and 1 out of 10 would agree with the person that thought it was terrible.

Which... kinda makes sense right?
 
When 9 out of 10 people says something is amazing, and 1 person says it is terrible, who do you think people will take seriously?

That's just simple psychology.

They're more likely going to appreciate the opinion of someone who has the most similar taste in games, even if they are the 1/10.

I'd estimate that 9 out of 10 people will probably take the majority consensus seriously, and 1 out of 10 would agree with the person that thought it was terrible.

Which... kinda makes sense right?

Psychology trumps maths, obviously.
 
All in all, i found this to be very interesting, but I really must go now. I hope you guys have a good day, and hope you enjoy Yooka-Laylee if you are getting it.

EDIT: Well dont be surprised when there is backlash for having a very opinionated review that goes against the grain.
 
When 9 out of 10 people says something is amazing, and 1 person says it is terrible, who do you think people will take seriously?

That's just simple psychology.

So where are these 9 out of 10 people saying this game is amazing? Because all I see is a load of mixed reviews, many of them criticising the game.
 
All in all, i found this to be very interesting, but I really must go now. I hope you guys have a good day, and hope you enjoy Yooka-Laylee if you are getting it.

EDIT: Well dont be surprised when there is backlash for having a very opinionated review that goes against the grain.

The very fact that people get upset at other people having a different opinion on a game is the problem.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Jim Sterling's review was much more useful to me than most reviews of this game. He listed the problems he found with the game in detail - poor controls, bad camera, level design that gets worse as the game goes on, lots of filler, inane combat, unfunny jokes, lack of innovation, etc. He also listed what he liked about the game - the music. You may disagree that some of the problems he found are problems (or the severity) and you may disagree that a "bad" game should get a 2/10 score, but he was nothing if not thorough. As someone who loved Banjo-Kazooie when it was new & was disappointed when I went back to replay it on XBLA and feel that it's aged very poorly, his review told me that Yooka-Laylee probably isn't for me.
But, you see, according to "consensus" x/10 score scales (which are totally universal for everybody), these problems would only result in a 4 or 5/10 game, not a 2/10 game, since we have determined that a 2/10 game is only something with such bad game-breaking bugs that the game doesn't even render and also the disc attacks you (if digital, it emits a loud laughing noise at you). Something technically playable but thoroughly unenjoyable to the player has to get more points. Because reasons.

Otherwise it's unfair clickbait and we can dismiss everything the reviewer wrote. We can't possibly say "I think his points have merit, even if I disagree with his scale". It's all or nothing.

/s
 
All in all, i found this to be very interesting, but I really must go now. I hope you guys have a good day, and hope you enjoy Yooka-Laylee if you are getting it.

EDIT: Well dont be surprised when there is backlash for having a very opinionated review that goes against the grain.
There is no "grain." Everyone has different opinions on everything. That's just the way life is. It's fine. Don't worry about review scores. They are meaningless in the end.
 

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
What's the purpose of a forum - what's the purpose of a review thread - if we're not going to discuss, and sometimes argue with, the scores? Is every response in here supposed to be "yes, the scores in the OP definitely exist?" or "Based on what I've seen, Jim Sterling gave this game 2/10 which is well within his right as a human being?"

Let's just cut out the crap and make review threads locked from the jump so they only consist of the OP with links and scores...
 

Heyt

Banned
So where are these 9 out of 10 people saying this game is amazing? Because all I see is a load of mixed reviews, many of them criticising the game.

What you see is right.

Only one outlet says the game is absolute trash, wich is different than rough and/or flawed to different degrees, wich is what most reviews I've seen point out.

So far looks like an ok pick on discount for fans of the genre and a nice treat for Rare-ish fans that can tolerate a rough game. Time will tell.
 
We should be praising Jim for actually using a full review scale. Better than GameInformer who will shit all over a game then give it a 6.5, which is still 1.5 better than average. I mean just look at metacritic for movies compared to games to get an idea how bad it is, we even have different colors due to score inflation.
 
What's the purpose of a forum, what's the purpose of a review thread if we're not going to discuss, and sometimes argue with, the scores? Is every response in here supposed to be "yes, the scores in the OP definitely exist?" or "Based on what I've seen, Jim Sterling gave this game 2/10 which is well within his right as a human being?"

Let's just cut out the crap and make review threads locked from the jump so they only consist of the OP with links and scores...

Discussing why you think a game should/shouldn't get a score is fine. Going after specific reviewers becuase you disagree with their score, saying that reviews like that shouldn't exist, saying they're only doing it for clicks etc is not. You're not discussing the game at that point, you're just trying to discredit someone who liked somethings less/more than you. It's not even a discussion at that point, it's a bitching session.
 
Nobody is suggesting reviewers should dictate opinions to the audience, though. What I have exposed, at least, is reviewers detaching from their own opinion to value aspects of the game by themselves in order to ponder how people with different profiles to the author may react to the preduct in order to have a review that guides possibles customers.

That is not dictating opinions or "getting in someone's head". It is just introspection and empathy.

It also results in situations like the infamous Paper Mario review where the reviewer really liked the game but gave it a worse score because they thought their readers wouldn't. It also results in situations where reviewers give AAA games high scores because they're sequels to popular games and they "deserve it" and then the next year, lots of people are wondering why everybody ignored the game's flaws & general blandness. It's a wishy-washy way to do reviews where you're more worried about what others are going to think than actually analyzing the game in question.
 

groansey

Member
We should be praising Jim for actually using a full review scale. Better than GameInformer who will shit all over a game then give it a 6.5, which is still 1.5 better than average. I mean just look at metacritic for movies compared to games to get an idea how bad it is, we even have different colors due to score inflation.

You're assuming that Jim's assessment of the game is gospel and that another reviewers 7/10 equals a 2/10 from Jim. No matter how skewed the averages, a 6/10 or 7/10 does not equal an unplayable mess only a desperate person would find any merit in. It's still an outlier score.
 
You're assuming that Jim's assessment of the game is gospel and that another reviewers 7/10 equals a 2/10 from Jim. No matter how skewed the averages, a 6/10 or 7/10 does not equal an unplayable mess only a desperate person would find any merit in. It's still an outlier score.

He's saying that Jim's score is at least consistent with the review that goes along with it it.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
I think it fair to say that Jim Sterling exaggerates things when he doesn't like them. I have never found a review of his to be wrong about the general state of a game, but have found the way he has sometimes expressed his displeasure to be inaccurate, possibly even misleading without taking this into account.

If he gives it a 2 /10, it is very likely a piece of shit game. Other reviewers were just kinder about relaying that.
 

collige

Banned
We should be praising Jim for actually using a full review scale. Better than GameInformer who will shit all over a game then give it a 6.5, which is still 1.5 better than average. I mean just look at metacritic for movies compared to games to get an idea how bad it is, we even have different colors due to score inflation.

Why do you assume that the MC average for movies is the "correct" one that other mediums should aspire to?
 

Heyt

Banned
Yes, writing reviews instead of unfiltered opinions is not perfect, but I honestly think that if the score and the text reflect slightly different things there is a bigger chance of people being guided well in regards to the product.

I don't know the paper mario case at all, but if the review praised well the game and the score was 7 I think that the person who is really following this game with interest will have a lot of arguments in that text that will motivate the purchase. The people who is not really a big fan will know that the game has virtues but the score might keep the excitement grounded and just give it a go when cheao. Someone who doest like it will take the 7 as the most important thing to justify not giving it a go.

Everyone gravitates towards confirmation bias, that's why the reviewer trying to distance a bit from his opinions and thinking from other angles is important.

The Jimquisition review does not seem to factor many things or possible points of view and grades the game extremely harshly; it's the most extreme score of the ones I've seen. I don't think is very useful or well done. It is not the first time the outlet does stuff like that and I am inclined to think that noriety and drama are a major driver on the editorial line, but sadly many reviews like this are taken seriously. Jimquisition in particular seem like can never do wrong.
 

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
Discussing why you think a game should/shouldn't get a score is fine. Going after specific reviewers becuase you disagree with their score, saying that reviews like that shouldn't exist, saying they're only doing it for clicks etc is not. You're not discussing the game at that point, you're just trying to discredit someone who liked somethings less/more than you. It's not even a discussion at that point, it's a bitching session.

Well, we can't have any sort of discussion about a review that seems to be "an outlier" without making it obvious who we're talking about so... Yeah, not sure how you dance around the elephant in the room.

Don't disagree with your point re: "doing it for clicks." Unnecessary speculation. I also don't understand why people so concerned about that speculation want to engage in this argument every time.

I don't begrudge Jim Sterling his opinion. There are tons of games that are liked/loved that are '2/10 or worse' to me. I also don't understand why GAF threads have to have two settings. Either "what's going on in here, donaldglover.gif" or full-on hype thread. Why does everything have to be a meltdown that requires grandstanding about how opinions work and condescending silliness about people having the audacity to be somewhat emotionally invested in their favorite leisure-time hobby?
 

Ansatz

Member
It also results in situations like the infamous Paper Mario review where the reviewer really liked the game but gave it a worse score because they thought their readers wouldn't. It also results in situations where reviewers give AAA games high scores because they're sequels to popular games and they "deserve it" and then the next year, lots of people are wondering why everybody ignored the game's flaws & general blandness. It's a wishy-washy way to do reviews where you're more worried about what others are going to think than actually analyzing the game in question.

The millions who buy those games love them for exactly what they are, and the reviews on mainstream gaming sites reflect those opinions.

I have a friend who couldn't stop talking about Far Cry 4 pre-release and during the launch period. Few weeks after release, I visited him and he told me it's amazing and I should try it. So I play from the start, pick normal difficulty and I'm like 1 hour into it I ask him about a certain part I couldn't figure out and he says he doesn't know, because I'm further into the game than he is. As I started questioning it he eventually said "I got what I wanted out of the game, it was worth it" and then I realized he buys many of these AAA titles but never actually plays them. You say that the game has flaws, but he never gets to the point where they affect his enjoyment of the game, and the reviews reflect exactly this. The only flaws that would affect his score are things like if the game refuses to boot up, if not it's a 10/10 masterpeace with gorgeous visuals. This is why when an Assassin's Creed title receives 9.6 on IGN I know that it's still not for me, since the text reassures me that the game design is the same, but those who loved the previous entries will love this one too.
 

-MD-

Member
Jim's review made me more excited for the game.

Why is the wait so goddamn long, this week is dragging.
 

joecanada

Member
Yes, that's why I usually write 'objective' to differentiate it from actual facts.



I have no problem with that. I also don't have an issue with those types of reviews being represented on Metacritic.

I also think that Yooka-Laylee is a huge disappointment to me personally, my role here is not to argue that the game deserves higher scores than it got from some sites. It's simply to show the distinction between subjective and 'objective' reviews, and that the latter isn't nonsense at all. It is a valid concept

Can someone help me out here I'm lost with this response. Are we changing the definition of objective now or am I just worn out
 
As an example of the kind of go with the flow trend that we've frequently seen with reviews where reviewers just try to score what they think the majority will agree with, take a look at FFXIII.

83 reviews for Final Fantasy XIII (PS3 version)
28 reviews gave the game a score of 90 or above (excellent)
42 reviews gave the game a score of 80-89 (great)
12 reviews gave the game a score of 50-79 (average to mediocre)
1 review (Jim Sterling) gave the game a score of 40 (bad)

I daresay a LOT more than 1% of the people here think FFXIII is a bad game. And not just here - if you look on Steam, 28% of users gave it a negative review which places its user approval rating is in the bottom 31% of Steam review scores.
 

Ansatz

Member
Can someone help me out here I'm lost with this response. Are we changing the definition of objective now or am I just worn out

It just means that the review in question is not a reflection of the reviewer's personal opinion, but what they think fans of the game series will think about this game once they do get their hands on it. Those reviews exist and are a thing
 

Yokai

Member
As an example of the kind of go with the flow trend that we've frequently seen with reviews where reviewers just try to score what they think the majority will agree with, take a look at FFXIII.

83 reviews for Final Fantasy XIII (PS3 version)
28 reviews gave the game a score of 90 or above (excellent)
42 reviews gave the game a score of 80-89 (great)
12 reviews gave the game a score of 50-79 (average to mediocre)
1 review (Jim Sterling) gave the game a score of 40 (bad)

I daresay a LOT more than 1% of the people here think FFXIII is a bad game. And not just here - if you look on Steam, 28% of users gave it a negative review which places its user approval rating is in the bottom 31% of Steam review scores.


I think your attempt to defend Jim is actually doing to opposite to all the other reviewers. It's likely that many of the people who played the game for review actually legitimately liked FFXIII despite its pretty damning flaws.
 

tuxfool

Banned
My objective review of this thread is that it is a 1/10. Too many posters are whiny fools that don't know what objective means.

Do bear in mind that I have carefully considered what an average audience looking for a thread would think of this whole wreckage of a thread.
 

gamerMan

Member
I think it fair to say that Jim Sterling exaggerates things when he doesn't like them. I have never found a review of his to be wrong about the general state of a game, but have found the way he has sometimes expressed his displeasure to be inaccurate, possibly even misleading without taking this into account.

If he gives it a 2 /10, it is very likely a piece of shit game. Other reviewers were just kinder about relaying that.

I think he has to exaggerate with his business model as this is how he gets his stuff shared. He either extremely likes something or totally hates it. This is what allows him to build a strong niche of paying supporters on Patreon. It's the same reason that Colin is successful.

Here is a breakdown of his reviews
38%higher than the average critic
3%same as the average critic
59%lower than the average critic
 

Artanisix

Member
God bless. Watching tons of review vids, the game hits the right spot as a Banjo fan, but god DAMN did the camera look awful in the videos.
 

ZeroCoin

Member
My objective review of this thread is that it is a 1/10. Too many posters are whiny fools that don't know what objective means.

Do bear in mind that I have carefully considered what an average audience looking for a thread would think of this whole wreckage of a thread.

Clearly you don't understand what objectivity is all about. If you had liked this thread but made a few concessions about some low points, that would've been objective.

Obviously the only true way to get an objective look at a game is by it's statistics. Number of doors in the game. Average shutdown time. How many colors the game contains. Number of wrinkles on the face of the protagonist. You know, important and measurable facts that can't be disputed.
 
A patch will be released before launch fixing camera issues and performance:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...c-patch-targets-camera-issues-and-performance

While I know that these things take time, that the game went gold some weeks or even months ago, and release day embargos are one of the worst things in the industry, it's a pretty bad decision to let the review embargo be before this patch comes out if the reviewers really don't have that patch, if those changes really are anything major.
 

groansey

Member
As an example of the kind of go with the flow trend that we've frequently seen with reviews where reviewers just try to score what they think the majority will agree with, take a look at FFXIII.

83 reviews for Final Fantasy XIII (PS3 version)
28 reviews gave the game a score of 90 or above (excellent)
42 reviews gave the game a score of 80-89 (great)
12 reviews gave the game a score of 50-79 (average to mediocre)
1 review (Jim Sterling) gave the game a score of 40 (bad)

I daresay a LOT more than 1% of the people here think FFXIII is a bad game. And not just here - if you look on Steam, 28% of users gave it a negative review which places its user approval rating is in the bottom 31% of Steam review scores.

FFXIII isn't a game I'm interested in, it's not to my taste, that doesn't mean I think it's a bad game. I no longer consider myself the target audience for the series, but it still has it's fans. I'm sure if I played the game I would enjoy it well enough because it's a popular franchise with a big budget. Unless something went terribly wrong and the game is a complete failure or broken I don't see why it would score poorly. I wouldnt consider Steam user reviews to be a trustworthy barometer.
 
I think he has to exaggerate with his business model as this is how he gets his stuff shared. He either extremely likes something or totally hates it. This is what allows him to build a strong niche of paying supporters on Patreon. It's the same reason that Colin is successful.

Here is a breakdown of his reviews
38%higher than the average critic
3%same as the average critic
59%lower than the average critic

I wonder how many % of Jims reviews are dynasty warriors games?
 
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