phosphor112
Banned
This, so much this.
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VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...
- Thread starter Shikoro
- Start date
This, so much this.
badcrumble
Member
I'm just catching up on the later pages of the thread - are people mainly arguing over whether Durango or Orbis will be more powerful, or is there actually deeper discussion afoot? It's hard to tell because everyone sure seems like an expert.
edit: for the record, mods, I did read the first 15 pages.
edit: for the record, mods, I did read the first 15 pages.
The problem is that no one is in the position to make certain judgements even before these things actually exist in their final form. Developers still don't have the hardware we're talking about in their hands and we have people who might have heard something third hand who pretend they know the final word? How specific optimizations will work in real world situations?
It is possible to comment on raw specs, x > y, certain things are objective, but it will take developers a lot of experimenting to understand how they can make certain features shine, in which kind of games, in which graphical situations.
The products have a lot in common (just the fact they're supposedly using the same CPU is huge), they're both targeted to release in the same time period and at similar prices, so logic is enough to tell us that there won't be meaningful differences and it will be an other 360/PS3 situation. That is something I believed in much earlier than specs started to leak, it's just logic and commong sense.
Then depeding on the architectural choices made we'll see different strength points. Even PS2 which overall was inferior to the Xbox was better than it at managing particles effects, transparencies and getting 60fps on screen, the Dreamcast while clearly inferior to the PS2 had an image and texture quality that PS2 managed to match and surpass just because after many years developers learned a lot of tricks in developing for the system.
So most of it depends on having talented developers working with these systems, taking advantage of the peculiarities and developing tricks to walk around the weaknesses.
People are debating the credibility of secret sauce.
iamshadowlark
Banned
The latest leaks say PS4 is more powerful by some margin. What seems to be the prevailing theory is that MS has some secret HW to even the race up.
badcrumble
Member
I think people need to switch to the phrase "a verh tiny wizard inside the console," personally.
basically it's like 2005 all over again
Some high level discussion, and then it devolves into same BS banter as last time
VGLeaks seems to be indicating they'll post more about Orbis, and it might go a little more low-level than Eurogamer. I wouldn't expect much more detail though, maybe some more low level details on the CPU (cache configuration etc.) and maybe clarification on that 'compute module' if we're lucky.
DF's article had a lot of detail but maybe VGLeaks got blu-ray drive/controller info.
I don't think that people are doubting the existence of hardware customizations.
But it's really misleading to pretend to that a few hardware tricks to make compute units be less time in idle state will transform a low power GPU into a high end device.
Just as it's misleading to talk about multiplying the performance, such a thing does not exist, you can only get close to your theoretical performance and never reach it.
And of course it's misleading to assume that certain customization can only be exclusive of one company without knowing exactly what the other is doing.
I thought the common notion was not to measure next gen's HW power linearly?
I mean there could be other factors which could bring them both up a notch.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Wonder if they'll say something similar to what Proelite said last night:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46723133&postcount=2328
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46723307&postcount=2338
when they plan to post new article?
shinobi602
Member
And you'd be right, despite the "off the shelf PC parts" concerning Orbis and Durango.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
This thread is mostly people cherry picking rumors to confirm their bias. Technical talk has all but disappeared leaving consoles wars and secret sauce in its wake.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Well it's going be hard. Sony ninjas are everywhere. MS just simply don't have one.
JonathanPower
Member
Special sauce save me!!
What if Sony is cooking up a Cell sauce? Wouldn't the addedd 180 GFLOPS be one hell of a spicy sauce?
Makes sense, since they're dead in Japan. Sony's ninja's must've gotten them.
The 'holy grail' of the GPU world as someone put it.
badcrumble
Member
Durango is going to have the Holy Grail inside of it? Hot damn!
iamshadowlark
Banned
Flops are generally measures of raw power. Not everything in graphics is FP limited so it doesn't tell the whole story. In this case you get a great idea because of the similar designs.
Honestly I don't put much worth in his posts. Frankly he claims to know to much, imo.
As for that post he's wrong. The eurogamer rumor isn't an extra "CU", as in what AMD quantifies its GPUs with, the rumor is an extra "bespoke GPU like compute unit" as in an entirely separate processor.
The 1.84TF does not include the aforementioned "Compute Unit". Its a 7970m downclocked to 800mhz and with 2 CUs removed. It also doesn't include the CPU flops.
Well, he's saying that Eurogamer are wrong. Who's right, who's wrong, I've no idea. Like I say, maybe further leaks will clarify.
King Mystery
Member
50GB bluray discs? Games to cost $69.99 then.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
You seem very particular about the secret sauce you believe in. Very interesting.
shinobi602
Member
They're $59.99 this gen, why would they suddenly become more expensive next gen?
Used to pay about that much for new Genesis and SNES games back in the day.
I think the difference is we know from Eurogamer that the Compute module is in Orbis and have a fair idea of what it does.
For Durago, even after this leak with all the additional modules being shown there simply doesn't seem to be anything that could qualify as the hyped up 'secret sauce', i.e. something that will magically bring the perfomance of the rumored specs of Durago on par with Orbis.
Alx
Member
Well, they did suddenly become more expensive on this gen, when they reached $59.99.
Due to inflation, they would be pretty much the same value as 2005's $59.99 if they increased to $69.99.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Only for Gold subscribers.
StrongArmSteady
Member
Harsh..EG has said there is a GPU like compute unit, nobody knows for sure what the data move engines do...
Going off the name alone they sound like blitters...
Edit: beaten like a ho..
shinobi602
Member
I read this as "Only for God subscribers" at first and it actually makes sense.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Well one is coming from a guy who has zero credibility in my eyes. The other is from a pretty reputable site, which also corroborates with previous rumors and with an interview from a Sony CTO.
His explanation doesn't make much sense either. Why would you subtract whole CUs only to add more ALUs?
Can Crusher
Banned
What do those move units do?
Damn. Walmart must be going out of business after selling all those blu-ray movies for $5.
SneakyStephan
Banned
People are highly skeptical of some undisclosed unheard of microsoft exclusive superchip that turns a 1.2 tf gpu into an 1.8 tf equivalent and that also magically avoids the bandwidth limitations of the rumored specs.
It really isn't rocketscience.
I want durango to have strong hardware, not to hide more likely astmathic hardware and bandwidth behind bullshit marketing '64 bit' style crap.
Personally I couldnt give a crap which one is more powerful than the other, as long as they both compare reasonably well to a modern gaming pc and both offer good bang for buck.
Brands are now above criticism or scrutinising else you are automatically a fanboy of the other brand! all hail the corporate overlords!
It's fun to take the piss out of it, we'll see what hardware the xbox3 and ps4 end up with when they are revealed, for now the promises behind the leaks are nothing but hot air and we have no reason to get excited over something we are supposed to believe on good faith alone.
The puns and wizard's jizz etc are an attempt to keep things light hearted.
phosphor112
Banned
I'm assuming it's one of these. It's been mentioned time and again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitter
You haven't played PlayStation 3 have you..
People in here are mentioning blitter, so I'd go with that.
Can Crusher
Banned
Proelite says there are 4 modules.
Over at B3d they say the whole "blitter" thing was just a nickname, sort of a joke. I have my doubts it's a blitter, even if it might make people remember about a blitter.
I can comprehend that since you don't know, you will go with what the crowd is throwing. It's understandable, but it doesn't seem likely.
VGLeaks said they would explain what those are very soon.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Weird. Games on PS3 with 50GB blu-ray are actually cheaper...
phosphor112
Banned
1 was revealed for video encoding, likely for kinect feed. Another echo cancelation for kinect input. Other 2? I don't know where the 4th came from, but a blitter would make sense. Though a "blitter" like feature is already built into most GPUs.
video encoder and echo cancellation are not part of the Data Move Engines (according to the diagram in the OP)
the whole blitter thing is just people running with the idea from a b3d thread on random possible hardware co-processors
Early days yet.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
The same one that was brought up at B3D as a joke, then made the rounds around the net?
