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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro

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D

Dahbomb

Member
Warriors, Hunters and even Rogues running Finja on Ladder
Click to expand...
Xanathus was right all along! Maybe... we'll see.

Anyway I won that HS tournament. I played most games with the Renolock as it was LMS format, the deck went like 8-2. I had teched in Eater of Secrets to counter the Reno Mages but that ended up not being a factor, I lost/won despite it being used.

The Jade Midrange Shaman was undefeated though and the game's weren't even close because the other player failed to have the board wipe answer on time. Had a 30 minute+ Reno Mage vs Renolock game going down to final few cards followed by a Shaman game that was over by turn 7.
 
S

scarlet

Member
Beat miracoli with aggro shaman. He added me. I thought maybe he was nice.

I approved and then he said "enjoy your BMing before the nerf asshole."

Nerf? I was like, I only play STB and he played STB, drake and conceal.

Weirdo...
 
M

manhack

Member
Losing to Jade Druid as aggro Shaman. Feels like I failed everyone.

Also a good Jade Druid draw is still some disgusting bullshit.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
squidyj said:
it was a ban format? how many times did shaman get to play?
Click to expand...
Last hero standing. People didn't ban Shaman because they for the most part brought extremely anti aggro line ups. So you had a lot of Reno decks, Control Warriors, Control Paladin etc. People generally saw that I had Druid in my line up and banned that because otherwise the Druid would've swept them. First day I had brought Warrior and people banned that thinking it was Pirate Warrior. Second day I had Warlock, Mage, Shaman and Druid. Shaman was only banned in one of my matches.

Generally almost every match played out the same way. I started out with Renolock and either swept them with it or they beat it and then I brought out the Shaman. One time instead of bringing out the Shaman I brought out the Druid because Shaman was banned and that was Druid against Reno Mage which was a free win.

I think I played Shaman like 3 times. It was usually brought out when it was like 2-1 in my favor.


Here's how the matches played out individually:

First match: My Renolock swept his full Dragon line up. Dragon Paladin, Dragon Priest and Dragon Warrior. This guy was a dragon fan obviously lol. The Paladin match was the toughest because he had the greediest Paladin Dragon deck ever with that new Deathwing.

Second match: Renolock swept again. He had Reno Mage, Control Warrior and Reno Priest... all of which was super anti aggro.

Third match: This was my toughest match up because IMO this guy was probably the top 3 best player there. I banned his Shaman and he banned my Warrior. I won against his Renolock and Reno Mage with my Renolock. His Jade Druid beat my Renolock and Reno Mage. This set had a crazy 30 HP kill on my Renolock with his Druid because he got double Savage Roars off of Discovers from Idol. My Shaman ended up beating his Druid pretty easily because he didn't have a single swipe in his top half of the deck.

Fourth match (this is day 2 so I have a new line up with Jade Druid): Played against a crazy Rogue player who killed my Warlock from 28 HP first game after which I scummed with Shaman. I won with Reno Warlock against his Control Warrior and Reno Mage initially.

Fifth match: This was a tough one. He had Reno Mage (burn variant), Anyfin Paladin, Shaman (which I banned) and Reno Warlock, he banned my Druid. I won the Renolock mirror and beat his Anyfin Paladin (this match I killed him from 28 HP by getting a PO discover and then Emperor ticking the full combo), he beat my Renolock with Reno Mage by getting a 22 damage combo assembled through Cabalist Tome fuckery (double Ice Lances). My Shaman then cleaned up.

Final match: This guy had 3 aggro decks and a Reno Mage, I had to ban his Rogue he banned my Shaman. I didn't know what he was playing because otherwise I would have started Reno Mage but Reno Warlock ended up winning until the end (so Reno Mage and the Shaman) when it was his Pirate Warrior left and then my Reno Mage finished the game by beating his final Pirate Warrior.
 
G

Glass Shark

Banned
man being at rank 20 after playing 200+ games this month is really super fun and great

I climbed a lot playing Pirate Warrior but then I got tired of it and refused to play it or Aggro Shaman and here I am just losing to the most random shit

I can't wait for the ladder floors
 
M

manhack

Member
jrh2 said:
man being at rank 20 after playing 200+ games this month is really super fun and great

I climbed a lot playing Pirate Warrior but then I got tired of it and refused to play it or Aggro Shaman and here I am just losing to the most random shit

I can't wait for the ladder floors
Click to expand...

Pirate Warrior and Aggro Shaman lose just as much to random shit and good draws from other decks.

I think this might be the worst time to ladder quickly that I've ever seen, though. Either pick a top tier deck and grind away or pick a middle tier deck and grind even harder.

I used to be able to put together janky decks and still make some decent progress as long as I put in the games. SO much harder now.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Probably going to be the first month I don't hit rank 5. I just can't deal with the aggro anymore.

God only knows how something like this gets past the "testers." We have aggro decks with brokenly overpowered minions and insane amounts of burn. Shit just isn't fun anymore.
 
S

squidyj

Member
lol i forgot to put swipe in my latest druid deck, i was winning games but I went one game like "swipe's in the bottom of my deck if I can just get swipe, oh my god bottom 4 cards it's so unlucky that I haven't found a swipe"
 
K

Keyser Soze

Member
I think I am done...

jqvs4Am.jpg
Click to expand...

That was my most played Brawl ever
 
M

manhack

Member
BananasWithGuns said:
Probably going to be the first month I don't hit rank 5. I just can't deal with the aggro anymore.

God only knows how something like this gets past the "testers." We have aggro decks with brokenly overpowered minions and insane amounts of burn. Shit just isn't fun anymore.
Click to expand...


While I agree that aggro Shaman and Pirate warrior are too strong, and Team 5 agrees, I disagree that laddering efficiently has anything to do with aggro being too strong. I think it has more to do with the meta being too boxed into certain decks. Especially decks that go all in their gameplans. Reno, Kazakus, Jade, Miracle Rogue and even aggro with patches all seem like all in decks that draw the nuts or get stomped. It doesn't help that Paladin and Hunter are basically non-existent due to grimy goons being terrible.

I've been playing Aggro Shaman and Pirate warrior this weekend since I haven't played them in a long time and I thought it would be interesting.

Plus they are tier 1 so I should be flying up the ranks right? Not at all. In fact it has been quite a slog. I win and lose against all kinds of decks: jade druide, reno warlock, reno mage, rogue and of course warrior and shaman.

Right now it feels like I could probably have played my beneath the grounds rogue and ranked up just as quickly.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
I mean, it's less to do with increasing in ranks efficiently and more about just not getting any enjoyment out of this meta. And since I said that I switched to dragon Warrior and won 4 straight. Pretty gross.

Also I really need to clear this 80 gold quest. BananasWGuns#1521 on NA whoever wants it.

Edit: Gone.
 
E

Eddie Bax

Member
I was trying to squeeze in a few brawl games and experiment with some things before it goes away for the week, but all the Paladins have made me rethink that. If I wanted to watch someone play with themselves, I'd go to a porn site.
 
M

manhack

Member
ok finally hit rank 5. that was my goal for the weekend, so i guess that is an accomplishment.

Hard to find a groove in this meta. Played Rogue, Shaman and Warrior from about rank 12 starting Friday.

Rogue went the best from pure percentage points, but felt a little weak, I must of had a bad losing streak that set me off.

Went for Face Warrior and it went badly. Under 50% over 30 games lol.

Finally settled on Shaman, but played a few different variations, but all of them did fairly well. 56% winrate over around 90 games, so I guess that is pretty strong, but nothing too crazy.

I mostly forced myself to get to rank 5 because I have been a little unsettled by the meta, but couldn't say from experience what was bothering me. I think my thoughts in a previoius post cover it pretty well.

Anyway I wish the floors were in then I could play meme deck at Rank 5 to screw with everyone. Oh well.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
Eddie Bax said:
I was trying to squeeze in a few brawl games and experiment with some things before it goes away for the week, but all the Paladins have made me rethink that. If I wanted to watch someone play with themselves, I'd go to a porn site.
Click to expand...

Isn't that what this brawl is supposed to be? Either way it's better than the completely standard pirate warrior deck I saw someone use.
 
F

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Dahbomb said:
Xanathus was right all along! Maybe... we'll see.

Anyway I won that HS tournament. I played most games with the Renolock as it was LMS format, the deck went like 8-2. I had teched in Eater of Secrets to counter the Reno Mages but that ended up not being a factor, I lost/won despite it being used.

The Jade Midrange Shaman was undefeated though and the game's weren't even close because the other player failed to have the board wipe answer on time. Had a 30 minute+ Reno Mage vs Renolock game going down to final few cards followed by a Shaman game that was over by turn 7.
Click to expand...

Congrats man!!
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
Dr.Horrible said:
OK, so you can attack with your current weapon and then equip Fool's Bane and attack again? Doesn't seem right.
Click to expand...

works that way with doomhammer/any windfury weapon (can't remember if there exists any other weapons but it makes sense, if you windfury a minion after it attacks it lets you attack twice with it)
 
L

luoapp

Member
Dahbomb said:
Anyway I won that HS tournament. I played most games with the Renolock as it was LMS format, the deck went like 8-2. I had teched in Eater of Secrets to counter the Reno Mages but that ended up not being a factor, I lost/won despite it being used.
Click to expand...

Congrats! The card review streams were pretty fun!
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
SonicXtreme said:
works that way with doomhammer/any windfury weapon (can't remember if there exists any other weapons but it makes sense, if you windfury a minion after it attacks it lets you attack twice with it)
Click to expand...

It's a little odd that the windfury tag is for your hero, not the weapon. It's not like deathrattle weapons are for your hero dieing.
 
S

Szadek

Member
Don't worry guys, soon this nerf will comes and with it a savior will arrive to save you from the oppression by the pirat warrior and pirat shamans.

His name is
Midrange Shaman!

With this I unsub again.
I might come back when the next expansion comes out.
To this thread I mean, not the game.
 
F

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Szadek said:
Don't worry guys, soon this nerf will comes and with it a savior will arrive to save you from the oppression by the pirat warrior and pirat shamans.

His name is
Midrange Shaman!

With this I unsub again.
I might come back when the next expansion comes out.
To this thread I mean, not the game.
Click to expand...
#RIP Szadek, see yah soon bud!

ZealousD said:
Seriously though, Maelstrom Portal probably needs a nerf.
Click to expand...
Yup and Jade Lighting should target only minions. (Ok, maybe im goin' a bit too ham)

After the STB and Claw nerfs, i think that Shaman will still be the best class in the game.
Hopefully im mistaken and we dont have to wait til the next expansion for a better meta.

The ranked ladder change should also help a bit.
 
P

Pooya

Member
SI7 agent used to be like the highest early game tempo play for the class that was designed to be best the tempo class....

then they decided everyone is going to play tempo curve decks.. here have a 3/3 that deals 1 dmg to everything, activates a lot of things for you, it doesn't need combo to work...

No good enough? have a average 2/1 stats that deals as much dmg as there are enemy dudes on board for one less mana, oh btw it deals 2x damage if you roll totem 1 in 4. poor agent got powercreeped hard.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Fersis said:
Yup and Jade Lighting should target only minions. (Ok, maybe im goin' a bit too ham)
Click to expand...

Honestly that's perfectly fine with me. Jade Lightning is one of the most efficient Jade cards in the game. A new golem is usually valued at 1.5 or 2 mana and Jade Lightning values it at 1 mana.

The Lamonster said:
Can someone recommend a really strong OP deck that I can play with before the next expansion hits and everything changes?
Click to expand...

Go to Wild and play Pirate Hunter. My record is 16-3 with that deck.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
Maelstrom Portal doesn't need a nerf, every other AOE in the game needs a buff. The only problem with that card is it's surrounded by tier 1 aggro cards.

Part of the problem since the HS expansions started has been the undercosted hard removal and the overcosted AOE. Playing multiple smaller minions is almost always stronger than playing one big minion unless that minion does something right away.

Imagine if every hard removal card in the game got the same nerf as Execute, and every AOE got bumped by one mana. You still have the ability to remove big cards, but don't get the huge tempo gain of using 3-4 mana to kill an 7-8 mana card.

Big cards that don't necessarily do something the turn they are played are now not hot-garbage and rushing people down with 1 drops doesn't work anymore.
 
F

FiveSix4Three

Member
Sheroking said:
Maelstrom Portal doesn't need a nerf, every other AOE in the game needs a buff. The only problem with that card is it's surrounded by tier 1 aggro cards.

Part of the problem since the HS expansions started has been the undercosted hard removal and the overcosted AOE. Playing multiple smaller minions is almost always stronger than playing one big minion unless that minion does something right away.

Imagine if every hard removal card in the game got the same nerf as Execute, and every AOE got bumped by one mana. You still have the ability to remove big cards, but don't get the huge tempo gain of using 3-4 mana to kill an 7-8 mana card.

Big cards that don't necessarily do something the turn they are played are now not hot-garbage and rushing people down with 1 drops doesn't work anymore.
Click to expand...

I'm on board with this.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Maelstrom Portal should be a symmetrical board clear. Then it's appropriate for its cost and isn't slotted into Aggro Shaman to bully other aggro decks like Zoolock and Hunter.

I don't think Blizzard is going to buff existing AOE, that would be too much. They just have to print more AOE for non Kabal classes while making minions that aren't as resilient to AOEs. Kabal classes got some good AOE options in MSG but everyone except maybe Warrior was left out in the dust.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
The Lamonster said:
This looks fun, I assume you're talking about this deck? http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/699346-wild-pirate-hunter-w-guide
Click to expand...

This goes full ham on the pirate package. That's not why I do. My list is basically hybrid hunter but with the early game pirate package.

2x Alley Cat
2x Small-Time Buccaneer
2x Southsea Deckhand
1x Patches
2x Haunted Creeper
2x Kindly Grandmother
2x Mad Scientist
2x Glaivezooka
2x Freezing Trap
1x Cat Trick
2x Animal Companion
2x Eaglehorn Bow
2x Unleash the Hounds
2x Kill Command
1x Barnes
2x Piloted Shredder
2x Savannah Highmane
1x Dr Boom

Edit: Whoops, posted a 32-card list by accident. I can't remember if I cut the deckhands or the haunted creepers. Maybe 1 of each? Trying to build it from memory.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
That Hunter deck looks disgusting. Thank god we don't have Glaivezooka or else standard woukd have yet another Patches deck to deal with.
 
M

manhack

Member
Well if aggro is toned down in the next patch and Jade Druid starts to pop up more often, which I think it will, then I have some hopes that buff paladin might come in to save the day.

I imagine the original intent of Grimy Goons was to be the anti-Jade mechanic. At least that was my impression during the early days of MSoG. I played a ton of Jade Druid and Buff Paladin at the start and it really felt like Grimy Goons buffs were super strong against Druid. By the time they ramped up Jades you were already throwing out big threats.

Of course Pirates and Kazakus killed the Goons I think it would be great if they could make a comeback. I think Kibler even hit rank 5 with a version of Buff Paladin he was running so it isn't like the concept is unplayable.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Aggro hasn't been toned down. Pirates have been toned down. If anything, this change benefits aggro more than anything. Hunter and Zoo might actually be able to compete, now.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Abyssal Enforcer has now tied with Muster for Battle for the best card in Arena. 130 points versus Dr Boom (the next best card) at 126.

Kabal Talonpriest ties with Tirion at 120 for the 3rd spot.
 
M

manhack

Member
I was watching Zalae testing out a Water Hunter (Hunter with Finja, Warleader, Bluegill package).

I didn't see his exact list, so made my own version and it is a lot of fun. Definitely excited to see if this can cut it in the post nerf meta.

You can definitely see where having Small Time Buccaneer as a 1/1 is going to change the early game dynamics.

Still not sure how to build around the murloc package, but not trying to get to upset over losing to shaman or face warrior at this point.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
How good is the Pirates package?

Turns out pretty good and better than Tunnel Trogg.

The first thing you should notice is that those base win rates are pretty high – it's the best deck in the game, after all. The win rate difference between drawing Patches vs. getting him out of the cannon going first is 22.6%! On the coin, it's an 18% difference.

When it comes to 1 drops, this is the only deck we looked at where we picked a non-pirate 1 drop as a reference – good old Tunnel Trogg, which is one of the most powerful one drops in the history of the game. According to this data, Trogg is not as powerful as Small-Time Buccaneer, which should tell us a lot. Small-Time will get you an increase of between 6.4% and 8.8% in win rate while Tunnel Trogg will be about 5% to 6.6%. Having a 1 drop is very important going first and will net a 12.8% increase, but going second our data only accounts for about a 6.15% increase. This is likely because Aggro Shaman has very powerful 2-drops it can coin out on turn 1 to shore up its curve.
Click to expand...
 
B

bangbang i'm a timpani

Banned
Dahbomb said:
Xanathus was right all along! Maybe... we'll see.

Anyway I won that HS tournament. I played most games with the Renolock as it was LMS format, the deck went like 8-2. I had teched in Eater of Secrets to counter the Reno Mages but that ended up not being a factor, I lost/won despite it being used.

The Jade Midrange Shaman was undefeated though and the game's weren't even close because the other player failed to have the board wipe answer on time. Had a 30 minute+ Reno Mage vs Renolock game going down to final few cards followed by a Shaman game that was over by turn 7.
Click to expand...

can you post your renolock decklist?
 
Q

quackamole

Member
manhack said:
Losing to Jade Druid as aggro Shaman. Feels like I failed everyone.

Also a good Jade Druid draw is still some disgusting bullshit.
Click to expand...

Sure but that kinda applies to most decks. A good zoo with a godly hand who vomits their entire hand twice over by turn 5 is also unstoppable.

As a recently started jade druid player, you have no idea how many times I get fucked by the opening hand for not having a good curve. Jade druid have no recovery, once I get behind I might as well concede.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
bangbang i'm a timpani said:
can you post your renolock decklist?
Click to expand...
Mistress of Mixtures
Mortal Coil
Power Overwhelming
Swamp Ooze
Dark Peddler
Dirty Rat
Doomsayer
Brann
Demonwrath
Farseer
Mindcontrol Tech
Shadow Bolt
Blastcrystal Potion
Defender of Argus
Eater of Secrets
Hellfire
Kazakus
Refreshment Vendor
Shadowflame
Twilight Guardian
Faceless Manipulator
Leeroy Jenkins
Second Rate Bruiser
Emperor Thaurissan
Reno Jackson
Siphon Soul
Sylvanas
Abyssal Enforcer
Twisting Nether
Jaraxxus


Eater of Secrets was my personal tech choice for the tournament as everyone had Reno Mage. It didn't really work out to be honest, I won the matches without that card being a factor. Like yeah I got to break Ice Blocks but those matches I had won anyway. Another game I broke Ice Block but still lost so definitely cut that for ladder play. I would just replace that with Mountain Giant if you expect some Druids. The deck was generally made to be good across the board versus being good against certain decks (the combo package allows wins against the mirror and other control decks. Eater of Secrets for Reno Mage, big board clears for the midrange/Jade decks, anti aggro tools for the Pirates).

If you want more in depth explanation about individual card choices or exclusions then I would be happy to talk about it.
 
B

bangbang i'm a timpani

Banned
Dahbomb said:
Mistress of Mixtures
Mortal Coil
Power Overwhelming
Swamp Ooze
Dark Peddler
Dirty Rat
Doomsayer
Brann
Demonwrath
Farseer
Mindcontrol Tech
Shadow Bolt
Blastcrystal Potion
Defender of Argus
Eater of Secrets
Hellfire
Kazakus
Refreshment Vendor
Shadowflame
Twilight Guardian
Faceless Manipulator
Leeroy Jenkins
Second Rate Bruiser
Emperor Thaurissan
Reno Jackson
Siphon Soul
Sylvanas
Abyssal Enforcer
Twisting Nether
Jaraxxus


Eater of Secrets was my personal tech choice for the tournament as everyone had Reno Mage. It didn't really work out to be honest, I won the matches without that card being a factor. Like yeah I got to break Ice Blocks but those matches I had won anyway. Another game I broke Ice Block but still lost so definitely cut that for ladder play. I would just replace that with Mountain Giant if you expect some Druids. The deck was generally made to be good across the board versus being good against certain decks (the combo package allows wins against the mirror and other control decks. Eater of Secrets for Reno Mage, big board clears for the midrange/Jade decks, anti aggro tools for the Pirates).

If you want more in depth explanation about individual card choices or exclusions then I would be happy to talk about it.
Click to expand...

mine is not all that different from yours honestly, i get blown up a lot more though.

heres two questions:
1) Why no imp gang boss?
2) When playing vs. control decks, how do you get them down to 20 health so the combo works? That is the biggest problem that I have when playing.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
1) Imp Gang used to be in the deck but I cut it because it's usually a bad top deck later on and doesn't have an immediate effect. It also doesn't synergize well with the rest of the deck, I have lots of battle cries, taunts and some powerful deathrattles that I need. Imp Gang just allows me to control board against aggro decks but when I play it they just ignore it and go face anyway. Better to have a powerful Battlecry or taunt or other effect. It's not bad, you can replace Farseer for it if you want to use it.

2) Against Control decks I have multiple win conditions. I can save Brann plus Dirty Rat and Kazakus which allows me to empty their hand while getting 2 10 mana cards from Kazakus. I also have Jaraxxus win condition of just out valuing them if they aren't a deck to have burst. The combo package is used against other Renolocks and other Renolocks usually just damage themselves enough to be in the 20 range with taps, Hellfire and Abyssal Enforcer which you also have to further do incidental damage.
 
B

bangbang i'm a timpani

Banned
Dahbomb said:
1) Imp Gang used to be in the deck but I cut it because it's usually a bad top deck later on and doesn't have an immediate effect. It also doesn't synergize well with the rest of the deck, I have lots of battle cries, taunts and some powerful deathrattles that I need. Imp Gang just allows me to control board against aggro decks but when I play it they just ignore it and go face anyway. Better to have a powerful Battlecry or taunt or other effect. It's not bad, you can replace Farseer for it if you want to use it.

2) Against Control decks I have multiple win conditions. I can save Brann plus Dirty Rat and Kazakus which allows me to empty their hand while getting 2 10 mana cards from Kazakus. I also have Jaraxxus win condition of just out valuing them if they aren't a deck to have burst. The combo package is used against other Renolocks and other Renolocks usually just damage themselves enough to be in the 20 range with taps, Hellfire and Abyssal Enforcer which you also have to further do incidental damage.
Click to expand...

thanks much appreciated!

one last one: whats your typical strategy vs aggro?
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
bangbang i'm a timpani said:
thanks much appreciated!

one last one: whats your typical strategy vs aggro?
Click to expand...
Try to get Reno Jackson. Keep Ooze, Doomsayer, Mortal Coil, Demon Wrath, Mistress. Mulligan away the rest.

There's no strategy against aggro. You either have the cards to beat them and Reno on turn 6 or you don't. Once the nerfs are live I would throw in Voidwalker which would be very effective against the Pirates.

No matter how well you tech against aggro, you are still at the mercy of draws (theirs and yours). There's no overall strategy to the match up, you just play as non greedy and safe as possible to clear their board and protect your health totals. Sometimes you need to tap aggressively to get the Reno as your out around turn 8/9 but you pretty much want to avoid tapping too if you can.
 
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