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Lots of New Super Mario Maker Footage Round-Up

NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Amalthea said:
About Daisy; it doesn't seem like Nintendo generally liked to aknowledge the Mario Land series aside from Wario.
Click to expand...

At this point, Daisy wouldn't be representing the Mario Land series, but Mario spin offs in general. I guess
Mario piloting a Kart and Waluigi (he even holds a racket for his special animation)
are already taking that spot though, from their point of view.
I'm surprised by all the Mario Bros representation too. It seems so random. The crab and koopa-like enemies, really?.
 
Simbabbad

Simbabbad

Member
@NeonZ: it's Super Mario Bros. 30th anniversary, in the mind of most people it's sort of Mario's birthday, that's probably why there are so many alternative costumes for Mario.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Simbabbad said:
@NeonZ: it's Super Mario Bros. 30th anniversary, in the mind of most people it's sort of Mario's birthday, that's probably why there are so many alternative costumes for Mario.
Click to expand...

I'm specifically talking about the
"Mario Bros."(not Super) game there, not the Mario series in general. It's odd that the shellcreeper is playable while an actual Koopa isn't, for example. Also, a Mario Bros skin for Mario over say, a Paper Mario one.
 
Simbabbad

Simbabbad

Member
@NeonZ: I guess they wanted to cram in as old school pieces of history as possible in the view of the birthday. The 30th birthday is a good opportunity to look back on old Mario arcade games.
 
F

ffdgh

Member
Red Devil said:
Has this been posted yet, warning all the unlockable costumes, avoid if you want surprises:
http://i.imgur.com/G4Of8nP.jpg

It's amazing how the Wii Balance Board, Waluigi, a Shy-Guy, Foreman MOTHERFUCKING Spike are included but not Daisy, it's kind of hillarious in a way, I can see a lot super salty Daisy fans for this.
Click to expand...

This is hilarious asinine lol. They can put in waluigi(not complaining) but not daisy? Lol wut Nintendo.

Edit: the mario series is still missing a spot or 2 so there's that I guess.
 
B

branny

Member
Meh, it's really apparent how mechanically rich something like Super Mario World is when you look at what's still missing. Player-created hacks over the years have usually been way more ambitious with content than the actual games themselves, so I'm still hoping we eventually get access to everything in Super Mario Maker.

I think my most-wanted list right now consists of expanded play area, checkpoints, remaining power-ups, and interesting enemies/bosses like Charging Chucks and the angry sun. With more vertical space, there would be far more freedom for intricate levels, and people could go nuts with stuff like the triangle block if it ever gets added. Checkpoints would be nice to have for kaizo-style nonsense. Power-ups can completely change how you approach situations (Tanooki statue, P-Balloon, etc.), so let's get the rest of those in. Plus it never hurts to have more foes that require special consideration to overcome.
 
A

amnesiac

Member
branny said:
Meh, it's really apparent how mechanically rich something like Super Mario World is when you look at what's still missing. Player-created hacks over the years have usually been way more ambitious with content than the actual games themselves, so I'm still hoping we eventually get access to everything in Super Mario Maker.

I think my most-wanted list right now consists of expanded play area, checkpoints, remaining power-ups, and interesting enemies/bosses like Charging Chucks and the angry sun. With more vertical space, there would be far more freedom for intricate levels, and people could go nuts with stuff like the triangle block if it ever gets added. Checkpoints would be nice to have for kaizo-style nonsense. Power-ups can completely change how you approach situations (Tanooki statue, P-Balloon, etc.), so let's get the rest of those in. Plus it never hurts to have more foes that require special consideration to overcome.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've been playing through Mario World and Mario 3 in anticipation for this, and it's made me realize two things:

1. Good level design is actually really challenging. There's so many little nuances in those games that you never really think about until you actually view it from a designer's perspective.

2. Mario Maker is extremely limited.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure Mario Maker will be my GOAT, but playing through the original games shows how glaring the omissions in MM are. No slopes, no water in land levels, lots of backgrounds/powerups/enemies missing, etc. I assume that the interface wouldn't be as intuitive when you include things like slopes and water. I respect the idea that they're not trying to overwhelm people with a plethora of options, but I really hope that folks who want to create levels with different backgrounds/powerups/enemies will get the chance to do so sometime in the future.

Maybe Nintendo's philosophy with this game is to spark creativity with limited options, similar to what they are doing with the 9-day unlocks.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
amnesiac said:
Yeah, I've been playing through Mario World and Mario 3 in anticipation for this, and it's made me realize two things:

1. Good level design is actually really challenging. There's so many little nuances in those games that you never really think about until you actually view it from a designer's perspective.

2. Mario Maker is extremely limited.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure Mario Maker will be my GOAT, but playing through the original games shows how glaring the omissions in MM are. No slopes, no water in land levels, lots of backgrounds/powerups/enemies missing, etc. I assume that the interface wouldn't be as intuitive when you include things like slopes and water. I respect the idea that they're not trying to overwhelm people with a plethora of options, but I really hope that folks who want to create levels with different backgrounds/powerups/enemies will get the chance to do so sometime in the future.

Maybe Nintendo's philosophy with this game is to spark creativity with limited options, similar to what they are doing with the 9-day unlocks.
Click to expand...


I agree to an extent, but I'd say "extremely limited" is massively exaggerating.
 
M

MrBadger

Member
amnesiac said:
Yeah, I've been playing through Mario World and Mario 3 in anticipation for this, and it's made me realize two things:

1. Good level design is actually really challenging. There's so many little nuances in those games that you never really think about until you actually view it from a designer's perspective.

2. Mario Maker is extremely limited.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure Mario Maker will be my GOAT, but playing through the original games shows how glaring the omissions in MM are. No slopes, no water in land levels, lots of backgrounds/powerups/enemies missing, etc. I assume that the interface wouldn't be as intuitive when you include things like slopes and water. I respect the idea that they're not trying to overwhelm people with a plethora of options, but I really hope that folks who want to create levels with different backgrounds/powerups/enemies will get the chance to do so sometime in the future.

Maybe Nintendo's philosophy with this game is to spark creativity with limited options, similar to what they are doing with the 9-day unlocks.
Click to expand...

I disagree. You're seeing it as extremely limited because you're focusing on how you won't be able to recreate Super Mario World, while missing all the new things you can do that are completely new to this game, like how you can change the behaviour of things by adding other things to them, etc. I'd like for the missing things to be present, but extremely limited it ain't.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
I'm still quite disappointed that the game uses only the NSMBU physics engine and different mechanics across the tile sets. However, I can appreciate the simplicity of the decision from a game design perspective.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
Simbabbad said:
Nope, they have full running speed identical jump heights and distances. We still don't know about acceleration, air control and slipperiness.


Doesn't mean anything. New Super Luigi U runs with NSMBU's physics engine, and yet physics are different.
Click to expand...

No, we know those things, too. I already proved the air control thing in that thread.

Today, after work, I went to Best Buy to see if they had the Super Mario Maker demo and they did. I specifically tested each style for physics differences.

First I fired up a SMW level and tested air control, since that would be one of the most obvious and noticeable differences. I tried to replicate this:
FaroffCrazyIlladopsis.gif


Impossible. Mario controlled in the air exactly like he does in NSMBU.

Then I tested SMW's speed at turning around. In SMW when Mario runs one direction and then you hold the opposite direction he skids for 2 tiles and immediately turns around. In NSMBU he skids for 2 tiles and skids in place for like a half second before going in the opposite direction. Again this was identical to NSMBU.

So then I fired up SMB1 to test the air control and again that was identical to NSMBU. The high inertia from the original game was completely gone.

The last thing to test was SMB3. In SMB3, When Mario runs at top speed and turns around he slides for a good 3-4 tiles. When I tried this in SMM he skidded for 2 blocks and then started moving the other way after half a second just like in NSMBU.

So no. The physics definitely do not change between styles. They are 100% NSMBU.
 
B

braves01

Banned
RagnarokX said:
No, we know those things, too. I already proved the air control thing in that thread.

Today, after work, I went to Best Buy to see if they had the Super Mario Maker demo and they did. I specifically tested each style for physics differences.

First I fired up a SMW level and tested air control, since that would be one of the most obvious and noticeable differences. I tried to replicate this:

Impossible. Mario controlled in the air exactly like he does in NSMBU.

Then I tested SMW's speed at turning around. In SMW when Mario runs one direction and then you hold the opposite direction he skids for 2 tiles and immediately turns around. In NSMBU he skids for 2 tiles and skids in place for like a half second before going in the opposite direction. Again this was identical to NSMBU.

So then I fired up SMB1 to test the air control and again that was identical to NSMBU. The high inertia from the original game was completely gone.

The last thing to test was SMB3. In SMB3, When Mario runs at top speed and turns around he slides for a good 3-4 tiles. When I tried this in SMM he skidded for 2 blocks and then started moving the other way after half a second just like in NSMBU.

So no. The physics definitely do not change between styles. They are 100% NSMBU.
Click to expand...

That's a bummer for those wanting different physics but at least they chose the best physics.
 
K

King_Moc

Banned
braves01 said:
That's a bummer for those wanting different physics but at least they chose the best physics.
Click to expand...

It's a shame, but I guess it was needed to allow to you change styles on the fly. It'd probably be a bit jarring as well going from style to style every few minutes.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
braves01 said:
That's a bummer for those wanting different physics but at least they chose the best physics.
Click to expand...
Yeah. NSMBU physics are basically a hybrid of SMB3 and SMW. It has the jump height and distance of SMW and the air control of SMB3. Mario's traction is somewhere in between; not as slippery as SMB3 but not as quick as SMW. But his jumping is just as precise in each game. I think the additional animations in NSMBU throw people off.

King_Moc said:
It's a shame, but I guess it was needed to allow to you change styles on the fly. It'd probably be a bit jarring as well going from style to style every few minutes.
Click to expand...

I don't think it has anything to do with that. The different styles have different abilities, so there's no level designing reason why the physics needed to be the same. I think it's more because people have a hard enough time getting the hang of the idea that Mario has different moves in different styles. Imagine how hard it would be for players if they also had to adapt to different physics all the time.

Plus most people apparently can't tell the difference anyway and it would have been a lot of work for no real benefit. Especially who would want SMB1 style to play like SMB1? The only styles that feel really different are SMB1 since SMB1 was much harder to control and SMW because the air control in SMW was very very different from the rest of the series. The NSMBU air control was very noticeable when I tested the SMW style in the demo.
 
Simbabbad

Simbabbad

Member
RagnarokX said:
[actual hands-on testing]

So no. The physics definitely do not change between styles. They are 100% NSMBU.
Click to expand...
Now, this is convincing, especially since it's impossible to confuse SMB and NSMBU physics if you're really paying attention. Thank you for the feedback.

RagnarokX said:
I don't think it has anything to do with that. The different styles have different abilities, so there's no level designing reason why the physics needed to be the same. I think it's more because people have a hard enough time getting the hang of the idea that Mario has different moves in different styles. Imagine how hard it would be for players if they also had to adapt to different physics all the time.

Plus most people apparently can't tell the difference anyway and it would have been a lot of work for no real benefit. Especially who would want SMB1 style to play like SMB1? The only styles that feel really different are SMB1 since SMB1 was much harder to control and SMW because the air control in SMW was very very different from the rest of the series. The NSMBU air control was very noticeable when I tested the SMW style in the demo.
Click to expand...
Well, I like SMB physics. But I understand they didn't keep it. Super Mario Maker is a bit of a Wario Ware experience when you play levels, I guess, going from a style of level design/visuals to a completely different one in a very short time. It'd probably be annoying and lead to user error if physics varied.
 
A

amnesiac

Member
JoeM86 said:
I agree to an extent, but I'd say "extremely limited" is massively exaggerating.
Click to expand...

MrBadger said:
I disagree. You're seeing it as extremely limited because you're focusing on how you won't be able to recreate Super Mario World, while missing all the new things you can do that are completely new to this game, like how you can change the behaviour of things by adding other things to them, etc. I'd like for the missing things to be present, but extremely limited it ain't.
Click to expand...

Apologies, extremely limited was definitely an exaggeration.
 
L

Link Man

Banned
I've not seen this tested or mentioned, but do white blocks work the same way in Mario Maker as they do in Super Mario Bros. 3? That is, ducking for a few seconds lets you hide behind the background for a while? I'd imagine no, but since they're included...
 
B

braves01

Banned
Link Man said:
I've not seen this tested or mentioned, but do white blocks work the same way in Mario Maker as they do in Super Mario Bros. 3? That is, ducking for a few seconds lets you hide behind the background for a while? I'd imagine no, but since they're included...
Click to expand...

I don't think so. After all, I'm pretty sure the hiding behind the blocks was limited to a few specific instances in SMB3 anyways. I think they just function as a block you can stand on top of, but also move through underneath.
 
@

@MUWANdo

Banned
Link Man said:
I've not seen this tested or mentioned, but do white blocks work the same way in Mario Maker as they do in Super Mario Bros. 3? That is, ducking for a few seconds lets you hide behind the background for a while? I'd imagine no, but since they're included...
Click to expand...

It doesn't work, but the game does acknowledge people who try to do it.
 
C

Clefargle

Member
RagnarokX said:
No, we know those things, too. I already proved the air control thing in that thread.

Today, after work, I went to Best Buy to see if they had the Super Mario Maker demo and they did. I specifically tested each style for physics differences.

First I fired up a SMW level and tested air control, since that would be one of the most obvious and noticeable differences. I tried to replicate this:
FaroffCrazyIlladopsis.gif


Impossible. Mario controlled in the air exactly like he does in NSMBU.

Then I tested SMW's speed at turning around. In SMW when Mario runs one direction and then you hold the opposite direction he skids for 2 tiles and immediately turns around. In NSMBU he skids for 2 tiles and skids in place for like a half second before going in the opposite direction. Again this was identical to NSMBU.

So then I fired up SMB1 to test the air control and again that was identical to NSMBU. The high inertia from the original game was completely gone.

The last thing to test was SMB3. In SMB3, When Mario runs at top speed and turns around he slides for a good 3-4 tiles. When I tried this in SMM he skidded for 2 blocks and then started moving the other way after half a second just like in NSMBU.

So no. The physics definitely do not change between styles. They are 100% NSMBU.
Click to expand...

Welp, pretty decisive then. Pretty much confirms it. Thanks for following up, I was still wondering.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
Kensuke said:
My favorite creator made yet another cool level: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkG01dlelSQ

They are all very creative, but look hard as hell.
Click to expand...

i think this one is flawed. the player should always have a way forward. i understand wanting to make the item blocks part of the danger, but giving the player only one or two chances to proceed makes it more frustrating than challenging.

imagine instead that the invisible blocks on rails was the entire concept. you had to make one rail take you to the top of the screen where a pipe spits out mushrooms or flowers (with one of those one-way only walls). some unbreakable blocks keeps the mushroom trapped in its space and you have to jump over that and down through a one-way only wall back into the roulette area. the first of the three areas could have all of the invisible blocks have coins. the second one could have some goombas and bob-ombs, and the last one is where things can get really dangerous (even throwing in some danger where the mushroom/item up top would be located). good idea, just needs polish in execution. i like that people are trying to figure out 'boss fights' within the context of a mario game.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
Simbabbad said:
Honestly, I really don't like his levels. They're slow and frustrating with no freedom given to the player whatsoever.
Click to expand...

his metroid u level was really well thought out. the boss battles are good experiments but i think he needs feedback to improve them.
 
B

BowieZ

Banned
So what do you guys think is the best way to sort/share levels with each other? Could we post our own/other good levels with pre-agreed tags (e.g. maze, Metroidvania, kaizo, autoplay, musical, etc) and perhaps somebody could list them all in an online doc for us to easily search through? So if you feel like trying out some puzzle levels, Ctrl+F "puzzle".
 
Simbabbad

Simbabbad

Member
AniHawk said:
his metroid u level was really well thought out. the boss battles are good experiments but i think he needs feedback to improve them.
Click to expand...
I disagree about his "Metroid" (which isn't really Metroid like, actually) level: even knowing exactly what to do, he lost because of the time limit. Imagine how frustrating it must be for a new player. Also, it has no real exploration, it's very linear, and the possibility of losing your powerup isn't well taken into consideration.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Simbabbad said:
I disagree about his "Metroid" (which isn't really Metroid like, actually) level: even knowing exactly what to do, he lost because of the time limit. Imagine how frustrating it must be for a new player. Also, it has no real exploration, it's very linear, and the possibility of losing your powerup isn't well taken into consideration.
Click to expand...

It has exploration in the same sense of a Metroid game, a bunch of dead ends that just waste the player's time, but later you can go back there with a new ability and get through them. GameExplain (I think) managed to finish it on time by doing something the creator didn't expect (using the starman and taking one hit to go straight to the exit) and that was in the first attempt they go that far. He generally seemed to include ways to easily recover a power up after the player got through the obstacle that needed it.
 
M

MrBigBoy

Member
Will Nintendo allow recreations from levels from the original Mario 2D games? I would like to make them, but I don't know if I should upload them.
 
B

big_z

Member
RagnarokX said:
No, we know those things, too. I already proved the air control thing in that thread.

Today, after work, I went to Best Buy to see if they had the Super Mario Maker demo and they did. I specifically tested each style for physics differences.

First I fired up a SMW level and tested air control, since that would be one of the most obvious and noticeable differences. I tried to replicate this:
FaroffCrazyIlladopsis.gif


Impossible. Mario controlled in the air exactly like he does in NSMBU.

Then I tested SMW's speed at turning around. In SMW when Mario runs one direction and then you hold the opposite direction he skids for 2 tiles and immediately turns around. In NSMBU he skids for 2 tiles and skids in place for like a half second before going in the opposite direction. Again this was identical to NSMBU.

So then I fired up SMB1 to test the air control and again that was identical to NSMBU. The high inertia from the original game was completely gone.

The last thing to test was SMB3. In SMB3, When Mario runs at top speed and turns around he slides for a good 3-4 tiles. When I tried this in SMM he skidded for 2 blocks and then started moving the other way after half a second just like in NSMBU.

So no. The physics definitely do not change between styles. They are 100% NSMBU.
Click to expand...

that's disappointing. Mario has slowly started to control worse with every new iteration in both 3d and 2d. He used to be agile and snappy but in the nsmb series and 3d land/world he feels more like a lump. jumps that would have otherwise been easy in older games are now butthole clench inducing because it feels so stiff. I don't understand why they've done this to the controls.
 
M

maxcriden

Member
Kensuke said:
My favorite creator made yet another cool level: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkG01dlelSQ

They are all very creative, but look hard as hell.
Click to expand...

I understand the complaints about this level, but I really dig it, too. I really like the creator himself narrating his levels and earnestly progressing. I find his commentary hilarious and his voice is very similar to that of one of my favorite GAFers, daydream. He's very self-effacing and thoughtful about his level design, and his making exacting, deliberate choices in his design. Yes, the level has flaws, but it's an admitted work in progress and it offers a wholly different flavor from what you'd find in a typical Mario level. I also like that in the YT comments he's receptive to feedback and suggestions.

I also have to say it's another argument in favor of checkpoints. Yes, Simbabbad, haha, I know you think that means it just proves that this level is not a good one because the very fact that its difficulty requires checkpointing means to you that it's ill-suited to the game, but I think part of your reasoning for that was that it would disrupt flow in a 100 Mario Challenge run, but I don't think people will exclusively be playing that mode. I think a lot of levels will just be played one at a time, and for that reason I don't think checkpointing is a problem. With that said, in this particular level you have two moderately difficult segments followed by a very difficult one. I'd say rather than making the player repeat the first two segments several times, offer a checkpoint after the first two roulettes so that the player doesn't have to tediously re-do those every time, especially once they've gotten good at them, just to get to that third segment.

That is to say, in your posts you seem convinced that players will skip over pernicious levels, but I think a lot of players enjoy that challenge but will want a checkpoint ideally in order to balance the difficulty of the more trying levels.

(None of this is to call you out personally, I just know we have strongly differing views on this and I enjoy the debate.)

mStudios said:
Live streaming:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4__cRuXaZ8
Click to expand...

Oh, neat! It's the same designer, Pixelkabinett, that we were discussing above--and he's playing the Playtonic Bob-omb level from the Nintendo UK livestream. Rad.
 
C

Capra

Member
While playing random levels, take a shot:

- every time you take the wrong path in a "pick a path" segment
- whenever you die by invisible coin block
- as a consequence of skipping a level
- when you hit a 1-1 retread

I can't be held responsible for any death resulting from following these guidelines.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
maxcriden said:
I understand the complaints about this level, but I really dig it, too. I really like the creator himself narrating his levels and earnestly progressing. I find his commentary hilarious and his voice is very similar to that of one of my favorite GAFers, daydream. He's very self-effacing and thoughtful about his level design, and his making exacting, deliberate choices in his design. Yes, the level has flaws, but it's an admitted work in progress and it offers a wholly different flavor from what you'd find in a typical Mario level. I also like that in the YT comments he's receptive to feedback and suggestions.
Click to expand...

Some of the levels he made were conceptually flawed but the dude is not an expert level designer nor did he ever claim to be. Also the commentary in the video really does explain that he is aware of some of the problems like not being able to get the fire flower to fall down. I thought it was a good level as well.

Level could have been made easier with 2 additions. One is warp pipes that take you to the sub world then back to the main world in the cages so if you messed up you would not have to kill yourself and everything would reset. That would solve the big issue of havingto kill yourself.

If he used the Super Mario Bros 3 theme he could have made fire flowers super leafs so they gently fall to the ground solving that issue. He would have to design aspects of the make yourself small mechanic there but they wouldnt be difficult changes.

Most of his levels suffere from the lack of checkpoints in the game. I think the actual challenge and uniqueness of the levels will make people still wanna play through them though.
 
R

RellyRell28

Banned
Just to comfirm. You can advance the Wii U clock forward a day all the way till it gets to the 9 day mark and switch back to your current day to unlock everything and there's no penalty for going online right?
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
big_z said:
that's disappointing. Mario has slowly started to control worse with every new iteration in both 3d and 2d. He used to be agile and snappy but in the nsmb series and 3d land/world he feels more like a lump. jumps that would have otherwise been easy in older games are now butthole clench inducing because it feels so stiff. I don't understand why they've done this to the controls.
Click to expand...

Could not disagree more, I'm thrilled they're using NSMBU physics. Mario 3 feels great, but I literally just went back and played some SMW last night and that game has always felt loose to control for me
 
E

Esque7

Member
I'm a bit disappointed it's only NSMBU physics as well but I can't say the physics are necessarily bad. I just really prefer SMW and I'm a bit burnt out on the New series.
 
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