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Tomb Raider Definitive Edition - PlayStation 4 = ~60fps, Xbox One = ~30fps
- Thread starter EatChildren
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Trent Strong
Banned
I don't get it.
1080p/30 is less surprising for X1 than 1080p/60 is for PS4.
I wonder how much compute work the game is doing and if it's a significant bit, if PS4's design is helping out a lot in terms of squeezing more work into less (vs PC). If that was the case it would be a very encouraging sign for the future.
I wonder how much compute work the game is doing and if it's a significant bit, if PS4's design is helping out a lot in terms of squeezing more work into less (vs PC). If that was the case it would be a very encouraging sign for the future.
*pukes*
After gaming at 1080p for years on PC going back to 720 is so jarring that I can hardly stand it. It's a last gen resolution that needs to die already.
Lol awesome
Stone Ocean
Member
Stripper13
Member
I almost want the mods to implement a 'final thoughts' type post for banned members. That is, unless they're completely out of line (NSFW etc) - they can post one more time to try and justify or perhaps give their response to the inevitable banning. To be a mod for a day..
You done good Chobel.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
If nothing else this sort of makes me worry just how much the Xbone is going to hamstring this generation. I mean this is a last gen port, indicating that we certainly wont be seeing 60FPS PS4 games very often once the ball really gets rolling, but then... what the fuck does that mean for multiplatform and Xbone versions? Are they gonna have to take entire notch downs like Medium settings on a PC game equivalent to PS4's high just to run at 30 FPS?
Microsoft really fucked this rodeo up.
Microsoft really fucked this rodeo up.
30FPS will Always Deliver Better Story-Telling than 60FPS in Games – Heres Why
All the peeps of the Gaming World have been going crazy over 30 FPS and 60 FPS standards this last year. From 60fps/1080p being thought the new Next Gen standard to Ryse downgrades. But there a point many people are missing, one which i hope to shed some light on today, the point that why 30 FPS cant and shouldn’t ever be replaced with 60fps.
30fps vs 60fps – The Magic of Story Telling Lies in Lower FPS, 30 FPS will always deliver a more “Cinematic” Experience than 60FPS.
I am of course making quite a bold claim and the burden of proof lies with me. One which i am more than willing to shoulder. Let me begin by saying that the minimum limit that our brain needs to perceive moving frames as a seamless entity ( a video) is 24 Frames Per Second. This is one of the reason 99% of Movies are shot at 24 FPS. Though this was originally due to Sound Hardware limitation of Old Cinema, it has now become the Cinematic Standard. The 24 fps of the Cinema Industry is roughly equivalent to the 30 fps standard of the Gaming Industry. When you see a video shot at 24 fps / 30 fps there are holes to fill and your brain automatically does this by literally creating stuff out of your imagination : also known as movie magic. The More frames you increase, the less you brain fills in, the less the “magic”.
Proof of Concept: Hobbit 24 FPS vs 48 FPS analogy to the 30FPS vs 60FPS Gaming Standard
So, Notice how the 48FPS video looks, Sped Up, Weird and almost too Real (in a Bad Way) ? That is called the Soap Opera Effect. Because we grew up in a world where reality tv and soap operas were shot at a higher FPS our brains are now hard wired to associate mundane reality with Higher FPS. And i think you can see now what i meant by our brain filling in the gaps at lower FPS. The Original trailer looks magical and truly “Cinematic”. Of course you might be one of the minority who actually like the sped up, but in my opinion that is probably because of the Novelty Value.
30fps vs 60fps
The more Frames Per Second we increase in our Gaming Standards the less “Magical” they will feel.
I remember when playing Alan Wake (at 30fps) that it felt unbelievably like a movie to me, the sudden attacks of darkness and the way everything was moving about, i wonder if the magic would have been there with 60FPS. If i could clearly see how everything moved – probably not. Likewise in Cinema the Smokes and Mirrors fall away with increased fps – and story telling is all about the illusion. Of course some games would actually benefit from higher frames per second like Racing Games and Fighting Games (Tekken) but Games in which story telling is a main part would do better with the 30FPS Standard.
http://wccftech.com/30fps-vs-60fps-30fps-better-story-telling-games/
All the peeps of the Gaming World have been going crazy over 30 FPS and 60 FPS standards this last year. From 60fps/1080p being thought the new Next Gen standard to Ryse downgrades. But there a point many people are missing, one which i hope to shed some light on today, the point that why 30 FPS cant and shouldn’t ever be replaced with 60fps.
30fps vs 60fps – The Magic of Story Telling Lies in Lower FPS, 30 FPS will always deliver a more “Cinematic” Experience than 60FPS.
I am of course making quite a bold claim and the burden of proof lies with me. One which i am more than willing to shoulder. Let me begin by saying that the minimum limit that our brain needs to perceive moving frames as a seamless entity ( a video) is 24 Frames Per Second. This is one of the reason 99% of Movies are shot at 24 FPS. Though this was originally due to Sound Hardware limitation of Old Cinema, it has now become the Cinematic Standard. The 24 fps of the Cinema Industry is roughly equivalent to the 30 fps standard of the Gaming Industry. When you see a video shot at 24 fps / 30 fps there are holes to fill and your brain automatically does this by literally creating stuff out of your imagination : also known as movie magic. The More frames you increase, the less you brain fills in, the less the “magic”.
Proof of Concept: Hobbit 24 FPS vs 48 FPS analogy to the 30FPS vs 60FPS Gaming Standard
So, Notice how the 48FPS video looks, Sped Up, Weird and almost too Real (in a Bad Way) ? That is called the Soap Opera Effect. Because we grew up in a world where reality tv and soap operas were shot at a higher FPS our brains are now hard wired to associate mundane reality with Higher FPS. And i think you can see now what i meant by our brain filling in the gaps at lower FPS. The Original trailer looks magical and truly “Cinematic”. Of course you might be one of the minority who actually like the sped up, but in my opinion that is probably because of the Novelty Value.
30fps vs 60fps
The more Frames Per Second we increase in our Gaming Standards the less “Magical” they will feel.
I remember when playing Alan Wake (at 30fps) that it felt unbelievably like a movie to me, the sudden attacks of darkness and the way everything was moving about, i wonder if the magic would have been there with 60FPS. If i could clearly see how everything moved – probably not. Likewise in Cinema the Smokes and Mirrors fall away with increased fps – and story telling is all about the illusion. Of course some games would actually benefit from higher frames per second like Racing Games and Fighting Games (Tekken) but Games in which story telling is a main part would do better with the 30FPS Standard.
http://wccftech.com/30fps-vs-60fps-30fps-better-story-telling-games/
can you people finally drop this "60fps is better" nonsense
justsomeguy
Member
But from what i understand from things people have written and my own expectation as a (non-game) developer the direct x 11.X overhead (ie the version optimised specifically for xbox) is nowhere near the overhead of direct x 11 on PC, as it only has to cater for one set of hardware?
Trent Strong
Banned
If there's a sharpening filter going on here, I don't see it.
When I first saw the gifs, I figured the xbox gif would be 30fps and the ps4 gif 60fps, but they look the same to me.
Acquiescence
Member
Welp, I'm surprised by this revelation. So much for that recent thread that stated both versions run at 30fps.
PS4 will not hold 1080p during the generation. People will have to live with lower resolutions, or play in PC only.
This needs to happen.
"30 fps is fine" needs to go away.
Im not saying 30fps is unplayable, but when the direction competition runs the same game better, why do that to yourself?
Edit:
oh... it happened!
It is clear that to most of us 30fps (stable) is perfectly acceptable. However, the fact that ps4 version runs at nearly 60 fps on average shows the potential for noticeable difference down that will crop up in titles. Evidently, if one is not tied down by the lure of ecosystem and/or voice command and/or multimedia feature set, PS4 is the console to own
And done.
BF4, Metal Gear Rising, Ninja Gaiden Sigma etc on all have unlocked framerate on consoles and yet get sold as 60fps titles. Apparently, it has become an issue now. Reality help us from people like Gies.
And done.
BF4, Metal Gear Rising, Ninja Gaiden Sigma etc on all have unlocked framerate on consoles and yet get sold as 60fps titles. Apparently, it has become an issue now. Reality help us from people like Gies.
you know we can almost write up a script for these events now.
1. News breaks that PS4 is demonstrably better at something thanks to its specs/developer environment
2. First 200 posts all "holy fucking shit", "dis gun be good" and on the other side "lazy devs" and "i dont really need to play this in 60 anyway, 30 is fine for this type of game."
3. Someone posts Arthur Gies twitter feed, where he predictably tries to downplay the entire thing while retaining an air of false objectivity
4. Major Nelson's Fun Facts
5. A billion people rightly bring up Albert Penello's 30% post and how he disrespected this community with his deceptions
7. People trying to pretend they're "skeptical" at the news until they hear it from a "better source" (which coincidentally never comes for them)
8. Then people move from trying to deny the news to pretending nobody will notice it or it's not really important for anything anyway. Semantics games all over the place.
9. 30+ other pages of photoshops and other such hilarity
Insert your own steps, it's a game
Well that's why i registered here obviously
If they look the same then whatever device you're on probably can't render the 60 fps one at full speed. The difference is pretty obvious.
That's a bold claim considering the hardware (due to the number of ROPs) is specifically designed for 1080p.
Trent Strong
Banned
Most of that's just in your head. Objectively there isn't that much of a difference between 720 and 1080.
Sir British
Banned
Or Tomb Raider: Balanced Edition.
For full disclosure, I should say that stable 30 fps are PERFECTLY FINE with me, even more so in TR kind of games. But it makes no effin sense to have an improved version, and a full price one, too, that lacks 1080p, 60fps or graphical improvements while at the same time having no added content. So yea, "acceptable edition".
really? this? You even use the word "objectively" here because you know your statement holds no worth.
At this point I assume you're joking. Or just blind. Which one is it?
Chobel
Member
Yes, just like you said before, in the future games, both versions will look almost identical just like NFS: Rivals, right?
lol, please tell me you're joking?
flying dutchman
Neo Member
Im gonna give this one a go on ps4. Im not overly surprised about the lack of frames on xb1.
Yet again the PS 4 is showing just how much more they can get out of a closed box with a low level API, compared to whats possible on PC with the same spec card. End of gen the PS4 is going to put out graphics and games not possible with anything like a 2 tflop pc rig.
Yet again the PS 4 is showing just how much more they can get out of a closed box with a low level API, compared to whats possible on PC with the same spec card. End of gen the PS4 is going to put out graphics and games not possible with anything like a 2 tflop pc rig.
Ha ha. Objectively will soon be the new "literally" with this kind of talk.
nelsonroyale
Member
Good. ACIV probably should have been 60 fps as well, but it is already pretty smooth. TR looks good but it is obviously still built on previous gen foundations.
you know we can almost write up a script for these events now.
1. News breaks that PS4 is demonstrably better at something thanks to its specs/developer environment
2. First 200 posts all "holy fucking shit", "dis gun be good" and on the other side "lazy devs" and "i dont really need to play this in 60 anyway, 30 is fine for this type of game."
3. Someone posts Arthur Gies twitter feed, where he predictably tries to downplay the entire thing while retaining an air of false objectivity
4. Major Nelson's Fun Facts
5. A billion people rightly bring up Albert Penello's 30% post and how he disrespected this community with his deceptions
7. People trying to pretend they're "skeptical" at the news until they hear it from a "better source" (which coincidentally never comes for them)
8. Then people move from trying to deny the news to pretending nobody will notice it or it's not really important for anything anyway. Semantics games all over the place.
9. 30+ other pages of photoshops and other such hilarity
Insert your own steps, it's a game
I think this is a template for the future - nay, the present.
"Objectively"
It's double the pixels. It's a considerable difference.
Loving Ami's table looking at my FB feed it almost perfectly describes the comments sections of the sites reporting it
you know we can almost write up a script for these events now.
1. News breaks that PS4 is demonstrably better at something thanks to its specs/developer environment
2. First 200 posts all "holy fucking shit", "dis gun be good" and on the other side "lazy devs" and "i dont really need to play this in 60 anyway, 30 is fine for this type of game."
3. Someone posts Arthur Gies twitter feed, where he predictably tries to downplay the entire thing while retaining an air of false objectivity
4. Major Nelson's Fun Facts
5. A billion people rightly bring up Albert Penello's 30% post and how he disrespected this community with his deceptions
7. People trying to pretend they're "skeptical" at the news until they hear it from a "better source" (which coincidentally never comes for them)
8. Then people move from trying to deny the news to pretending nobody will notice it or it's not really important for anything anyway. Semantics games all over the place.
9. 30+ other pages of photoshops and other such hilarity
10. Gaffers get banned
Insert your own steps, it's a game
Added one... in memory of mocoworm
Designed for 1080p at certain quality. Developers will raise the bar, they always do that.
Xbox One be weaker apparently makes people forget that PS4 specs are not that great.
symmetrical
Member
Probably a combination of the weaker gpu, slower ram, and 10% resource dedicated to kinect.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
This sort of reminds me of the WWE Smackdown 2008 situation on the PS3 vs the X360 version where the X360 version was 60fps and the PS3 version was around 15-20fps and I didn't know about it. I was shocked.
esRAM, DDR3, ACEs, TMUs, ROPS, OS overhead, you name it.
Nah I disagree . Resolution is a design choice and it seems it has been chosen to be stander for this gen.
Even for the xbone now. I will be happy if developers use the xbone as the target spec and have every game 60 fps on the ps4.
Stripper13
Member
And what might that be?
Even the 10% resource dedication doesn't hinder it that much. Unless I'm mistaken (and it's very possible that I am), the fact that Xbone is running at half the framerate despite having 'only' ~40% less shader power seems to indicate that there's a bottleneck somewhere else in Xbone that means you can't even get close to its theoretical best. That seems like it would be a pretty disastrous case of mis-engineering. ROPs/fillrate, possibly?
So can you list any PS3 or 360 games that ran at the same resolution as PS2 games of the previous gen? Yeah didn't think so. 1080p is a standard on the system that was designed specifically with 1080p in mind. Sorry but the vast majority of games on PS4 will be 1080p throughout the generation.
Are you serious? Games SHOULD be all about gamplay, you know, movies are an entirely different beast. 60 FPS benefits gameplay greatly:racegames, combos in action adventures, everything feels much more precice to navigate your character.
30FPSvs 60 FPS is NO CONTEST whatsoeverregarding games.
Alltough more and more games are trying to be ''movie blockbusters'', so in that sense you may be right.
You were being sarcastic; making fun of that article, right? Please tell me you were.
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