• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Yoshio Sakamoto and the future of Metroid

Jobbs

Banned
Keep in mind this is the man who made the majority of metroid titles before other M before you say something reckless like "I dont want this man near this IP at all"

Yeah, totally. I mean, why would we want the director of Super Metroid anywhere near this franchise?

can't believe I missed all these comments (these and others like it).

Sakamoto should absolutely never be allowed in the same building as Metroid ever again. Anyone who could allow Other M to exist, much less be the designer/writer of it, should be taken out to pasture. No, no, no, no.

He didn't just "mess up" and miss the mark. He made a franchise-assassinating game that, unless we decide it's not canon and never happened, basically ruins the franchise. We need to start fresh. He's a franchise assassin. From top to bottom it gets every single thing wrong, from story to gameplay, and it goes beyond "getting it wrong" and shits on everything Metroid fans care about to begin with.

I don't care if he designed Super Metroid. The fact that he designed/wrote Other M shows me he should never be allowed near this franchise again. I can only speculate what the reasons are that he made something like Other M -- maybe time changes people, maybe he went crazy, maybe he was never good to begin with and Super Metroid was a happy mistake -- but I don't need to speculate on the result of his actions and ideas.

I have no confidence in Sakamoto. Reason? Other M. That's the reason. No. Confidence.

There are many true Metroid fans who grew up obsessed with Super Metroid who are now game designers and could do a good job of it. Nintendo just needs to hand it off to someone who understands it, because I promise you none of the Nintendo elders understand it.
 
I appreciate the fact that Sakamato directed Super Metroid, and often used it in defenses myself.

But. Y'know.

George Lucas.


And Peter Jackson dirty fucker making Hobbit an epic poem
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I'm replaying Fusion for the first time in 6+ years and the hand holding is getting really hold really fast. I'm generally enjoying it, though. Gonna bookmark this thread and read more when I'm done. :)
 

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
I'm doing nothing of the sort. I'm not making brandish remarks about how it is objectively impossible to think there is any semblance of good in Other M. Quite the opposite. I am pointing out to those who do think such things to be psychologically unstable, which they are. Their criticism is psychologically unstable. Too much emotional/mental investment in past successes has given them an attachment deficit.

Star Wars fans and Star Trek fans are no different.

Fanaticism in general is no different.

Or, you know, they just don't care for the obnoxious story, don't particularly like the control, don't like the graphical style, or any other assortment of factors that contribute to making a game 'good'.

Liking a game is subjective, and while admittedly, saying there's literally zero benefit in Other M is indeed hyperbolic, your immediate, and near-condescending 'I am the voice of reason' mentality does you no favors either.

Also, to whomever said if they retcon'd Other M, they'd have to retcon Fusion....that's not how Retconning works, lol.

You can totally leave Adam as a secondary character mentioned in Fusion. Sure, it may not leave things particularly tied together well, but Metroid hasn't done the greatest job of that before Fusion.
 

nkarafo

Member
II don't give a shit about Samus' personality or if Other M is respectful to previous games. At the end of the day Metroid is about jumping on platforms and shooting aliens and Other M is godawful at this.
Metroid isn't just about jumping on platforms shooting aliens. That's what OtherM is about mostly. Metroid is more about exploring a huge map in order to find the hidden upgrades that will allow you to open new areas or areas that were unreachable before, until you reach the end. Using your own brains as opposed to hand holding that is.

Which OtherM does godawfuly.

Also, the various aliens are obstacles but they are also serve as a reference on how powerful you are becoming as you upgrade your suit.
 

Boney

Banned
The best case for Sakamoto is not that he made Super Metroid all those years back, but that he made tomodachi life just recently
 

Jezan

Member
http://www.metroid-database.com/features/nomsakamoto.php
Sakamoto-san, you supervised Metroid Prime and were in charge of directing Metroid Fusion. Prime was the series’ first first-person perspective game, but…

Sakamoto: When I heard of the project, I was also bewildered. Because Samus is a relatively popular character, I didn’t think it would be a good idea for her to come out in this form. But they showed it to me partway through development, and they had the Morph Ball, and the shape of Samus appeared to feel good. It had a cool world, and I thought it would do well. I think they finished it nicely.

About where in the timeline is Prime set?

Sakamoto: The story takes place between the first one on the Famicom Disk System and is followed by Metroid II. I had the idea to make it separately as a gaiden [side story], but wouldn’t it be a cop-out to call it a gaiden? Because of that, I consulted with Tanabe, and things fell into place very naturally. The local staff worked on it really hard, it serves as part of the series, and I think they completed it very well.​
This is why Sakamoto is a greedy guy. He knows Samus is a popular character, but he didn't think it was a good idea what Retro had in mind for her. Because it didn't fulfill his waifu fantasy maybe?

No one will move Metroid's story forward without his involvement, that's why Retro had Prime fit where it would be easier to ignore it. And we are stuck in Fusion's ending for a while.

Retro should keep working on other games before working on Metroid again, Corruption is awesome, but it has the same problems Fusion had, we don't want their Metroid to fall in Other M territory, because Sakamoto is around.
What a bunch of exaggerated drivel. I keep being reminded that Metroid fans don't understand the design principles that have pervaded the franchise since the very beginning.



What a load of hyperbole nonsense. I love how fans acquire a sense of entitlement and confuse their perception for objective reality. You don't sound crazy at all.
Care to explain. Because your post has no relevant information but calling fans crazy. :(
 

sörine

Banned
Sakamoto's not beyond criticism. He heard the complaints about Fusion's sectioned linearity and blabbering handholding and in response he gave us Zero Mission.

I wouldn't mind seeing what Other M's Zero Mission is like. Maybe even a Return of Samus remake (it needs one). Whatever we get I just hope Samus is fast and agile and doesn't feel like I'm piloting a tank underwater.
 

Jezan

Member
You missed the point, this isnt about liking the game or not, nobody in here inferred this, this is about the hyperbole and the false facts being spread around about a man and a series he's been apart of for 20 years, people saying things they dont know much about and only going off what other people say instead of what the actual situation is. It's not putting up real discussion and puts them in a bad light.
No, people think Metroid fans are crazy, the problem is that unlike the examples posted of Super Mario Sunshine or Wii Music, Other M is a bad game and Sakamoto changed what people liked about the main character .

The people calling Metroid fans crazy, say that the fans created the personality of Samus out of nothing because there has never been a game where Samus shows her personality. Except that the "show, don't tell" approach of Nintendo early games (aka Metroid I, Return of Samus, and Super) is also an acceptable narrative. It's not the fans invention, but what the games showed.
"Technology limitations" doesn't fly, because they could clearly show how the baby Metroid imprinted on Samus(both in the GB and SNES), yet they never showed Samus' breakdown on any Ridley fight. The SNES sprites even show Samus breathing! but no shock reaction when Ridley appears.

People want Sakamoto far from Metroid, not because Other M is a bad game, but because he has constantly showed in interviews that he has a different idea of Metroid now. And specially a different idea of Samus, which is not the same Samus he showed in Metroid I,II,and Super. If Other M is what awaits Samus, then we don't want that, that's why Sakamoto should stay away, Samus is not his waifuprivate property, and fans don't want to see her become it.

She could go through PTSD, because we want no robot Samus, but Other M was not the game to do it. If anything it should have been in Metroid I/Zero Mission. Other M should have been the gaiden game, because the only connection from Super to Fusion that the game had was Adam.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Here's what you could do for the next metroid game.

post Fusion. no more timeline jumping BULLSHIT. (stop it) 3D open world game, third person view.

Samus X parasite suit is becoming unstable or something so she goes to some world for some reason. Maybe this is the world where lots of X parasite shit is. The mission is just (at least, initially) to save herself. There's no mission directive beyond this. there are no briefings, no computers talking, and no hand holding. Just a big world, go see, go do. See and do. that's it. learn by doing. learn by observing. This shit seems so simple, it honestly seems like something Nintendo should understand, but they don't.

Anyway, we should use the X virus infection as a way to change the gameplay equation and do new things and take away old things. Maybe even make it less of a ranged/shooting centric game.

she has to hunt creatures with the X virus to save herself. tracks them with some kind of tracker. Since the goal is to track down key X virus creatures, it can take on a very non linear gameplay structure.

Not every game can be about saving the world. Maybe a game is just about saving yourself for once.

Maybe there are hints dropped in the game that Samus is sort of losing her humanity and becoming something else in her pursuit to acquire all this X virus stuff. Maybe the end game reveal is a helmet removal that reveals Samus as looking not all that human at all anymore. An eerie ending.
 

televator

Member
No.

Send Sakamoto to Pluto with no communications to Earth while good important work is being done on the next Metroid games by Retro. They're proven they can do Prime and side scrolling games like Donkey Kong so they can work on both the console and handheld releases.

Sakamoto is the George Lucas of video games. As such he should be striped of all contact with his former creation.
 
Wow, some really pathetic comments in here about Sakamoto. The man has one misstep and suddenly he's a horrible game designer who should be burned at the stake.
 

Toxi

Banned
The idea that Fusion, a game released nearly a decade before Other M, relies on Other M's story and requires it to function is hilarious.

Anyway, we really need Kenji Yamamoto back as a composer. Other M's horrible bland soundtrack is a result of his absence, and it shows when the only decent music from Other M is a remix of one of his Super Metroid compositions.
 

VARIA

Member
Wow, some really pathetic comments in here about Sakamoto. The man has one misstep and suddenly he's a horrible game designer who should be burned at the stake.

To be fair, the reaction is very Japanese. Just look at how Nintendo treated Gunpei Yokoi.

;-)
 

Jezan

Member
Wow, some really pathetic comments in here about Sakamoto. The man has one misstep and suddenly he's a horrible game designer who should be burned at the stake.
Is not about the misstep. It's because of the ideas he has for Samus and Metroid for the future games, which it's in the same vein as what he did in Other M, fans don't want that, but he is clueless.
The idea that Fusion, a game released nearly a decade before Other M, relies on Other M's story and requires it to function is hilarious.

Anyway, we really need Kenji Yamamoto back as a composer. Other M's horrible bland soundtrack is a result of his absence, and it shows when the only decent music from Other M is a remix of one of his Super Metroid compositions.
But Fusion worked before Other M, Other M is just an excuse to give Adam screen time, because Other M didn't change anything (except for Samus portrayal)
 

janoDX

Member
Wow, some really pathetic comments in here about Sakamoto. The man has one misstep and suddenly he's a horrible game designer who should be burned at the stake.

It's his constant points of view about the character that scare us. Retro revived a dead franchise and it became popular, Sakamoto just destroyed all of that because of his "muh waifu" thoughts.

That's why I want a Prime 4 more than anything Sakamoto makes with Metroid.
 

televator

Member
It's his constant points of view about the character that scare us. Retro revived a dead franchise and it became popular, Sakamoto just destroyed all of that because of his "muh waifu" thoughts.

That's why I want a Prime 4 more than anything Sakamoto makes with Metroid.

Right on! Prime is true Metroid. Other M can butt out, and Sakamoto can kick rocks with his "separate series" nonsense.
 

Toxi

Banned
But Fusion worked before Other M, Other M is just an excuse to give Adam screen time, because Other M didn't change anything (except for Samus portrayal)
That's why the idea is hilarious.
To be fair, the reaction is very Japanese. Just look at how Nintendo treated Gunpei Yokoi.

;-)
Sakamoto just shot himself in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese Metroid culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being first-person. If you screw Samus over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is that the Japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Metroid for any system, nor will they purchase any of Sakamoto's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sakamoto just alienated an entire market with Other M.

Sakamoto, publicly apologize and cancel Other M 2 for Wii U or you can kiss your job goodbye.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Wow, some really pathetic comments in here about Sakamoto. The man has one misstep and suddenly he's a horrible game designer who should be burned at the stake.

A misstep would be missing the mark a bit with a game.

Franchise assassination by *SHITTING* on every aspect of metroid that fans love, from story to character to gameplay, is not a mere misstep.

keep this man AWAY from metroid.
 

Mr Swine

Banned
A misstep would be missing the mark a bit with a game.

Franchise assassination by *SHITTING* on every aspect of metroid that fans love, from story to character to gameplay, is not a mere misstep.

keep this man AWAY from metroid.

I guess Myamoto should stay away from Mario after the huge misstep that is Sunshine too eh?
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
sörine;141843850 said:
Sakamoto's not beyond criticism. He heard the complaints about Fusion's sectioned linearity and blabbering handholding and in response he gave us Zero Mission.

I wouldn't mind seeing what Other M's Zero Mission is like. Maybe even a Return of Samus remake (it needs one). Whatever we get I just hope Samus is fast and agile and doesn't feel like I'm piloting a tank underwater.

That's not true. Sakamoto, Hosokawa and the rest of the famous Nintendo SPD Metroid team always had plans to make Fusion and Zero Mission back to back. Fusion was received well. I'm sure some people disliked the more linear-action deviation, but the game was good man.

I'm confident, their third game Metroid Dread, was probably a mix of zero mission and fusion.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Sakamoto needs to stay away from Metroid, just like George Lucas needs to stay away from Star Wars
 
Sakamoto needs to stay away from Metroid, just like George Lucas needs to stay away from Star Wars

Other M's problems were him trying to justify Samus's powers taken away with a stupid story.

Sakamoto's created everything that metroid is. He just needs to give the game to miyamoto and be done with it. He set the foundations the series needed in two distinctive styles of metroid game.
 
Uh..what?



I don't hate the game (though I dislike it and it's still one of the worst Metroid games by a good bit) but all you seem to be doing is brushing off anyone's criticism with "lol haters" and "you're overreacting" while not actually saying why you think the game is good.

Dude I dont even think the game is good, but you folks take shit too far.
 

Toxi

Banned
I think Ninja Theory would make an interesting Metroid game.
RG0BS1U.jpg
 
I really don't see Sakamoto going near Metroid for a while, I think he's more happy creating less traditional games like Tomodachi Life. He'll probably just keep making games like those, I think that's what he's best at.
 

Marcus

Member
just give metroid back to retro studios. sakamoto has proved that he can only make wacky games like tomodachi crossing now
 

robor

Member
Care to explain. Because your post has no relevant information but calling fans crazy. :(

I'm doing nothing of the sort. I'm not making brandish remarks about how it is objectively impossible to think there is any semblance of good in Other M. Quite the opposite. I am pointing out to those who do think such things to be psychologically unstable, which they are. Their criticism is psychologically unstable. Too much emotional/mental investment in past successes has given them an attachment deficit.

Star Wars fans and Star Trek fans are no different.

Fanaticism in general is no different.

Or, you know, they just don't care for the obnoxious story, don't particularly like the control, don't like the graphical style, or any other assortment of factors that contribute to making a game 'good'.

Liking a game is subjective, and while admittedly, saying there's literally zero benefit in Other M is indeed hyperbolic, your immediate, and near-condescending 'I am the voice of reason' mentality does you no favors either.

Condescending? As opposed to the radical assumptions being made that anyone perceiving this game to be of any merit is considered a fool, more or less. No, people mentioning all the problems in this game marking it off as "terrible" is an overreaching claim made by what fanatics do best: to exaggerate beyond reason.

Other M is not a terrible game. I can think of 10,000 games that are far more terrible than Other M. I can think of 1,000 games more ordinary on that matter too. People only want to see what they want to see. Other M is something that goes against the grain, fails on the delivery, but with enough open mindedness, succeeds on extending the possibilities of what can be done in a Metroid game.

The potential is still there.
 
Condescending? As opposed to the radical assumptions being made that anyone perceiving this game to be of any merit is considered a fool, more or less. No, people mentioning all the problems in this game marking it off as "terrible" is an overreaching claim made by what fanatics do best: to exaggerate beyond reason.

Other M is not a terrible game. I can think of 10,000 games that are far more terrible than Other M. I can think of 1,000 games more ordinary on that matter too. People only want to see what they want to see. Other M is something that goes against the grain, fails on the delivery, but with enough open mindedness, succeeds on extending the possibilities of what can be done in a Metroid game.

The potential is still there.

Yup. See people? This is how being reasonable works.
 

Instro

Member
Sakamoto outright said he has no plans to come back to the series anytime soon during one of his interviews for Tomodachi Life. He may very well be done with traditional games all together, so it seems like the discussion about him is pointless now. I do think he and his team could easily make another great Metroid game though. They probably learned some pretty painful lessons from Other M.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Tanabe, Tabata, and their SPD 3 team have the most control over the series now. I recall Tanabe still being interested with the Hunters idea as far as a more expanded universe of bounty hunters and such. I'm curious to see where the series ends up landing next.
 

Toxi

Banned
Condescending? As opposed to the radical assumptions being made that anyone perceiving this game to be of any merit is considered a fool, more or less. No, people mentioning all the problems in this game marking it off as "terrible" is an overreaching claim made by what fanatics do best: to exaggerate beyond reason.

Other M is not a terrible game. I can think of 10,000 games that are far more terrible than Other M. I can think of 1,000 games more ordinary on that matter too. People only want to see what they want to see. Other M is something that goes against the grain, fails on the delivery, but with enough open mindedness, succeeds on extending the possibilities of what can be done in a Metroid game.

The potential is still there.
Other M is a third-person character action game made by Team Ninja. It has QTEs, brutal finishers, and a long-winded story with fully-voiced high-budget cutscenes. It has regenerating health, tacked-on motion controls, and a spammable invincible omni-directional dodge.

It is not daring in the greater context of video games. It goes against the grain of Metroid, but so did Metroid Prime. Metroid Prime was a successful game that inspired two spinoffs, two sequels, and a remake. Other M got the series canned for an indefinite period. People are open-minded, they just don't like being served shit and they really don't like being told the shit is actually chocolate.
 

robor

Member
Sakamoto outright said he has no plans to come back to the series anytime soon during one of his interviews for Tomodachi Life. He may very well be done with traditional games all together, so it seems like the discussion about him is pointless now. I do think he and his team could easily make another great Metroid game though. They probably learned some pretty painful lessons from Other M.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Tanabe, Tabata, and their SPD 3 team have the most control over the series now. I recall Tanabe still being interested with the Hunters idea as far as a more expanded universe of bounty hunters and such. I'm curious to see where the series ends up landing next.

Oh man, that's terrible news.

:(
 
No, people think Metroid fans are crazy, the problem is that unlike the examples posted of Super Mario Sunshine or Wii Music, Other M is a bad game and Sakamoto changed what people liked about the main character .

The people calling Metroid fans crazy, say that the fans created the personality of Samus out of nothing because there has never been a game where Samus shows her personality. Except that the "show, don't tell" approach of Nintendo early games (aka Metroid I, Return of Samus, and Super) is also an acceptable narrative. It's not the fans invention, but what the games showed.
"Technology limitations" doesn't fly, because they could clearly show how the baby Metroid imprinted on Samus(both in the GB and SNES), yet they never showed Samus' breakdown on any Ridley fight. The SNES sprites even show Samus breathing! but no shock reaction when Ridley appears.

People want Sakamoto far from Metroid, not because Other M is a bad game, but because he has constantly showed in interviews that he has a different idea of Metroid now. And specially a different idea of Samus, which is not the same Samus he showed in Metroid I,II,and Super. If Other M is what awaits Samus, then we don't want that, that's why Sakamoto should stay away, Samus is not his waifuprivate property, and fans don't want to see her become it.

She could go through PTSD, because we want no robot Samus, but Other M was not the game to do it. If anything it should have been in Metroid I/Zero Mission. Other M should have been the gaiden game, because the only connection from Super to Fusion that the game had was Adam.

Maybe you think Nerd culture exists but Metroid is his "daughter" not his waifu.


Other M is a third-person character action game made by Team Ninja. It has QTEs, brutal finishers, and a long-winded story with fully-voiced high-budget cutscenes. It has regenerating health, tacked-on motion controls, and a spammable invincible omni-directional dodge.

It is not daring in the greater context of video games. It goes against the grain of Metroid, but so did Metroid Prime. Metroid Prime was a successful game that inspired two spinoffs, two sequels, and a remake. Other M got the series canned for an indefinite period. People are open-minded, they just don't like being served shit.

Metroid blast exists


As does the metroid prototype and dead Metroid Dread.
 

Toxi

Banned
Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah;142472908 said:
Maybe you think Nerd culture exists but Metroid is his "daughter" not his waifu.
Even Sakamoto joked about her being his waifu.

18hehdejmbpdajpg.jpg


Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah;142472908 said:
Metroid blast exists

As does the metroid prototype and dead Metroid Dread.
Metroid prototype? Are you talking about the Next Level Games Metroid concept art that was made before Other M was even released?

Metroid Dread was killed long before Other M. Metroid Blast is in the same game as a F-Zero mini-game.
 

robor

Member
Other M is a third-person character action game

Something some of us have been waiting a long time for.

It has QTEs,

I actually didn't mind the QTEs in this game.

brutal finishers,

Which are awesome and always satisfying.

and a long-winded story with fully-voiced high-budget cutscenes.

Yea this sucks, the worst part for sure. I did, however, like the way they portrayed Ridley in this game.

It has regenerating health,

A great addition. Permanently depleted life-bars are out dated and lame.

tacked-on motion controls,

As in the switch from tps to fps? I loved that. I did think that forcing missile use in fps only was a big mistake. But I liked the way things slowed down for a moment so you could deliver massive blasts. They should have spent more time designing enemies that compliment the modulation of both perspectives more (those chameleons were a fantastic case for this).

and a spammable invincible omni-directional dodge.

This is one of the features I loved the most about this game. Very simple and elegant. Though I agree that it should have been multi-directional to add depth in where you land your dodge. They could have done more with this for sure.

It is not daring in the greater context of video games.

I felt the combat experience was like no other. Very unique compared to other hack n slash titles. It had an interesting melding of combat and platforming.

It goes against the grain of Metroid, but so did Metroid Prime.

I felt it was more in-line with the 2D games than Prime ever was. It was different in how it retained that feeling of speed and agility well-known in the other games.

People are open-minded, they just don't like being served shit and they really don't like being told the shit is actually chocolate.

A perfect example of a fanatic exaggeration.
 

Trame

Member
I felt it was more in-line with the 2D games than Prime ever was. It was different in how it retained that feeling of speed and agility well-known in the other games.
I'm ignoring most of your post because I have no frame of reference for understanding statements like "permanently depleted life-bars are out dated" rather than development decisions

But man

Speed and agility? You must have had a very different childhood than mine

Even in Super Metroid you were generally plodding along unless you were speedrunning (and it still has a jump so floaty it's hard for me to play soon after playing almost any other platformer). The only 2D Metroid game I really associate with being fast-paced is Zero Mission
 

televator

Member
Even Sakamoto joked about her being his waifu.

18hehdejmbpdajpg.jpg


It all makes sense now. Christ...

Sakamoto outright said he has no plans to come back to the series anytime soon during one of his interviews for Tomodachi Life. He may very well be done with traditional games all together, so it seems like the discussion about him is pointless now. I do think he and his team could easily make another great Metroid game though. They probably learned some pretty painful lessons from Other M.

Data-Star-Trek-Fist-Pump.gif
 

Clefargle

Member
can't believe I missed all these comments (these and others like it).

Sakamoto should absolutely never be allowed in the same building as Metroid ever again. Anyone who could allow Other M to exist, much less be the designer/writer of it, should be taken out to pasture. No, no, no, no.

He didn't just "mess up" and miss the mark. He made a franchise-assassinating game that, unless we decide it's not canon and never happened, basically ruins the franchise. We need to start fresh. He's a franchise assassin. From top to bottom it gets every single thing wrong, from story to gameplay, and it goes beyond "getting it wrong" and shits on everything Metroid fans care about to begin with.

I don't care if he designed Super Metroid. The fact that he designed/wrote Other M shows me he should never be allowed near this franchise again. I can only speculate what the reasons are that he made something like Other M -- maybe time changes people, maybe he went crazy, maybe he was never good to begin with and Super Metroid was a happy mistake -- but I don't need to speculate on the result of his actions and ideas.

I have no confidence in Sakamoto. Reason? Other M. That's the reason. No. Confidence.

There are many true Metroid fans who grew up obsessed with Super Metroid who are now game designers and could do a good job of it. Nintendo just needs to hand it off to someone who understands it, because I promise you none of the Nintendo elders understand it.

Yeah, my faith in that man was shattered by that game
 
just some food for thought, since it seems that many people here are getting a bit too focused on one particular detail of game development.

a game is never made by just the one guy (unless its the indie-est indie that ever indie-ed) , there is always a group of people contributing to the whole, so giving one person full credit for a whole game ( in either a negative or positive way) is never going to be very fair.

it seems to me that the guy could make another terrible metroid or a game the returns the series former prestige, its just to murky of an area for anyone not directly involved to accurately predict. so i wouldn't say no to him trying his hand at the series again.

that said who else is excited for Ghost Song?!
 
The person who directs the next Metroid needs to be someone who understands what made the series popular. Other m's design staff seem to have thought that any such list boiled down to "killing things while moving through a scifi environment" and added things that directly inhibited some of the other original draws of the series to a catastrophic degree.

If Sakamoto understands the disconnect between fans' mental image of Metroid and the product actually released, and wants to correct the problems in a future entry, then he is as qualified for the job as any other candidate. If he thinks that the series inherently needs an actively dramatized story, and that metroid's original low-cutscene exploration-driven design was only forgivable because of the limitations of old technology, then the success of the series must have been a happy accident, and the franchise should be handed off to people who want to make things faithful to the concepts actually embodied in the products that popularized it.

I'm afraid that some element of the metroid design staff at Nintendo really does feel that the low-story stuff was purely a product of the time instead of a unique and viable style of product because the more modern games have feature increasing amounts of it. Fusion added samus's monologues. Zero mission added more plot into the original metroid. Prime 3 forced us to tolerate the galactic federation. other m performed franchise suicide. Then there's the whole "Nintendo didn't seem to know what bounty hunter actually means to the rest of the world" thing, where instead of going with what they'd been communicating to the world for the history of the series, they instead decided to continue using their personal definitions.

RE: "the game has potential even if the execution was bad:" I find this odd. A cooler setting and a story dedicated to empowering the player/main character instead of weakening them would make for a less terrible experience but wouldn't turn it into something worthy of the series' pedigree. I'd summarize the basis of other m as:

-linear game
-cutscene-based story
-an isometric 3rd-person camera
-increased mobility for samus.

The first two points in the list run counter to the original principles of the series, and should probably be abandoned if recapturing lost fans is the goal. They go beyond "botched execution" into "attempting to do the wrong thing from the get-go." If half the points that form the foundation of Other M would have to be scrapped in a future attempt irrespective of execution to be faithful to the Metroid games before it, then I find it really hard to say that any such sequel were tapping the potential of other m.

On top of that, I feel like the controls as implemented now would also need completely revamped. Samus can move quickly and have melee attacks, sure, but auto-aim and the magic dodge button feel like a gameplay extension of the linear and cinematic approach- 'automated stuff looks cooler than anything you could do yourself, so you have less input here' is what it feels like those features say to me. An agile samus is pointless if it's achieved by minimizing player input. Thus, any potential for a fun 3rd-person 3d metroid with an agile player-character seems even more detached from other m in my eyes. The potential all lies in a concept so vague that it's nearly completely dissociated from the product that actually got released.



just some food for thought, since it seems that many people here are getting a bit too focused on one particular detail of game development.

a game is never made by just the one guy (unless its the indie-est indie that ever indie-ed) , there is always a group of people contributing to the whole, so giving one person full credit for a whole game ( in either a negative or positive way) is never going to be very fair.

it seems to me that the guy could make another terrible metroid or a game the returns the series former prestige, its just to murky of an area for anyone not directly involved to accurately predict. so i wouldn't say no to him trying his hand at the series again.

that said who else is excited for Ghost Song?!

It's true. Even accounting for the fact that coding staff or art staff might not have any say in game design decisions, there are certainly still many people alongside sakamoto who contributed to game design and story choices.

Still, at some point in the chain of command, somebody of influence needs to be capable of noticing, "We are developing a Metroid game that has deviated significantly from many of the elements that attracted the current fanbase," and of speaking up about it to influence development. Before we even get to quality-of-excution judgments, "linear" and "plot-driven" are relatively objective statements.

Of course, quality-of-execution judgments also need to be somebody's responsibility when millions of dollars of development money get involved. Somebody has to say that the game doesn't actually benefit from going remote-only, or that pixel hunts are the wrong way to add variety. Somebody has to be able to say, a plot dedicated to making the main character appear weaker at every turn with no final moment of redemption might be well-suited for an experimental project but has no place in a flagship action game.

So where's that cautionary feedback voice supposed to come from? Nintendo's current leadership, as far as I can tell, strongly believes in deferring to the game designers in most situations. If the people with the purse-strings aren't going to call out severe problems in major projects, the creative staff need to be able to help each other out.

I feel like Nintendo is in part responsible for people overemphasizing the importance of individual developers. I wonder to what extent people like sakurai or miyamoto believe their own hype. I've certainly made a hyperbolic statement or two blaming sakamoto personally for other m's issues in the past, and I acknowledge it was absurd. I've done my best to get over placing undue influence on individual developers lately.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
I feel some of you guys are taking the Other M hate way to far. I feel that people are hating for the sake of hating. IMO the game is a solid 7/10. This Samus looking weak thing is as annoying as the skyrim arrow meme. Sure it was silly, but it wasn't really that big of a deal.

And I feel your reasons for liking it are probably flimsy. We can both just dismiss the other side out of hand but its pretty pointless.

I dont actually know why you liked it, just making a point
 
Top Bottom