Seriously? There is essentially zero chance of VR decreasing sexual assault rates even if it reaches a level of being perfect. The psychology behind it is unfortunately such that it wouldn't solve anything, especially longer-term.
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Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 on PSVR
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Seriously? There is essentially zero chance of VR decreasing sexual assault rates even if it reaches a level of being perfect. The psychology behind it is unfortunately such that it wouldn't solve anything, especially longer-term.
Yes but Christianity tells us that sex is worse than death, so we're fine with the one and get irate over the other.
sono
Gold Member
but it a bunch of 1 and 0. right ?
You misunderstood my post. I'm not making any statement on anything whatsoever, i made a comment of speculation based on what i think the discussion in the industry will be in the future, and why people on either side may find controversy.
I honestly have no personal opinions the matter whatsoever in either direction, i am generally not interested in VR either way.
Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure some particularly extreme adult cartoons/hentai have specifically had an opening page where it's the various participants all saying "we are pretending to do this crazy stuff and consent to everything".
King Gilga
Member
Not to mention you can't actually feel anything in vr, if anything it'll increase assault rates since it'll give people bigger blue balls. If anything VR is just the world's biggest tease.
If it can't decrease the rates then it can't increase it either. In that case the only reason to discourage it in VR is just misguided attempt to control what other people do in private.
You are under estimating what is being worked on.
YianGaruga
Banned
yeah. just like any kind of porn
also you have zero imagination if you think people won't find ways to "feel" VR sex
Even if you had some perfect sensation suit solution or whatever, rapists are generally after something more than just getting their rocks off, and it's not the kind of thing VR has a good answer to.
CountAntonius
Member
Without a doubt PSVR's Killer Fapp.
I don't disagree necessarily, but i also think people who go "oh ok carry on" simply don't think about porn too hard, or avoid doing so to not open a whole can of worm.
So basically, not sure if there's that much overlap, between people who dislike this and people who would dislike many types of pornography.
I never insinuated it would increase it, or even that it should be banned. Hell I own the big DOAX3 set and will probably be getting PSVR day one.
That said, it probably wouldn't hurt to have a little warning or something at the beginning. Hell, at least a few countries I'm pretty sure would require it. Hell, if you go to a maid cafe in Japan (i.e. you pay strip club money for fully clothed women to wait on you like you're a child they're babysitting) they have a list of rules which is basically "this isn't real, don't creep out and ask the girls here out on dates, give her gifts expecting reciprocation, stalk her etc."
Or just have it so if you poke Katsumi in a bad way she yells out "no means NO, motherfucker!" and the game switches to DOA5 where she infinite combos you, whatever.
How so? Once you could simulate the real world, why wouldn't it offer the same stimulations?
Yes, let's idolize strong moral figures that would never make unwanted advances on females in fictional settings.
Well to use one example, Bill Cosby is quite likely a rapist, and was famous enough that he probably had to make an extra effort to NOT end up in a foursome with different women every night of his life. If the allegations are true, he wasn't taking advantage of women because he had trouble getting laid, he was taking advantage of women because THAT is what he wanted. Likewise, Elliott Rodger never had sex, and would unquestionably not have been satisfied by a VR experience either.
To put it another way, anyone can, in theory, hire a prostitute to live out just about whatever fantasy they want, and yet sexual assault is still very much a thing. What is VR, even if it's "perfect", going to solve that a prostitute currently wouldn't?
michaelius
Banned
If you look at most vocal protesters they are usually left wingers and atheist.
Sangetsu-II
Member
You don't have to pay for it everytime, just a one time purchase, heck even the F2P version of DOAX3 will get the VR Patch
So yeah, you don't have to pay for it like a prostitute to do it that's the difference.
Also, most prostitutes aren't anime pretty
Rapists operate for a lot of different reasons but frugality isn't generally a main one.
Suffice it to say that rape and sex have waaaaay less overlap than a lot of people think.
Sangetsu-II
Member
Again why are you putting rape into the mix if this is for gamers. If you say rape and sex have waaay less overlap why comment on a sensual game genre?
This isn't a rape game.
It was relative to an earlier conversation. Anyway rape/assault definitions vary, as does by extension what you see here (e.g. quite a few anime would be textbook illegal here if the lawmakers bothered to investigate it). But no use harping on this topic anymore, I already own DOAX3, will probably get PSVR, am worse than the Wolfenstein Episode 3 final boss despite not even having a mech suit etc.
YianGaruga
Banned
Canada. Some people have gotten in trouble but it's pretty sporadically enforced.
Also "illegal" might be a strong word, but the kind of thing that border control ordinarily wouldn't let through (e.g. similar legal standing to R18 video games in Australia before R18 was a thing). I had a few DVD's confiscated when I moved back to Canada from Japan, which was especially interesting because it was stuff I had originally purchased IN CANADA and specifically had Canadian ratings board ratings (meaning they were explicitly approved). At least the form I got in exchange was good for a laugh, it got specific to a pretty absurd degree.
Some stuff can also vary depending on exact timing. Things which were previously OK can suddenly no longer be OK (e.g. in the UK they now have a blanket ban on facesitting).
Most atheists don't actually lose their morals when they lose their gods.
djplaeskool
Member
Hahaha
DOAX3: Harbinger of the Great Moral Dilemma
DOAX3: Harbinger of the Great Moral Dilemma
I actually think they addressed it perfectly by only officially releasing it in Asian territories.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
If you can't masturbate you're not trying hard enough. Or are a T-Rex.
ScherzoPrime
Member
I tend to (between stuff like this and the Cidney kerfluffle) take an extremely libertarian position on the issue of sexualized media (which has absolutely nothing to do with being a sexual deviant personally, nope, not at all...); if no one is actually being hurt, then it's okay to enjoy, provided it's properly contextualized as a fetish thing separate from the 'real' world.
But obviously that's the rub and what a lot of people take potential issue with; that media that has sexual violence normalizes/enables anti-social/misogynistic attitudes in men. And while I don't believe exposure to media has that sort of deterministic effect, it's not something I can legitimately shout down. So in a way I think it's good to, at the very least, feel at least a pinch of disquiet at enjoying something like this. But I do feel, fundamentally, that it should be allowed to exist.
But obviously that's the rub and what a lot of people take potential issue with; that media that has sexual violence normalizes/enables anti-social/misogynistic attitudes in men. And while I don't believe exposure to media has that sort of deterministic effect, it's not something I can legitimately shout down. So in a way I think it's good to, at the very least, feel at least a pinch of disquiet at enjoying something like this. But I do feel, fundamentally, that it should be allowed to exist.
You'd be hard-pressed on finding people who agree eye-to-eye on what is and isn't acceptable. Like, I think Master Shake and Carl's insane levels of sexism in Aqua Teen Hunger Force works because both of those characters are eternal losers who are in exactly the situation they deserve. I am less OK with Quagmire from Family Guy and him raping someone (or at least claiming he has) every few episodes while still having a productive life and friends who haven't completely kicked him from their lives. The fact that the first show was at wonky hours on a less-popular channel while the latter is prime time Sunday evening is also a factor in this. But I would totally expect some people to find that weird, including thinking I shouldn't find EITHER depiction is OK, and, well, that's a fine stance to take too.
ScherzoPrime
Member
Yeah I think in a sort of analogous way the issue here is the blending of fetishistic elements with more 'mainstream' elements. If DOAX dropped any pretense of being anything but an eroge/H-game, I think it'd be less problematic.
I mean, people would still find it disgusting, which is fine.
YianGaruga
Banned
it's not pretending to be anything else
it's pretty much 100% gravure in video game form
That would mean it's a porn game, which this isn't. Japanese console games can't even show nipples, let alone actual sex, because of their ratings board. They censor western games that have nudity when they get localized over there.
This is part of it, but the general anime trope in videogames where you "interact" with the girls and she says "no" and "stop" while blushing and guarding herself is also problem territory. And also out-of-character since in DOA5 they can absolutely wreck huge burly men who are like 7 feet tall and weigh 500 pounds.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
This is fuckin' weird, dude.
Well now you're getting into interesting territory where there's the whole question of how you define a porn game. Is the Leisure Suit Larry series? Is Softporn (it has porn right in the name! Never mind that it's text-only)? If nipples are what it takes, what about God of War? And different ratings boards will have different standards: somewhat notoriously, one of the Atelier games, despite their usually getting PG ratings, got an 18+ rating in Australia, for "high-impact sexual violence" because there's an (optional I think) scene where there's a very strong implication that your character gets drugged and date raped and nothing really comes of it.
Japan is also a bit of an odd duck because as long as the naughty bits are censored you can do pretty damn close to anything in porn over there, that is pretty much flat-out "you are getting in so much trouble" levels of illegal in the rest of the developed world. So the standard cuts both ways; Japan is too extreme for the West in some ways, and the West is too extreme for Japan in other, different ways.
When people mention eroge, it's usually used to refer to a Visual Novel that has sex scenes, or one of those 3D porn games that are sex sims. God of War wouldn't be an eroge just because it has brief nudity, it's not the focus of it. DoAX 3 doesn't feature nudity or sex, so it doesn't meet any definition of the word. It's just gravure/cheesecake.
ScherzoPrime
Member
I mean, completely ditching the whole beach sports aspect and make it completely just a dating sim and virtual love doll thing.
I meant in the sense that there's any meaningful gameplay element beyond 'interacting' with the girls; perhaps 'ecchi' is a more correct term than eroge or H-Game.
Well again it's totally a fetish thing; it's clear that they want the player to indulge in a masculine power fantasy, which obviously a lot of people find extremely problematic. As someone who indulges mean-spirited fantasies, I think the inherent 'wrongness' of the act needs to be admitted upfront, and I can definitely see how if not contextualized that way things like that can serve to enable a sense of normalcy in say sexual predators. I just don't know how incumbent on the creators it is to anticipate the actions of the consumers of their product.
Those also exist.
We're sort-of entering new media territory, so standards haven't been defined for the most part of how interactivity plays into things. To me gravure/cheesecake has a distinct "look but don't touch" aspect to it, suddenly adding in the ability to flip her skirt up or grope at her breasts while she tells me to stop definitely feels like something completely different.
I don't know what the answer is, and am not necessarily looking for one, but the interactive nature of things definitely sets a different standard.