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Yoshi-P On The Decline Of MMORPGs, On Female Players, And Future Plans
- Thread starter orthodoxy1095
- Start date
Drillary Clinton
Banned
What was the point of this driveby post
doubt he'll last long here
Drillary Clinton
Banned
Honestly some of the classes are better suited for controller it seems like. And the slower GCD, to me, grounds the game and makes the combat more enjoyable.
Honestly my favorite MMO ever. And that's from someone who spent years with WoW through Vanilla to WOTLK. I love that healers can DPS. The scholar class was pretty much made for me. Stance dancing and doing respectable DPS while dropping mondo heals is so satisfying. I plan on resubbing here soon.
Yoshi-P's a great guy, feel kinda bad how he clearly doesn't want to be Producer anymore.
I'd like to see a single-player FF directed by him, not sure it'll ever happen though.
That's a good point.
I use the controller as I don't feel like hunching over a keyboard and mouse for hours and hours, and the controller works so well with the game.
I've tried a few MMOs since and the first thing I do is check how the controller is and very few (ESO's seems good so far) come close to FF14.
I'd like to see a single-player FF directed by him, not sure it'll ever happen though.
That's a good point.
I use the controller as I don't feel like hunching over a keyboard and mouse for hours and hours, and the controller works so well with the game.
I've tried a few MMOs since and the first thing I do is check how the controller is and very few (ESO's seems good so far) come close to FF14.
SoundPulse
Banned
I don't use a pad for combat (because muscle memory), but I love plugging in my 360 controller, putting on a podcast, and then just mining or whatever.
It's been said numerous times, but what he did wasn't make a mediocre product decent. He took a project so bad that it had to be literally blown up, and turned it around into something with great critical acclaim. It's a complete fliparound, not a modest improvement.
So much was stacked against it. It shouldn't have happened. And yet here we are.
So much was stacked against it. It shouldn't have happened. And yet here we are.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
He basically did what Tabata couldn't.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
The craziest part of that is how they tied it in with the Lore of the game. The calamity is metaphorically the servers for XIV being blown up.
The surprising lack of knowledge is the first thing I noticed when I started Destiny at launch. Some design decisions made no sense and I don't talk about the previous gen technical limitations. It was like those guys never played any MMO before.
As far as I'm concerned it's a frontrunner for 'biggest achievement in gaming of the past decade'. It's that impressive.
I thought they were out of their fucking minds to try and remake the game from the ground up. I thought it was the very definition of throwing good money after bad and I thought it could sink Square Enix.
But thanks to this guys efforts, all of their most optimistic plans came true, and we got a fantastic game out of it too.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Someone gives the keys of FF to this man.
Is our only hope.
Is our only hope.
djplaeskool
Member
Yoshi-P is my homeboy.
Waffle Burger
Member
How would it sink Square-Enix when FFXI and now DQX have probably made more money for them? Props to Yoshi-P for his work but the end result is something that I did not want from an MMO after playing XI (not that 1.0 was any better, that thing was clunky but it did have a few merits that I found nice but not worth the overall bad product.)
DrROBschiz
Member
Are they ever going to bring more mechanical diversity and gear building back into XIV
Ive been out of the XIV picture for a long time but i had the following issues
- Gear didnt matter outside of pushing stat thresholds to the minimum needed to clear content. No elements, no hidden bonuses or abilities, no meta. Just straight numbers
- Abilities still pretty much locked to 3 part roles. Instead of the diversity builds that a job system brings you are boiled down to the 3 role system with slight variances while having access to mostly non essential crossover skills
Now I basically loved everything else about the game but and think it had great gameplay but that was it. It became more about executing complex manuevers with a team than building characters up
So the minute to minute is fun and teamwork is fun but I need balance and I need treasure to chase and mechanics to play around with.
The big team stuff became the focus near the end of my run through the game and the demands on the player became pretty strong and a lot of stuff was very grindy to get your stats/gear level up without changing the META
Where are we now? Is it still more of a team arena game is are RPG mechanics and builds making a comeback?
Ive been out of the XIV picture for a long time but i had the following issues
- Gear didnt matter outside of pushing stat thresholds to the minimum needed to clear content. No elements, no hidden bonuses or abilities, no meta. Just straight numbers
- Abilities still pretty much locked to 3 part roles. Instead of the diversity builds that a job system brings you are boiled down to the 3 role system with slight variances while having access to mostly non essential crossover skills
Now I basically loved everything else about the game but and think it had great gameplay but that was it. It became more about executing complex manuevers with a team than building characters up
So the minute to minute is fun and teamwork is fun but I need balance and I need treasure to chase and mechanics to play around with.
The big team stuff became the focus near the end of my run through the game and the demands on the player became pretty strong and a lot of stuff was very grindy to get your stats/gear level up without changing the META
Where are we now? Is it still more of a team arena game is are RPG mechanics and builds making a comeback?
GuitarGuruu
Member
I concur, I played XIV for a couple years and you can really tell the passion he has for the game. They're very good at listening to the community as well.
YoshiP is, without hesitation or question, the best thing happening at Square Enix right now.
I still can't fully believe it. FFXIV vanilla launch was just an unmitigated disaster. I was in the midst of totally losing faith in Square Enix after an entire console generation wasted on subpar XIII and Lightning games, junk like All the Bravest, and crushing disappointments like The 3rd Birthday. Kingdom Hearts was a shell of itself relegated to a billion spin-off titles, Versus XIII's continual delays had become an industry joke, and the entire company felt like it was leaderless and lacked vision. FFXIV's launch woes was just another sign that the company was in serious trouble.
And I openly mocked the game. I don't really regret that either. It was a disaster and they ignored so much feedback and the game was just so shoddy, it's baffling. I predicted it would quickly go F2P and then disappear into the ether like other failed MMOs like Tabula Rasa or Hellgate: London or something.
When they announced they were scrapping it to rebuild it from the ground up, I keenly recall saying it would be a giant waste of money, the game was too toxic, it was impossible to turn the ship around. This wasn't just an average game in need of help; it was a terrible game that poisoned the well so badly that I was convinced it couldn't be saved. I mocked their efforts throughout development, saying with much snark how their plans to return to a monthly subscription fee would never happen.
I've been eating crow ever since.
The game was relaunched... and it was spectacular. I was indignant about it for months, though. "No way," I said. "It was broken beyond repair." But the reviews were so strong, the fan feedback was so positive, and that "Answers" CG cutscene gave me some serious chills. I read up on it more and more, saw their interviews, saw the changes, and I was slowly won over. "Okay," I bristled. "I'll try it." I didn't even like MMOs, but I loved me some classic Final Fantasy and my newly bought PS4 needed games.
I've been in love ever since.
Folks may criticize a lot of the end-game stuff, and rightly so, but anyone who says that YoshiP and his talented team haven't completely done the impossible of saving a game harder than any game has ever been saved is fooling themselves. They didn't make a flawless game, and they still don't always deliver the goods, but I'm satisfied 90% of the time with every patch they make and every expansion they put out. The scenarios are some of the best work Square has ever put out, period, and to my eternal shock, I've seen FFXIV rise through the ranks of my favorite Final Fantasy titles to take a firm spot in my top 3 of all time. While I don't play every day (or even every month), I'm always eager to come back. To experience more adventures with the Scions of the Seventh Dawn. To go on more wacky misadventures with Hildibrand. To dive into new dungeons with epic bosses. To see my character grow in power and prestige. To explore new parts of this beautiful and majestic world I haven't seen before.
And to know just how personal this is for YoshiP and his crew... how much stress they were under, how much pressure they felt to deliver the goods and live up to such an important legacy...
I'll never forget the video of it all sinking in on him when the relaunch had maintenance issues. He took it personally.
This is truly a game made by passionate people who are eternally grateful to their fans for giving them the second shot the game may not have even deserved, and their love for the series and its fans pours out in every facet of both A Realm Reborn and Heavensward.
Even when it falters, I can never deny that it doesn't have the best passion and intent behind it, and they've earned my faith that, over the long-haul, they'll only get better and better.
I still can't fully believe it. FFXIV vanilla launch was just an unmitigated disaster. I was in the midst of totally losing faith in Square Enix after an entire console generation wasted on subpar XIII and Lightning games, junk like All the Bravest, and crushing disappointments like The 3rd Birthday. Kingdom Hearts was a shell of itself relegated to a billion spin-off titles, Versus XIII's continual delays had become an industry joke, and the entire company felt like it was leaderless and lacked vision. FFXIV's launch woes was just another sign that the company was in serious trouble.
And I openly mocked the game. I don't really regret that either. It was a disaster and they ignored so much feedback and the game was just so shoddy, it's baffling. I predicted it would quickly go F2P and then disappear into the ether like other failed MMOs like Tabula Rasa or Hellgate: London or something.
When they announced they were scrapping it to rebuild it from the ground up, I keenly recall saying it would be a giant waste of money, the game was too toxic, it was impossible to turn the ship around. This wasn't just an average game in need of help; it was a terrible game that poisoned the well so badly that I was convinced it couldn't be saved. I mocked their efforts throughout development, saying with much snark how their plans to return to a monthly subscription fee would never happen.
I've been eating crow ever since.
The game was relaunched... and it was spectacular. I was indignant about it for months, though. "No way," I said. "It was broken beyond repair." But the reviews were so strong, the fan feedback was so positive, and that "Answers" CG cutscene gave me some serious chills. I read up on it more and more, saw their interviews, saw the changes, and I was slowly won over. "Okay," I bristled. "I'll try it." I didn't even like MMOs, but I loved me some classic Final Fantasy and my newly bought PS4 needed games.
I've been in love ever since.
Folks may criticize a lot of the end-game stuff, and rightly so, but anyone who says that YoshiP and his talented team haven't completely done the impossible of saving a game harder than any game has ever been saved is fooling themselves. They didn't make a flawless game, and they still don't always deliver the goods, but I'm satisfied 90% of the time with every patch they make and every expansion they put out. The scenarios are some of the best work Square has ever put out, period, and to my eternal shock, I've seen FFXIV rise through the ranks of my favorite Final Fantasy titles to take a firm spot in my top 3 of all time. While I don't play every day (or even every month), I'm always eager to come back. To experience more adventures with the Scions of the Seventh Dawn. To go on more wacky misadventures with Hildibrand. To dive into new dungeons with epic bosses. To see my character grow in power and prestige. To explore new parts of this beautiful and majestic world I haven't seen before.
And to know just how personal this is for YoshiP and his crew... how much stress they were under, how much pressure they felt to deliver the goods and live up to such an important legacy...
I'll never forget the video of it all sinking in on him when the relaunch had maintenance issues. He took it personally.
This is truly a game made by passionate people who are eternally grateful to their fans for giving them the second shot the game may not have even deserved, and their love for the series and its fans pours out in every facet of both A Realm Reborn and Heavensward.
Even when it falters, I can never deny that it doesn't have the best passion and intent behind it, and they've earned my faith that, over the long-haul, they'll only get better and better.
It really is incredible. I love learning about all this incredible backstory of the games development.
I like Yoshi. He's a very charismatic presence and genuinely enjoys the fans. He also is dedicated to FFXIV and making it a fantastic RPG. As an avid player of the game from day 1 (yes FFXIV 1.0), I am still a little suspect though that he can sustain the game's growth. There is a disappointing pattern being developed since the end of Realm Reborn that does not reward the time of players who log in daily and play. His team has created an alternating patch pattern of 2-3 new dungeons per path (now mostly 2), story content, and then either a new chapter of the 24 man raid or the patch's 8 man raid with its harder (savage) version. Best gear is always from raids, followed by gear purchasable with tomes you get by constantly doing one of the 2 new dungeons EVERY day or spamming primals, followed by gear from the raid (which you can only get one piece once a week), followed by gear from the 8 man raid. The problem here is that gear becomes obsolete WAY too quickly and saps any sense of achievement in earning it. For example. You work your butt off for an Alexander gear piece, only for 2 weeks later you have enough tomes to buy a gear option that is significantly better than the one you worked hard for. The difference between each tier is too large to ignore.
I still do plenty of old content in FFXI and are rewarded with gear that is still very useful for my characters. The lack of horizontal progression and fixation of constant vertical progression needs to be curtailed.
Then there is the battle system which is still the same 1-2-3 combo from RR. I love blasting things with Fire IV as BLM but I still find it weird how effective fire and thunder spells are against creatures MADE of fire and lightning. A little variety is sorely needed and Stormblood will be a true test on the game's ability to evolve IMHO
I still do plenty of old content in FFXI and are rewarded with gear that is still very useful for my characters. The lack of horizontal progression and fixation of constant vertical progression needs to be curtailed.
Then there is the battle system which is still the same 1-2-3 combo from RR. I love blasting things with Fire IV as BLM but I still find it weird how effective fire and thunder spells are against creatures MADE of fire and lightning. A little variety is sorely needed and Stormblood will be a true test on the game's ability to evolve IMHO
DrROBschiz
Member
Agreed
14 is a much better game thanks to Yoshi
Gave me a good run. I really want to jump back in but it needs some of the things Im looking for.
Maybe if I can get my buddies to jump back in and if we get a switch port. Portable MMO would be bonkers
FF14 has better graphics, UI, amazing QOL features and community stuff.... But its not a great RPG or at least it doesnt have the elements i CRAVE. It moonlights with its solo content but falls short in the endgame
Still and amazing achievment but FFXI, like you mentioned earlier, has way better payoffs even if its mindbendingly frustrating in so many other areas
Im not sure ill even see a perfectly balanced MMO experience but Yoshi swung for the fences with a lot of great things he did in 14
Shame its not "a game for me"
14 is a much better game thanks to Yoshi
Gave me a good run. I really want to jump back in but it needs some of the things Im looking for.
Maybe if I can get my buddies to jump back in and if we get a switch port. Portable MMO would be bonkers
FF14 has better graphics, UI, amazing QOL features and community stuff.... But its not a great RPG or at least it doesnt have the elements i CRAVE. It moonlights with its solo content but falls short in the endgame
Still and amazing achievment but FFXI, like you mentioned earlier, has way better payoffs even if its mindbendingly frustrating in so many other areas
Im not sure ill even see a perfectly balanced MMO experience but Yoshi swung for the fences with a lot of great things he did in 14
Shame its not "a game for me"
I doubt anything is going to change ever for a long while, 4.0. will still be another glorified patch.
GAF seems the only place where I still read (almost) unanimous love for this guy, most FFXI-XIV 1.0. players turned against him and sites like BG are starting to become quite critical of FFXIV formula.
DrROBschiz
Member
Its a superior overall experience thanks to him but its a damn shallow rpg
Its closer to team arena raid simulator by the end
Focused more on executing under a set of rules, mechanics and circumstance. Ill admit I had fun with it but it didnt tickle my RPG mental high points that games like Tactics or even the aformentioned FF11 did.... even though that game was horrendous in som many areas where ff14 shines
The Destiny comparison is apt except in destiny the gear adds at least a few layers that turn the game into a playground and is mentally stimulating
Glendemonium
Member
I don't know how you can get horizontal gear progression in a game like FFXIV. In XI it was simpler because you were expected to gear swap via macros to maximize abilities and spells. If we had horizontal progression with gear in XiV there's always going to be that one piece that's just "better" than the other so the other piece will be ignored (or used for glamour).
At first Diadem was supposed to be the alternative endgame area, but it failed hard. Gear at the time was supposedly better than the Alex savage Gordias counterparts but over time people just stopped doing this due to RNG frustration. Part of me wishes it was successful, because I left my hardcore MMO days behind me in XI. Now I play XIV and don't have the time or patience for statics anymore. IMO 24 man raids should be harder but provide the same ilvl gear as Savage raids.
This game doesn't have gear that can boost your abilities or spells, instead you just wear the best gear you have and juggle a hotbar rotation that can punish you and your entire team if you screw up.
I'm curious how they're tweaking the job system in 4.0 because right now some jobs suffer from button bloat.
lol Blue Gartr still squaking is no surprise. They used to be the forefront of the XI days and set the "standards" of how to play XI (by excluding most jobs in favor of optimal party setups that you'd be hard pressed to shake up) Now they're the old guys hating on something the new generation wants to enjoy. Not saying that they're wrong about how XIV can feel like a rinse/repeat cycle of content, because I'd love to see some XI styled content that actually has alternative rewards that are the same tier as savage raids... just it's bittersweet after all these years.
DrROBschiz
Member
You are two focused on slot swapping that people macroed for XI
Which is stupid. I dont want that either. I DO want gear to be more than just glorified number boosters
AuthenticM
Member
Danny O'Dwyer should do a documentary on Final Fantasy XIV.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
He does mention that in the interview in the OP (the Siliconera summary doesn't mention it).
According to another summary:
Rough translation said:
Crying.
Not to take away from YoshiP's achievements but I think Tabata and BD2 largely did an amazing job with the hand of cards they had.
Dropped the poor performance (the flowerpots were the same polycount as the player models, IIRC), added Yoshi-P.
BG used to be pretty excited about FFXIV during 2.0., so I don't think it's just a case of "hating stuff because it's popular/new".
A lot of old MMORPG players started to turn on the game because ultimately the repetitive gear cycle that doesn't offer anything new really wears off on people that are used to much more diverse gears and contents. (Not to mention general depth when it comes to the actual RPG system) Heck, it should (it is?) wear off people that aren't used to horizontal progression because it is awful!
KojiKnight
Member
I tried to like ffxiv... But it just felt like WoW with non interactive cut scenes up till the part I played. I'm told it got better with what's and what not one you got into heavens ward... But I didn't have dozens of hours to spare to play a game I wasn't enjoying in hopes it got better.
That's FFXIII levels of insanity.
That's FFXIII levels of insanity.
DrROBschiz
Member
Yup
It became more about team arena play and less of an RPG
Sucks but thats what killed it for me. It was a solid ride though so I credit Yoshi P for that
Yoshi - P is one of the rare developers I admire. I followed his inheritance and transformation of FFXIV closely and you can tell he's the real deal. A truly passionate and hard working developer that deserves success.
That being said, there's no doubt in my mind that post-FFXIV he will go on to do some amazing things. I would love for him to make a single player Final Fantasy, because as many FFXIV players know, he's very good at delivering on the old school feel of prior Final Fantasy titles (something I believe the series desperately needs right now).
That being said, there's no doubt in my mind that post-FFXIV he will go on to do some amazing things. I would love for him to make a single player Final Fantasy, because as many FFXIV players know, he's very good at delivering on the old school feel of prior Final Fantasy titles (something I believe the series desperately needs right now).
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I found XV to be a bitter disappointment myself, but I don't think that holding Tabata to the standard of Yoshi-P is fair to either of them. Yoshi-P managed a once in a lifetime feat.
Mhm, Yoshi P was also allowed to nuke the setting and pick and chose what to keep. He could do whatever because the original game panned completely so nobody had any attachment.
Tabata was never going to be able to actually cut clean like that. The Versus stuff was to revered to make a clean break from it even though it's clear they probably would have if given the choice
He didn't entirely cut clean though. XIV still follows the original characters and lore established in 1.0.
No, I know but what I meant was he didn't have to worry about reception, he could do his own thing, if he changed something to fit it didn't cause any uproar because nobody really cared, (Look at how diffirent the Ascians are now compared to 1.0)not like how enthralled people are by Versus and incredibly attached
Like would anyone really disagree that whatever Tabatas skill level, not being tied to stuff that wasn't his probably would have made a better game?
Like there's a huge diffirence in how people view fixing a dumpster fire that nobody cared about and being the guy changing a worshiped concept by a beloved creator.
I think the MMORPG market declined in no small part thanks to how they were redesigned over the years, borrowing more and more elements from single player RPGs in an effort to make them "better", in addition to adding a bunch of automated matchmaking systems similar to what you'd find in modern action multiplayer games, making the social elements much more convenient and not requiring players to actively interact and communicate with others to experience group content. All these things added together essentially eroded much of the original novelty of the genre as living virtual worlds which set them apart from other games.
Survival games like DayZ and Rust essentially stepped in to fill the void in the market left by new school MMORPGs (minus the "massive" part) by providing the same kind of unique online social experience they used to have.
Survival games like DayZ and Rust essentially stepped in to fill the void in the market left by new school MMORPGs (minus the "massive" part) by providing the same kind of unique online social experience they used to have.
Hear hear. Stuff like DaoC, Everquest, etc. Heck, even EVE really changed across the years to be something less of the former and more of its own bizarre form of emergent gamescape.
Although, on the flipside, those changes led to the MMO genre gaining the mass appeal that its predecessors never quite achieved. As much as people clamor for pristine servers in WoW, that's not an experience that would have shot up to 12 million active subscribers.
You're absolutely right that there's always a small segment of the market looking for it, though.
That 180 was Yoshi-P.
Yet they added breast slider, breast bounce, female AF armors that show more skin than male variants ...
I mean,, is not as bad as the other MMOs out there but ARR added some fanservice compared to 1.0 or XI. Still, it's good that they maintain their point of view instead on going all in with stupid fanservice.
Breast bounce is now taboo? Lol... and a breast slider is bad too? Geez... neither of those were done in excess and represent what you see every day around you. Different sizes and soft bodies
I only would consider the breast slider fan service if you could create cartoonishly huge breast like other games.