RichiRamjag
Member
My gut guess is, the lady in question is...
I know you can't comment
Given that they wanted it remain anonymous, maybe leave their name out of it?
I mean especially given the context of the story...
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Charles Randall on why game developers aren't more candid with public
- Thread starter Messofanego
- Start date
Given that they wanted it remain anonymous, maybe leave their name out of it?
I mean especially given the context of the story...
I think the issue highlighted here is a more specific case than what is described in the OP. It has the elements of the typical Dunning Kruger response, but more specifically it is about sexist tendencies in the public, it could potentially happen regardless of openness. This account mirrors a lot of other similar incidents.
The Albatross
Member
My gut guess is, the lady in question is [Redacted].
I know you can't comment
Y'know...... Maybe you shouldn't mention this person's full name? Like, the person obviously doesn't want to be named... So... naming her, even if you're right, is pointless. And naming her if you're wrong is simply malicious because now somebody might attribute this statement to that developer, when they have nothing to do with the discussion.
Your trivial interest in correctly guessing who someone is talking about shouldn't be more important than that person's interest in anonymity. You should edit your reply IMO.
More_Badass
Member
What other medium has this problem? We talk about changes to scripts/drafts/etc in movies, books, shows, music, etc all the time. Behind the scenes and candid discussion about the creative process and changes in those mediums are quite popular
Patrick S.
Banned
Yeah you guys are right. Edited my post.
That's equally popular in gaming - Unseen64 is proof of that.
The cut feature thing is a different problem, and it's one that other mediums suffer less with. It's changes that occur during the marketing cycle of a game. I think it's a combination of books/movies/shows being more predicatable processes, and things like movies having well-planned hype-cycle, but exceptions to occur - Rogue One was a good example of that.
AtomskEater
Member
Thanks!
JamesHolden
Banned
The Angry gamer who tells the world how much he doesn't like Game X for Reasons Y seems to get noticed and interacted with more than Content Gamer who enjoyed Game X despite Reasons Y. Thus, Angry Reviewer tends to get a lot more traffic to their website than Content Reviewer. Angry Reviewer realizes that his traffic and income are directly related to how Angry they can be, so they must stay Angry to stay relevant. If Angry Reviewer stops being Angry, they offend their customers.
Lister
Banned
Hes right, but im not sure his incredibly atagonistic tone is going to enlighten anyone about anything.
Apparently anyone who doesnt like a game and doesnt just "move on" instead of critisizing is a dumbass.
Not sure jowbthe medium is supposed to move forward that way. Hell im sure lots of devs would disagree with him.
Apparently anyone who doesnt like a game and doesnt just "move on" instead of critisizing is a dumbass.
Not sure jowbthe medium is supposed to move forward that way. Hell im sure lots of devs would disagree with him.
Gaming is a unique example in the way the publishers have cultivated and appealed to a certain type of identity by constantly pleasing them. The confluence of geek masculinity, simulated power fantasy, and cultivated consumer identity have in my opinion lead to this crisis of toxicity.
More_Badass
Member
I wish people were more interested in game dev the way people are fascinated by behind-the-scenes of movies. Reading devlogs, watching GDC talks, channels on game design really showcase just how complex and complicated game development is, and makes the final products that much more impressive
The latter seems to be more you changed the thing Im excited for, how dare you rather than meeting devs halfway in understanding some game design basics. I mean, I imagine the average person at least has some understanding how films are made, and can see how a deleted scene might have been cut for pacing or length or whatnot
I think theres a difference between the whoa, imagine how cool this would have been that people get from Unseen64 and actually being open to discussing the mindset and process behind changes, like most are with film
The latter seems to be more you changed the thing Im excited for, how dare you rather than meeting devs halfway in understanding some game design basics. I mean, I imagine the average person at least has some understanding how films are made, and can see how a deleted scene might have been cut for pacing or length or whatnot
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Because the lootboxes are crap?Deeke[VRZ];249949779 said:
LOL. That still wouldn't happen.
And yet that info exists in film despite tabloids and TMZ fueling a trashy fanbase that obsesses over toxic things like actors weights, who's dating who etc.
Aside from what has been said, i think games' interactivity is a factor, in their ability to affect you negatively ĺike no other medium can.
I hated movies plenty of times, but even the worst one, could never frustrate me as much as a game could, just on a purely physical level.
On the flip side, even games with a shitty story have an easier time engaging you emotionally, through their interactivity.
I hated movies plenty of times, but even the worst one, could never frustrate me as much as a game could, just on a purely physical level.
On the flip side, even games with a shitty story have an easier time engaging you emotionally, through their interactivity.
RichiRamjag
Member
He specifically addresses that. Theres nothing wrong with critique. At some point, you just dont like the product and you move on though. If youre arguing for continued harassment or continually dwelling on being negative about product that isnt for you, then I dont know what to tell you.
His point isnt really all that crazy.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Ah, I see... Thanks for the response.
I think (and I might be wrong here of course) that knowing about responsibilities can inform who we can ask/talk to when some decisions are made (e.g., 30FPS, microtransactions, DLC, etc).
There are plenty of consumers who have legitimate beefs and critiques and can and do articulate them thoughtfully. They ask good questions and make fair points. Problem is that they're not the most vocal ones. So depending on the subject, the exposure ratio of negative to thoughtful/intelligent/positive can basically get completely out of whack.
I have found that if you actually respond to a drive by "I hope you and your family die in a fire because the tuning on this weapon feels off" message, that they'll almost immediately respond with "Oh I didn't think anyone was going to read this..." and sometimes even apologize and converse - but that's not always true. Sometimes responding can be a can of worms and you end up talking to a hobbyist, serial harrasser or in some cases, actually deranged person.
I suspect that literally 99%+ consumers are reasonable, pleasant and perfectly normal. The problem is however the "poop in the pool" ratio - A single poop in a swimming pool represents a tiny, vanishing fraction of the overall volume of the pool, but once you see it, it ruins the whole pool for everyone and dominates the narrative.
And Charles isn't addressing the normal, polite or reasonable people at all. He's ONLY talking to the relentlessly negative or crazy ones, so unless you're one ofthem, there's no reason to feel offended, and if you are one, then well there you have it.
Community work in this industry is pretty tricky. Not just the responses but the original Twitter chain itself are pretty lucid receipts of that.
It is pretty transformative, though, and not in a bad way. I've been involved in that side for a few years, and hope I can find some time this week because I have a lot of thoughts about this topic. I'm not entirely on board with the sentiment this developer is expressing, though it's clear he is offering it in good faith.
I don't see much of this going on but a) I stick to GAF, b) I don't spend much time in tech threads, c) I don't spend much time in AAA game threads. I think those three things combined make it a bit of a culture shock when people talk about how bad it gets.
Idk. When I talk games and criticize games it is pretty much just on systems design, level design, narrative, and artistic levels. Those are the things that stick with me and which I have an interest in critiquing. And by critiquing I mean drawing out both what it is I think I like and what it is I think I dislike and trying to explain those feelings and how I think it all goes together.
I like doing that on the internet. Yeah, I have some strong opinions. And I do state them too strongly at times, but a) I think we should as consumers be thinking about what we consume and b) I try to be better about things.
Fuck the harassment stuff. Fuck knee jerk, thoughtless negativity.
But at the same time it is also really annoying when consumers get all slavish to the producers of content that they should be consuming with some independent thought.
Just be thoughtful about how you express said thoughts. It'll also make your critical understanding stronger.
Idk. When I talk games and criticize games it is pretty much just on systems design, level design, narrative, and artistic levels. Those are the things that stick with me and which I have an interest in critiquing. And by critiquing I mean drawing out both what it is I think I like and what it is I think I dislike and trying to explain those feelings and how I think it all goes together.
I like doing that on the internet. Yeah, I have some strong opinions. And I do state them too strongly at times, but a) I think we should as consumers be thinking about what we consume and b) I try to be better about things.
Fuck the harassment stuff. Fuck knee jerk, thoughtless negativity.
But at the same time it is also really annoying when consumers get all slavish to the producers of content that they should be consuming with some independent thought.
Just be thoughtful about how you express said thoughts
. It'll also make your critical understanding stronger.All of these vary so much that there is no answer.
Let's take for example 30 FPS. For some studios it's a question of what they focus on: ND for example builds the most eye-catching titles for Playstation platforms so their studio vision already pretty much decrees they are going to aim for 30 FPS. Some studios maybe leave it to the leads of the projects (whether it's a game director, or a group discussion of the most senior people of the project or whatever) and thus you can have a studio that produced both 30 and 60 FPS titles. Some studios teams tackle at it vision first, and then see whether it's reachable in 30 or 60 FPS and what are the potential trade-offs when you actually know (as in you've taken a few years to build a vertical slice that is supposed to represent the vision of the end product). Some may simply take a loot data and PnL and say that the development team should target the best visuals for better chance at market success, thus 30 FPS.
DLC/Microtransactions are usually a discussion of company strategy (IE. what is success to the publisher, what key points does a game need to fill to make it into the portfolio and actually be a worthwhile invesment of 50+ million dollars) and then subsequent discussion of the product/game design and budget/planning. Things shuffled between the "publisher" and "developer" (lines are actually very grey), but if you put 50-150 million dollars into a high-risk project in a market where GaaS is becoming the real big things worth the investment for these big companies, it's not a question of how decides, and more of a discussion of creating a product that fits the needs of the market and company strategy. There are companies that do not excessively do these kinds of decisions, and unfortunately those are the ones that are feeling threatened by current trends.
In any case, most of these discussions are not up to a single department or people, but an on-going discussion and planning until agreement is reached.
Daffy Duck
Member
I think the problem is gamers get totally screwed over by publisher intentions to maximise profits that people dont understand the difference with what developers want and want publishers want.
Its lead to this toxic environment we have now.
I dont think any other medium gets so screwed over by every decision.
Only decent people seem to be CD Projekt with Witcher 3.
Theres also the practice that they like to deserve target renders for reveals, how about you stop that? Then we wont have to do the whole downgrades come release and people wont poke fun at the fact.
Theres a lot of sins that has lead to us this point.
Its lead to this toxic environment we have now.
I dont think any other medium gets so screwed over by every decision.
Only decent people seem to be CD Projekt with Witcher 3.
Theres also the practice that they like to deserve target renders for reveals, how about you stop that? Then we wont have to do the whole downgrades come release and people wont poke fun at the fact.
Theres a lot of sins that has lead to us this point.
There is simply no excuse for that kind of behavior.
That said I do not think this is only a product of the gaming community.. And more a product of our sexist society.
I think of Gaming as an art form. and in that art form there will exist reasoned discourse and also terrible examples of human beings.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The trainwreck that was the public obsession over No Man's Sky comes to mind. That was a game that genuinely had problems because the developer failed to deliver at launch, yes - but a lot of people really came across as emotionally disturbed in their unending obsession with the fact that a video game disappointed them. The controversy over Mass Effect 3's ending is also up there.
There is a lot of obsessive-compulsive negativity in gaming; it tends to be a thing in "nerdy" communities in general, but gaming definitely has earned a reputation for sheer hostility and internet hate campaigns.
I know some people who work on games or are the lead developers. They like critique and taking games apart, and could talk for days about what is right or wrong about a game. They are however all quite weary of and demotivated by the sea of misanthropic personalities that gaming seems dominated by.
Kickstarter really opened my eyes to this. I was, and still am, really excited about developer updates and betas and things like that, but a sizable, and vocal portion of the community just cannot sit and wait. Look at Star Citizen. A game with a budget and develpment time along the lines of an Elderscrolls or GTA game. Bethesda and Rockstar are smart as fuck to shut up about their development.
Imagine is Rockstar threw up a bunch of drawings and a teaser of a voiceover and a logo for GTAV the minute they started making it, and over the next five years everyone played a glitchy beta. People would call GTAV the worst game they ever made. People shit all over PUBG, and are asking why 1.0 isn't out yet.
The movie comparison is interesting. We have Star Wars and Marvel movies planned out years in advance with photos, and news of rewrites and director changes and people are generally fine with it.
I think it does have to do with community though, because while even comic book movies are totally mainstream, and people seem to have healthy relationships with movies as the kind of "go to a movie every once in a while" entertainment, gaming still tends to have throngs of people that think their activity is niche and they are actively hostile towards the casual participant.
Imagine is Rockstar threw up a bunch of drawings and a teaser of a voiceover and a logo for GTAV the minute they started making it, and over the next five years everyone played a glitchy beta. People would call GTAV the worst game they ever made. People shit all over PUBG, and are asking why 1.0 isn't out yet.
The movie comparison is interesting. We have Star Wars and Marvel movies planned out years in advance with photos, and news of rewrites and director changes and people are generally fine with it.
I think it does have to do with community though, because while even comic book movies are totally mainstream, and people seem to have healthy relationships with movies as the kind of "go to a movie every once in a while" entertainment, gaming still tends to have throngs of people that think their activity is niche and they are actively hostile towards the casual participant.
Cuningas de Häme
Member
So, how many fake bomb threats, SWATting and other things have happened to actors etc?
Every Nintendo thread is a great example of GAF's finest.
Fandom doesn't mean that you get to act like a spoiled little kid. It doesn't mean that you threat to rape dev's kids and kill his wife (actual examples).
Fits into this topic I think. I agree with Randall and Bleszinski both. Nothing bothers and disappoints me more in this industry than the consumers. Not "lazy devs" or "greedy pubs", but obnoxious assholes.
This. "Gamers" are a bunch of useless turds. "Gamer" culture is disgusting and promotes harassment and jerky behaviour.
Hah! You weren't around in the Nintendo threads earlier this year?
This.
We found one of the GF.
Amen to that.
This. Why dwell on negativity? You don't need to be a flowerhat, love everything etc. but you can act like a normal person and just let things go.
Yup, never liked this breed of "influencers". He and his ilk are just a hatemongering doomsday sayers on a this age's soapbox.
Kor of Memory
Member
No Man's Sky is a terrible example because the devs flat out lied to us, though.
During the E3 presentation where the devs clumsily chose 3 planets at random to visit wasn't random at all. It was later found that those 3 planets weren't part of the procedural generated game that the rest of us would eventually play. They were custom made a carved out specifically for presentation purposes.
Good post op.
I think this a conversation that is needed. there's way too many people just spouting off noise and anger and heat rather than light and understanding.
the game world (world) does not have to be an angry, critical place all the time but people choose the route.
they don't appreciate other people's perspective anymore and it's becoming grossly annoying and sad as a society.
I think this a conversation that is needed. there's way too many people just spouting off noise and anger and heat rather than light and understanding.
the game world (world) does not have to be an angry, critical place all the time but people choose the route.
they don't appreciate other people's perspective anymore and it's becoming grossly annoying and sad as a society.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Holy shit, this thread is beyond embarrassing. So many armchair devs lecturing Lab Zero about costs and the work involved when they clearly know fucking nothing. Absolutely pathetic.
That's depressing as fuck. :\
That's not what he's saying. "Moving on" here doesn't mean shut up/say nothing/do not criticize, it means not going after the devs, not harassing them, sic'ing your Youtube subscribers/Twitter followers on them, etc.
RichiRamjag
Member
Exactly, I dont understand why people keep trying to paint it as if the guy said no one could complain about anything, ever. He even says criticism is welcome.
Kor of Memory
Member
I'm actually more of the opinion that the root of a lot of toxicity comes back to a level of self preservation.
Every facet of the video game industry seems to feed back into this idea of self-preservation, which has an unfortunate bi-product of negativity, or toxicity, towards everything else. When I buy a game and I like it, it is in my best interest to publicly praise this game to the best of my ability, while at the same time discredit similar products that could potentially be considered competition.
Lets start with a solid multiplayer game, Im going to use Overwatch as an example. To start with, for me to best maximize my enjoyment out of Overwatch I need to do a couple of things. Firstly, I want all my friends to play it, so I need to sell them on the game. Some buy in, some are hesitant, maybe they want to play Battleborn instead. Now my enjoyment has been threatened. There are two ways to deal with this threat. Try to praise Overwatch even more, or try to belittle Battleborn to the point that it is no longer interesting. But what about when my friends arent playing? Well, now I need strangers. Now it has become my best interest to keep sales of Overwatch high, keep new players coming in. This creates a positive feedback loop because more players likely means more content for my game (or if this wasnt Overwatch, it creates a healthy potential of a sequel). Again, I do my part to praise the game while simultaneously minimizing any threats to the best of my abilities. In short, its in my best interest that the games I enjoy sell well, review well, and maintain well.
This doesnt just have to be about multiplayer games, though they are easier to advertise for. However, the same still applies for single player games. I absolutely loved Darksiders, but the only way to get more Darksiders is to convince enough people to play Darksiders so that I might one day get the conclusion to my story (No, not alone ). This means I might find myself against Devil May Cry or God of War or even Zelda. This becomes problematic when I find someone else who prefers God of War, as Im now at odds with someone and feel the need to win this conflict when most likely Im just pointing out all of God of Wars flaws and shitting all over a great game.
What about before a game even comes out, though? Well, same rules apply. If I see a game that I know I want to be successful, it is again in my best interest for this game to sell as much as possible as fast as possible, while maintaining legs as long as possible. Anyone who has played a multiplayer game past its prime knows what Im talking about. How many of you Overwatch regulars felt it when Destiny 2 released this month? And you know we are going to feel it again for the PC release. Queue times are going to go up, which means general lag is going to more common, which means matches are going to be less fun more often than they currently are. This is true for every major release. Every time a new AAA-title comes out, the population of any existing game is going to take a hit. Some developers/games can handle this better than others. Some you might notice some shitty queues for a few days, others you might notice a reduction in playlists or game modes. After enough time has passed, youll eventually find that its not worth it for a dev to keep a server up anymore and you cant even play the game you enjoy anymore, all because of other games stealing players.
I have such fond memories of playing multiplayer for Halo 3, Castlevania: Harmony of Despair, Super Monday Night Combat, and Brutal Legend. All of these I can no longer enjoy because the playerbase for them is effectively gone.
Its all that reinforcement. For me to enjoy a game as long as I can, I basically have to compete against other games to preserve mine, both to ensure my duration with the game is plentiful, and so that the publisher recognizes the games worth and hopefully franchises it. I believe that every gamer on some level feels this subconscious issue of preservation. Some might lean more on the praise the game to sell more side, while others will lean more fuck that other game though, its terrible and here is why. In either case, games will always compete with other games, because in the end, we get feedback from publishers rather quick on whether an IP is worthy enough to continue.
Every facet of the video game industry seems to feed back into this idea of self-preservation, which has an unfortunate bi-product of negativity, or toxicity, towards everything else. When I buy a game and I like it, it is in my best interest to publicly praise this game to the best of my ability, while at the same time discredit similar products that could potentially be considered competition.
Lets start with a solid multiplayer game, Im going to use Overwatch as an example. To start with, for me to best maximize my enjoyment out of Overwatch I need to do a couple of things. Firstly, I want all my friends to play it, so I need to sell them on the game. Some buy in, some are hesitant, maybe they want to play Battleborn instead. Now my enjoyment has been threatened. There are two ways to deal with this threat. Try to praise Overwatch even more, or try to belittle Battleborn to the point that it is no longer interesting. But what about when my friends arent playing? Well, now I need strangers. Now it has become my best interest to keep sales of Overwatch high, keep new players coming in. This creates a positive feedback loop because more players likely means more content for my game (or if this wasnt Overwatch, it creates a healthy potential of a sequel). Again, I do my part to praise the game while simultaneously minimizing any threats to the best of my abilities. In short, its in my best interest that the games I enjoy sell well, review well, and maintain well.
This doesnt just have to be about multiplayer games, though they are easier to advertise for. However, the same still applies for single player games. I absolutely loved Darksiders, but the only way to get more Darksiders is to convince enough people to play Darksiders so that I might one day get the conclusion to my story (No, not alone ). This means I might find myself against Devil May Cry or God of War or even Zelda. This becomes problematic when I find someone else who prefers God of War, as Im now at odds with someone and feel the need to win this conflict when most likely Im just pointing out all of God of Wars flaws and shitting all over a great game.
What about before a game even comes out, though? Well, same rules apply. If I see a game that I know I want to be successful, it is again in my best interest for this game to sell as much as possible as fast as possible, while maintaining legs as long as possible. Anyone who has played a multiplayer game past its prime knows what Im talking about. How many of you Overwatch regulars felt it when Destiny 2 released this month? And you know we are going to feel it again for the PC release. Queue times are going to go up, which means general lag is going to more common, which means matches are going to be less fun more often than they currently are. This is true for every major release. Every time a new AAA-title comes out, the population of any existing game is going to take a hit. Some developers/games can handle this better than others. Some you might notice some shitty queues for a few days, others you might notice a reduction in playlists or game modes. After enough time has passed, youll eventually find that its not worth it for a dev to keep a server up anymore and you cant even play the game you enjoy anymore, all because of other games stealing players.
I have such fond memories of playing multiplayer for Halo 3, Castlevania: Harmony of Despair, Super Monday Night Combat, and Brutal Legend. All of these I can no longer enjoy because the playerbase for them is effectively gone.
Its all that reinforcement. For me to enjoy a game as long as I can, I basically have to compete against other games to preserve mine, both to ensure my duration with the game is plentiful, and so that the publisher recognizes the games worth and hopefully franchises it. I believe that every gamer on some level feels this subconscious issue of preservation. Some might lean more on the praise the game to sell more side, while others will lean more fuck that other game though, its terrible and here is why. In either case, games will always compete with other games, because in the end, we get feedback from publishers rather quick on whether an IP is worthy enough to continue.
More_Badass
Member
This is really fucked up and depressing, and sadly all too common.
More_Badass
Member
I...what...
You are overthinking this way too much
Like are you completely serious that you actually justify game-related stuff like this to yourself? I find it hard to fathom that kind of mindset. Do you do the same with movies?
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
This is all 100% completely true.
It happens on gaf, less becuase rules here are stricter. But you only need to take a step into x or y game's offcial forum, reddit, or twitter. Lots of people are stupid and they dont mind being wrong, they are right and the dev is always wrong.
Im an indie developer and we were actually talking about exactly this with other devs the other day.
Thats not to say some devs do things in a greedy way (mostly publishers but there are studios with bad people also) and should be criticise, but so many dumb comments undermining our work really sours everybody in the industry of being more open and showing development processes.
Case in point. Frontier, at the beginning of developing Planet Coaster, was super open, they showed everything they could about the game and WIP.
They showed stuff that couldnt make it into the final game, like go karts or security. Lot of people were ANGRY, they shouted in the forums and reddit they were lied to. Go kart and security guards came some months later in one of the free updates.
After all this stupid discussion by people that dont understand they really closed themselves, people started to think they were not being heared, but every update, lots of new stuff that people asked came in new updates, but they didnt talk inbetween (nearly complete radiosilence) them becuase they are fear of promising something they can make at the end.
Incredibly depressing and sadly true.
It happens on gaf, less becuase rules here are stricter. But you only need to take a step into x or y game's offcial forum, reddit, or twitter. Lots of people are stupid and they dont mind being wrong, they are right and the dev is always wrong.
Im an indie developer and we were actually talking about exactly this with other devs the other day.
Thats not to say some devs do things in a greedy way (mostly publishers but there are studios with bad people also) and should be criticise, but so many dumb comments undermining our work really sours everybody in the industry of being more open and showing development processes.
Case in point. Frontier, at the beginning of developing Planet Coaster, was super open, they showed everything they could about the game and WIP.
They showed stuff that couldnt make it into the final game, like go karts or security. Lot of people were ANGRY, they shouted in the forums and reddit they were lied to. Go kart and security guards came some months later in one of the free updates.
After all this stupid discussion by people that dont understand they really closed themselves, people started to think they were not being heared, but every update, lots of new stuff that people asked came in new updates, but they didnt talk inbetween (nearly complete radiosilence) them becuase they are fear of promising something they can make at the end.
Incredibly depressing and sadly true.
Kor of Memory
Member
It's not something I find myself doing now as an adult, but it's certainly something I can reflect back on in my youth, or I feel like I might notice here or on reddit.
I'm not even saying it's a conscious decision when people do this. More of a subconscious effort. It's probably a bit too far into the armchair psychoanalysis though...
Edit: When the Wii came out I loved it, and I didn't want another repeat of the Gamecube, so I talked it up to everyone I knew. Trying to ensure the Wii would sell well and get a better library because of it.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
I used to frequent GAF and other gaming forums much more often, but have slowly moved away from them due to the overwhelming hyperbolic "criticisms" that get thrown around at games and towards other gamers. The Overwatch Tracer pose stands out as a perfect example of this, where the adjustment of one of Tracer's victory poses exploded into an online shitstorm that lasted weeks. People couldn't stop yelling about how Blizzard were a bunch of social justice warriors, which I don't even think is an insult tbh. But if Blizzard can't even change a character's pose without getting demonized, what chance do smaller developers even have?
By the way, this criticism extends far beyond developers and towards other gamers. It's the main reason I stopped frequenting these forums. You're struggling to beat a boss in Dark Souls? GIT GUD NOOB. Trying to explain why you prefer Heroes of the Storm to Dota 2? HotS is a no-skill game LOL enjoy playing with grandmas and children *dota2emoji* It's just non-stop insult after insult by immature people who think they're superior for preferring one game over another.
I tried to fight it by being reasonable but honestly after a while it just grates on you and I decided it was better for me to just disconnect than continue to engage in a spiraling community. I still visit every now and then to see what new games are out and what people are talking about, but for the most part I now get my gaming news from articles and podcasts where the discourse is more elevated.
By the way, this criticism extends far beyond developers and towards other gamers. It's the main reason I stopped frequenting these forums. You're struggling to beat a boss in Dark Souls? GIT GUD NOOB. Trying to explain why you prefer Heroes of the Storm to Dota 2? HotS is a no-skill game LOL enjoy playing with grandmas and children *dota2emoji* It's just non-stop insult after insult by immature people who think they're superior for preferring one game over another.
I tried to fight it by being reasonable but honestly after a while it just grates on you and I decided it was better for me to just disconnect than continue to engage in a spiraling community. I still visit every now and then to see what new games are out and what people are talking about, but for the most part I now get my gaming news from articles and podcasts where the discourse is more elevated.
RichiRamjag
Member
Really? Thats pretty odd and definitely not a healthy mindset.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Note that in this medium at the worst of times there are entire communities dedicated to harassing developers, like KiA and gamergate, and the things that are considered benign are the complete overreactions for some of the most ridiculous things to overreact about, for instance, the recent cuphead debacle for instance, or that story someone posted awhile back about a woman getting harassed for the crime of working as an artist on a video game. I genuinely can't think of any community that reacts to things like the gaming community.
Kor of Memory
Member
I meant that in the general sense.
I, Kor of Memory, do not partake in this habit anymore.
I think if you really cared about this subject, you would do yourself a service by doing research on people's experiences with both engines and how things are done in both engines instead of looking at correlations and making generalized assumption based on a shallow understanding of game development.
Jacksinthe
Banned
PM sent!
platypotamus
Member
Once on GAF, someone posted a screen cap of me at work (from a promotional video) and a bunch of folks started making some jokes. Not like, mean spirited ones or anything. It was kind of cool. I kind of wanted to out myself as the dev in the picture, and post my own joke, but decided it wasn't worth dealing with everything else that might come with it as the game was launching and what not. I mean, I'm not super secretive about what I've worked on, where I've worked, etc, and there are folks on GAF who know me IRL and all, but man, the way our industry and the community works, it feels inevitable something will piss someone off and they'll bring it to me, and I got enough shit to deal with in my own life, ya know? So I try to keep a low-ish profile.
if theres something specific you want me to read, point me in that direction
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Just recently we had that thread w/someone calling Cuphead's sound design "abysmal" and even when Teeth came into the thread the OP largely ignored him.
People need to chill
People need to chill
Messofanego
Banned
Wow. This sucks.