That's possible but it also could be that Kasdan was more 'hands-on' with this film and so wanted a stricter adherence to the script than he might have otherwise been. That along with Kennedy personally hating L&M might have been enough.
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'Star Wars': Han Solo Film Loses Directors (Lord & Miller)
- Thread starter zsynqx
- Start date
That's possible but it also could be that Kasdan was more 'hands-on' with this film and so wanted a stricter adherence to the script than he might have otherwise been. That along with Kennedy personally hating L&M might have been enough.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
For fuck's sake, this!
This film has less than two months left in it's shoot, what the fuck happened? They didn't agree completely with Kennedy and Kasdan...after four months? This tells me there must've been a lot of changes in dialogue on set and their style of filming didn't fit. I bet she realized this after watching a ton of dailies come together.
It's funny how we went from "man, this shake-up is shocking - how will this work-out" to "RIAN SITS ON A THRONE OF LIES."
Look, guys, I believe he's going to deliver us one of the more intuitive and refreshing mainline SW entries to date for better or worse, but sometimes I feel like some people here are expecting Jodorowsky's Dune or some shit.
Look, guys, I believe he's going to deliver us one of the more intuitive and refreshing mainline SW entries to date for better or worse, but sometimes I feel like some people here are expecting Jodorowsky's Dune or some shit.
Frozenprince
Banned
I just don't get why you would hire two guys who's entire style is based around improv then get pissed when the movie has a lot of improv in it.
It's like ordering a large pepperoni, waiting for them to make it, sign for it, deliver it, eat half of it then throw a tantrum and demand your money back because you really wanted ham instead.
And "Han Solo isn't a comedic personality" um, did y'all SEE Episode VII, cause y'all had his ass cracking jokes, not sarcastic quips, fucking jokes, the whole god damn movie.
It's like ordering a large pepperoni, waiting for them to make it, sign for it, deliver it, eat half of it then throw a tantrum and demand your money back because you really wanted ham instead.
And "Han Solo isn't a comedic personality" um, did y'all SEE Episode VII, cause y'all had his ass cracking jokes, not sarcastic quips, fucking jokes, the whole god damn movie.
Jesus Carbomb
From Water into Guinness
Or perhaps they were expecting Tuscan brick oven pizza but all they got was Papa Johns.
Speedydonut
Member
Can they bring back Clone High now?
Need that cliffhanger answered.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
And you can bet Kasdan gave him some amazing lines along with great comedic beats.
Saaaaay whaaaaaat!
Jest Chillin
Member
There's a massively huge middle ground that you're missing. Kennedy backing Kasdan and firing Lord and Miller due to their improv heavy style is NOT the same thing as Kennedy not wanting ANY creativity at all.
The defining factor judging by those articles is the process involved. You can be creative and take risks in framing, pacing, and the material itself while still filming in a standard classic way. Improv filming, however, involves a ton of takes even when a perfectly good one is in the can, and inherently branches away from script. Sometimes wildly. Woody Allen and Will Ferrell movies are both comedies but the process by which they're created are incredibly different.
Most likely they didn't realize Lord and Miller's process was so improv heavy. They've only directed 4 films. Two are animated and the other two are 21 Jump Street films with leads known to lean into improv comedy. I think there's a decent chance that Kennedy and Kasdan thought Lord and Miller would Direct in a more traditional format.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
https://twitter.com/mjsamps/status/877345523325313024
I hope it was worth it to Kathleen, cause that last tweet is gonna haunt this movie if it's anything less than spectacular.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I really don't think it's even so much the process that threw them. It really does sound like the principals here just didn't like each other.
As in shit got contentious and personal beyond "what's best for the movie."
You know how you think you can work with a guy, and you're getting along okay at first, and then they start doing things you don't like, and then there's that weird passive aggressive period that eventually festers and becomes just pure ill will and angry annoyance at like, fucking EVERYTHING?
I think that probably came into play here, from the sound of it. Sure, the process was probably the instigating element. But I really would not be surprised if just the way they actually interacted with each other didn't exacerbate the situation to the point where they felt like "fuck this, we'd rather get fired off this project."
"Not Star Wars-y enough" could end up right there with "I might've gone too far in a few places" or "It's gonna be great" if the film ends up being trash.
Now the question is, can KK take the heat like George did? I doubt it.
L&M are in a win/win position though, if it's good it will be because of them, if it's bad it's going to be despite them. They have a lot of goodwill
thehypocrite
Member
The Disney/Lucasfilm machine will continue to eat Trevorrows and shit more garbage films right into our eyeballs.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Here I was hoping they'd follow up entertaining (Ep7) and exciting (Rogue One) with funny. Guess we'll make do with mildly funny. 21&22 are under appreciated works of comedic genius. Really wish them the best of luck.
thehypocrite
Member
Because it wasn't a good movie.
Except it was.
Jest Chillin
Member
We'll have to wait until the Kennedy/Kasdan side surrogates... ehem... I mean other sources talk about Lord and Miller's words and actions but so far, with the reports that Lord and Miller thought they'd "be able to work through it" and being "surprised" at being fired, the animosity may have only gone one direction.
I can imagine Lord and Miller not actually thinking that Kennedy would fire them, especially once they got a few months into Principal. Kind of thinking that whatever pushback they were getting was more bark than bite thus just letting it go in one ear and out the other. I mean they've been nominated and won a bunch of industry awards and looking at their work history I don't imagine they've ever had that kind of threat be a real thing.
Perhaps they should've known better but, again, Edwards wasn't canned during Principal and even Trank wasn't. This kind of thing just doesn't normally happen. So maybe they thought, "Once we get to Post, they'll understand and this will all just blow over."
brandonh83
Banned
I feel like comments/feelings like this are better suited toward ACTUAL bad things. Go watch Transformers and get back to us regarding what having your eyes shit on actually looks like.
PhantomX1313
Member
*Life comes at you Fast*
From the look of it sounds more like personal fight of directors and studio head
From the look of it sounds more like personal fight of directors and studio head
Yea I imagine that's fairly close to reality. It definitely doesn't sound like they were expecting to be fired and it's pretty much unheard of to actually be fired in principle like this.
thehypocrite
Member
Nah.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Absolutely, they'll walk away from this smelling like roses.
To be this far into a shoot to pull the plug, to have positive buzz on what L&M were doing, to have that damning blub in the Variety article, I can't see whatever version of the movie Kennedy/Kasdan salvage from this being able to completely overcoming all the negative.
It's amazing they found a way to top Marvel over the whole Edgar Wright/Ant-Man thing, but they really did.
Fucking GAF, man
thehypocrite
Member
But those are shit films too. I fail to see your point. It's almost as if I can't consider both movie series to be bad. But I obviously can.
You can, but objectively speaking Star Wars films have been well received by critics and fans. Obviously the same cannot be said for Transformers.
Listen, it's okay that you didn't like it. But don't try to create an illogical argument based on your opinion, which is that of a small minority of people.
TFA was critically acclaimed and had fantastic word of mouth. Those two things matter more to Disney than some angry guy on a message board.
So when someone says, "Why should they stray from the formula that got them that response," and your reply is, "Because it sucked," it's rather disingenuous.
They've clearly already filmed a lot! Especially after 6 months, the amount of footage must be insane now. I hope not all of this is dropped and reshot, I'd love to see some of their takes make it into the final cut -- however I feel most of this will get reshot once they've finished main production. Without these guys involved in the the edit, It'l take shape very differently, which makes me think they'll reshoot the more improv styled shots with whoever takes over as Director and make it all fall in place with the script.
It's a sorry sight, it really is and I don't envy who ever the director is who steps into this film nor the editor(s) who deals with the cut of this film.
It's a sorry sight, it really is and I don't envy who ever the director is who steps into this film nor the editor(s) who deals with the cut of this film.
thehypocrite
Member
That's true. I just don't share the "concensus" on them.
I'm not angry. You can disagree without having to make stuff up. Additionally, a movie can make a bunch of money and be shit like TF, SS and others. Not always quality follows box office returns.
brandonh83
Banned
Sure you can, but your comment was about why they should shy away from a formula that has been successful both critically, financially, and with much of the general audience. It's not some thing where most people think it's absolute dog shit or a cinematic disgrace. It might be to you but the two new films so far have been solid to a lot of people.
I'm just saying we can have opinions but conversations are shit if someone speaks as if what they're saying is pure truth. The problem with your comment in this instance is that TFA is not generally considered a bad movie. Same for Jurassic World. It's hard to argue when part of the conversation is "no it's bad/yes it's good" because you're gonna get different viewpoints there which will lead nowhere.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Fans scare them off?
brandonh83
Banned
If fans could scare writers and directors off, none of this shit would get made because no one would ever stay on board. Remember the whining when Abrams was announced for VII?
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
If you want to keep the formula you don't hire two comedy-related directors for your Star Wars spin-off.
In a world where even Marvel is acknowledging they need to vaguely change up their formula, it's pretty telling we've had both RO and Han Solo torn out their directors hands and reworked seemingly over not being "Star Wars enough".
Why do spin-offs in the first place if they are only allowed to be .0002% different from a main franchise sequel?
It's thehypocrite, just ignore him.
Jest Chillin
Member
Not necessarily. If Kennedy approached them with the "We like your work/style/etc.. and we want you to put your specific flare on this" from the start, Lord and Miller wouldn't have felt the need to inform her.
I mean, I don't really think that Directors pitch for projects that already have scripts set in stone by the studio. You pitch if you're going to Write And Direct or you have some kind of Writing/Directing team... but this is a case of the script being steadfastly Kasdans.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Start reading
It doesn't really take too long once you realize how much of these 22 pages is one-liners, quotes of one-liners, gifs, and quotes of gifs.
You can knock it out in less than a half-hour.
I have faith in you.
Cmon man, I only have two minutes left in my nightly shit. Just tell me yes or no, anything worth reading in those 22 pages?
thehypocrite
Member
I said the film wasn't good. Additionally, I think the allusion to a formula is giving to much credit to a crew that has replaced 2 directors mid production already in about 4 films. There's also the history with the prior movies and directors.
Yes, comparing TFA to Transformers makes complete sense. Definitely not a disingenuous argument at all.
thehypocrite
Member
Why are you so invested that a comparison in a bounded context like box office returns offends you?
Salty Rice
Member
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