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dark10x · Nov 18, 2012

eot said:
Not saying you're wrong, but I don't understand how you could tell from a single screenshot where the only lightsource is the sun and the time of day is fixed. There's nothing about that scene that demonstrates dynamic lighting or shadows.

Look at the shadows coming in from the sky light. They are baked on WiiU (in this instance). It's clear as day.

That said, if this is just a splitscreen instance, that would explain it as the other video does have shadows.

There's no time of day in play here either, it should be noted. The difference in color simply stems from the capture quality not the game itself.

Maxrunner · Nov 18, 2012

dark10x said:
Look at the shadows coming in from the sky light. They are baked on WiiU (in this instance). It's clear as day.

That said, if this is just a splitscreen instance, that would explain it as the other video does have shadows.

There's no time of day in play here either, it should be noted. The difference in color simply stems from the capture quality not the game itself.

Have you seen the other videos???no split screen stuff...

EatChildren · Nov 18, 2012

eot said:
Not saying you're wrong, but I don't understand how you could tell from a single screenshot where the only lightsource is the sun and the time of day is fixed. There's nothing about that scene that demonstrates dynamic lighting or shadows.

Spend enough time with the Call of Duty series and you grow to recognise the dynamic shadows the engine casts. In the scene dark10x posted the 360 version is casting dynamic shadows across the room through the ceiling, whereas in the Wii U version has slightly baked shadows with an absence of real dynamic shadows. You can pretty easily spot them missing.

That being said, as I noted above, it's a product of the game running in split screen (one person on the TV, the other on the GamePad), which is what the person was playing when they recorded that footage. Not unusual for graphical content to be reduced/cut to keep performance high.

In solo mode all dynamic shadows, environment and character, are present, as evident by the other videos.

sinnergy · Nov 18, 2012

EatChildren said:
Spend enough time with the Call of Duty series and you grow to recognise the dynamic shadows the engine casts. In the scene dark10x posted the 360 version is casting dynamic shadows across the room through the ceiling, whereas in the Wii U version has slightly baked shadows with an absence of real dynamic shadows. You can pretty easily spot them missing.

That being said, as I noted above, it's a product of the game running in split screen (one person on the TV, the other on the GamePad), which is what the person was playing when they recorded that footage. Not unusual for graphical content to be reduced/cut to keep performance high.

In solo mode all dynamic shadows, environment and character, are present, as evident by the other videos.

This would mean the devs had to make extra set of textures, they would load something as a png over the textures with the shadows and AO, why would they even bother? Right? Or does this happen often?

Eideka · Nov 18, 2012

So that's that, many assume the Wii U would get superior ports because of its hardware and so far it's not the case with any games.
Black Ops 2, Mass Effect 3, Batman AC are more or less on par with the PS360 versions.

Yes, they are cheap ports but even then we should see an increase in graphical fidelity by virtue of running on more powerful hardware.

:/

grimshawish · Nov 18, 2012

sinnergy said:
This would mean the devs had to make extra set of textures, they would load something as a png over the textures with the shadows and AO, why would they even bother? Right? Or does this happen often?

Not sure how it works, but this is just going to be ported from other systems split screen.
Just now you get one full screen.

Ein Bear · Nov 18, 2012

Eideka said:
So that's that, many assume the Wii U would get superior ports because of its hardware and so far it's not the case with any games.
Black Ops 2, Mass Effect 3, Batman AC are more or less on par with the PS360 versions.

Yes, they are cheap ports but even then we should see an increase in graphical fidelity by virtue of running on more powerful hardware.

:/

Oh well, the tech side might be disappointing, but at least the game and the content are all new.

grimshawish · Nov 18, 2012

Eideka said:
So that's that, many assume the Wii U would get superior ports because of its hardware and so far it's not the case with any games.
Black Ops 2, Mass Effect 3, Batman AC are more or less on par with the PS360 versions.

Yes, they are cheap ports but even then we should see an increase in graphical fidelity by virtue of running on more powerful hardware.

:/

Some of them are evidently poorer. That image is a great example of different strengths/weaknesses of hardware.

BLOPS2 is right on par, but again we'll need to see more to know if its matching the 360 or if there are plus points or negatives. ME3 has technical issues and frankly I've no idea why EA are bothering with it, everything is wrong about that game.

Wouldn't say no to a ME trilogy later on in the life cycle, but ME3 is a mess from conception to the final product.

Batman AC isn't sounding nearly as bad as early impressions but the gamepad is used to draw away from the games quality - which should have been dealt with; but their going for gimmicky, and it is a port of an old game so I can forgive them for that.

ACIII am interested in from a tech point. The game itself would only interest me if the combat was you know...good.

JCizzle · Nov 18, 2012

Also curious about AC3 if it still has frame rate drops or not.

MadeInBeats · Nov 18, 2012

Eideka said:
So that's that, many assume the Wii U would get superior ports because of its hardware and so far it's not the case with any games.
Black Ops 2, Mass Effect 3, Batman AC are more or less on par with the PS360 versions.

Yes, they are cheap ports but even then we should see an increase in graphical fidelity by virtue of running on more powerful hardware.

:/

People like yourself keep saying that (and part of me wants to agree) but what gives you the authority to claim it? I need to see some ID.

deleted · Nov 18, 2012

Eideka said:
So that's that, many assume the Wii U would get superior ports because of its hardware and so far it's not the case with any games.
Black Ops 2, Mass Effect 3, Batman AC are more or less on par with the PS360 versions.

Yes, they are cheap ports but even then we should see an increase in graphical fidelity by virtue of running on more powerful hardware.

:/

I give you ME3 and Batman, but BO2 seems solid so far. Two player full-screen-splitscreen, full online multiplayer, a whole-range of input-alternatives, off-screen play.

Do we have any confirmation, if you can play the splitscreen mode online? If you can, could you "log in" a second player on the Wii U, 360 style?

EDarkness · Nov 18, 2012

Eideka said:
So that's that, many assume the Wii U would get superior ports because of its hardware and so far it's not the case with any games.
Black Ops 2, Mass Effect 3, Batman AC are more or less on par with the PS360 versions.

Yes, they are cheap ports but even then we should see an increase in graphical fidelity by virtue of running on more powerful hardware.

:/

Hasn't it be stated that the Xbox 360 version of that scene is a pre-rendered video? The Wii U version may be realtime, which would make a difference.

Ydahs · Nov 18, 2012

Eideka said:
So that's that, many assume the Wii U would get superior ports because of its hardware and so far it's not the case with any games.
Black Ops 2, Mass Effect 3, Batman AC are more or less on par with the PS360 versions.

Yes, they are cheap ports but even then we should see an increase in graphical fidelity by virtue of running on more powerful hardware.

:/

A couple of pages someone mentioned those scenes are not real time.

About the bolded, just because a game is running on more powerful hardware, it doesn't mean it's going to appear better all of a sudden. Engines have to be adapted based on the architecture of the target hardware and developers have to actually take time to implement the improvements. As you mentioned, it is a cheap port, so all the budget was probably dedicated to getting the game running on the new hardware and ensuring it was bug free. For many of the launch ports, it's not about pushing the console, but more about ensuring the games are working in an acceptable state. No point in spending big budgets for no financial gain.

If you really want to judge a console's capabilities, you don't judge it by launch titles.

HocusPocus · Nov 18, 2012

Well it appears that WiiU owners should reward Rocksteady for their great port of Batman and avoid the others. Batman is super awesome if you haven't played it yet. Dissapointing on Ninja Gaiden and Mass Effect 3.

wsippel · Nov 18, 2012

Eideka said:
So that's that, many assume the Wii U would get superior ports because of its hardware and so far it's not the case with any games.
Black Ops 2, Mass Effect 3, Batman AC are more or less on par with the PS360 versions.

Yes, they are cheap ports but even then we should see an increase in graphical fidelity by virtue of running on more powerful hardware.

:/

The way the Wii U is designed, it should be best suited for engines using deferred shading. Trine 2 is probably the only port on Wii U that uses deferred shading, and Frozenbyte stated that they had the game up and running in just a few days, and had no problem reaching good performance levels.

Krakatoa · Nov 18, 2012

Any feed back an assassins creed? I am thinking about getting it because I have not played yet.

Gemüsepizza · Nov 18, 2012

wsippel said:
The way the Wii U is designed, it should be best suited for engines using deferred shading. Trine 2 is probably the only port on Wii U that uses deferred shading, and Frozenbyte stated that they had the game up and running in just a few days, and had no problem reaching good performance levels.

In 720p.

Eideka · Nov 18, 2012

wsippel said:
The way the Wii U is designed, it should be best suited for engines using deferred shading. Trine 2 is probably the only port on Wii U that uses deferred shading, and Frozenbyte stated that they had the game up and running in just a few days, and had no problem reaching good performance levels.

And they managed to make it run at 1080p, impressive work.

A couple of pages someone mentioned those scenes are not real time.
Abbut the bolded, just because a game is running on more powerful hardware, it doesn't mean it's going to appear better all of a sudden. Engines have to be adapted based on the architecture of the target hardware and developers have to actually take time to implement the improvements. As you mentioned, it is a cheap port, so all the budget was probably dedicated to getting the game running on the new hardware and ensuring it was bug free. For many of the launch ports, it's not about pushing the console, but more about ensuring the games are working in an acceptable state. No point in spending big budgets for no financial gain.
If you really want to judge a console's capabilities, you don't judge it by launch titles.

Of course I'm not going to pretend this is what the Wii U has to offer in terms of graphical capabilities. We know it's going to take a little bit of optimization, reworking of tools before we see magnificent titles on the consoles.

I was merely disappointed that those titles could not look noticeably better on ....better hardware. The architecture of the Wii U is pretty similar to that of the 360, am I correct ? I am a bit naive I allow but to my mind the Wii U is quite clearly ahead of the current HD twins and I rightfully expected ports to look better. Better AA, AF, framerate, resolution as a baseline...So far it does not seem to be the case. :/

Hasn't it be stated that the Xbox 360 version of that scene is a pre-rendered video? The Wii U version may be realtime, which would make a difference.

You are absolutely right.
I did not mean to bash the Wii U, of course we have yet to see the full Digital Foundry analysis to found out how does the Wii U build compares.

kinggroin · Nov 18, 2012

Gemüsepizza;44473665 said:
In 720p.

Is that lower than the competing platform iterations?

Edit: wait, is it 1080p or 720p?

btrboyev · Nov 18, 2012

kinggroin said:
Is that lower than the competing platform iterations?

Edit: wait, is it 1080p or 720p?

720p

Durante · Nov 18, 2012

dark10x said:
Are we sure it's realtime? They had to redo all of the FMV for the WiiU version as a result of the modified suit.

I don't know whether it's realtime, but wouldn't they increase the shadow resolution for a prerendered scene at least? As is, it looks terrible.

Eideka said:
I was merely disappointed that those titles could not look noticeably better on ....better hardware. The architecture of the Wii U is pretty similar to that of the 360, am I correct ?

It is. Of course there are many differences (e.g. the DSP), but as far as consoles released 7 years apart go it's very close. Uniform memory pool, eDRAM for the AMD GPU, triple core IBM CPU.

EatChildren · Nov 18, 2012

Trine 2 is 720p on Wii U, not 1080p. Fairly certain it runs at 720p on PS3/360 too.

grimshawish · Nov 18, 2012

Hellish is streaming a really top quality stream here:
http://www.twitch.tv/hellishtv#

Seems to be streaming to a capture device and gamepad.

Sid · Nov 18, 2012

EatChildren said:
Trine 2 is 720p on Wii U, not 1080p. Fairly certain it runs at 720p on PS3/360 too.

I thought the dev confirmed it was native 1080p?that's sad

Ein Bear said:
Oh well, the tech side might be disappointing, but at least the game and the content are all new.

lol

wsippel · Nov 18, 2012

Durante said:
It is. Of course there are many differences (e.g. the DSP), but as far as consoles released 7 years apart go it's very close. Uniform memory pool, eDRAM for the AMD GPU, triple core IBM CPU.

I wouldn't exactly call Nintendo's MEM1/ MEM2 approach "uniform". It's bascially an evolution of the Gamecube memory hierarchy:

MEM1: 24MB 1T-SRAM -> 24MB 1T-SRAM -> 32MB eDRAM
MEM2: 16MB SDRAM -> 64MB GDDR3 -> 2GB DDR3

Both pools are shared between CPU and GPU, but they're still distinct.

Eideka · Nov 18, 2012

Durante said:
It is. Of course there are many differences (e.g. the DSP), but as far as consoles released 7 years apart go it's very close. Uniform memory pool, eDRAM for the AMD GPU, triple core IBM CPU.

It must take a special kind of lazyness to end up with a barely superior port then.

Unless the two target buffers are much more of a problem that I imagined.

That's a shame, Nintendo could revive their franchise by putting a real next-gen console on the market. Technology-driven games are not a plague but a blessing more often than not, I dream of a Mario Sunshine game running on some serious hardware.

Nintendo, lama sabachthani ?

d0c_zaius · Nov 18, 2012

Krakatoa said:
Any feed back an assassins creed? I am thinking about getting it because I have not played yet.

yea this is the only title I have yet to here impressions on

dark10x · Nov 18, 2012

Maxrunner said:
Have you seen the other videos???no split screen stuff...

Well, I actually just bought the game and took a shot with my phone. When running in non-splitscreen the shadows are indeed present but they look rather different.

WiiU

360

Mpl90 · Nov 18, 2012

Sonic Racing - Outrun course

360

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay4y7YREruE&feature=g-subs-u

Wii U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3tbGf546mk&feature=youtu.be&hd=1

Put both at 720p

Ydahs · Nov 18, 2012

Nano Assault looks pretty good: http://de.twitch.tv/hecqubus

dark10x said:
Well, I actually just bought the game and took a shot with my phone. When running in non-splitscreen the shadows are indeed present but they look rather different.

Damn, that's a pretty low res light map. Any other immediately apparent changes? How's the AA?

EatChildren · Nov 18, 2012

dark10x said:
Well, I actually just bought the game and took a shot with my phone. When running in non-splitscreen the shadows are indeed present but they look rather different.

Cushions asset removed as well. Wii U version definitely weaker in your shot.

btrboyev · Nov 18, 2012

Is that Sonic 360 video borked or is the Wii U version that much smoother?

walking fiend · Nov 18, 2012

Well, Wii U may be HD, but the Shadows inherited Wii's jaggies

I NEED SCISSORS · Nov 18, 2012

It seems like Wii U really doesn't like shadows.

Ein Bear · Nov 18, 2012

I NEED SCISSORS said:
It seems like Wii U really doesn't like shadows.

No, he's in there, the guy recording the Sonic Racing video just hasn't unlocked him yet.

Twilight Princess · Nov 18, 2012

any assassin's creed impressions? i really want to know how wiiu's ASIII and blops2 compare to the twins'.

QaaQer · Nov 18, 2012

Laa Yosh from b3d said:
Also, they make their partners look bad. Judging by the hardware details it's impossible to produce a port of even a mildly complex X360/PS3 game, but all the flak from the audience will hit the developers instead of the one responsible.

I think I understand why 3rd party devs might not want to put things on wii u.

FoneBone · Nov 18, 2012

As much as the word "lazy" is being tossed around - I don't know how much the developers can really be blamed, given the constraints imposed by developing a launch title.

Van Owen · Nov 18, 2012

Twilight Princess said:
any assassin's creed impressions? i really want to know how wiiu's ASIII and blops2 compare to the twins'.

Just assume not as good.

Lonely1 · Nov 18, 2012

dark10x said:
Well, I actually just bought the game and took a shot with my phone. When running in non-splitscreen the shadows are indeed present but they look rather different.

Can you take direct feed?

FoneBone said:
As much as the word "lazy" is being tossed around - I don't know how much the developers can really be blamed, given the constraints imposed by developing a launch title.

Penny-pincher publishers is a better word.

dark10x · Nov 18, 2012

Man, the campaign framerate sucks thus far. The whole first scene is basically 30 fps up until the field starts to clear. Looks more like the 360 version in terms of IQ with the performance more like ps3 (maybe worse). It's definitely not even remotely stable. We'll see how it goes as I progress.

Lonely1 said:
Can you take direct feed?

Penny-pincher publishers is a better word.

Unless there is a way to snap screens with the system itself I can't take a direct feed.

Looks fantastic when displayed on the controller, though.

Tagg9 · Nov 18, 2012

Damn, very disappointing so far. I eagerly await the inevitable Digital Foundry article.

M3d10n · Nov 18, 2012

sinnergy said:
This would mean the devs had to make extra set of textures, they would load something as a png over the textures with the shadows and AO, why would they even bother? Right? Or does this happen often?

I think the latest CODs actually do have baked shadows, but they only show up on surfaces beyond the maximum range of the dynamic shadows (which only affect objects within a certain distance form the camera).

pottuvoi · Nov 18, 2012

M3d10n said:
I think the latest CODs actually do have baked shadows, but they only show up on surfaces beyond the maximum range of the dynamic shadows (which only affect objects within a certain distance form the camera).

This is actually a good way to do it as it prevents the visible end of shadows line seen in many games.
Also the lightmap doesn't really have to be very big when used for far away objects.

FoneBone · Nov 18, 2012

dark10x said:
Man, the campaign framerate sucks thus far. The whole first scene is basically 30 fps up until the field starts to clear. Looks more like the 360 version in terms of IQ with the performance more like ps3 (maybe worse). It's definitely not even remotely stable. We'll see how it goes as I progress.

Unless there is a way to snap screens with the system itself I can't take a direct feed.

Looks fantastic when displayed on the controller, though.

Is the framerate better if played only on the Gamepad? (If it has a gamepad-only mode, I can't remember...)

capitalCORN · Nov 18, 2012

This gen is full of prebaked lighting. COD being the biggest culprit (but 60fps lol).

Twilight Princess · Nov 18, 2012

dark10x said:
Man, the campaign framerate sucks thus far. The whole first scene is basically 30 fps up until the field starts to clear. Looks more like the 360 version in terms of IQ with the performance more like ps3 (maybe worse). It's definitely not even remotely stable. We'll see how it goes as I progress.

are you playing with the gamepad as a second display or the wii mote?

AzaK · Nov 18, 2012

Why would Wii U shadows be more jaggy? Isn't it a matter of memory?

Maxrunner · Nov 18, 2012

dark10x said:
Man, the campaign framerate sucks thus far. The whole first scene is basically 30 fps up until the field starts to clear. Looks more like the 360 version in terms of IQ with the performance more like ps3 (maybe worse). It's definitely not even remotely stable. We'll see how it goes as I progress.

Unless there is a way to snap screens with the system itself I can't take a direct feed.

Looks fantastic when displayed on the controller, though.

what game?

dark10x · Nov 18, 2012

Twilight Princess said:
are you playing with the gamepad as a second display or the wii mote?

It looks and runs the same either way. Only in actual split screen does it change.

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