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Jarmel · Sep 4, 2011

eastmen said:
Yes but once again this isn't a single player game , there are going to be limitations .

You don't see me saying Kotor is flawed cause your friends can't play as the other characters in the group. Your complaining about the Genre of the game not the game itself

I'm asking you a simple question. What are the diffrent types of quests and which of those do SW TOR lack ?

I would be complaining about KOTOR if the story called for multiple people and you didn't have any. Like if there is supposed to be a big battle of Jedi or whatnot and it was only you and a couple of NPCs. There are definitely ways to

There are fetch stuff from this place quests, scanning objects or animals quests, killing certain amounts of enemies quests, rescue quests(which turn into killing the guy guarding prisoners), and escort quests which pretty much mean killing everything in front of you(no danger of NPCs dying). Most of the above have no light/dark decision attached.

What the game needs are more decision oriented quests such as the romance with the apprentices, things like getting infected by the rakghoul, and just more light/dark decisions in general.

eastmen said:
I've been playing RPGs and MMORPGs my whole life and its quite easy to see that all the quests can be boiled down to their base and you will see that they are very repeative in RPGs as well as MMORPGS.

I agree but it's painfully more obvious over x amount of hours after you do 5 quests in a row that involve killing mobs of enemies. One heroic quest that was 2 hours long was nonstop killing hordes.

eastmen said:
What level are you ? I think you will find that it plays more of a part as you become established with in the game.

How far have you gotten in the game , how do you know this isn't possible.

Level 25 on Nar Sha.

It's possible but I have seen nothing to the contrary yet.

eastmen said:
I can understand if you dislike the game and I can understand some things aren't what you expected. But you yourself say that you have a limited experiance with MMORPGs.

These are diffrent than RPGs and it souns like you want an RPG and I'm sorry to say this isn't one of them.

I've gotten to play the game alot and I'm lucky enough to have gotten on my gf's beta and I can say so far its a very well put together mmorpg and i'm having a lot of fun with it. Yes its an EQ clone (not a wow clone as that is a EQ clone to begin with ) but that isn't a bad part. A game with alot of story and yes this game has alot of story compared to other mmorpgs , can not be as free as a UO . A mmo will never have the in depth story lines with world changing situations that a single player will have.

Compared to other MMORPGS this game takes the story telling that EQ 2 tried and AOC advanced to a whole new level and it does have an extremely indepth story for a mmorpg.

Perhaps compared to RPGs its lacking in the story department. But you don't compare a racer to a rpg for story or a sports game to an fps for level design.

I'm glad you're happy, honestly I am. I'm just voicing my complaints so far.

gatti-man said:
Try sith. Im having a blast. Just murder and betray everyone lol.

Edit: Jarmel-so are you saying you are no longer buying tor? Or is this constructive criticisms you are just laying out and you still enjoy playing.

I heard the Sith are indeed better.

Honestly yes I'm going to buy it but I also bought Force Unleashed 2. I do somewhat enjoy the game but it just doesn't seem as good as it could have been.

Deadly · Sep 4, 2011

I really hope this is more of a stress test because the lag yesterday was HORRIBLE. If this is the current build (I hope it's not) then everyone expecting a release soon is crazies.

Oh and Bioware REALLY needs new cutscene animations. Ever since Mass Effect, we've seen the "blablalbalba" POINTS AT NPC move in every one of their game. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about :lol

Yaska · Sep 4, 2011

Deadly said:
I really hope this is more of a stress test because the lag yesterday was HORRIBLE. If this is the current build (I hope it's not) then everyone expecting a release soon is crazies.

Oh and Bioware REALLY needs new cutscene animations. Ever since Mass Effect, we've seen the "blablalbalba" POINTS AT NPC move in every one of their game. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about :lol

well it is a stress test. That's the whole point of the weekend test.

Sigfodr · Sep 4, 2011

Mendelevium said:
Level 12 as a bounty hunter. Will definitely buy at launch. game is everything I could expect, Still haven't got a helmet or seen a place to buy one. Space combat is great for getting XP and credits quickly. Dialogue is pretty much mass effect. The direction of photography could be better in some places, but not a big issue.

I have never played WoW, so I cant say how much is copied, but I shit you not. I found my self hitting F5 to save frequently. Forgetting the fact this is an MMO.

Thanks.

Ulchie · Sep 4, 2011

Fonds said:
I don't understand why people are complaining about developments in the MMO genre. It's one of the fastest evolving genres in the gaming industry.

Why not bash shooters? They've been doing the same thing since wolvenstein 3D.

I disagree. You can NOT tell me they haven't done new things since Wolfenstein 3D. Bloody ridiculous post. If anything, RPG's have stagnated even more than shooters if we're talking about the timeframe from Wolfenstein 3D to now. In fact, RPG's have only gotten more and more dumbed down, while for the most part, shooters have more features now than they used to.

Mr. Luchador · Sep 4, 2011

Everything was a doom clone for a decade after it's release! Until FPS started to be used instead.

Ulchie · Sep 4, 2011

Jarmel said:
Yes but it's sure as hell not KOTOR 3-10.

I agree I really didn't care either which is the problem. I was pretty apathetic to that scene and nothing has even come close to that.

The problem is consequence and the storyline essentially has none so far. Companions can't leave and you can buy their approval with gifts so who cares on that front. Nothing planetwide is going to happen because it would affect how you and other players could interact. For example on Taris, the Governor comments that your actions should reduce the rakghoul population and yet there is no visible change.

There's no bite to it.

Given the MMO limits, the only possible way to enforce these changes would be a massive scale phasing similar to what WoW has done in it's expansion packs but for every little thing. I personally wouldn't want there to be 10000 different little pockets of phased areas cause then I wouldn't bloody see anyone else. You're bitching about fundamental limitations of MMORPG's. Perhaps you can accept this genre isn't for you, and move on?

And yes, phasing is the only option. How ridiculous would it be to watch someone walk straight through a rakghoul that you have to fight?

Chriswok said:
Everything was a doom clone for a decade after it's release! Until FPS started to be used instead.

lol. See, I could do the same thing. I could say JRPG's haven't changed in a decade or two just because it's the genre I hate the most. I don't. I don't comment on JRPG's because I don't like them. Who am I to criticize what somebody else absolutely loves but that I never give the time of day? I can't get past the pointy haired emo shit, or the pasty white 12 year olds saving the world bullshit. I also HATE anime. It's not my thing, so other than what I just wrote, I don't comment about it. What I wrote is probably incredibly ignorant. That's why I stay out of threads about JRPG's; they serve no purpose for me.

You can't tell me that Wolfenstein and Arma 2 are the same game. The ONLY thing in common is the viewpoint. If you want to break something down to such a fundamental level, then no RPG's have changed since the very original. You have a character and you upgrade it. It's all the same, right? No, it's not.

Anyways, back on topic. Personally, I cancelled my SW:TOR preorder for a few reason. For one, I haven't seen anything truly compelling in videos I've watched. I also don't want to experience the launch 'growing pains' like I did with WoW. Not worth it to be there at the start. I'm also going into the 2nd year of a CS degree which just so happens to be the weedout year of the degree. I'm doing 5 course semesters while working 21 hours a week, so I don't have time for an MMO. So no, I'm not super hyped for this game, but I'm at least willing to give it a fair shot. Jarmel is bitching about fundamental technological limitations of MMO's. He doesn't even understand what it takes to make one, as he asserted earlier (this page or last) so who is he to say he has design ideas when he doesn't even know if they would fit in with the technology?

Gvaz · Sep 4, 2011

I've played tons of mmos and I love KOTOR (especially KOTOR2) but I find myself agreeing with Jarmel for the most part. For me it just feels like Bioware levels of lazy. Everyone uses the same skeleton and shared animations? Check. Child characters are just shrunken adult forms giving them weird proportions? Check. Found a sulustan that was as tall as my character and speaked galactic basic? Check. Inconsistent textures? Check. Character responses are poor? Check.

I mean it's good as a whole. I'd pay for a month, but for me I'm thinking more of "do I want to play this for a year?" and I can already see the end from here and there's not really anything that grips me.

Mr. Luchador · Sep 4, 2011

Ulchie, wasn't having a go! Just that when a genre defining title emerges, it often means we have to put up with comparisons for a decade

Personally, I think all games are very similar now anyway. I've hit the wall, and I'm only 27.

Iadien · Sep 4, 2011

Einbroch said:
WoW perfected them and evolved the idea. Pre-2004 we had EverQuest and UO, right? I don't recall instances in either. DAoC had them...in an expansion pack...in 2004. Battlegrounds? I don't think those existed before WoW. Pretty sure WoW invented two-faction gameplay in an MMO as well. Did these ideas exist? Yes. Were they in an MMO? No. I know it's cool to bash on WoW, but in 2004 it was pretty extraordinary. Still is, to be honest..

You're recalling wrong. EQ had instancing before WoW, LDoN expansion in 2003.

Moaradin said:
The item modifications in this game is one of the best innovative things I have seen in a MMO. Does not get the praise it deserves. It's a HUGE feature that definitely gets overlooked.

I wouldn't call that innovative. EQ2 has had appearance slots for years. Benefits of better gear, while looking the way that you want.

sykoex · Sep 4, 2011

Moaradin said:
The item modifications in this game is one of the best innovative things I have seen in a MMO. Does not get the praise it deserves. It's a HUGE feature that definitely gets overlooked.

How do the item mods work? Is that their analog for gems/enchants?

Gvaz · Sep 4, 2011

It allows you to keep the visuals of the gear while modifying it so it's better. Right now however it's broken as the base damage/armor/stats of the item doesn't increase (which defeats the purpose of upgrading it if it's just going to end up as a low level item with good mods)

Ulchie · Sep 4, 2011

Chriswok said:
Ulchie, wasn't having a go! Just that when a genre defining title emerges, it often means we have to put up with comparisons for a decade

Personally, I think all games are very similar now anyway. I've hit the wall, and I'm only 27.

Ya, I know. I was talking about the guy you were quoting. I knew you were being sarcastic. Guess I should've made that more clear.

Misfire · Sep 4, 2011

Einbroch said:
WoW perfected them and evolved the idea. Pre-2004 we had EverQuest and UO, right? I don't recall instances in either. DAoC had them...in an expansion pack...in 2004. Battlegrounds? I don't think those existed before WoW. Pretty sure WoW invented two-faction gameplay in an MMO as well. Did these ideas exist? Yes. Were they in an MMO? No. I know it's cool to bash on WoW, but in 2004 it was pretty extraordinary. Still is, to be honest.

Anarchy Online had instanced missions and two-faction* conflict when I played it--in 2003. I didn't start playing it until after the Notum Wars expansion was available, so it is possible that these features existed even earlier than that.

I don't wish to take anything away from Blizzard's success in the MMO genre, but these features did not originate with WoW.

* Three factions, if you include the neutrals.

Iadien · Sep 4, 2011

Misfire said:
Anarchy Online had instanced missions and two-faction* conflict when I played it--in 2003. I didn't start playing it until after the Notum Wars expansion was available, so it is possible that these features existed even earlier than that.

I don't wish to take anything away from Blizzard's success in the MMO genre, but these features did not originate with WoW.

* Three factions, if you include the neutrals.

Yeah, WoW gets far too much credit for bringing new ideas to MMOs. They brought a lot of people to the genre, so that's all that matters.

Meicyn · Sep 4, 2011

Those features definitely existed pre-2003. Instanced dungeons and faction-based PvP were at the very core of the game's design when Anarchy Online launched in mid-2001 (and it was the worst MMO launch in the history of the genre). The conflict between Clan (rebels) and Omni-Tek (corporation) was emphasized even in the game's original trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YKJM0vOroc

The very mentioning that World of Warcraft invented faction-based gameplay or instanced dungeons makes me laugh.

Reuenthal · Sep 4, 2011

The OP makes this sound pretty interesting, If only this wasn't a MMOG... I am not a fan of the MMOG game type. Oh well, maybe that could change.

CAW · Sep 4, 2011

Morn said:
Don't worry, that's why zones are instanced!

Not in the beta they aren't. Has Bioware said they will be at launch?

Stormwatch · Sep 4, 2011

Morn said:
Don't worry, that's why zones are instanced!

Wait, are they instanced?

Morn · Sep 4, 2011

CAW said:
Not in the beta they aren't. Has Bioware said they will be at launch?

They are too in beta...

And what's worse, if someone in another instance invites you to a group; you need to use up your Quick Travel (hearthstone) to get to them. That's just stupid.

LowParry · Sep 4, 2011

I don't see why people get their panties up in a bunch when someone speaks negative about a game. I like to hear both points of views from a game. Does it effect my purchase? No. I make that decision on my own. I like what I've read and seen of SW:ToR and will be playing a lot of this. This game isn't for everyone but that shouldn't exclude their opinion about the game from this thread. It keeps things interesting and to the point of keeping people's hype in check.

Carry on. -back to SF4AE-

Desaan · Sep 4, 2011

They have already spoken about having multiple instanced zones to avoid drama and a lot of the story based objectives are instanced/phased anyway.

CAW · Sep 4, 2011

Morn said:
They are too in beta...

Ah, I was thinking an instanced zone would mean I'd be in my own zone without other players unless they were in my group (like Guild Wars).

edit: if you're talking about being able to switch instances (like same server but difference phase or whatever - if that's what you mean), that's one thing. But there are two instances right now and both are quite populated. I don't know how many they'll have on launch but Aion did the same thing (with like 10 instances) and had the same kind of quests and it made no difference.

At the very least, they should just decrease spawn times during launch. Kind of like what Blizzard did during Cataclysm. Mobs and items required pretty much spawned instantly.

Morn · Sep 4, 2011

Desaan said:
They have already spoken about having multiple instanced zones to avoid drama and a lot of the story based objectives are instanced/phased anyway.

City of Heroes, Champions Online, and STO sucked partially because of the zone instancing. It kills the sense of community as much as a cross-realm dungeon finder does.

And if BioWare can't put up with "drama" in their game; they better get out of the MMO business and grow a thicker skin.

Baller. PhD · Sep 4, 2011

Yes they are. Instanced doesn't mean your own zone all to yourself. It means the zone is copied multiple times with the players distributed equally. Bring your Map up and you'll see you're on "Dromund Kaas 255" or w/e number you have. You can Quick Travel between the different versions but it uses your cooldown. It's a pain in the ass to get an entire group all in the same instance since everyone's cooldowns are on different timers. I hate it.

Desaan · Sep 4, 2011

Morn said:
City of Heroes, Champions Online, and STO sucked partially because of the zone instancing. It kills the sense of community as much as a cross-realm dungeon finder does.

And if BioWare can't put up with "drama" in their game; they better get out of the MMO business and grow a thicker skin.

What you have to remember though is it's just a tool they are using to ease early zone launch congestion, there really isn't a way around it and obviously could do with some tweaking. Hopefully the feedback they get from these September weekends will reinforce that.

Morn · Sep 4, 2011

CAW said:
At the very least, they should just decrease spawn times during launch. Kind of like what Blizzard did during Cataclysm. Mobs and items required pretty much spawned instantly.

World of Warcraft NEVER had instanced world zones. Ever. Not even during expansion launches.

Blizzards coders were smart enough to code the mob spawns to scale based on zone population. The more people in a zone, the faster mobs will respawn.

FieryBalrog · Sep 4, 2011

Moaradin said:
The item modifications in this game is one of the best innovative things I have seen in a MMO. Does not get the praise it deserves. It's a HUGE feature that definitely gets overlooked.

It's functionally an appearance tab. Cool yes, but not exactly hugely innovative.

CAW · Sep 4, 2011

Morn said:
World of Warcraft NEVER had instanced world zones. Ever. Not even during expansion launches.

I never said it did. I said the spawning time were decreased for certain mobs and items so that the rush of people could do the same quests without having to sit and wait.

And like I said before, instances don't fix the issue of certain quest types. I went through the same deal with Aion, which had like 10+ instances. I bounced around multiple instances and all were over-packed with the same issues.

FieryBalrog · Sep 4, 2011

Last Hearth said:
I think with any game after a while the loudest voices you hear are going to be the negative ones, because people who like the game are only going to say they like it for so many times before they get tired of saying it, but people who want to knock a game seem to never get tired of being negative. This is why games like MGS4 and ME2 are praised when they come out but now if you want to start a discussion about those game all your hear are from the bashers, and it creates this illusion that everybody hated those games.

The same is going on here is claims about how after some initial positivity now the testing forums are getting negative. It's getting negative because the negative people are much more persistent in declaring their negativity. Just like this thread.

Beta forums and threads are usually overflowing with positivity and fanboy excess, so it's the complete opposite of what you describe. You only have to follow the beta and launch of FFXIV/Warhammer/Age of Conan/Aion to see for yourself.

Fanboys shout down those who critique the game or offer valid testing feedback and the developers end up encouraging it as being human, they'd rather hear what they want to hear.

Morn · Sep 4, 2011

FieryBalrog said:
Beta forums and threads are usually overflowing with positivity and fanboy excess, so it's the complete opposite of what you describe. You only have to follow the beta and launch of FFXIV/Warhammer/Age of Conan/Aion to see for yourself.

Exactly. The TOR beta is so bad people are afraid to post ANY sort of negative feedback because of the fanboys who will spam hate their feedback thread.

Baller. PhD · Sep 4, 2011

CAW said:
And like I said before, instances don't fix the issue of certain quest types. I went through the same deal with Aion, which had like 10+ instances. I bounced around multiple instances and all were over-packed with the same issues.

Welcome to MMO's? Even with WoW's respawn timers zones the starting zones were still overrun with people during launch weeks. I remember waiting around for a book to respawn with 30 other players next to me doing the same thing. It was a mad rush of right-click whenever the damn thing popped. You simply can't stop a large group of players from being in the same zone during a launch. That's like telling water not to be wet. It's a launch. There's going to be a shitload of new players. Even with instanced zones... the instances fill up. You want some magical fairy wonder system that doesn't exist.

The actual solution to your problem is to take a sick day and just powerlevel past the riff-raff on the day the servers open.

Morn · Sep 4, 2011

Baller said:
Welcome to MMO's? Even with WoW's respawn timers zones the starting zones were still overrun with people during launch weeks. I remember waiting around for a book to respawn with 30 other players next to me doing the same thing. It was a mad rush of right-click whenever the damn thing popped. You simply can't stop a large group of players from being in the same zone during a launch. That's like telling water not to be wet. It's a launch. There's going to be a shitload of new players. Even with instanced zones... the instances fill up. You want some magical fairy wonder system that doesn't exist.

The actual solution to your problem is to take a sick day and just powerlevel past the riff-raff on the day the servers open.

WoW hasn't been like that since around BC. That's why they put in the improved spawning code. WoTLK and Cata had none of those problems at launch.

gatti-man · Sep 4, 2011

Morn said:
They are too in beta...

And what's worse, if someone in another instance invites you to a group; you need to use up your Quick Travel (hearthstone) to get to them. That's just stupid.

Instancing doesn't bother me but the hearthstone bit is pure shit that needs to be fixed

CAW · Sep 4, 2011

I've played WoW and a lot of other MMO games, I'm not new to the genre. Basically my point is why do we need quests like this in the first place? Why should we have to sit around and wait for a ridiculous respawn timer with a very limited amount of items? Why can't it just be looted without disappearing for other players?

And I'm not trying to get things easier. For one, I traveled and fought my way to the items. I just don't like standing around and having to be the quicker clicker against a bunch of other players. I'd sooner just abandon the quest (assuming it's not a main quest) and be on my way but what sucks with that is the XP/reward I won't be getting for completing said quest(s).

mikeGFG · Sep 4, 2011

Morn said:
WoW hasn't been like that since around BC. That's why they put in the improved spawning code. WoTLK and Cata had none of those problems at launch.

literally the first quest in cataclysm is trying to open a giant clam before sixty other people do.

Ferny · Sep 4, 2011

What in the hell is going on here?! lol

HarryDemeanor · Sep 4, 2011

Ferny73 said:
What in the hell is going on here?! lol

I don't know.

gatti-man · Sep 4, 2011

CAW said:
I've played WoW and a lot of other MMO games, I'm not new to the genre. Basically my point is why do we need quests like this in the first place? Why should we have to sit around and wait for a ridiculous respawn timer with a very limited amount of items? Why can't it just be looted without disappearing for other players?

And I'm not trying to get things easier. For one, I traveled and fought my way to the items. I just don't like standing around and having to be the quicker clicker against a bunch of other players. I'd sooner just abandon the quest (assuming it's not a main quest) and be on my way but what sucks with that is the XP/reward I won't be getting for completing said quest(s).

Haven't run into the respawn issue at all in tor besides in the very first quest of the game lol

Yaska · Sep 4, 2011

HarryDemeanor said:
I don't know.

It's like this topic is turning into official SWTOR forums! O_O

eastmen · Sep 4, 2011

Einbroch said:
WoW perfected them and evolved the idea. Pre-2004 we had EverQuest and UO, right? I don't recall instances in either. DAoC had them...in an expansion pack...in 2004. Battlegrounds? I don't think those existed before WoW. Pretty sure WoW invented two-faction gameplay in an MMO as well. Did these ideas exist? Yes. Were they in an MMO? No. I know it's cool to bash on WoW, but in 2004 it was pretty extraordinary. Still is, to be honest.

In regards to what we can do in games today, I don't need to list examples. If you honestly can say that in 2001 you were like "Yep, in 10 years I can play a game, on my home console, where it's single player but I can infiltrate another player's game from 2000 miles away and duel him before going back to my single player game (Demon's Souls)" then you're one special person.

Kintaro, I'm not a PC gamer at all. My PC is an internet machine. Netflix, websites, and MMOs.

City of Heroes came out in April of 2004 , EQ2 came out the same month as WOW , eq1 got it in the early 2000s , Runescape ,

ULtima online introduced Factions in 2000 and most likely had the first battle grounds type of game play , except we called it tramel.

HOWEVER THE REALM BACK IN 1996 WAS THE FIRST MMORPG TO USE INSTANCING .

See that , almost a decade before WOW there was a game that used instancing and used it extremely well .

I'm not sure what your saying. I used to play Doom online with friends half way across the world back in 2003.

As for Consoles , I bought a dreamcast back in 1999 on Sept 9th so what 12 years ago and it had online out of the box.

The sega saturn had a modem that let me play online games and I think that was 1996 or 97 .

And the atari also had a modem and teleplay modem worked on the nes , genesis and snes .

THe games we are playing now are the same games people have been playing since the 70s . The biggest change we've had is the move to 3d games , however even that happened in the early 90s on the pc and we have only made baby steps from it since.

Battlefield 3 is nto very diffrent than Quake.

eastmen · Sep 4, 2011

Jarmel said:
I would be complaining about KOTOR if the story called for multiple people and you didn't have any. Like if there is supposed to be a big battle of Jedi or whatnot and it was only you and a couple of NPCs. There are definitely ways to

But your not complaining that KOTOR isn't a MMORPG . So why complain about TOR not being a RPG ? Do you complain that Battlefield isn't a RPG ? OR an RTS ?

There are fetch stuff from this place quests, scanning objects or animals quests, killing certain amounts of enemies quests, rescue quests(which turn into killing the guy guarding prisoners), and escort quests which pretty much mean killing everything in front of you(no danger of NPCs dying). Most of the above have no light/dark decision attached.

What the game needs are more decision oriented quests such as the romance with the apprentices, things like getting infected by the rakghoul, and just more light/dark decisions in general.

At level 25 your still pretty low in the game. Aside from that i've never had a Romance quest in any RPG . Typicaly RPG romances come down to talking to the other character and thats it.

Your complaints don't really have much merit .

I agree but it's painfully more obvious over x amount of hours after you do 5 quests in a row that involve killing mobs of enemies. One heroic quest that was 2 hours long was nonstop killing hordes.

There are only so many types of quests , any game you play over x amount of hours is going to get repetitve , its the nature of the genre and it affects every type of game. There isn't much you can do about it.

Level 25 on Nar Sha.

It's possible but I have seen nothing to the contrary yet.

I'm glad you're happy, honestly I am. I'm just voicing my complaints so far.

I heard the Sith are indeed better.

Honestly yes I'm going to buy it but I also bought Force Unleashed 2. I do somewhat enjoy the game but it just doesn't seem as good as it could have been.

I think your wants aren't going to line up with whats possible in the genre. This isn't a single player game

FieryBalrog · Sep 4, 2011

Saying something sticks slavishly to genre conventions, and that those conventions are outdated or stale by this point, is a valid criticism, Mr. eastmen.

weekendCONFIRMED · Sep 4, 2011

Disgusts me to hear that yet another "MMO" goes zone-instanced. As an oldschool MMO player, this just makes me sick.

If you can be standing in one spot in a zone/world, and another person/your friend in the same spot, yet not see each other -- something is wrong with your MMO. That's not seamless, that's not massive -- that's not immersion.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect any different -- I just hate how that's the new trend, and I hate how apologetic gamers get about it.

Dinosaur Tamer · Sep 4, 2011

weekendCONFIRMED said:
Disgusts me to hear that yet another "MMO" goes zone-instanced. As an oldschool MMO player, this just makes me sick.

If you can be standing in one spot in a zone/world, and another person/your friend in the same spot, yet not see each other -- something is wrong with your MMO. That's not seamless, that's not massive -- that's not immersion.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect any different -- I just hate how that's the new trend, and I hate how apologetic gamers get about it.

Just to put this into context, because people tend to conveniently forget this important piece of information when talking about sharding and instances. Bioware confirmed sharding zones is something they can technically do and are currently testing in beta, but it is not something they are planning to do all the time. In fact, as of a few weeks ago they don't expect to do any sharding outside of the very crowded first few days at launch, if at all.

Morn · Sep 4, 2011

Dinosaur Tamer said:
Just to put this into context, because people tend to conveniently forget this important piece of information when talking about sharding and instances. Bioware confirmed sharding zones is something they can technically do and are currently testing in beta, but it is not something they are planning to do all the time. In fact, as of a few weeks ago they don't expect to do any sharding outside of the very crowded first few days at launch, if at all.

They'll be doing instancing forever, the "just testing!" stuff is BS.

AzureNightmare · Sep 4, 2011

weekendCONFIRMED said:
Disgusts me to hear that yet another "MMO" goes zone-instanced. As an oldschool MMO player, this just makes me sick.

If you can be standing in one spot in a zone/world, and another person/your friend in the same spot, yet not see each other -- something is wrong with your MMO. That's not seamless, that's not massive -- that's not immersion.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect any different -- I just hate how that's the new trend, and I hate how apologetic gamers get about it.

I'm none too thrilled about it either, but I'm not gonna let it get to me either.

Jarmel · Sep 4, 2011

gatti-man said:
Haven't run into the respawn issue at all in tor besides in the very first quest of the game lol

Then you haven't gotten that far. Respawn issues are a very serious problem so far in the beta.

I'll hold off on more impressions till I'm further in the game.

Giolon · Sep 4, 2011

weekendCONFIRMED said:
Disgusts me to hear that yet another "MMO" goes zone-instanced. As an oldschool MMO player, this just makes me sick.

If you can be standing in one spot in a zone/world, and another person/your friend in the same spot, yet not see each other -- something is wrong with your MMO. That's not seamless, that's not massive -- that's not immersion.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect any different -- I just hate how that's the new trend, and I hate how apologetic gamers get about it.

I'd much rather take this concession over having 1000 players all in the same spot, fighting over the same quest mob or object spawn. Look at WoW's recent expansion launches and the effect that has on the new zones - 1000s of players all in the same spot fighting over the same mobs. Blizz has to turn respawns up to LUDICROUS SPEED! to try to balance the effect of that many people - in turn creating a nightmare situation if you happen to be soloing slightly out of the main population pack: enemies that respawn faster than you can kill them.

As long as they have a reasonable, reliable, way to get into the same instance as your friends, I don't have a problem with this mechanic.

However, I do think that its use should be avoided in capital cities and other locations where a high density of players doesn't cause more problems than just some lag or framerate slowdowns. People come to these places to meet and interact with lots of other people. Having them be deserted is a downer.

weekendCONFIRMED · Sep 4, 2011

Morn said:
They'll be doing instancing forever, the "just testing!" stuff is BS.

I kind of believe this.

But then again, it may just be for the starting areas, like Rift did. Rift did it phenomenally because of how it was hidden (you didn't even realize it because it was part of the story, in a sense).

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