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[RDreamer]

20 people over four years is a different person every 2 1/2 months. That does seem like a bit much, if that's how you've behaved continuously over nearly half of a decade. I don't think I'd want to date someone whose sex pattern indicates that they aren't willing or capable of settling into a relationship, and I'd additionally be concerned about STDs.

But if we'd been faithfully married for 20 years I don't think I would really care.

It depends on spacing, though. You could have someone that has 2 or 3 off-months throughout that time where they have a different person every week. So 4 new partners per month in those two or three months (which could be spaced out at say one in the beginning of college, and one in 3rd year, etc). You've just taken care of 8-12 of the 20 people, and have 8-12 left for the other 45-46 months. Throw in a couple here and there, (perhaps a hookup or two in between relationships... maybe a start of a relationship or two that didn't work out). You you could still have a relationship of about 6-8 months or even two in there.

Basically the thing is that people in relationships like having sex once or twice a week. If you have a big social life I don't get why it's so disgusting to have sex once a week, even if it's with a different person.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

20 people over four years is a different person every 2 1/2 months. That does seem like a bit much, if that's how you've behaved continuously over nearly half of a decade. I don't think I'd want to date someone whose sex pattern indicates that they aren't willing or capable of settling into a relationship, and I'd additionally be concerned about STDs.

But it could also be 1-3 one-night stands each between 8 six-month relationships.

Edit: bah, beaten.

 

[Devolution]

I probably deserved it. I've got my opinions, it offends people, if he wants to take a jab for me calling promiscuity disgusting, I'm ok with it.

She.

And it's only disgusting to people not secure enough in their own choices.

 

[RDreamer]

The only people who should be dogged are those who can't maintain physical monogamy when they promise it or spend their time slut shaming others because they're insecure with their own sex life.

Precisely.

 

[Opiate]

Without looking up statistics, it sounds like it might be above average. But it honestly doesn't strike me as some absurd "Jesus Christ, was she ever not trying to get laid" figure by any means.

The average is 4. Lifetime.

It's probably kept pretty artificially low given the backlash that happens when it gets over 7. The horror.

Yes, this is entirely possible, but even men average 6-7, and men have the opposite tendency (that is, they tend to inflate their number).

20 is unusually high. I don't think we should be pretending otherwise, because that is an argument we will lose. Instead, we should be arguing that being unusual is okay. There is nothing inherently bad (or good) about being non-average. Oh no, that guy over there is a 6'3'' guy with extremely low body fat% and an IQ of 160! Look at all the ways he is unusual, he must be terrible!

 

[RDreamer]

It's probably kept pretty artificially low given the backlash that happens when it gets over 7. The horror.

It's also kept rather low from the amount of people still alive that only had the 1 (and I suppose some with 0).

I wonder what the average would be if you take out those who are obviously the wait until marriage types. What is the average among those that could go out and have sex with more people?

 

[phosphor112]

She.

Wouldn't have known, and probably won't remember anyway. Only reason why I know you are a girl is because we butt heads so often.

And it's only disgusting to people not secure enough in their own choices.

Don't really understand how this makes me insecure, but ok.

 

[Devolution]

The average is 4. Lifetime.



Yes, this is entirely possible, but even men average 6-7, and men have the opposite tendency (that is, they tend to inflate their number).

20 is unusually high. I don't think we should be pretending otherwise, because that is an argument we will lose. Instead, we should be arguing that being unusual is okay. There is nothing inherently bad (or good) about being non-average.

I don't think 20 is the norm, I just think 4 over the course of a life time is too low. There's nothing bad about low or high, you're right, I don't really care. What I do find despicable however is the shaming.

Wouldn't have known, and probably won't remember anyway. Only reason why I know you are a girl is because we butt heads so often.


Don't really understand how this makes me insecure, but ok.

Because you shouldn't really care and yet here you are calling those people disgusting. And even going so far as to say:

Actively finding partners = time. Time = money.

Are you a robot? Do you have sex with one? All matter of relationships take some kind of investment. Welcome to humanity.

 

[Omegasquash]

The average is 4. Lifetime.



Yes, this is entirely possible, but even men average 6-7, and men have the opposite tendency (that is, they tend to inflate their number).

20 is unusually high. I don't think we should be pretending otherwise, because that is an argument we will lose. Instead, we should be arguing that being unusual is okay. There is nothing inherently bad (or good) about being non-average.

See this is a well thought out response.

Anyway, I think there's a connotation that goes along with unusual, if it's used as a label. The volume, while unusual (and it wasn't unusual in my world/circle), isn't something bad. Which is what the meat of the discourse is on.

Edit: See this is what work does...now I feel all out of the loop on the thread.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

The average is 4. Lifetime.

Anyone have this on a curve? I'd be interested to see the shape of it. Given that the lower bound is 0, I imagine there's quite a long tail, and what that does to the height of the hump at the left of the curve.

20 is unusually high. I don't think we should be pretending otherwise, because that is an argument we will lose. Instead, we should be arguing that being unusual is okay. There is nothing inherently bad (or good) about being non-average.

Yup.

 

[Opiate]

I don't think 20 is the norm, I just think 4 over the course of a life time is too low. There's nothing bad about low or high, you're right, I don't really care. What I do find despicable however is the shaming.

Completely agree, which is why I was using words like "we" when talking about the topic.

One of the reasons I'm such a stickler for facts is that faulty facts are how you lose arguments you should win. If you're arguing against genocide with someone who thinks genocide is a great idea, you can still seem to "lose" that argument if you just start spouting off data that is incorrect, which allows the pro-genocide guy to constantly correct you on it. You'll look like you don't know what you're talking about, while he does.

That's really my motive here. Those little factual details can really bog down an otherwise noble argument if you don't sort them out first.

 

[edible_candle]

Anyone have this on a curve? I'd be interested to see the shape of it. Given that the lower bound is 0, I imagine there's quite a long tail, and what that does to the height of the hump at the left of the curve.

In addition to the curve, I would also be interested in seeing a similar study that only polls people age 23-30 to see the differences (if any) between the population at large and modern post-college graduates.

 

[Devolution]

In addition to the curve, I would also be interested in seeing a similar study that only polls people age 23-30 in order to see the differences between the population at large and modern post-college grads.

I'd argue that pre baby boomers definitely bring the average down.

 

[phosphor112]

Because you shouldn't really care and yet here you are calling those people disgusting. And even going so far as to say:

Are you a robot? Do you have sex with one? All matter of relationships take some kind of investment. Welcome to humanity.

I still don't see how it makes me insecure. In the end, I don't care. Would I still socialize with them? Yeah, why not? Should they be allowed to settle down? I don't see any reason to protest.

I've got my opinions though, that's it.

 

[Omegasquash]

I still don't see how it makes me insecure. In the end, I don't care. Would I still socialize with them? Yeah, why not? Should they be allowed to settle down? I don't see any reason to protest.

I've got my opinions though, that's it.

If your "opinion" of someone is that they're disgusting, and you hang out with them, that probably doesn't jive.

 

[RDreamer]

The average is 4. Lifetime.

Yes, this is entirely possible, but even men average 6-7, and men have the opposite tendency (that is, they tend to inflate their number).

20 is unusually high. I don't think we should be pretending otherwise, because that is an argument we will lose. Instead, we should be arguing that being unusual is okay. There is nothing inherently bad (or good) about being non-average. Oh no, that guy over there is a 6'3'' guy with extremely low body fat% and an IQ of 160! Look at all the ways he is unusual, he must be terrible!

It's high, but is it really unusually high. I realize we're probably getting into semantics discussions here, but the study I linked earlier said: 9% of women had sex with 15 or more men. Nearly a tenth of women really isn't something to sneeze at. It's a bit less than half of the amount of people that have 1 partner forever. So if you take out the quarter of the population that isn't even leaving themselves the option of sleeping with more than one and just go by the people that could have higher numbers, those that reach 15+ are a decent chunk.

Again, still high, but not really eyeball popping if you really analyze things.

 

[phosphor112]

If your "opinion" of someone is that they're disgusting, and you hang out with them, that probably doesn't jive.

I've hung out with "worse." It was more of the situation that they were in the group I was with. I'm not going to say "ew" and leave. It's not that crucial. What am I going to do, go home?... No thanks.

 

[Petrie]

It's high, but is it really unusually high. I realize we're probably getting into semantics discussions here, but the study I linked earlier said: 9% of women had sex with 15 or more men. Nearly a tenth of women really isn't something to sneeze at. It's a bit less than half of the amount of people that have 1 partner forever. So if you take out the quarter of the population that isn't even leaving themselves the option of sleeping with more than one and just go by the people that could have higher numbers, those that reach 15+ are a decent chunk.

Again, still high, but not really eyeball popping if you really analyze things.

And that stat can't even take into account that many women will lie and say a lesser number, ever if promised anonymity. It is likely much higher.

 

[coinoperatedboy]

I've had more!

 

[bill0527]

I was talking with my friend again, who I made this post about and brought up a lot of these points to him.

He truly seems to not be bothered by it, although there was a visceral knee-jerk reaction when he first heard the number.

His wife actually went to college for 7 years, she took some advanced nursing stuff. So break it down 20/7 = around 3 a year and when you are in a college environment, that really doesn't seem like a lot.

He only went to college for one year and dropped out. He had 2 random sexual encounters during that one year. If he went to college 7 years like his wife did, and kept his average of 2 a year, that's 14 women he would have slept with, and thats not all that far away from 20.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I still don't see how it makes me insecure. In the end, I don't care. Would I still socialize with them? Yeah, why not? Should they be allowed to settle down? I don't see any reason to protest.

I've got my opinions though, that's it.

It's entirely possible that even presented more reasonably, people would have taken issue with your opinion. However, it's worth noting that you're getting far more of a pushback than you otherwise would because of the manner in which you have offered your opinion and the fact that it passes qualitative judgment on people and their lifestyle. Not that my wife has had sex with 20 people before we got together, but if she had, your posts convey a sentiment of suggesting that I've married someone who engaged in a disgusting lifestyle.

It's one thing to offer a more diplomatic "call me old fashioned, but 20 people seems like a lot and would make me less interesting in pursuing a relationship with such a person," and it's another thing to suggest that such a past is revolting, or other similar strong adjectives.

 

[Amir0x]

I fully agree on the fact that it's a basic human thing etc.
Let's just hypothetically say you have a lot of sex that does not end in relationships. You drink, wake up naked beside a girl and walk home - repeat. This can be a lot of fun but it can also result in you feeling bad for not having a "normal" relationship with a woman.

Right, but why do you feel "bad"? Is it because there is some innate wiring in your brain that makes you predisposed to depression if you aren't in a so-called "normal relationship", or do some people only feel bad about what is pretty more normal sexual behavior only because of the awkward constraints society tends to put on the act?

I would be interested to see if there were any studies that tackled this, actually. But realistically, we have a wide range of human approaches to sexuality, and there are cultures where sex is as casual as shaking someone's hand, and there seems to be no particular culture-wide depression as a result... because they were raised to think of it as normal.

And they have it right, of course, because there are few things more normal than fucking. Which is why it's a shame some people exalt it to these heights

 

[Omegasquash]

I've hung out with "worse." It was more of the situation that they were in the group I was with. I'm not going to say "ew" and leave. It's not that crucial. What am I going to do, go home?... No thanks.

So what...you're just going to go along with it and tolerate their revolting presence? You don't get to apply a label and then talk about how it's not crucial and not be held accountable for what you said.

 

[Devolution]

I still don't see how it makes me insecure. In the end, I don't care. Would I still socialize with them? Yeah, why not? Should they be allowed to settle down? I don't see any reason to protest.

I've got my opinions though, that's it.

You obviously do care but keep switching hitting stances to avoid the obvious conclusions to what you've posted here.

 

[RDreamer]

And that stat can't even take into account that many women will lie and say a lesser number, ever if promised anonymity. It is likely much higher.

It also doesn't take into account generational changes in attitude. I suppose me clipping off the 25% that only have 1 partner might do that a little, but that probably isn't accurate. Not to mention that study was about a half decade ago, I think.

 

[Devolution]

It also doesn't take into account generational changes in attitude. I suppose me clipping off the 25% that only have 1 partner might do that a little, but that probably isn't accurate. Not to mention that study was about a half decade ago, I think.

I'd say it's even regional. Ask people in urban environments vs the kinds of people who never left their home town.

 

[THRILLH0]

RDreamer do you expect your monogamous friends to explain to you why they would be uncomfortable with an open relationship? Do you consider them judgemental for not wanting their partner to have sex with other people?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you respect their right to hold a different attitude and set of expectations of a relationship than you do.

Why then, if you respect different attitudes towards relationships do you not respect different attitudes towards sex?

If your spouse admitted to cheating on every one of her previous partners, it would suggest something about their respect of the concept of commitment would it not? By the same token, sleeping with 20 people in a 4 year period would suggest that they didn't necessarily view sex as something only to be shared in a committed, loving relationship.

Now, I'm not suggesting that everyone has to view sex through the same lens that I do, I'm merely arguing that it's reasonable hope that my wife does.

As I said, 20 years down the track, it wouldn't be a huge deal but it's not unreasonable that there would be a tinge of disappointment.

Bear in mind that I'm coming at this from the point of view of an already married man and I'm applying the scenario in the OP to my own marriage and in the context of conversations we've already had in which we've expressed our feelings about sex to one another.

 

[Liquidsnake]

She.

And it's only disgusting to people not secure enough in their own choices.

Hmmmmm I don't know about that.

 

[Devolution]

Hmmmmm I don't know about that.

I do. Why care otherwise? The people who care have basically only posited stupid assumptions on behalf of the person who's fucked a lot of people in their book. Assumptions that could just as easily be cast on those with a low number of sexual partners.

 

[Omegasquash]

If your spouse admitted to cheating on every one of her previous partners, it would suggest something about their respect of the concept of commitment would it not? By the same token, sleeping with 20 people in a 4 year period would suggest that they didn't necessarily view sex as something only to be shared in a committed, loving relationship.

I have to point out...sometimes people agree that you just don't fuck other people when you're married. It's not only to be shared in a committed, loving relationship, but those in a committed, loving relationship have it with only their partner. Normally married folks also only live with one another, too.

 

[Devolution]

I'd like to point out that someone not invested in a monogamous relationship at a certain point in their life doesn't mean they're incapable of having one. Once again some people want to project dumbass ideas about other's sexual preferences and proclivities.

 

[phosphor112]

So what...you're just going to go along with it and tolerate their revolting presence? You don't get to apply a label and then talk about how it's not crucial and not be held accountable for what you said.

You obviously do care but keep switching hitting stances to avoid the obvious conclusions to what you've posted here.

I've accepted accountability. Why do you think I didn't care that other poster made a personal insult toward me? Because what I said offends people, plain and simple.

Why wouldn't I adapt to my social surroundings? People know what I think about smoking and drinking, yet I've been around people that do both, often. It's not crucial to the social setting. Do I think smoking and drinking is revolting? Yes. Once again, it shouldn't matter like that, just like I said 20 men and 20 years later, it doesn't matter what your wife said, it SHOULDN'T matter. I went out with someone that smoked before, did it matter? No, I don't care because it was in the past.

 

[demented]

I'd high five her, not a problem really.

 

[Poindexter]

If I found out my wife slept with 20 guys in college I'd just be happy about all the tricks she probably learned. w00t w00t. If she's telling me 20 years later and I'm surprised then I assume it didn't really have a negative impact on her in the long run so who gives a shit?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I've accepted accountability. Why do you think I didn't care that other poster made a personal insult toward me? Because what I said offends people, plain and simple.

Why wouldn't I adapt to my social surroundings? People know what I think about smoking and drinking, yet I've been around people that do both, often. It's not crucial to the social setting. Do I think smoking and drinking is revolting? Yes. Once again, it shouldn't matter like that, just like I said 20 men and 20 years later, it doesn't matter what your wife said, it SHOULDN'T matter. I went out with someone that smoked before, did it matter? No, I don't care because it was in the past.

Smoking I can see (despite being an ex-smoker myself), but drinking? I think you apply the adjective "revolting" far too liberally.

 

[RDreamer]

RDreamer do you expect your monogamous friends to explain to you why they would be uncomfortable with an open relationship? Do you consider them judgemental for not wanting their partner to have sex with other people?

For mere monogamy? No, I wouldn't consider them judgmental. If that's how they operate, then that's fine. Other lifestyles aren't for everyone. Some of the things they do might be considered judgmental to me, though my particular friends don't often get into those sorts of things (things like oh noes he talked to a girl, I'm going to be really mad now!).

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you respect their right to hold a different attitude and set of expectations of a relationship than you do.

Right, the expectations of a relationship fall between the two in that relationship.

Why then, if you respect different attitudes towards relationships do you not respect different attitudes towards sex?

I do respect it with regard to your own sex. When you start painting others with a wide brush is when it gets a bit on my nerves. I have respect for different attitudes, but I'm not certain I should have respect for people's disrespect of other people's attitudes.

If your spouse admitted to cheating on every one of her previous partners, it would suggest something about their respect of the concept of commitment would it not? By the same token, sleeping with 20 people in a 4 year period would suggest that they didn't necessarily view sex as something only to be shared in a committed, loving relationship.

Sure, it might suggest that they didn't necessarily view sex only in that way, but does that preclude them from also viewing it that way?

I think a lot of people have some insecurities that if someone is able to separate sex from some or all emotion that maybe they're doing that when they have sex with them... that they're not putting their all into it, or that it's the only way they can be. But some people can separate it, but also with certain people view it as a huge, magical, awesome thing. To suggest that someone who has had multiple partners simply cannot view sex with you in a similar way you do seems flawed.... and possibly unnecessary.

Now, I'm not suggesting that everyone has to view sex through the same lens that I do, I'm merely arguing that it's reasonable hope that my wife does.

We all have different lenses no matter what. My wife certainly doesn't view everything the exact same way I do. That'd be a bit odd. As long as we're on the same page as far as commitment, exclusivity, future, etc etc, I'm not sure why she has to view something the exact same way. This is especially true when you're talking about the past. Some people here are not thinking that someone could have gone out and had a lot of sex, but regretted it and maybe turned over a new leaf. But now suddenly because they did that in the past they're still bad? Seems rotten to me to view them that way.

 

[SmokyDave]

I've accepted accountability. Why do you think I didn't care that other poster made a personal insult toward me? Because what I said offends people, plain and simple.

Why wouldn't I adapt to my social surroundings? People know what I think about smoking and drinking, yet I've been around people that do both, often. It's not crucial to the social setting. Do I think smoking and drinking is revolting? Yes. Once again, it shouldn't matter like that, just like I said 20 men and 20 years later, it doesn't matter what your wife said, it SHOULDN'T matter. I went out with someone that smoked before, did it matter? No, I don't care because it was in the past.

So you find drinking, smoking, and casual sex revolting?

We should hit the town one Saturday night.

(I'll admit, I'm not a fan of drinking during casual sex. Too much spillage).

 

[phosphor112]

Smoking I can see (despite being an ex-smoker myself), but drinking? I think you apply the adjective "revolting" far too liberally.

The smell of fermented alcohol literally makes me want to vomit. Had a bad experience when I was a child that points to that issue of mine.

 

[THRILLH0]

I'd like to point out that someone not invested in a monogamous relationship at a certain point in their life doesn't mean they're incapable of having one . Once again some people want to project dumbass ideas about other's sexual preferences and proclivities.

Did I state otherwise?

 

[Omegasquash]

I've accepted accountability. Why do you think I didn't care that other poster made a personal insult toward me? Because what I said offends people, plain and simple.

Why wouldn't I adapt to my social surroundings? People know what I think about smoking and drinking, yet I've been around people that do both, often. It's not crucial to the social setting. Do I think smoking and drinking is revolting? Yes. Once again, it shouldn't matter like that, just like I said 20 men and 20 years later, it doesn't matter what your wife said, it SHOULDN'T matter. I went out with someone that smoked before, did it matter? No, I don't care because it was in the past.

Doesn't change the fact that if you think someone is disgusting or revolting then it's going to color your interactions with them. Now if you hide what you think by acting totally cool, then you're just acting totally cool.

People don't want to be around someone that thinks they're gross. And if you're hanging around with someone when you think they're gross (especially if you indicate warmth and friendship), then you're not being honest.

(I'll admit, I'm not a fan of drinking during casual sex. Too much spillage).

Prude.

 

[Hightower]

Sweet jesus.. there is no reason for this thread to be 25 pages.


I honestly can not believe this conversation is still going on.

 

[RDreamer]

I'd like to point out that someone not invested in a monogamous relationship at a certain point in their life doesn't mean they're incapable of having one. Once again some people want to project dumbass ideas about other's sexual preferences and proclivities.

Seriously. I brought up a scenario of someone wanting to concentrate on college and purposefully not getting into a long relationship so they could do better and be free to go where their career will take them after college. I'm not sure anyone really responded to that. It's really not an out-of-left-field suggestion.

 

[Circle Jerk]

The smell of fermented alcohol literally makes me want to vomit. Had a bad experience when I was a child that points to that issue of mine.

Considering how many messed up issues you clearly have, you must have had a lot of bad childhood experiences.

 

[Liquidsnake]

If I found out my wife slept with 20 guys in college I'd just be happy about all the tricks she probably learned. w00t w00t. If she's telling me 20 years later and I'm surprised then I assume it didn't really have a negative impact on her in the long run so who gives a shit?

The following pertains to me personally. I was with a girl who slept with everyone under the sun, (probably close to 17-20) We were in a relationship for 6 months, I would be lying if I said it didn't bother me sometimes. "Oh yeah my Ski instructor" "My Karate teacher" "this guy I met at the library" I was like uhhhhhh no thanks.

I never once considered her for long term or anything.

It has nothing to do with my insecurities or what ever anyone might attribute it to. Its just me. I went with a girl whom I was her second, and have been with her for 5.5 years now.

Mess around with and have loads of fun sure, marriage material? Not for me.

My number is also close to 20 though I lost count.

 

[Omegasquash]

Seriously. I brought up a scenario of someone wanting to concentrate on college and purposefully not getting into a long relationship so they could do better and be free to go where their career will take them after college. I'm not sure anyone really responded to that. It's really not an out-of-left-field suggestion.

"I don't want a boyfriend right now, I'm doing lots of things and seeing things and I don't want to be tied down."

It hurt like fuck to hear it from my ex-GF, but looking back on it...she was at least being honest with me.

 

[Future PhaZe]

The average is 4. Lifetime.



Yes, this is entirely possible, but even men average 6-7, and men have the opposite tendency (that is, they tend to inflate their number).

20 is unusually high. I don't think we should be pretending otherwise, because that is an argument we will lose. Instead, we should be arguing that being unusual is okay. There is nothing inherently bad (or good) about being non-average. Oh no, that guy over there is a 6'3'' guy with extremely low body fat% and an IQ of 160! Look at all the ways he is unusual, he must be terrible!

I don't know if any of this data is relevant to us today though. We're living in a social boom with the internet, smart phones, online dating becoming a normal thing, etc.

There's a saying of "you're only as faithful as your options", and the truth is people even five years ago didn't have nearly as many options as they do now when it comes to snapping their fingers and getting a date or connecting with a person.

 

[Mully]

Considering how many messed up issues you clearly have, you must have had a lot of bad childhood experiences.

Seriously? Fuck off man. That's no way to talk to someone.

 

[oktarb]

In other news: Guy who's wife slept with over twenty men in college has not himself slept with twenty women. Outrage to follow.

 

[Oemenia]

BTW anyone read that Cracked article that says that its almost impossible to be such a disparity between the number that men and women average?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

The following pertains to me personally. I was with a girl who slept with everyone under the sun, (probably close to 17-20) We were in a relationship for 6 months, I would be lying if I said it didn't bother me sometimes. I never once considered her for long term or anything.

It has nothing to do with my insecurities or what ever anyone might attribute it to. Its just me. I went with a girl whom I was her second, and have been with her for 5.5 years now.

Mess around with and have loads of fun sure, marriage material? Not for me.

In regards to the bolded, what? 17-20 equates to everyone under the sun?