Me neither. If you don't like a style, that's fine. But don't criticize the studio for not being able to do something that suits your taste. I'm pretty sure the art style (and the faces) are intentional.
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Xenoblade Chronicles X - Nintendo Direct Footage 11.5.2014
- Thread starter Soriku
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Me neither. If you don't like a style, that's fine. But don't criticize the studio for not being able to do something that suits your taste. I'm pretty sure the art style (and the faces) are intentional.
lostinblue
Banned
I've said it yesterday on some other thread that got locked (due to being an old resuscitated thread) but I'll say it again. Taking two upcoming games on the same premise, this game impresses me more on the Wii U than FFXV does on the PS4.
Namely, yeah, this game is doing shortcuts, plenty of them and it still looks badass. That last FFXV video they've shown though, does a lot of shortcuts I wasn't expecting them to do on the PS4 and has as much pop up as this, it doesn't even look all that much better on the things it's doing that are more complex, like the grass (particles and rain do, though) - Even their so called tech demo had massive pop-up in a tricking cave.
Anyway, it's less impressive to me than I ever thought it would be (even though I think the graphics are fine) and it's using the same shortcuts, perhaps in an even more aggressive manner because it was getting on my nerves more than Xenoblade X is.
So really, I don't get any Xenoblade criticism in regards to graphics at this point. It's pushing the envelope on the Wii U, even the FFXV are doing more compromises than I thought they would on a damn PS4.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
I feel the same, I try to ignore the guy but he seems to be in every thread I be in, im just so shocked no mod has bothered to ban him yet.
ninjablade
Banned
I messaged dark10x, and asked him if X had dynamic lighting, he works for DF, and knows his shit
basically in the footage we have nothing suggest it's using dynamic lighting, then i asked him about RDR, and he said yes, RDR is dynamic
It's dangerous alone on GAF, take this ignore list.
Re: the Faces. I eventually got over it in Xenoblade, but they still have that weird trice 360/PS3 JRPG look to them where there were a ton of games in this weird uncanny valley.
That being said -- it's not really going to be a detriment to the gameplay, and I can't imagine it would really hurt my engagement with the story, seeing as I survived some weird looking games from last gen.
That being said -- it's not really going to be a detriment to the gameplay, and I can't imagine it would really hurt my engagement with the story, seeing as I survived some weird looking games from last gen.
DangerMouse
Member
Can't freaking wait for this game.
Give it to me now.gif is so appropriate for this!
Yeah.
Give it to me now.gif is so appropriate for this!
Yeah.
plank
Member
He probably doesn't even have the same idea what your talking about much like the rest of us.
Good point, only time I'll actually have a good look at their faces is during cut scenes or if I ever purposefully turn the camera on myself which may be never.
SoraanTribal
Member
It's interesting that we haven't seen that Shulk look-alike character since the very first reveal trailer. I wonder what role in the story he will play. I guess it could have just been a player-created model, but doubtful. I feel like the way that first trailer made it look, that character would be important.
The Shulk look alike will be the new
!
The Shulk look alike will be the new
Abel
xplicitone
Member
I don't mind a summer or fall release for this next year one bit. Looks great
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
The game still looks amazing, and it seems like there's going to be a lot more to do in towns than there was in the first game.
Really, the only downer thing about this game at all is the music.
Really, the only downer thing about this game at all is the music.
I'm still not convinced that wasn't Shulk. I don't know how or why he would be in this game, but it sure did seem to look like him, and it's very strange they showed him at the end of the trailer the way they did, as if it had some kind of meaning or purpose.
I do as well, but I don´t care since 90-95% of the time I will spend it looking at the back of my character killing mobs.
We've got Nopon in the game, and that's all the evidence I need to believe the two game stories will be linked together in some manner...
We need to remember that it's not like Sawano gets to decide what kind of music gets in the game. Clearly Takahashi signed off on the vocal track(s), and I liked the one used in the past trailer, so I'm not too concerned about the quality of those...
DangerMouse
Member
Doesn't bother me since I love a lot of his vocal tracks so hopefully they'll be good in the game (and this game will probably fit them very well).
Edit: Yeah Akai, that's a good point it's probably up to the director if he wants vocals or not.
ActStriker
Member
I'm keeping the site tab open for the rest of the day.
I feel like Takahashi is a Gundam fanboy.
He was a fan of Unicorn so he got Sawano, and then he approves the most Sawano of Sawano music. I think he's gonna let Sawano do his usual with the OST.
sublimit
Banned
Pellegri Testament
Member
Was there ever any doubt when both Gears and Saga are filled with mechs that look like they came straight out of Gundam? lol
iamaustrian
Member
yeah, they do look odd but it doesn't matter that much because it's like with sexual intercourse. most of the time you only see the back of the head(s)
protomouse
Member
I'll eat crow if this isn't out in the west come autumn 2015, considering it's already been pushed back a year and the fact that they've committed to spring 2015 in Japan. I expect Nintendo's localization teams to be on fire next year.
Zelda, on the other hand... We might not hear anything about it until next year's E3
.
prag16
Banned
Sounds like you've backpedaled quite a bit from your original claims. But as other have said moving the goalposts is one of your specialties. W/e. Carry on.
True. If we see High Entia though, I'll be more convinced.
prag16
Banned
I'll eat crow if this isn't out in the west come autumn 2015, considering it's already been pushed back a year and the fact that they've committed to spring 2015 in Japan. I expect Nintendo's localization teams to be on fire next year.
Zelda, on the other hand... We might not hear anything about it until next year's E3
If Zelda gets pushed out of 2015, what will take it's place as the "big" holiday 2015 game? Something yet to be announced? I suppose it's possible.
Pellegri Testament
Member
Starfox most likely even though it's not nearly as big as most of their IPs. Of the games announced though it's either going to be Starfox or Zelda that ends up getting pushed(while the other is holiday 2015). No chance Xenoblade will be the holiday release either, unless they really hope people will buy into a jrpg that isn't Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts and that it will do well.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Until we're ray-casting everything, everything is a hacked approximation of an effect of lighting.
As long as the end result looks good, it doesn't matter how we achieve it.
As long as the end result looks good, it doesn't matter how we achieve it.
Neon_Icarus
Member
But how can it look incredible when there's no dynamic lighting?
lostinblue
Banned
Note: I've written this in the beginning of 2013 and in another language. Translated it now and added something in, might have typos.
*responding to somebody who claimed Xenoblade character design was ass*
Xenoblade character models aren't poor, they're low poly - there's a difference. For the polygon budget they're incredibly detailed and everything one could ask for, they have detailed fingers, detailed mouths, facial features and facial plasticity going on (they don't seem like they took botox unlike plenty of games today)... Hell, they even have a pretty variable armor/equipment/clothing choices visible on-screen which also comes at a cost... Anyone noticed the gamut of expressions they can actually reproduce? Nothing short of amazing for something low-poly - not lifeless at all.
For low-poly modeling I'd say it's almost godlike in the sense that you really couldn't take more polygons and retain functionality and while we're saying this they're more identifiable (across them) than most games out there this gen; given the limitations they're not just a base model recycled with a change of hair, clothing or a color swap, à lá anime. Again, also applicable to most videogames:
Not just japanese ones at that, Gears of War is pretty disgraceful in that sense and it's a western endeavour; change textures, add displace maps, change skin color and hairdo, keep facial structure and proportion - rinse and repeat:
Xenoblade doesn't do that. In the begining I thought "heh, FFXII of the poor" in regards to modeling (because FFXII had an out of this world low poly modelling) in the sense that it was minimalist and yet, characters like Fiora weren't properly classic ideals of beauty, her nose bridge seen through the side was pretty much vertical:
Then I noticed Sharla, like a bulb:
And then Melia's, pulling a peter pan nose:
And only then I realised Fiora not having the top model nose I've come to expect was completely intentional and nothing to with lack of polygons. In fact, that gave her personality.
This is not different from the whole recent talk about "Kojima getting lazy" with some lady shenanigans. I can understand and get behind the whole, oh wtf, she's pretty much undressed. Sure. But some talked about her face. Her face is her best damn feature and the sole reason she's not generic:
There's more stereotyping (or dare I say sexism) by going with a face that has been done 100 times because hey, it's the ideal of beauty - along with predictable clothes, than having an interestingly different face and sporting a bikini. (and I'm not a MGS fan at all)
How many lead characters in games are differentiated these days? (not the funny, sidekick, quirky ones) That's the thing, they aren't. Differentiating was a lot stronger when it was needed due to limitations, hell it's the reason Mario has a moustache. Convoluted designs that can't really be shrunk down any more from their HD appearances mean they're just that, generic. That's the reason character design for Devil's Third sucks, there's so much shit going on in there that it gets convoluted and it's still forgettable, most characters defining traits should either come across perfectly yet feel different both on a low-res sprite or a low-poly model, and if it doesn't then characters designers are doing their shit wrong. In that sense Xenoblade is masterful in it's "nothing to take away from" form.
I learned to appreciate the character design there a lot more than I thought I would due to that. No doubt helped by the fact that despite them being low-poly I felt no compromises in the way they animated, one could just trade them for ultra high def ones and it's not like facial animation would have to be made from scratch, it's all there, felt like a downport due to that, because apart from polygons and visuals it was very current gen.
Monolith in reality has (if those didn't quit) some of the better modellers in the industry, as one can muster from Xenosaga 2 (detailed ears on a PS2 game) going by Xenosaga 3 (special mention for ~shionnnnnn), or by the facial detail in Disaster Day of Crisis, in particular the old dude with full body skinning. Sure, body was MGS2 low-poly "soldier" for most characters, but it was a Wii game.
Xenoblade was a case of expansive openworld sacrificing the resources available in the name of scale; the fact that the end game still manages to be so beautiful is a testament to their competence as very few developers could active that on the Wii. If any.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
And so I stand by that opinion.
Also doesn't hurt that even while not being 100% sold on the initial style chosen, at E3 I completely loved the character that came out at random from the character creation menu:
It's so... KAZUMA KANEKO:
Screw the haters, I love it.
*responding to somebody who claimed Xenoblade character design was ass*
Xenoblade character models aren't poor, they're low poly - there's a difference. For the polygon budget they're incredibly detailed and everything one could ask for, they have detailed fingers, detailed mouths, facial features and facial plasticity going on (they don't seem like they took botox unlike plenty of games today)... Hell, they even have a pretty variable armor/equipment/clothing choices visible on-screen which also comes at a cost... Anyone noticed the gamut of expressions they can actually reproduce? Nothing short of amazing for something low-poly - not lifeless at all.
For low-poly modeling I'd say it's almost godlike in the sense that you really couldn't take more polygons and retain functionality and while we're saying this they're more identifiable (across them) than most games out there this gen; given the limitations they're not just a base model recycled with a change of hair, clothing or a color swap, à lá anime. Again, also applicable to most videogames:
Not just japanese ones at that, Gears of War is pretty disgraceful in that sense and it's a western endeavour; change textures, add displace maps, change skin color and hairdo, keep facial structure and proportion - rinse and repeat:
Xenoblade doesn't do that. In the begining I thought "heh, FFXII of the poor" in regards to modeling (because FFXII had an out of this world low poly modelling) in the sense that it was minimalist and yet, characters like Fiora weren't properly classic ideals of beauty, her nose bridge seen through the side was pretty much vertical:
Then I noticed Sharla, like a bulb:
And then Melia's, pulling a peter pan nose:
And only then I realised Fiora not having the top model nose I've come to expect was completely intentional and nothing to with lack of polygons. In fact, that gave her personality.
This is not different from the whole recent talk about "Kojima getting lazy" with some lady shenanigans. I can understand and get behind the whole, oh wtf, she's pretty much undressed. Sure. But some talked about her face. Her face is her best damn feature and the sole reason she's not generic:
There's more stereotyping (or dare I say sexism) by going with a face that has been done 100 times because hey, it's the ideal of beauty - along with predictable clothes, than having an interestingly different face and sporting a bikini. (and I'm not a MGS fan at all)
How many lead characters in games are differentiated these days? (not the funny, sidekick, quirky ones) That's the thing, they aren't. Differentiating was a lot stronger when it was needed due to limitations, hell it's the reason Mario has a moustache. Convoluted designs that can't really be shrunk down any more from their HD appearances mean they're just that, generic. That's the reason character design for Devil's Third sucks, there's so much shit going on in there that it gets convoluted and it's still forgettable, most characters defining traits should either come across perfectly yet feel different both on a low-res sprite or a low-poly model, and if it doesn't then characters designers are doing their shit wrong. In that sense Xenoblade is masterful in it's "nothing to take away from" form.
I learned to appreciate the character design there a lot more than I thought I would due to that. No doubt helped by the fact that despite them being low-poly I felt no compromises in the way they animated, one could just trade them for ultra high def ones and it's not like facial animation would have to be made from scratch, it's all there, felt like a downport due to that, because apart from polygons and visuals it was very current gen.
Monolith in reality has (if those didn't quit) some of the better modellers in the industry, as one can muster from Xenosaga 2 (detailed ears on a PS2 game) going by Xenosaga 3 (special mention for ~shionnnnnn), or by the facial detail in Disaster Day of Crisis, in particular the old dude with full body skinning. Sure, body was MGS2 low-poly "soldier" for most characters, but it was a Wii game.
Xenoblade was a case of expansive openworld sacrificing the resources available in the name of scale; the fact that the end game still manages to be so beautiful is a testament to their competence as very few developers could active that on the Wii. If any.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
And so I stand by that opinion.
Also doesn't hurt that even while not being 100% sold on the initial style chosen, at E3 I completely loved the character that came out at random from the character creation menu:
It's so... KAZUMA KANEKO:
Screw the haters, I love it.
Pro from Dover
Member
EDIT: Golly gee willikers, that's a swell looking HD Town Monolith!
Ok, we're on an unfamiliar hostile alien planet and our little escape bubble of a city is down to 60% power and resources. Business as usual guys, keep doin' what you been doin'."
Kind of S.O.S Titanic here. Hope a feature in the game is some city management/expansion type stuff.
Pellegri Testament
Member
Highly likely when they've made it a point several times now to say that we're doing a lot of resource collecting either from monsters or the planet itself.
Aaronrules380
Member
It's pretty obvious we'll have a colony 6 type deal here, and that's without considering that Iwata said in the direct that we'd be gathering resources to help establish the city on the unknown world
But what if the stats for the Neo Bandana are bad?
Read the Iwata Asks on Xenoblade's soundtrack if you haven't already. Takahashi was super strict in regards to what he wanted and how it fit in the game. I don't think he gave Sawano a pass just because he's a fan of a series that Sawano worked on...
protomouse
Member
Great post. I'd be interested to learn in what ballpark the polycounts of XB Wii character models were.
add me too, I get strong vibes for another Sharla, except with white hair of course.
As long as Sawano makes songs like this, the ost should turn out fine.
https://m.soundcloud.com/zenko-aldnoah/09-al
https://m.soundcloud.com/zenko-aldnoah/09-al
Pro from Dover
Member
I haven't played Xenoblade so I looked up Colony 6... And that sounds dope! Maybe that explains why there are a bunch of aliens in New LA.
Several times? That's cool. I haven't been following XCX that close, so sorry I'm not as into it as you. But I'm into enough to get XCX, is that into it enough?
Yeah, I think I remember that. Tanaka is one of my favorite character designers, his art is gorgeous. Xenogears, XSaga 1, Key the Metal Idol, etc all have awesome and varied character designs. The 2D art for this is going to be great, I hope they do an art book.
The 3D faces could be better but they are a a hell of a lot better than Xenoblade's. However, I honestly I think the Xenosaga 1 3D faces look better than this game's, or they haven't improved or really changed since then at least.
James Scott
Banned
I'm guessing a September release date for this game in the west with Zelda in November. What do you guys think? I'd say october, but I'd imagine Nintendo will want to keep these 2 games somewhat apart
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Don't worry, is going to be Colony 6 from the original Xenoblade in a grand scale.
Is more annoying that they decide to have suburbs. Makes is hilarous and kind of different take of usual sci fi space colonization... but probably they should have bigger concerns specially if alien races are going to be join the colony...
Then again, real world colonists sometimes choiced commodity/impractical over realistic/practical.
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