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Max Payne 3 Hands-On Previews: "Max Payne is Back!"

Angry Fork

Member
squidyj said:
I guess a completely static character is appealing to you? as opposed to something more dynamic?
static max payne > "dynamic" cole/kane/nathan hale/fat marcus fenix etc.

i'd rather him have a pink afro than the most generic gaming bald shit in the world.
i don't really care about his baldness though that's lower on the list of things I'm hating about MP3
 

squidyj

Member
Angry Fork said:
static max payne > "dynamic" cole/kane/nathan hale/fat marcus fenix etc.

i'd rather him have a pink afro than the most generic gaming bald shit in the world.
i don't really care about his baldness though that's lower on the list of things I'm hating about MP3

I mean, if Max Payne is supposed to be cinematic then Max Payne is supposed to change within the narrative, supposed to have an arc, that's what happens in films.
 
Oohh can't wait to read the previews when I get home. Based on the excerpts, my fears have been taken care of. All hail Rockstar.
 
Angry Fork said:
static max payne > "dynamic" cole/kane/nathan hale/fat marcus fenix etc.

i'd rather him have a pink afro than the most generic gaming bald shit in the world.
i don't really care about his baldness though that's lower on the list of things I'm hating about MP3

OK...I get that it's generic.

But aside from that, in what way will it change the atmosphere/game play in a negative way?

I'm just not getting the anger at the guy being bald. I mean, if the guy has a similar nose, similar facial structure...why make a big deal about the shaved head.

If anything he probably should have shaved his head after the first one.
 

Simo

Member
Sinatar said:
Is Max going to control properly or is it going to have that unresponsive goofy character handling that all the other RAGE engine games have had?

More previews keep getting posted but Joystiq's briefly mentioned controls...
Rockstar is making that transition more appealing with a more graceful interpretation of Max's bullet-ballet. The tech that powered Rockstar's other games this generation is behind Max Payne 3 as well, including Euphoria-powered physics and animation. The somewhat stiff movement of the previous games is gone, and there are some intuitive additions you might not notice at first, like Max landing on his back when jumping backwards. If you don't move from there, Max will stay on the ground and fire from that position. It's a tiny thing, but you see that kind of attention to detail in action games so rarely that it makes a mark.
 

Dacon

Banned
squidyj said:
I guess a completely static character is appealing to you? as opposed to something more dynamic?

So, dynamism is defined by shaving heads now?

No thanks. All it's done here is make Max look even more generic. They could have easily shook up his appearance without going to the extreme of making him completely bald in a sea of bald game characters.

It's not a make or break issue for me, it's just dumb imo. I have bigger concerns regarding this affair, as in the entire idea of bringing up Max's "demons" in a new game when his whole internal strife arc was soundly resolved in ME2.
 
Simo said:
More previews keep getting posted but Joystiq's briefly mentioned controls...

Sounds good. As long as Max doesn't control like a drunken gangster or cowboy (GTA/RDR ahem), I'm good.

Dacon said:
So, dynamism is defined by shaving heads now?

No thanks. All it's done here is make Max look even more generic. They could have easily shook up his appearance without going to the extreme of making him completely bald in a sea of bald game characters.

It's not a make or break issue for me, it's just dumb imo. I have bigger concerns regarding this affair, as in the entire idea of bringing up Max's "demons" in a new game when his whole internal strife arc was soundly resolved in ME2.

Perhaps, but it's not like his life was in a good place after all of that. Yes, he finally came to terms with his family's death, but he: aided a murder suspect's escape, fell in love with said murder suspect, was duped and betrayed by his best friend, murdered his partner, escaped from the police and got Bravura shot, was involved in the murder of a Senator and the arson/explosion of his house, killed like a million dudes, witnessed the death of the woman he loved, got fired, got blacklisted, got every criminal in the city gunning for him.

Shit, I'd be an alcoholic mess too.
 

Dacon

Banned
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Perhaps, but it's not like his life was in a good place after all of that. Yes, he finally came to terms with his family's death, but he: aided a murder suspect's escape, fell in love with said murder suspect, was duped and betrayed by his best friend, murdered his partner, escaped from the police and got Bravura shot, was involved in the murder of a Senator and the arson/explosion of his house, killed like a million dudes, witnessed the death of the woman he loved, got fired, got blacklisted, got every criminal in the city gunning for him.

Shit, I'd be an alcoholic mess too.

The whole point of it was that he had overcome his uncertainty and insecurity in his life and made his peace. He was ready to move on with his life beyond his rage and hate. I'm willing to see what they do here, but the whole idea feels like it invalidates most of what happened in ME2 and it irks me. I'll give it a chance but it's grudgingly.

Oh, and Mona survived for me :p
 

squidyj

Member
Dacon said:
So, dynamism is defined by shaving heads now?

No thanks. All it's done here is make Max look even more generic. They could have easily shook up his appearance without going to the extreme of making him completely bald in a sea of bald game characters.

It's not a make or break issue for me, it's just dumb imo. I have bigger concerns regarding this affair, as in the entire idea of bringing up Max's "demons" in a new game when his whole internal strife arc was soundly resolved in ME2.

Being dynamic is about moving between different states as a character, in your previous post you argued against my 'transformation' because max was already all these things he needed to be. If that's true through the whole game then he is static and boring as a character, what compelling narrative can be drawn around a rock that never changes? Whether or not his baldness makes him in some way physically generic is a trivial matter in comparison to his characterization.
It's true he doesn't have to shave his head to make that transformation but it does make for an easily understood (within context) and compelling image within a narrative, the sort of thing that visual media such as games and film thrive on.
 

squidyj

Member
Dacon said:
The whole point of it was that he had overcome his uncertainty and insecurity in his life and made his peace. He was ready to move on with his life beyond his rage and hate. I'm willing to see what they do here, but the whole idea feels like it invalidates most of what happened in ME2 and it irks me. I'll give it a chance but it's grudgingly.

Oh, and Mona survived for me :p

There's a damn good reason those endings never stick anywhere where a sequel is involved. BECAUSE IT'S BORING.
 

Dacon

Banned
squidyj said:
Being dynamic is about moving between different states as a character, in your previous post you argued against my 'transformation' because max was already all these things he needed to be. If that's true through the whole game then he is static and boring as a character, what compelling narrative can be drawn around a rock that never changes? Whether or not his baldness makes him in some way physically generic is a trivial matter in comparison to his characterization.
It's true he doesn't have to shave his head to make that transformation but it does make for an easily understood (within context) and compelling image within a narrative, the sort of thing that visual media such as games and film thrive on.

Character exploration is just as valid as character development. You do NOT need to have a character go through any sort of dramatic change to tell a compelling story. Max didn't change much internally from MP1 to MP2 until the end of MP2 but both games tell very compelling and dynamic stories. It's a fallacy that, a character has to change to be interesting. You can simply take an established character and put him through different trials and tribulations, without any of them necessarily changing who that character is at the core and still tell an interesting and entertaining story. Hell look at the Uncharted series, Drake really hasn't changed from inception yet those games still tell really good stories (without necessarily having mind blowing plots).

You are pigeon-holing the creative medium into your own restrictive guidelines. It's a strict matter of opinion that the image of a bald bearded guy is compelling at all to begin with, and many looked upon it with disgust opposed to interest. It's not exactly an interesting trope to begin with imo.

Also, I never, NEVER implied that his appearance had any bearing on his characterization at all, that's a tangent you chose to go on yourself and isn't at all relevant to anything I've said so far.

I'm not saying change is bad, I just don't like this change in particular and it isn't necessarily an important issue. It's an aesthetic choice I don't take to. That's all. I'm not against the idea of changing his appearance to accommodate change in his life, I just think this was a bad way to do it, especially given the current status of western game heroes.

Also, if we're going for the avenue of dynamic and compelling change, then this game isn't doing a good job of it, since it's revisiting the same avenue of a broken Max Payne who has fallen on bad times yet again, then goes on another painkiller and bullet filled rampage.

If we really wanted to mix things up, why not go for a more hopeful, optimistic Max Payne who's looking for justice instead of just playing at being a one man army rage fueled maniac killer with a badge? I'd be much more interested in playing through an adventure where Max is in the process of rebuilding his life, and refusing to let whatever tribulations life throws at him break him down yet again.
However, like I said I am willing to give this a chance, since Rockstar has won me over before.

There's a damn good reason those endings never stick anywhere where a sequel is involved. BECAUSE IT'S BORING.

Speak for yourself. Mona was a great character and there's plenty they could have done with her beyond MP2 if they so chose.
 
Imagined Dream Sequences with Euphoria....

*shivers*

Still mega hype though. Looks like a perfect combination of old and new style Max Payne.
 

Dacon

Banned
max-payne-3-20111005113841661.jpg


I love this shot for all the wrong reasons.
 
This is pretty much my most anticipated game on the horizon.

We haven't gotten an experience even close to this since Stranglehold

SO FUCKING HYPED!
 

squidyj

Member
Dacon said:
Character exploration is just as valid as character development. You do NOT need to have a character go through any sort of dramatic change to tell a compelling story. Max didn't change much internally from MP1 to MP2 until the end of MP2 but both games tell very compelling and dynamic stories. It's a fallacy that, a character has to change to be interesting. You can simply take an established character and put him through different trials and tribulations, without any of them necessarily changing who that character is at the core and still tell an interesting and entertaining story. Hell look at the Uncharted series, Drake really hasn't changed from inception yet those games still tell really good stories (without necessarily having mind blowing plots).

You are pigeon-holing the creative medium into your own restrictive guidelines. It's a strict matter of opinion that the image of a bald bearded guy is compelling at all to begin with, and many looked upon it with disgust opposed to interest. It's not exactly an interesting trope to begin with imo.

Also, I never, NEVER implied that his appearance had any bearing on his characterization at all, that's a tangent you chose to go on yourself and isn't at all relevant to anything I've said so far.

I'm not saying change is bad, I just don't like this change in particular and it isn't necessarily an important issue. It's an aesthetic choice I don't take to. That's all. I'm not against the idea of changing his appearance to accommodate change in his life, I just think this was a bad way to do it, especially given the current status of western game heroes.

Also, if we're going for the avenue of dynamic and compelling change, then this game isn't doing a good job of it, since it's revisiting the same avenue of a broken Max Payne who has fallen on bad times yet again, then goes on another painkiller and bullet filled rampage.

If we really wanted to mix things up, why not go for a more hopeful, optimistic Max Payne who's looking for justice instead of just playing at being a one man army rage fueled maniac killer with a badge? I'd be much more interested in playing through an adventure where Max is in the process of rebuilding his life, and refusing to let whatever tribulations life throws at him break him down yet again.
However, like I said I am willing to give this a chance, since Rockstar has won me over before.



Speak for yourself. Mona was a great character and there's plenty they could have done with her beyond MP2 if they so chose.

Where would you go? What would you do?

Also, hopeful optimism is definitely NOT noir. It's practically antithetical to noir.
 

Dacon

Banned
squidyj said:
Where would you go? What would you do?

I'm not going to bog down the thread with my own fan fiction ideas :p.

Those were just my thoughts on the matter. NYCC is looking to be the best chance we have at getting a good feel for the game in the near future.

Also, hopeful optimism is definitely NOT noir. It's practically antithetical to noir.

Optimistic characters have existed in noir( I think, admittedly it's been a long time since I watched a real noir film). The main character himself need not be depressed/oppressed or negative, the general atmosphere and themes of the story are what makes something noir isn't it? Tbh as long as the general presentation and atmosphere is there I am not too married to all of the themes of noir being present.
 

Simo

Member
Dacon said:
NYCC is looking to be the best chance we have at getting a good feel for the game in the near future.

Seems like it's only the same presentation seen in the previews but by appointment only so we may not here, or see much, unless some NY gaffers are going.

I noticed Rockstar showed off the game again today in London at the 360 Gathering event.
 

Dacon

Banned
Simo said:
Seems like it's only the same presentation seen in the previews but by appointment only so we may not here, or see much, unless some NY gaffers are going.

I noticed Rockstar showed off the game again today in London at the 360 Gathering event.

Is there any chance of the public actually getting footage of it this time?
 

Simo

Member
Dacon said:
Is there any chance of the public actually getting footage of it this time?

I don't know, I tried to see answer would answer the question even after mentioning their own advertisement for the presentation but they just said "no official details" have been released. =/

We are getting a new video sometime this month. Heck, I'd take a truncated 10 minute version of the presentation if thats what they release.
 
I loved the fact that even after the promising hands-on, impressions and that Sam Lake and Remedy did a little eye-watching on the project and not only approved but loved what they did with MP3, there are still people that are saying its not Max Payne enough or not 'Noir' at all.
 

Calcaneus

Member
Don't you think you're romanticising Max Payne's story and atmosphere a bit, guys? Yeah it was cool, but to say the gameplay was secondary is taking it too far. 1 & 2 were in the rare group of games that actually got bullet-timey third person shooting right, and that's what I want from this. If they get that right, they can give him a final fantasy haircut for all I care.
 
Calcaneus said:
Don't you think you're romanticising Max Payne's story and atmosphere a bit, guys? Yeah it was cool, but to say the gameplay was secondary is taking it too far. 1 & 2 were in the rare group of games that actually got bullet-timey third person shooting right, and that's what I want from this. If they get that right, they can give him a final fantasy haircut for all I care.

They got everything right, which was awesome.
 

Simo

Member
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
From AW forums courtesy of some Polish site.

maxpayne34e8de30c590a3ieqn.jpg


max-payne-3-8_173s28ekj.jpg


max-payne-3-6_173s2frj3.jpg

Niiice! The dimensions make it look like they are screengrabs with the artwork possibly being the menu art? I know the game was demoed again yesterday in London for Microsofts Gathering event where a bunch of 360 games were presented but I'm not sure about something going on in Europe...?

The screenshots are from the demo though.
 

SamuraiX-

Member
I think once they show some real gameplay, the doubts of new and old fans alike will be put to rest.

Alternative: tables will be flipped
 

Atomski

Member
Wallach said:
Really? I'm not very worried at all. This is exactly the kind of game Rockstar is actually good at making.
How so? They did not make Max Payne before and I can't think of any of their in house games being similar at all..
 

dustin

Neo Member
so, idunno. i'm a little wasted and forever reason the old shakespeare quote and max payne really connected to me, so i made this little thing
SzsLG.png
 

jgminto

Member
PersonaX said:
Why even bother calling it Max Payne, though, looks and feels nothing like it.
Of course with all of the hands on time you've had with the game you can judge how it feels. Right.
 

AwesomeSauce

MagsMoonshine
Seeing this demoed on 360 makes me nervous already about the pc/ps3 port, the latter being inferior gfx wise, and the former needing ridiculous requirements. Please prove me wrong this time R*.
 

PersonaX

Member
jgminto said:
Of course with all of the hands on time you've had with the game you can judge how it feels. Right.

Nah, you can tell a lot from videos, also, it has that lazy ass cover system, stupid trend.

I'm not feeling this game at all, looks bland and too much like fucking gta4.
 

jgminto

Member
PersonaX said:
Nah, you can tell a lot from videos, also, it has that lazy ass cover system, stupid trend.

I'm not feeling this game at all, looks bland and too much like fucking gta4.
So judging the one gameplay video we've seen and a cover system that R* has confirmed that the game is not being designed around you can judge the gameplay. And how the fuck does it look like GTA? We've seen night NY missions which look classic Max and dirty, violent favela mission which, if my memory hasn't deteriorated in the last 3 years, were not in GTA.
 

Simo

Member
mysticwhip said:
So when can we expect some gameplay since they're already showing it off and all?

Video? Rockstar are supposed to be releasing a new video this month so maybe it'll be more gameplay oriented. NY Comic Con is next weekend which Rockstar are presenting the same demo that was at the London 360 Gathering event and that the media outlets saw so hopefully something will find it's way next weekend.


NotTheGuyYouKill said:

Most appropriate gif ever.

I think it was posted already but here's Remedy's take on Max Payne 3 and their involvement with the project:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTwgBrUK4ng&feature=player_embedded

Essentially Remedy has been collaborating with Rockstar "for years" on Max Payne 3, everyone from the art director for MP1&2 to the lead programmer for MP2 and liking the idea of being able to share thoughts and scenarios and not having to develop them themselves but for Rockstar to. Sam Lake comments on the head shaving scene and his thoughts and mentions that Max Payne 1 originally was supposed to have multiplayer but given the small size of the team that worked on the first game and time restraints it had to be cut so he's glad Rockstar is giving it a shot for MP3
 
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