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Disney releases Maui costume that lets kids pretend to be Polynesian

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I'd say the costume's fine, but becomes problematic if a wrong-coloured child wears it. Its existence will draw attention to racially insensitive parents, but I don't see the harm in a racially-specific costume.

I think it's good that Disney is releasing ethnically diverse costumes. Maybe there should be an ethnicity warning on the packaging to help parents avoid embarrassment.
Are you fucking kidding me? Maybe we can get the stores to segregate black/Hispanic/white/Asian/etc. items to make sure no one buys anything for which they're wrong colored.

This social justice/cultural appropriation oversensitivity shit has done a full 180 into racism.
 

pHand

Member
You seem to be yelling at an outlier. Most of the criticism seems to be around the factual basis of the charges and what if any solutions actually exist then?

My post was in response to posts like these, which show up in every "outrage" thread without fail:

But most of the internet is white people getting offended for other ethnicities over things that ethnicity couldn't care less about.

"This is culturally insensitive and offensive" said the White person who never bothered asking the opinion of a Polynesian.

It's like some white people in the internet tell other white people what is racist.

Can't wait for all the college-age white americans being offended on behalf of actual Polynesians

Any actual polynesians who are offended? Or is this just another SJW thang

Framing the argument as "white people being offended on behalf of minorities," is ridiculously reductive and adds nothing to the conversation, especially when it only takes a quick Google search to see that some Polynesians do find offense while others don't (shocking, I know). The posters above accuse others of not asking or caring what actual Polynesians think, but then those very posters don't actually bother to research it themselves because they don't actually care. They just want to push their agenda, just like the "outrage culture" people that they so deride.

A nuanced discussion can be had, but falling into the trap of being outraged over outrage culture can be just as bad as the initial outrage. I get that "white people telling minorities what they should be offended by" can be annoying, but how is "white people telling minorities what they shouldn't be offended by" any better?
 

J2 Cool

Member
Just out of interest are you sure you'd really give a shit about that, or is that your adult brain projecting into the past to say the "authenticity" you now cherish would be there when you had your kid brain?

Genuinely curious, as I honestly haven't heard or read of any kids, as in it coming from the kids mouth, say they want to hit the sunbeds/beach to "prepare" for Halloween....

Yes I know kids can display attention to detail, but largely speaking most wouldn't be seeking out complex "solutions" (getting a tan?) to a situation where putting on a costume is really the make believe they seek.

As a kid, if i would dress as Bret Hart, I would wet my hair. Frankenstein I would go for the flat top, the coloring, the bolts, the stitches. I would be upset if some part was missing. May be projecting, but I did like being in character as much as possible. There was a summer where my older brother started tanning, and I was trying just to follow suit since I thought he was cool
 

Piers

Member
There isn't really any way to merchandise them without some problems. They could do colour variations of the suit but then that'd just result in backlash of race favortism, presumably.
 

weekev

Banned
There isn't really any way to merchandise them without some problems. They could do colour variations of the suit but then that'd just result in backlash of race favortism, presumably.

Yep, its pretty sad that having a Polynesian lead has led to this dilemma.

- Don't have a costume - outrage, do you not believe that a Polynesian costume will sell as much as the white Princesses? Racism.
- Have a costume - outrage that you made a Polynesian stereotype.

To those saying the costume could be clear, how would that be practical?
 
Read this article and you might have less of a problem with "outrage culture".
But how does this explain away the very people in this (and many other) thread(s) throwing around words like fucking gross and disgusting to describe this nontroversy? Outrage culture may not be as widespread as the media makes it out to be, but we see plenty of it in personal reactions on this site, twitter, tumblr and the like.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Are you fucking kidding me? Maybe we can get the stores to segregate black/Hispanic/white/Asian/etc. items to make sure no one buys anything for which they're wrong colored.

This social justice/cultural appropriation oversensitivity shit has done a full 180 into racism.

I am not sure its racism as much as just being poorly thought out.

Like the emotional response runs over a person's body and out comes the first idea/thought that "feels" right in that moment. With no regard or care for its accuracy or consequence.

Personally, sensitivity doesn't even bother me, the opposite in fact. It's a good trait to have culturally. It's just when it gets wielded mindlessly, done recklessly, assumed it's expression is infallible, and then is used to hammer anyone that doesn't see it "their" way into the ground. Once that happens all hope for a meaningful conversation is likely lost for the immediate future.
 
My post was in response to posts like these, which show up in every "outrage" thread without fail:











Framing the argument as "white people being offended on behalf of minorities," is ridiculously reductive and adds nothing to the conversation, especially when it only takes a quick Google search to see that some Polynesians do find offense while others don't (shocking, I know). The posters above accuse others of not asking or caring what actual Polynesians think, but then those very posters don't actually bother to research it themselves because they don't actually care. They just want to push their agenda, just like the "outrage culture" people that they so deride.

A nuanced discussion can be had, but falling into the trap of being outraged over outrage culture can be just as bad as the initial outrage. I get that "white people telling minorities what they should be offended by" can be annoying, but how is "white people telling minorities what they shouldn't be offended by" any better?

I'm not sure how you can read that minorities aren't allowed to be offended from those posts.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
My post was in response to posts like these, which show up in every "outrage" thread without fail:











Framing the argument as "white people being offended on behalf of minorities," is ridiculously reductive and adds nothing to the conversation, especially when it only takes a quick Google search to see that some Polynesians do find offense while others don't (shocking, I know). The posters above accuse others of not asking or caring what actual Polynesians think, but then those very posters don't actually bother to research it themselves because they don't actually care. They just want to push their agenda, just like the "outrage culture" people that they so deride.

A nuanced discussion can be had, but falling into the trap of being outraged over outrage culture can be just as bad as the initial outrage. I get that "white people telling minorities what they should be offended by" can be annoying, but how is "white people telling minorities what they shouldn't be offended by" any better?

It seems what you are calling out is white people telling other white people to stop being offended on the part of other minorities without first establishing just cause? Or just being against general hot takes.

Maybe that "adds nothing to the conversation" but that seems sort of dependent on a case by case basis no? As does all meta-commentary including yours right now?

It's not really up to me to decide what meta-commentary is beyond the pale though, i'll leave that to the mods.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
"wrong-coloured child" is a helluva phrase
This whole costume thing...

Jesse-Pinkman-Breaking-Bad-Drinking-Water.gif
 
shocking that there are multiple posts in this thread calling this "gross". it's debatable whether or not there's something wrong with it at all, but of course people have to go to the absolute extreme to let people know how FIRED UP they are at this outrage.
 
shocking that there are multiple posts in this thread calling this "gross". it's debatable whether or not there's something wrong with it at all, but of course people have to go to the absolute extreme to let people know how FIRED UP they are at this outrage.

You seem more "fired up" than for example my one word post was.

You shouldn't read high emotions into one word.

Gross is such a relatively milquetoast statement as far as gut reactions go frankly.
 
I went to a Halloween store today and this similar example went through my head. Is it appropriation if it is a beloved media character?
 

pHand

Member
Yep, its pretty sad that having a Polynesian lead has led to this dilemma.

- Don't have a costume - outrage, do you not believe that a Polynesian costume will sell as much as the white Princesses? Racism.

People keep making this argument, but it doesn't hold water. Moana is the main character, and there's a Moana costume that no one seems to be making a fuss about. Lilo & Stitch came out and no one cared that there was no David costume. I don't think the Maui costume was meant to be offensive, but I highly doubt Disney would've faced criticism if they didn't release it. After all, The Jungle Book was the third-biggest movie this year domestically. Show me the outrage or cries of racism over there being no Mowgli costume for sale.

I'm not sure how you can read that minorities aren't allowed to be offended from those posts.

By all means, please tell me the point of saying, "It's like some white people in the internet tell other white people what is racist," and what it has to do with Polynesians saying the costume is insensitive. By making it about white people, you're completely dismissing the concerns that some actual Polynesians do have. You can disagree with those concerns (I do, to an extent), but there are some people here who seem to think that it's only an issue because of "white people," which is just as presumptuous as thinking all Polynesians should be offended.

It seems what you are calling out is white people telling other white people to stop being offended on the part of other minorities without first establishing just cause? Or just being against general hot takes.

Again, the problem is people constantly using "white people being offended on the behalf of minorities" as an excuse to dismiss the issue outright. Those posts show more concern over what other "white people" think than they do about what Polynesians think.

To turn around someone else's saying, "'This isn't culturally insensitive and offensive,' said the White person who never bothered asking the opinion of a Polynesian."
 

Jonm1010

Banned
People keep making this argument, but it doesn't hold water. Moana is the main character, and there's a Moana costume that no one seems to be making a fuss about. Lilo & Stitch came out and no one cared that there was no David costume. I don't think the Maui costume was meant to be offensive, but I highly doubt Disney would've faced criticism if they didn't release it. After all, The Jungle Book was the third-biggest movie this year domestically. Show me the outrage or cries of racism over there being no Mowgli costume for sale.



By all means, please tell me the point of saying, "It's like some white people in the internet tell other white people what is racist," and what it has to do with Polynesians saying the costume is insensitive. By making it about white people, you're completely dismissing the concerns that some actual Polynesians do have. You can disagree with those concerns (I do, to an extent), but there are some people here who seem to think that it's only an issue because of "white people," which is just as presumptuous as thinking all Polynesians should be offended.



Again, the problem is people constantly using "white people being offended on the behalf of minorities" as an excuse to dismiss the issue outright. Those posts show more concern over what other "white people" think than they do about what Polynesians think.

To turn around someone else's saying, "'This isn't culturally insensitive and offensive,' said the White person who never bothered asking the opinion of a Polynesian."

I'm not here to offer up commentary or judgement on every cherry picked quote you pull from the sea of hot takes and meta commentary that is littering this thread. Especially when it seems you are more concerned with just ending the hot takes and meta commentary you don't like while giving a pass to all else.

Only a couple of those quotes could be inferred to be stemming directly from what you are saying. The rest are a reach at best. That is of course by only looking at their quotes in isolation. What does context say?

But as I said before, I am not a mod, I will leave deciding what hot takes and meta commentary are beyond the pale to them so this isn't even a path I want to go down.

As to your solution, just not selling it. Is that really the path you want? Any problematic characters should be withheld from being manufactured into things like costumes? And what exactly makes this problematic to the point it needs to be shelved? The skin tone? The cultural appropriation? The existence of criticism that may or may not be reflective of the larger population? All of the above?
 

Audioboxer

Member
As a kid, if i would dress as Bret Hart, I would wet my hair. Frankenstein I would go for the flat top, the coloring, the bolts, the stitches. I would be upset if some part was missing. May be projecting, but I did like being in character as much as possible. There was a summer where my older brother started tanning, and I was trying just to follow suit since I thought he was cool

Fair enough, you were a child ahead of your time :p

Although to be honest I think you might have hit part of it on the head with that last sentence. Children with older brothers/sisters often try to emulate them as they look up to them. Even if they don't get quite grasp why they are copying what they are.
 

TBiddy

Member
Are you fucking kidding me? Maybe we can get the stores to segregate black/Hispanic/white/Asian/etc. items to make sure no one buys anything for which they're wrong colored.

This social justice/cultural appropriation oversensitivity shit has done a full 180 into racism.

I think Aske was ironic. The whole "wrong-coloured child" thing gave it away.
 
By all means, please tell me the point of saying, "It's like some white people in the internet tell other white people what is racist," and what it has to do with Polynesians saying the costume is insensitive. By making it about white people, you're completely dismissing the concerns that some actual Polynesians do have. You can disagree with those concerns (I do, to an extent), but there are some people here who seem to think that it's only an issue because of "white people," which is just as presumptuous as thinking all Polynesians should be offended."

No, I don't.
Though the opinions of some Polynesian people would be nice here.

But what it's the deal with some people here trying to color other people as racist?
 

TDLink

Member
I don't see the problem with this or understand the people expressing outrage over it.

The bodysuit is a costume for the character, who is Polynesian. So nothing wrong there. The only bad thing this can potentially lead to is bad parents face-painting their children to match the suit. But the suit itself is not inherently problematic.
 

Not

Banned
There's an Aquaman costume as well, covered in cultural appropriating tattoos. Enrage Internets, enrage!

Sheesh. We are really going to have to figure out a solution for the whole "flesh tone" costume thing in the coming years. Maybe they can all be yellow like the Simpsons and LEGO people.
 
Children want to have fun and dress up like a cool character from this Disney movie? Racist and disgusting. How dare Disney.

I like that you actively mock the people who take a stand against this, all the while being someone who made a post calling someone mentally ill for dressing up like women:

This story seems like a mental problem being half laughed at, half applauded.

Which suggests to me that your perspective on what is and is not offensive may be somewhat invaluable
 

dream

Member
Bumping a post that's been dormant for 6 days so that you can respond to a 7 day old post by using a 4 month old post to shame someone, Snitch? Really?
 

eso76

Member
Would it be better if they produced different skin color versions of that costume ?
Should they make it lighter ?
Should they make it transparent ?
They should have dropped the idea to have a Polynesian character in their movie altogether?

Please.
 
Bumping a post that's been dormant for 6 days so that you can respond to a 7 day old post by using a 4 month old post to shame someone, Snitch? Really?

At what point does it cease to be shaming and become providing context to someone talking about "offense culture these days"?

For clarity, I found the post while I was looking up something else, checked to get context on their views, and felt obligated to bring up the fact that a poster complaining about offense culture is also someone who has posted unquestionably bigoted and ignorant beliefs.
 
There's an Aquaman costume as well, covered in cultural appropriating tattoos. Enrage Internets, enrage!

Aquaman's tattoos are a reference to an orange scalemail shirt.

Not sure is serious? I'll take a look to see if there's some broader themes. I know Momoa himself is Polynesian, so it'd be interesting to see that reflected in his character.

EDIT: Looking it up, you can read more into it, but the only tattoos Momoa has that are related directly to his heritage are covered up in the Aquaman costume. Possibly to avoid the same issue, but who knows. Instead, those tattoos are covered by a bracer with a similar motif.

Momoa's tattoos:

And on Aquaman (and by extension the costume):

If you're muck-raking, the closest real example would be The Rock and associated Halloween costumes. I assume people don't say anything because he's the Rock.
 
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