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Zelda Skyward Sword Spoiler Thread: Retelling the Legend without the black bars

Emitan

Member
The ending was super disappointing after seeing everyone hype it up, and especially comparing it to TP's. Two forms of Ghirahim and two "stages" of Akuma hardly compared to the four wildly different forms/stages of Ganon. And the epilogue was cool but doesn't come close to topping "Link... I'll... see you later."

Me and my friend actually starting laughing at Fi because they had literally spent the last 40 hours making her the most boring, lifeless character I've ever seen, but apparently I was supposed to become attached to her in some way?!
 
I finally beat this game yesterday. Did not like it, unfortunately. First Nintendo-developed console title that I thought was just average. I liked some of the scenes in the end, and the Zelda Overworld theme made me happy... that's about it. I felt like the story could've been handled better, but I guess I shouldn't expect that considering that Nintendo doesn't exactly put a focus on story. I hated the dungeons, too. Sky Keep especially.
 

Sagitario

Member
TP Zelda design is my favorite one! I think I will replay TP when SS stops being so fresh on my mind (will do a TP -> SS run).

I loved the twilight particle effects, so glad they used them in Skyward Sword. It was a nice surprise for me (as silly as it may sound).

I found nothing wrong with the cutscenes of SS, they felt zeldish and normal to me. I liked them.
 

FreeMufasa

Junior Member
^ My favourite Zelda design too.


The problem with this scene is although it looks good. Link and Zelda just don't know each other. I think that's the first time they directly speak to each other throughout the whole game with most of the communication through Midna and Zelda. I replayed it recently and that whole scene just seemd awkward. Like a "the fuck are you?" kind of thing.

I've said I much prefer TP but that's one thing I have to hand to SS. They did the Link/Zelda relationship much better than TP.
 

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
I agree.

I still think that scene resonates though, but in a different way. The ruler of Hyrule, vulnerable, asking for Link's help. Sort of funny he's only asked when he really can't refuse. :p I also think it was trying to say more about Link's character than his and Zelda's relationship.
 

RagnarokX

Member
7mSF1.png

The people of Outset Island perform a disturbing ritual. A boy, when he becomes the age of the hero, is dressed in green and sacrificed to their god, Demise...
 

Azure J

Member
All these Oni Akuma mentions reminds me of the first thing my brother shouted when I started playing the final battle:

"What the fuck?! I thought Oni was banned, why's he in my Zelda?"
 
Got past the spot where I found all the Kikwiis and am enjoying the game. Too bad I can only play it at my parent's, since it's saved on their wii and only they have wii motion +.
 

JonCha

Member
Finished watching the credits just now. I think this is my favourite Zelda game ever, though I haven't played Majora's Mask.

To me the final boss was underwhelmiing. Ghirahim was a joke: despite looking like a total badass, and Fi commenting on his increased 'muscular power', he really didn't put up a fight. The only problem I was having was trying to swing my sword to repel the discs, which didn't work when swinging horizontally and the discs kept going into the floor.

Demise was easy once you knew what to do. Parry, attack, parry, attack. I did die during the second stage, but only because I was backing off and didn't realise you could parry the electric sword. Bit of a joke, really.

Aside from that, I though the art style was great (though the potential for it on a HD console...). Zelda was the most likeable Zelda I've ever seen in a Zelda game, imo due to her similar age/background to Link and how you actually get to see her throughout the game so you feel like you're really trying to catch up with her. Though, are they close friends? Sure, there's some romantic teases at the beginning, but Zelda never really seems to be that likeable towards Link outside of being the Hero.

But while the cutscenes were good, voice acting would have made them a whole lot better. When characters are silently laughing and interacting without voice you're kinda wondering what's going on. They've even going to the trouble of doing the animations as if the characters are talking.

I was also a little disappointed in two things: that, when in the past, it really wasn't different to the present - I was hoping it would be the dawn of the time like in the OoT cutscenes which explains how the land was created. I'm also disappointed that there's no post-game, where I can just continue collecting. Really haven't got the motivation to do it now I'm back pre-killing Demise again.

For the Wii U Zelda, they do need to continue making changes. Voice acting for everyone bar Link has to be done (Mass Effect does it just fine), even if Zelda's voice actor has to change in every game. Motion controls could be great with revised tech, and more variety in side quests please. Everything is a fetch quest, from finding a lost person to collecting Gratitude Crystals.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Finished watching the credits just now. I think this is my favourite Zelda game ever, though I haven't played Majora's Mask.

To me the final boss was underwhelmiing. Ghirahim was a joke: despite looking like a total badass, and Fi commenting on his increased 'muscular power', he really didn't put up a fight. The only problem I was having was trying to swing my sword to repel the discs, which didn't work when swinging horizontally and the discs kept going into the floor.

Demise was easy once you knew what to do. Parry, attack, parry, attack. I did die during the second stage, but only because I was backing off and didn't realise you could parry the electric sword. Bit of a joke, really.

Aside from that, I though the art style was great (though the potential for it on a HD console...). Zelda was the most likeable Zelda I've ever seen in a Zelda game, imo due to her similar age/background to Link and how you actually get to see her throughout the game so you feel like you're really trying to catch up with her. Though, are they close friends? Sure, there's some romantic teases at the beginning, but Zelda never really seems to be that likeable towards Link outside of being the Hero.

But while the cutscenes were good, voice acting would have made them a whole lot better. When characters are silently laughing and interacting without voice you're kinda wondering what's going on. They've even going to the trouble of doing the animations as if the characters are talking.

I was also a little disappointed in two things: that, when in the past, it really wasn't different to the present - I was hoping it would be the dawn of the time like in the OoT cutscenes which explains how the land was created. I'm also disappointed that there's no post-game, where I can just continue collecting. Really haven't got the motivation to do it now I'm back pre-killing Demise again.

For the Wii U Zelda, they do need to continue making changes. Voice acting for everyone bar Link has to be done (Mass Effect does it just fine), even if Zelda's voice actor has to change in every game. Motion controls could be great with revised tech, and more variety in side quests please. Everything is a fetch quest, from finding a lost person to collecting Gratitude Crystals.
Sounds like you didn't figure out the epic lightning sword attack during the Demise fight? Also, play Spirit Tracks. She's still the best Zelda :D
 

Orgen

Member
Finished watching the credits just now. I think this is my favourite Zelda game ever, though I haven't played Majora's Mask.

To me the final boss was underwhelmiing. Ghirahim was a joke: despite looking like a total badass, and Fi commenting on his increased 'muscular power', he really didn't put up a fight. The only problem I was having was trying to swing my sword to repel the discs, which didn't work when swinging horizontally and the discs kept going into the floor.

Demise was easy once you knew what to do. Parry, attack, parry, attack. I did die during the second stage, but only because I was backing off and didn't realise you could parry the electric sword. Bit of a joke, really.

Aside from that, I though the art style was great (though the potential for it on a HD console...). Zelda was the most likeable Zelda I've ever seen in a Zelda game, imo due to her similar age/background to Link and how you actually get to see her throughout the game so you feel like you're really trying to catch up with her. Though, are they close friends? Sure, there's some romantic teases at the beginning, but Zelda never really seems to be that likeable towards Link outside of being the Hero.

But while the cutscenes were good, voice acting would have made them a whole lot better. When characters are silently laughing and interacting without voice you're kinda wondering what's going on. They've even going to the trouble of doing the animations as if the characters are talking.

I was also a little disappointed in two things: that, when in the past, it really wasn't different to the present - I was hoping it would be the dawn of the time like in the OoT cutscenes which explains how the land was created. I'm also disappointed that there's no post-game, where I can just continue collecting. Really haven't got the motivation to do it now I'm back pre-killing Demise again.

For the Wii U Zelda, they do need to continue making changes. Voice acting for everyone bar Link has to be done (Mass Effect does it just fine), even if Zelda's voice actor has to change in every game. Motion controls could be great with revised tech, and more variety in side quests please. Everything is a fetch quest, from finding a lost person to collecting Gratitude Crystals.

So it was easy and you did die in a Zelda game?... Do you know that you can charge your sword with lightning in the second fight?

And about the second, did you read Zelda's diary in her room? I think it's all pretty clear.

I'm in a mood of Zelda. I was thinking about replaying Wind Waker or TP. And I have Phantom Hourglass too (just a two hours save game). What would you recommend?
 

JonCha

Member
Sounds like you didn't figure out the epic lightning sword attack during the Demise fight? Also, play Spirit Tracks. She's still the best Zelda :D

You could do that? No way. I tried doing a Skyward Strike at the beginning but nothing happened lol. I'm guessing that makes the fight a lot quicker/easier.

So it was easy and you did die in a Zelda game?... Do you know that you can charge your sword with lightning in the second fight?

And about the second, did you read Zelda's diary in her room? I think it's all pretty clear.

I'm in a mood of Zelda. I was thinking about replaying Wind Waker or TP. And I have Phantom Hourglass too (just a two hours save game). What would you recommend?

Yeah, I read her diary. I guess hints are there, but it was never startlingly obvious apart from the beginning of the game.

And yeah, SS is an easy game. The dungeons are not hard - the signs are there for what you need to do, especially because dungeons are mostly built around an item or two. Boss fights are also built around an item, whether bombs are the blow/vacuum thing.

And as others have said, the game is pretty linear. It's hardly Skyrim where you're chucked into doing whatever, but I don't think that approach would ever work in a Zelda game.
 

Orgen

Member
You could do that? No way. I tried doing a Skyward Strike at the beginning but nothing happened lol. I'm guessing that makes the fight a lot quicker/easier.



Yeah, I read her diary. I guess hints are there, but it was never startlingly obvious apart from the beginning of the game.

And yeah, SS is an easy game. The dungeons are not hard - the signs are there for what you need to do, especially because dungeons are mostly built around an item or two. Boss fights are also built around an item, whether bombs are the blow/vacuum thing.

And as others have said, the game is pretty linear. It's hardly Skyrim where you're chucked into doing whatever, but I don't think that approach would ever work in a Zelda game.

You have to do it when he does (second part of the fight, when there's lightning).

That's because there's only interaction between Zelda & Link at the beginning. And when you meet again, all the "I'm still your Zelda..." if you think it's not obvious enough I don't know what more I can say!

I didn't say anything about SS being an easy/hard game ;) It's just funny that you said "Demise was easy..." and then die in the fight.

And yes, the game is easy and pretty linear but the one/two item dungeon/boss thing is more flagrant in TP IMO.
 

Xun

Member
Did anyone else notice this?

c6GlM.png


I know there's occasionally bad translation in the game, but this caught my eye.
 

PokéKong

Member
Several weeks after beating this game, I still can't really decide how I feel about it.

The story, the core characters, the gameplay mechanics, the orchestrated music, and the style are all absolutely top notch. But I can't seem to forgive it for certain things. I think it's a great game, but probably not a great Zelda game. I'd recommend it to the type of person who likes game from Treasure, who can admire oldschool games for their well crafted mechanics and super tight controls, but not to the average Zelda fan who admires OoT and MM and WW for their cute characters and personality and little mini stories scattered throughout.

I just felt like a robot solving problems, terminating lifeforms, working puzzles, going from one place to the next retrieving objects. Perhaps the recycled old Zelda formula has left me fatigued and cynical, or maybe this one failed keep me emotionally interested. The effect of the wonderful opening to the story certainly had to wear off after all that time, I was expecting more nice interaction with Zelda eventually, but at a certain point I realized they were just teasing me and it wouldn't happen until the very end of the game. They probably wanted this to be my motivation, but it just killed most of mine. I feel so lonely out there on the surface, Fi is literally a computer, speaking only in terms of math, you'll never hear her say something like "oh Link, this place is giving me a creepy ominous feeling..." she would say "Master, there is a 99% chance you're about to have a boss fight." on top of the fact of how obvious her statements are, it certainly doesn't help my whole cynical feeling on how formulaic thing are. Contrast with Spirit Tracks where Zelda is with you at all times and injects relatable human emotion into everything, she wants to stop the bad guys from using her body to host their evil master because that's incredibly disturbing and gross.

The story which seems so great at first just drops out from under you. My mouth was gaping open when Impa was all like "no, go away, no Zelda for you, nope you don't even get any exposition yet, keep beating dungeons and I'll let you know when to stop, just be a good boy and run long and keep pushing blocks and pulling levers and killing monsters." almost literally. They even left behind TP's creative premises for each dungeon, there were no big creepy mansion, no ancient tomb, no monster's innards, no tree's innards... just straight up "temples" tailor made for you to do the old Zelda dungeon routine. Maybe just "mining facility" deviating the most from being generic.

Also the Kikwi, Mogmas, robots, and the Parella didn't help with the feeling that the whole surface is a lonely place devoid of life. While a couple of them were somewhat amusing, I just couldn't think of them as people, just goofy little creatures with no real character, not at all on the same level as Zoras or Koroks.

I'm starting to think the Zelda team should have made a Metroid game. Most of the faults of this game would in fact be perks in a Metroid game. The the tangled labyrinthian landscape, the feeling of total isolation while on the majority of your adventure, the only interaction being with inhuman creatures or your computer, and almost the only strong story elements being the bookends of the game, the wonderful opening and a thrilling and memorable final boss fight.

There are no fairy fountains, no chickens, no familiar locations, you don't actually have to remember and play songs, no singular overworld to explore, just a hub which leads to extended dungeons. I was expecting something like meeting a baby sapling of the first Deku Tree, things like that to make them game feel truly established in the Zelda world, and not just a game that happens to have rupees and bombs and a Master Sword in it because "look look! see? it's a Zelda game, he's wearing green now."
I feel like Mario jumping into a painting all "let's a-go!" whenever diving into a hole in the clouds. I was really hoping I would eventually discover passageways from one surface area to another which would allow me to travel without the aid of flying eventually, and to certainly help the world feel a little bit cohesive and genuine.
This might've been interesting if they decided to craft a new IP or used it on a more neglected one, but at a certain point I wonder why this is a Zelda game when certain standards have been set by previous games.

Though I'm essentially just marking the game down for focusing too much on its gameplay mechanics, which seems hypocritical with how I judge most other games, so I'm still conflicted.
 

JonCha

Member
You have to do it when he does (second part of the fight, when there's lightning).

That's because there's only interaction between Zelda & Link at the beginning. And when you meet again, all the "I'm still your Zelda..." if you think it's not obvious enough I don't know what more I can say!

I didn't say anything about SS being an easy/hard game ;) It's just funny that you said "Demise was easy..." and then die in the fight.

And yes, the game is easy and pretty linear but the one/two item dungeon/boss thing is more flagrant in TP IMO.

Do you think? Apart from the opening, I really didn't think it was that obvious. I think that's because you're reading text all the time and, despite Zelda crying, it all feels a little half-hearted. Text can be interpreted in a lot of ways; you can't get that emotion and projection across like you can through voice.

Did Zelda ever say something like 'I'm still your Zelda'? I can't remember seeing her say that.

And Demise was easy. Just because I died, it doesn't mean it's hard. I didn't die because I was getting dominated or because of a lack of skill, I just had to realise you could parry an electrically-charged sword. It wasn't difficult to do that: I did it first time, flawlessly.
 

abasm

Member
PokéKong;34289686 said:
I'd recommend it to the type of person who likes game from Treasure, who can admire oldschool games for their well crafted mechanics and super tight controls, but not to the average Zelda fan who admires OoT and MM and WW for their cute characters and personality and little mini stories scattered throughout.

I don't think there is such a thing as an "average Zelda fan"; lots of people like the series for different reasons, and Nintendo is often tasked with appealing to different subsets of their fanbase with each new game, while trying to make each game fresh and exciting. Rather than overhaul every area of the game with each new title, they focus on one or two aspects of the "formula", change those, and refine everything else.

Some examples:
- Majora's Mask focused on improving world development and side-quests. Ocarina never gave you a huge reason to care about the world you're saving, and most of the stuff outside of the main quest is clinically dry.
- Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are two radically different aesthetic interpretations of the series and probably gave rise to the term "Zelda formula", as neither of the two play around with core mechanics much. Wind Waker takes its aesthetic cues from story books and illustration, while Twilight Princess looks more to high fantasy for inspiration.
- Skyward Sword is a very mechanically-minded game. It aims to resolve a lot of lingering problems with the existing "formula" (item glut, poor rupee economy, wasted space, ease of combat) while accommodating a completely new control scheme.

By comparison, the handheld games improve more incrementally, adhering to a much more rigid formula, but are brought under less scrutiny.

The main problem the Zelda series suffers is the long turnaround time for each new game. By the time a new game is released, Nintendo is forced to accommodate those who would be experiencing the series for the very first time. Since the game comprises many different "tasks" (combat, puzzle-solving, exploration), Nintendo has to dilute each for the lowest common denominator. (Unlike the Mario series, which is much more straight-forward, and has a greater degree of leniency in its difficult curve.) If Nintendo were able to repurpose an existing game engine (as they did with Majora's Mask, the Oracle games, and Spirit Tracks) to release two similar Zelda games for each new console generation, the first could be the more sanitary and approachable title, while the second could be more difficult, more divisive, and more experimental. Nintendo could, in effect, spend more time building the game than the tech.

Odds are, if we see anything of this nature manifest itself, it won't be until near the end of the Wii U's lifespan. The Wii is done, and the visual bar has already been set high for the next Zelda title.
 

RagnarokX

Member
You could do that? No way. I tried doing a Skyward Strike at the beginning but nothing happened lol. I'm guessing that makes the fight a lot quicker/easier.

Easier, but a lot more epic. Really gets your adrenalin pumping, but that may be lost since you didn't have the eureka moment on your own. I thought they were very clever in telling you to do it. They show Demise do it the first time. Then as you are fighting him, lightning keeps striking near Link, showing that Demise isn't summoning the lighting and that the lightning might hit Link. Makes you think "lightning rod."
 

PokéKong

Member
I don't think there is such a thing as an "average Zelda fan"; lots of people like the series for different reasons, and Nintendo is often tasked with appealing to different subsets of their fanbase with each new game, while trying to make each game fresh and exciting. Rather than overhaul every area of the game with each new title, they focus on one or two aspects of the "formula", change those, and refine everything else.

You are right, I always forget how dramatically split everyone is on Zelda. I just have my own picture in my head of what most Zelda fans are like, based on my experience in real life and on tumblr and not so much the rest of the internet, which is that the biggest Zelda fans are girls, who besides Zelda mainly play the likes of Pokemon and Animal Crossing. Cute things which get by on their charm and personality.

I really hope that with the 3DS and beyond, as Nintendo's handhelds begin to close the margin between handheld and console, we will see much more console style Zelda games on a portable with the aim of appealing to certain sensibilities different from that of the console series, yet still not differ too much in gameplay mechanics.
 

Link Man

Banned
And Demise was easy. Just because I died, it doesn't mean it's hard. I didn't die because I was getting dominated or because of a lack of skill, I just had to realise you could parry an electrically-charged sword. It wasn't difficult to do that: I did it first time, flawlessly.

You didn't realize that before? You had to do it in at least two other battles to progress (the robot pirate, for reference).
 

Toth

Member
I finished the game on Saturday and just a brief synopsis of my thoughts:

Pros:
1. Extremely well-designed dungeons and overworld 'puzzles'. This was the game's greatest strength. The timestone dungeons and concept itself were brilliant and handled very well. Their goal of creating a living, breathing world was a success imho.

2. The storyline was emotional and satisfying as an origin story. I enjoyed Groose's development and Link's growth as he became the hero of legend. Zelda and Impa were also well written and I enjoyed the fact that Link and Zelda actually had a strong relationship at the start.

3. Upgrading items and shields gave the game a more RPG feeling.

4. TONS of content to partake in. The Hero Quest was an excellent idea for the hardcore gamers looking for a challenge.

5. Very rich graphics that offered a satisfying medium between the too cartoony WW and the realistic TP.

Cons:
1. Spotty motion control made platforming and combat more difficult than it needed to be. The Wii Remote was not very responsive to subtle changes.

2. Too much padding. The game was literally:
1) Get Three Items to access three main areas
2) Puzzle in the Thunderhead
3) Go back to the three main areas and get Three New Items
4) Battle in the Thunderhead
5) Go back to the three areas and get Three New Items
6) Finale

I enjoyed the run but was getting tired of the repeating by step 5....

3. Fi's useless 'analysis' and getting cutscenes for picking up an item every time the game was reset.

Still, all in all, the game is a very solid 9.0 for me, up to 9.5 for the vast amount of content. I may have enjoyed the dark storyline of TP more but I enjoyed this romp through Hyrule just as much.
 

Busaiku

Member
Can't remember all the games' stories too well (I didn't even finish most of them), but was the fact that part of Demise's consciousness being sealed in the Master Sword addressed?
Like it escaping out or something from that.

Also liked that Zelda's journey snips were shown during the credits.
 

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Just finished it, loved it. Really liked h\ow the story is presented, by not throwing out all the facts in your face. It makes you question and want to find out more, that's the right way to do things.

Controls were mostly perfect except for thrusting, that didnt always work well.

Overall a little on the easy side of things, I really liked when they threw 10000 orcs at you towards the last fight, I wish there were more moments like that. The handholding was a little annoying from the middle of the game onwards, they need to make that information more optional.

Such an impressive game though, especially on old ass hardware. Nintendo is going to make wonders on HD. Im fully confident they will have a full streaming game world on the Wii U, it wouldn't have improved this game tenfold if you could transition from the sky to the earth without loading times, but oh well.

One complaint Im noticing I have about Zelda games is that while the worlds have a lot of shit in them, they all feel abandoned. twilight Princess was the worst at it, but I wish there was a zelda game where it is a more global struggle, rather than have everybody be oblivious about whats going on except for 3 people. It would have been great of there were some back and forths between you and the enemies, what if Skyloft was invaded at some point? Something to tie everything a bit more.

Great, great game. Collecting the notes was easy as soon as I noticed that spinning = win
 

Joei

Member
Maybe my mind's drawing a blank here or something, but is there a place where the Goron's live? You get the one who helps you throughout the game, but I can't recall ever visiting a place where he would reside. The game took me about a month and a half to complete, so maybe I'm forgetting it or something.

Also liked that Zelda's journey snips were shown during the credits.

I thought that was totally cool as well. Really surprised me and was really well done.
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
You could read Zelda's diary? mind blown.

I actually super cheesed Demise's first form. I didn't even think to do three parries in a row because my nunchuk was starting to feel unresponsive for some reason. I just did a few opposing sword swings to land a first hit on Demise, then backflipped his counterattack. After repeating this a LOT of times, he goes into his second form.
 
Also, I'd like to say that Skyward Sword's enemy variety is pathetic. Here's some enemies that I really think should have been in the game in some fashion:

And the lack of Poes just feels wrong. They don't even really need to be collectibles, but 3D Zelda without them seems incorrect.

So yeah, Darknut, Like Like, Bubble, Dodongo, Gohma, ReDead, and Poe.

No, pretty sure those lantern guys in the Silent Realms were Poes.

Also, Demise seems like a pretty chill guy, aside from wanting to destroy humans or whatever. He was really nice and civil to Link, aside from insulting humans.
 
Was I the only person greatly disappointed by the fact that going back in time didn't reveal an entirely new world to explore? When I found out I was going back in time, damn did I want to explore the three parts of the world, ravaged by war, and maybe have some puzzles and quests related to going back and forth in time, and maybe even get to see a brand new skyloft, with hints for what would become its culture in the future.

It was a repeat of Wind Waker, the moment you find yourself in an underwater Hyrule, but you can't explore it.
 

Mistle

Member
Was I the only person greatly disappointed by the fact that going back in time didn't reveal an entirely new world to explore? When I found out I was going back in time, damn did I want to explore the three parts of the world, ravaged by war, and maybe have some puzzles and quests related to going back and forth in time, and maybe even get to see a brand new skyloft, with hints for what would become its culture in the future.

It was a repeat of Wind Waker, the moment you find yourself in an underwater Hyrule, but you can't explore it.

I greatly wanted this but I never expected Nintendo were actually going to do it.
 
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