You do realize that Elder Scrolls and COD are both traditionally PC franchises? Steam never needed consoles to sell those games. In fact they'd probably sell more if the consoles didn't start getting them at all.
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Tim Schafer: Indies Moving Away From XBLA, Console Patches Cost $40,000
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
sixteen-bit
Member
Wow, console patches ain't cheap.
PinkCrayon
Member
Good. That should incentivize people not to release broken games. Even though it clearly doesn't (Skyrim).
But they wouldn't have the budget they have now if not for the retail console versions. Steam to most publishers is a way to steer away some pirates from downloading games illegally.
You wouldn't see games with as high budgets as skyrim and cod if their only marketplace was steam.
edit: fixed the they're/their mistake. You're infecting me, gaf
Autofokus
Member
Bad example.
Did you play the console releases? Corrupted savegames, more than a handful of big bugs and what-not - took 2-3 Patches and 1-2 months to fix all that shit.
CecilRousso
Member
A game with a bug in it is not necessarily a broken game, but you still want that bug fixed. And not every patch is about bugs.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Not true, PSN charges the publisher a fee per MB regardless of the download. This includes "free" content like patches or demos.
Dark Octave
Banned
How about finishing your game before you gold it?
MS is a rip off as well.
So everytime my 360 kicks me offline to update a game, that $40k out of the dev's/pub's pocket, or is it sometimes an internal MS update as well? Because I can't recall a game that didn't do this at least once.
MS is a rip off as well.
So everytime my 360 kicks me offline to update a game, that $40k out of the dev's/pub's pocket, or is it sometimes an internal MS update as well? Because I can't recall a game that didn't do this at least once.
I totally agree, but that wasn't really my point. I think the timing of those articles where just very convenient and skewed to only focus on XBLA. Seems that most PSN problems where either not discussed or not even mentioned, but seems to be having the same major problems as XBLA.
There was clearly mudsliggin between the two console manufacturers, so I'm kind of skeptical of how it was made and the pure focus on only PSN/XBLA.
To be fair 2D Boy's seem to be the one that the most comprehensive of them all, so it's not really the article I'm having doubts about. Still, the title is really trollish.
Felix Lighter
Member
Patches have traditionally been used for more than simple bug fixes on PC. Long term support for games on consoles has been awful outside of a handful of cases.
First of all it's been like 8 years since COD was a PC franchise, and it's been even longer for Elder Scrolls. Mod support which lets PC players turn ES games into PC games doesn't count when the actual games are designed for consoles first.
Second these games get made as they are because of the budgets they're given, which they're only given because they sell 10+ million and probably 75% of that is on consoles.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
It would be dependant on the publishers, pretty sure Double Fine don't really care (judging by their comments on GiantBomb).
Castor Krieg
Banned
°°ToMmY°°;35096226 said:
It didn't occur to any of you that if the games stayed on PC, huge budgets wouldn't be needed? You know, as PC development is cheaper than console development?
funkystudent
Member
That's messed up and clearly console makers need to change.
It must be worse for PSN stuff since SCEA and SCEE are treated as completely different certifications
It must be worse for PSN stuff since SCEA and SCEE are treated as completely different certifications
The PC is already an open system. There's nothing preventing you from alt-tabbing from Steam, loading Newgrounds.com and playing hundreds of Super Mario and MegaMan clones. Heck, you can even do it inside a Steam game (using the overlay browser)!
I do know that Skyrim wouldn't have sold 10 million if it was PC only, and that's what these people care about most.
infinityBCRT
Member
Imagine how bad it would be without the patch certification. They'd probably upload the wrong build!
trollol
Man, that chart says it all.
Congratulations, I'm so happy for you.
The Phantomnaut
Neo Member
I guess that's why Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike Online Edition isn't getting another reasonable patch in the future.
I'm sure that's what they tell them as they pick pocket there wallet.
It's very difficult to get games on Steam. Very difficult. :\
Microsoft has a "first patch free, the rest $$$" while Sony charges for bandwidth used on the PS Store, but no charge for patches. That's how it was a few months ago anyways.
alexandros
Banned
I highly doubt that Valve is dictating prices to indie developers. I think it's more likely that they come up with recommendations, ie they show indie devs a bunch of numbers and tell them "based on our experience, this is the price point you need to set in order to get the most sales". Indie devs really have no reason not to believe them since, well, they're Valve and they've been doing PC game sales for a long time.
You make it sound like this a good thing. Strange. Let me point out then that both franchises were a) fantastic even before they went multiplatform and b) arguably even better than their current console-led incarnations.
You make it sound like this a good thing. Strange. Let me point out then that both franchises were a) fantastic even before they went multiplatform and b) arguably even better than their current console-led incarnations.
dragonelite
Member
Dont know maybe because the people when getting a shitty product will blame microsoft instead of the developer why their console game isn't working properly.
How does patching actually work in the indie channel of xbl.
When did I say otherwise? You guys are really missing the point here.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I do find it amusing every time a XBLA or PSN "exclusive" lands on Steam.
I see little reason for developers to bother with XBLA/PSN anymore.
- Need a publisher most of the time to even get considered
- Need to get greenlit by the platform manager first. Since they release only like one or two games per week that's ~100 games a year max.
- Pay for ESRB rating
- Deal with strict certification
- Deal with size restrictions (though much less of a problem now)
- Have the platform holders dictate pricing of your game AND downloadable content
- Get charged $40k just for supporting your game with a patch
Then you have no idea when your game will actually be released. Unless it's one of the lucky four "Summer of Arcade" or "PSN PLAY" style promotions, the game gets pretty much no advertising at all. Seems like a lot of shitty extra hoops to jump through and unnecessary costs just to get your game on the service.
Compare that to Apple who pimps developers apps/games on their Appstore Twitter account (785k followers), Facebook (4m+ fans), weekly "What's new on iTunes" email newsletters, television commercials, preloads them onto iOS devices in their retail stores, etc.
- Need a publisher most of the time to even get considered
- Need to get greenlit by the platform manager first. Since they release only like one or two games per week that's ~100 games a year max.
- Pay for ESRB rating
- Deal with strict certification
- Deal with size restrictions (though much less of a problem now)
- Have the platform holders dictate pricing of your game AND downloadable content
- Get charged $40k just for supporting your game with a patch
Then you have no idea when your game will actually be released. Unless it's one of the lucky four "Summer of Arcade" or "PSN PLAY" style promotions, the game gets pretty much no advertising at all. Seems like a lot of shitty extra hoops to jump through and unnecessary costs just to get your game on the service.
Compare that to Apple who pimps developers apps/games on their Appstore Twitter account (785k followers), Facebook (4m+ fans), weekly "What's new on iTunes" email newsletters, television commercials, preloads them onto iOS devices in their retail stores, etc.
Supposedly you get 2 free patches.
That said, even longtime Microsoft fans at Stardock have blasted XBL and XBLIG. (Stardock put out a $1 game called Elfsquad 7 from one of their employees last Christmas, and they were not happy at all with Microsoft over that, and this is a company that makes most of its money from Windows)
ThaiGrocer
Member
I'm curious on why that is. There have stories where Valve doesn't respond for a long time or you're lost forever in their inbox. Are there any other accounts of the application process that we know of? Edit: Feeeeep, where are you??
It's like 260+ people working there right now, according to Wikipedia. Compare that to 7820 employees at EA, for example. I don't imply that as evidence of them being pulled in multiple directions or have any judgment of their priorities.
dragonelite
Member
Maybe this is also a good incentive to prevent skyrim ps3 versions(polishment) showing up on xbla.
Dat bethesda rage...
Dat bethesda rage...
Call of Duty 1 was a terrible game (in single player at least) and I was always surprised to see it so popular when there were many deeper and more fun military shooters available at the time.
snoopeasystreet
Member
I get the whole quality control and all but shouldn't Microsoft/Sony believe that it's in the developers best interest to make sure their game is as good as it can possibly be? I can't think of many people that would release a game, break it and then not bother to fix it.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Not completely.
Looking at that chart you would expect higher quality indie PSN and even WW games compared to XBLIG, and you don't get that. You would also expect higher quality facebook games compared to iOS and you don't get that either.
How much $$$ for the rest? Also, Sony's .16 per GB always seemed reasonable to me.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
It was an amazing game in multiplayer built on the rock solid Quake 3 engine code.
There are probably active servers still up.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
40k is a lot of money for a patch.
It´s surprising that 48% of indie devs think that working on XBLA games is excruciating.
It´s surprising that 48% of indie devs think that working on XBLA games is excruciating.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Indie devs don't like being told what to do.
They like the funding. They like the spending somebody else's money part. They don't like the being told how to make your game the best it can be part.
Oh yeah. That's why.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Certification and support isn't the only factor leading to platform selection though. Marketshare's a big issue, ratings boards as well (something XBLIG doesn't worry about), as well as royalty structure (sucks on WiiWare especially).
PSN and WiiWare don't really have an equivalent to XBLIG though, there's no garage/hobbyist infrastructure. That's really something else.
Diablohead
Member
First patch on xbox live is free right? otherwise a ton of games out there would still be broken today.
You're fishing really hard for a tag quote, aintcha?
Which is basically charging for patches?
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Glad to see Tim note the costs. There are a LOT of costs behind the scenes that most gamers have no idea about. Knowing this information makes me laugh when you see people wanting weekly patches to fix small things in certain games.
The bandwidth used for PSN patches is not charged either. Which is why a lot of devs go for the "400mb mandatory patch, 100kb install key DLC" route.
