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Yoshi-P On The Decline Of MMORPGs, On Female Players, And Future Plans

Taruranto

Member
This line of thinking confuses me--you had one item set that was "best" for any one individual task (stacking haste +% for TP or Enfeebling Skill+ for enfeebles) but you still didn't have much in the way of choice. Remember when you got kicked out of parties if you didn't have the walahra turban? Or you always had to eat sushi since accuracy gear wasn't great? Maybe that got fixed as XI got older.

More gear options are meaningless if that just means each gearset has a single purpose. Then you're just playing a game of collecting all of the gear you "need." Interesting itemization is, imo, more like older WoW with unique set bonuses that could radically change how you played that class. The problem with that really does come down to the balancing act. It'd be cool to have a powerful shield with "5% chance to cast cure when struck," but how do you make that both worth having and then provide another option later that's more powerful but still different? There's definitely a way! I just think it's too cumbersome for most games to deal with.

FFXI was pretty lax as far gear requirement, so I don't remember what you are describing happening much. :p

Regardless, even if there was (is) a better item for every set, it still meaningful gear progression and a way to extend content in a way that feels fun to me. I certainly had fun collecting those rare pieces of Mag. Attack+ in 2005, because they actually felt like unique, meaningful gears. It also didn't mean my INT+ gears were completely useless. Sky, Sea and Salvage could exist side by side because Dalmatica and Morrigan were both good pieces for BLM.

I certainly still have fun today collecting the fast cast pieces available for certain jobs in order to max FC, or finding ways to max conserve MP and Cure Potency, or max PDT with Pet Regen.
 

Alex

Member
I haven't really been following XIV since I don't play MMOs, all I know is that it was panned when it came out and apparently did a huge 180 and is now pretty popular. What is it about the new game that people like so much?

Heavensward is as Final Fantasy as it gets, it is what people want from the franchise. It understands it entirely and how to build future mythology for it. Even if you aren't an MMO person it's very worth doing the campaign, honestly XIV has more issues as an MMO than a FF game.
 

Loona

Member
No doubt the man has qualities and concern for XIV, but it still worries me he gets to be in charge of SE's online game division - with multiple games to manage, his game gets to enjoy more promotional efforts and budget, while DQX gets to stay in Japan, and FFXI's huge amounts of user-friendly improvements these past few years, or even characters not called Shantotto, remain unknown to the wider gaming public or FF fandom.

If he wants a less managerial position, I hope SE gives it that by detaching him from roles that affect other games...
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
This line of thinking confuses me--you had one item set that was "best" for any one individual task (stacking haste +% for TP or Enfeebling Skill+ for enfeebles) but you still didn't have much in the way of choice. Remember when you got kicked out of parties if you didn't have the walahra turban? Or you always had to eat sushi since accuracy gear wasn't great? Maybe that got fixed as XI got older.

I never did, I prided myself on not going after the +1 on hard to get items as well. It wasn't necessary to me. Eating sushi was for me, no one kicked me for not doing it, but I didn't want to miss too much (especially Labyrinth of Onzozo Coeurl). By the time people stopped doing skill chains each fight, no one even seemed to pay attention to what I did 70s, Sky farming type parties (merit tp burn like groups exp chaining on Weapons). Though the hunt for gear was fun to me so I did go after those things for fun, not as a requirement. I didn't get a lot of stuff but it made the game worth playing for me, especially if I could get the item solo.

Though it sounds like you may mean endgame event groups. I don't think I randomly joined one of those outside of maybe 2 instances. Both because I tagged along with friends. Then I was in a endgame shell where I couldn't get kicked even if I screwed up a few times for fun (never would have because it wasn't in my interest, even as a joke). I do think I got lucky with a fun group of people though. For those events I ate food I needed for the situation because I wanted things to die.

This reminds me, I so loved my evasion setup in FFXI. I had gear for so many different situations. Duoing Limbus was so fun, dat boxer mantle (drool bigtime).
 

Slater

Banned
No doubt the man has qualities and concern for XIV, but it still worries me he gets to be in charge of SE's online game division - with multiple games to manage, his game gets to enjoy more promotional efforts and budget, while DQX gets to stay in Japan, and FFXI's huge amounts of user-friendly improvements these past few years, or even characters not called Shantotto, remain unknown to the wider gaming public or FF fandom.

If he wants a less managerial position, I hope SE gives it that by detaching him from roles that affect other games...
Lol yu show up in every XIV/Yoshi thread to say the same thing
 

JeffZero

Purple Drazi
Because it's a good game and a massive turnaround any other company would have just burned to the ground after its original failure.

Yoshida also genuinely "gets it" and isn't just a PR-mouthpiece. That in itself goes a long way.

Mhm. I'm excited to give it a whirl next year. It'll be my first MMO.

I really appreciate Yoshida being Yoshida. Even as someone who has never played this genre of video game, I still notice him, and in nothing but good ways. Just being a big Square fan, I hear all the right stuff from him.

Tanaka fucked up with XIV 1.0 but I can't hate the man who produced and game-designed FFIII, Secret of Mana, Secret of Mana 2, Xenogears, and Chrono Cross.

Kira-Nerys-star-trek-deep-space-nine-25143687-245-188.gif


Can't hate Tanaka, either, then.
 

Toth

Member
Mhm. I'm excited to give it a whirl next year. It'll be my first MMO.

I really appreciate Yoshida being Yoshida. Even as someone who has never played this genre of video game, I still notice him, and in nothing but good ways. Just being a big Square fan, I hear all the right stuff from him.



Kira-Nerys-star-trek-deep-space-nine-25143687-245-188.gif


Can't hate Tanaka, either, then.

You didn't see what he was doing to FFXI though....
 

Loona

Member
Lol yu show up in every XIV/Yoshi thread to say the same thing

Sorry if that's frequent enough to get annoying - it bothers me that SE's support for XI is ever waning, and it would be messed up for a mainline FF game to become entirely unplayable someday, and I rarely see anyone addressing that.
 
I actually likes Tanakas 1.0 battle system better conceptually

But it was just a hot mess of an execution on all the other levels but i dont blame him completely

Damn shame. Either way the game was never truly going to be molded like an RPG that i envisioned
 

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
would be all over 14 if it dropped the sub like ESO or GW2 (well GW2 didnt drop the sub), but it seems it wont anytime soon :/
 

Sylas

Member
Sorry if that's frequent enough to get annoying - it bothers me that SE's support for XI is ever waning, and it would be messed up for a mainline FF game to become entirely unplayable someday, and I rarely see anyone addressing that.

It's a shame but I genuinely can't see them doing anything to address FFXI becoming unplayable someday. It's old and, unfortunately, is getting the treatment that most old games get. I'd die for DQX to come over here though. Uuuugh please.

Tanaka? He did have a tendency to keep information about the game obfuscated.
IIRC, XI didn't even get official forums until Tanaka was on his way out of the project.

Ahh the good ol' days of the Absolute Virtue video...
 

ChrisP63

Member
Yoshi-P is a great guy, and has really turned around FFXIV in a remarkable way. Saw him give a presentation back in April at PAX East. Sadly I don't think there is any time for a sub fee MMO at this stage of my gaming life. Not to mention Stormblood doesn't look nearly as interesting as Heavensward did.
 
While I a few issues with FFXIV: ARR, I have nothing but love for what Yoshi-P and his team have done to improve the game over the years. I really feel like they do their best to address player concerns where they can.

Thanks to him and his team FFXIV: ARR has become my favorite FF game.
 
Is there still no chat bubbles in ARR?

This bugged me stupidly hard in the month I played of it. I was told it was because of PS3 console limitations.
 

teiresias

Member
He'll never direct a mainline/offline FF - either because they won't let him, or because he won't want to because they'll want to force him to engage in the crude female exploitative design that that's made the mainline series so embarrassing.
 
FFXIV went from the worst mmo I played when I tried out the 1.0 beta (and I played a ton of Korean mmos at that time) to my all time favorite mmo since 2.0 beating wow for me which I've played and enjoyed every expansion through legion.
 
Yoshi-P is a great guy, and has really turned around FFXIV in a remarkable way. Saw him give a presentation back in April at PAX East. Sadly I don't think there is any time for a sub fee MMO at this stage of my gaming life. Not to mention Stormblood doesn't look nearly as interesting as Heavensward did.

I don't see what you can even gather from that small teaser especially when they said the environments would vary and not all be like the one shown.
 
I may have some issues with the game (though a good chunk of it has nothing to do with the game itself but it's community), he did a fantastic job on the game and I always enjoy playing it, even if it's just to log on, explore the world for a bit, take screenshots of my character and log out.

And now that others mentioned it, the guys get quite a bit of skimpy stuff to show off.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
would be all over 14 if it dropped the sub like ESO or GW2 (well GW2 didnt drop the sub), but it seems it wont anytime soon :/

Same with 11. I'd go through the main story for both if it wasn't a monthly sub. :/
 
Yoshi-P is a great guy, and has really turned around FFXIV in a remarkable way. Saw him give a presentation back in April at PAX East. Sadly I don't think there is any time for a sub fee MMO at this stage of my gaming life. Not to mention Stormblood doesn't look nearly as interesting as Heavensward did.

We barely know anything about storm blood so it seems weird to have come to that conclusion.

The final fanfest info dump isn't until February.
 

Loona

Member
Same with 11. I'd go through the main story for both if it wasn't a monthly sub. :/

XI nowadays is streamlined enough that you could probably get all the major stories done in a month or 2, which might cost you less than some of the single-player entries.
 

Riposte

Member
He'll never direct a mainline/offline FF - either because they won't let him, or because he won't want to because they'll want to force him to engage in the crude female exploitative design that that's made the mainline series so embarrassing.

Yeah, imagine if he was forced to make a game where the main heroine looks like Minfilia 2.0.

NeoGAF would have to make a thread about that!


I think the way people talk about FFXIV includes a lot of double standards (ergo "it's the best final fantasy ever!"), the female armor designs is one of them.

FFXIV 1.0 was somewhere around 90 to 100% gender neutral on gear (FFXI wasn't to that degree, but it was far more modest in general - some exceptions, such as Dragoon AF, which I will be mentioning for FFXIV). The moment Yoshi-P came on board that immediately changed with the female versions of Bard and Dragoon armor being very different and sexualized at that - female Dragoon is missing huge chucks of armor, include an open belly, and female Bard walks without a shirt under their coat, for maximum cleavage and belly exposure.

When A Realm Reborn released, they introduced the very different and sexualized default race armor, which happen to highlight the new breast physics in the case of the new, extra-busty female Roegadyn; the double standards are so strong for FFXIV that when the rather sexual female Miqo'te default armor and pose appeared as a crossover in Lightning Returns (arguably the most overtly sexual pose in the game) there's was highly vocalized distaste over it by the very same people who now praise FFXIV to high heavens.

Many of the new armor sets released also featured some very prominent differences when equipped by male and female characters - namely, the male version wears pants and the female version wears a mini-skirt. Any sort of pointing towards subligar (a holdover from all the way back in the early days of FFXI) or bathing suits/joke armor is a distraction on this point, because a gender difference in gear (and one that is unquestionably sexualized) has a straight line from Yoshi-P's new direction that only became stronger in the new version of the game. What's noteworthy about this is that these are gear sets that every character must wear, not what just one character named Cidney/Cindy wears - if you want to wear the iconic Dragoon set (which wasn't really a bad idea mechanically in 1.23 era, different from 2.0+ breakneck progression pace) as a female character, you have to have your belly exposed; if you start as a female Miqo'te, you begin dressed like a catgirl schoolgirl (meanwhile in 1.0, you just looked an adventurer, maybe with an open-shirt, but that was gender-equal). I was thinking about flooding this posts with images as examples, but I don't think it's necessary unless people simply don't believe what I'm saying.

Honestly, I don't mind this stuff so much and I don't mind if people like it. I was very disappointed when they changed the tone of the original game to be more sexualized and cliche'd anime, but that's neither here or there. What bugs me is the ridiculous double standards people have for this game. Imagine if a single-player Final Fantasy had implied gang-rape in a quest (required by the main scenario) which is immediately thrown away by the cutscene's end? Would be hell on earth.


For comparison: Here is the Minfilia design of 1.0 (right), which was remade into a different character in 2.0 (left).


EDIT: Gear swapping can/could have fit fine in FFXIV or other games. You don't need to have a bunch of macros or anything, just create a system where the character can change to two or three sets of armor a la Lightning Returns. I get what people say about balance in terms of gear having interesting effects, but the lesson many games (e.g., fighting games) will teach you is that balance is boring. Personally, I find highly-pointed vertical progression to be excruciating, and possibly a metaphor for the pointlessness of work or life.
 
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