Haha. I completely forgot about the twist in that game.
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Worst "He was there all along" Retcons
- Thread starter Shadow_Lord
- Start date
psynergylover
Member
my only complaint with uncharted 4; they tried to ham in Sam so hard with all the story and flashbacks.
Sam: hey Drake remember when me, you, and Sully did this!?
No we don't!!! As you weren't even mentioned in the past 3(4 if you count the Golden Abyss) and it makes Marlowe's interragation of Drake in 3 look foolish as she didn't know Drake had a brother for like nearly 25 years he was alive!(before being reported dead)
I know ND weren't even close to have=ing a story for Uncharted 4, but Sam coming out of nowhere and then being apart of all these untold stories really hurt the game imo.
Ok, everyone's talking about ZTD, and... I can kind of see it honestly, although I'd say it wasn't *the* problem with the game that made it unsatisfying.
But y'all are missing the TRUE terrible retcon, that ruins everything that came before it for no reason, in Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. Dear god.
EDIT: Whoops, I misread the title a little, this is about a very specific kind of retcon.
...It's still stupid though.
But y'all are missing the TRUE terrible retcon, that ruins everything that came before it for no reason, in Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. Dear god.
A recap: until the final portion of the game, you are led to believe that the crossover gang have been transported to an alternative universe, where there's medieval technology, magic, and things generally have a different rule set compared to what people are used to, and a "story teller" who writes the story for what happens in said universe. People die. There's drama, tragedy, the good stuff that makes up good Ace Attorney cases, interspersed with investigationy Layton sections, and because they take the time to set up rules for magic, and it's a crossover in an alternate universe, it's all very believable. Especially since, HAH, how would this even work with a reasonable explanation?
... So I actually can't remember everything because there's just so much bullshit.
But to summarize:
People burned for witch crimes don't actually die. They're instead hypnotized to become slaves to a pharmaceutical company, owned by the story teller.
The story teller writes what he wants to happen with SCIENCEY HYPNOTIC INK, that then convinces the reader to do what's written there with the power of suggestion.
The water in the town contains some SCIENCEY METAL or something, which when ingested, means that if you ring a bell of a different SCIENCEY METAL, anyone who ingests it falls unconscious.
Whenever someone casts a spell, a slave rings a bell to knock everyone unconscious, to set up whatever magic needs to be set up.
Also everyone has been hypnotised to not be able to see a certain shade of black,and have somehow not walked into any giant machines hidden around the town covered in black cloaks. Oh yeah, btw, it's not an alternative universe, this is somewhere in England, and everyone has had their memories erased after agreeing to live in a society with witch hunts for some reason.
ALL OF THIS is because the story teller is a terrible parent, and instead of taking a traumatised child to therapy (long story), he decided blaming it on witches of his own creation was the logical thing to do.
WHY IS THIS A RETCON? The opening STILL doesn't make sense with all this bullshit. Some of the stuff done there couldn't be done, due to being in London instead, where there aren't slaves with bells, or cloaked machines, or all that stuff. They did extra retcons in the free dlc, but it still doesn't make any sense. It would have been so much better to keep the magic, magic. I actually forgot how bad it was until writing this.
... So I actually can't remember everything because there's just so much bullshit.
But to summarize:
People burned for witch crimes don't actually die. They're instead hypnotized to become slaves to a pharmaceutical company, owned by the story teller.
The story teller writes what he wants to happen with SCIENCEY HYPNOTIC INK, that then convinces the reader to do what's written there with the power of suggestion.
The water in the town contains some SCIENCEY METAL or something, which when ingested, means that if you ring a bell of a different SCIENCEY METAL, anyone who ingests it falls unconscious.
Whenever someone casts a spell, a slave rings a bell to knock everyone unconscious, to set up whatever magic needs to be set up.
Also everyone has been hypnotised to not be able to see a certain shade of black,and have somehow not walked into any giant machines hidden around the town covered in black cloaks. Oh yeah, btw, it's not an alternative universe, this is somewhere in England, and everyone has had their memories erased after agreeing to live in a society with witch hunts for some reason.
ALL OF THIS is because the story teller is a terrible parent, and instead of taking a traumatised child to therapy (long story), he decided blaming it on witches of his own creation was the logical thing to do.
WHY IS THIS A RETCON? The opening STILL doesn't make sense with all this bullshit. Some of the stuff done there couldn't be done, due to being in London instead, where there aren't slaves with bells, or cloaked machines, or all that stuff. They did extra retcons in the free dlc, but it still doesn't make any sense. It would have been so much better to keep the magic, magic. I actually forgot how bad it was until writing this.
EDIT: Whoops, I misread the title a little, this is about a very specific kind of retcon.
...It's still stupid though.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Her not mentioning him in the 4 short scenes they shared doesn't somehow make his entire existence unreasonable, this is just nit picking really.
I would agree with Sam being a bad retcon if he actually conflicted with any of the previous events other than character motivations, and even they can be debated.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Does Obama feel guilt for his brother's death? Did his brother come up with their new name and kickstarted his interest in a political career? If Obama was kidnapped and his enemy was trying to get into his head, would they not bring up this part of his past if these were his lowest/most influential points of his youth/past?
But it does point out that it's completetly unnecessary. We have seen what drives Nate and what he'd do for folks in need. Sam could have been a friend from the orphanage or another treasure hunter under Sully's tutelage. This would have had Drake be in charge of searching for his mother's stuff and still be the kid we see in 3. That is shattered with Sam taking the leadership role in all of this. So that very much is a retcon.
See, the idea of this doesn't bother me. They've done this with Chloe, Flynn etc. But it's the weight of the relationship that bothers me.
Herp Derpington
Member
They shoehorned in Tom Holland's Peter Parker into Iron Man 2. Super stupid because it's impossible to counter since the kid had a mask so it's gotta be him right?
As for games Saints Row 2 and on kinda does this if you picked a female since the boss in the first game was only a male. It's a weird sorta retcon though so not sure if it really counts.
As for games Saints Row 2 and on kinda does this if you picked a female since the boss in the first game was only a male. It's a weird sorta retcon though so not sure if it really counts.
DarkConfidant
Member
I got so mad at that.
HOLY FUCK I FORGOT ABOUT THIS MOVIE
Haha. Yeah. XD
DarkConfidant
Member
This guy:
Apparently we're meant to believe that this edgelord was somehow able to blend into the Inaba populace and closely observe the Persona 4 Investigation Team and all of their moments together throughout the course of the game.
...wait, who?
First thing that came to mind. It was really dumb.
Ordinaryundone
Member
Exactly!
It's Sho, the primary antagonist from Persona 4 Arena Ultimax. Don't worry if you don't remember him, he didn't exist until that game.
BobJustBob
Member
Wait, what? I finished every Halo game and I thought the forerunners were humans. Why was Chief the reclaimer and able to activate all the forerunner tech when the Covenant couldn't if it's not because he was human?
Ordinaryundone
Member
The Forerunners beat the humans in an ancient interstellar war that took decades and killed billions but since they were technical pacifists they decided they couldn't kill us off completely and instead stuck us on Earth and knocked us back to the stone age. Then the Flood showed up and when the Forerunners realized they'd have to sacrifice themselves to save the galaxy they passed on their "mantle of responsibility" to the humans (aka Reclaimers) to take their place once we had gotten back to where we were.
It's duummmmmmmb.
Vegnagun from FFX-2.
The entire time you were busy fighting Sin, there was a giant evil looking skullfaced moth mecha buried way underground that is not only stronger than Sin but no one bothered to mention its existence throughout the entirety of FFX. You'd think someone would have said "sure Sin's bad, but at least it's not Vegnagun!", but it just never came up. Whoops.
Runner-up: Terra and Aqua in KH:BBS granting keyblades to the kids from KH but the games never mentioning it up until that point.
The entire time you were busy fighting Sin, there was a giant evil looking skullfaced moth mecha buried way underground that is not only stronger than Sin but no one bothered to mention its existence throughout the entirety of FFX. You'd think someone would have said "sure Sin's bad, but at least it's not Vegnagun!", but it just never came up. Whoops.
Runner-up: Terra and Aqua in KH:BBS granting keyblades to the kids from KH but the games never mentioning it up until that point.
shockthrill
Banned
does Vergil count in DMC 3
was there every any talk if Dante had a twin brother in DMC 1?
was there every any talk if Dante had a twin brother in DMC 1?
Pretty sure Bungie flip-flopped on this. IIRC, Joseph Staten was strong advocate of humans being Forerunners but that wasn't necessarily Bungie's position in general.
Halo 3 does have Guilty Spark state humans are Forerunners, but at the same time, the terminals and the Iris ARG campaign pretty strongly imply Forerunners are a separate race.
Personally i always interpreted the Forerunners to be a separate species and that humans were somehow followers for them for reasons unknown (even though i dislike "humanity is chosen one" or "humanity is special" tropes).
Crimsonclaw111
Member
He literally is the boss 3 times in dmc1
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Nelo Angelo from DMC1, yes.
Barry Burton
Member
It's been a long time, but wasn't this strongly implied when you beat Nelo Angelo and get his "other half" of the pendant?
Ordinaryundone
Member
IDK about twin necessarily but it's made pretty clear that Nero Angelo is Dante's brother in DMC via the amulets and their family painting. I don't remember if they actually call him Vergil at any point though, I think that was introduced in 3.
LordKasual
Banned
Even if this was confirmed, it would be a plot twist, not a retcon.
LordKasual
Banned
oops, doublepost
Yes. I mean it's kind of hard to tell if they were identical twins, but Vergil was definitely his brother.
Mundus says his name was Vergil immediately after you kill him.
Yes. I mean it's kind of hard to tell if they were identical twins, but Vergil was definitely his brother.
Mundus says his name was Vergil immediately after you kill him.
Crisis Core is one of the worst for sure. Zack having Clouds iconic moments before he did(jumping on the train and falling into the church) all the bullshit with Aeris which for a previous relationship it was boring as fuck to watch any personality of Aeris go right out the door with Zack. Don't get me started on his influences.
Then there's Genisis which is the worst of all.
Then there's Genisis which is the worst of all.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
TheEndOfItAll
Neo Member
Kind of obscure, but Leanora from FFIV: The After Years. Kind of silly.
She was the girl he was flirting with in the ending sequence of FFIV. A forgettable scene from a forgettable character.
bigDdestruction
Member
Does the ada Wong missions separate ways count in RE4? If I remember correctly the original GameCube release didn't have the ada Wong missions and was added for the ps2 version. I always found it funny in the village section that you can hear Leon firing gunshots but can't see him at all
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Diablo III: The Wanderer (protagonist of Diablo I) was the son of the king of Tristram all along.
War Raichu
Member
Separate Ways definitely counts. Ada was the reason for the church's defenses being active (done so that she could ring the bell and draw away the Ganados), the Green Catseye behind the church, the blood stain near the cable car, etc.
However you absolutely can see Leon running around in the background a few times, you just can't reach him.
Azure Phoenix
Member
I'm still torn on if I want to or not. On one hand, Labrys was a great addition and I want her to continue to be part of the franchise. On the other, Ultimax, Q and Dancing All Night's awful storylines are offensive to me as a Persona 3/4 fan - particularly Dancing.
Oh ...oh no oh my god. Since I only played the white witch I never even thought of interpreting it like that. That's so much better and so much more impactful, damn!!!
the_sun_king
Member
Dude, Igor's identity is hinted at from the very beginning when he asks you to agree that the game is a work of fiction (P5's contract).
DarkConfidant
Member
Oh lol never played the spinoff. Probably wont now
Ordinaryundone
Member
Wasn't this technically retconned? Guile is definitely Magus in Radical Dreamers but he doesn't play much of, if any real role in Chrono Cross and his previous role isn't even really alluded to outside of one tiny reference to RD. I still like the interpretation though.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I feel like this actually doesn't fit for two reasons:
1 - Magus still kicking around looking for Schala would make perfect sense in a Chrono Trigger sequel, especially if that sequel ends up dealing directly with Schala.
2- They dropped the whole "Guile (Gil) is Magus" thing from Cross anyway, even though Radical Dreamers came out before that additional scene in the DS Trigger release.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Guile in Chrono Cross (game released in 1999) was originally supposed to be Magus but they dropped the idea during development. However, when Square Enix released Chrono Trigger DS in 2008, they added extra sequences revealing that Guile really is Magus after all. So "he was there all along" when you played Chrono Cross.
Radical Dreamers is a different continuity with no bearing on the Trigger->Cross main continuity. (Actually, Radical Dreamers is seven different continuities depending on how you play it; Magil has wildly different origins in most of them.)
Eh, that one worked pretty well. By the events of the first game she's been imprisoned for a while and every trace of her was censored by Ryan. The only stuff I'd say works against it is in-game materials like this. Really if you're talking about "he was there all along" retcons in BioShock it's Elizabeth in Rapture, or maybe Gil being the second-in-command guy to Suchong before the latter got blained by a Big Daddy.
Perhaps more importantly, it tonally fits in with the established narrative. Fontaine realizing that the charity angle would be the way to sucker Rapture into fighting for him via Lamb's commune, and Ryan giving up on his ideals when faced with an intractable foe before Atlas even showed up.
Astral Dog
Member
Liquid Snake
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Again, the main thing is that she hurts people psychologically. But with Drake, arguably the thing that would hurt him the most was hearing about his brother considering how much they shove him in your face for 3/4ths of UC4's campaign compared to characters we care about like Elena, or Sully.
MAtgS
Member
I just consider Bioshock 2 to be part of the multiverse of Infinite and not the same timeline as the 1st game.
Mushroomer25
Member
Immediately what came to mind for me as well.
"Here's this character who was fundamental to me as a person, but I have not mentioned him once in an entire trilogy of adventures due to a vague sense of grief! Including multiple flashbacks that he would absolutely have been alive for!"
Such bullshit, they could have easily fit his story in.
From the wiki:
If the fan wiki is anything to go by, it was the other 20 dumb characters that were made for CC that made Guile's story come to a halt. It's a dang shame...
What?
Unknown One
Member
Yeah I vote for Crisis Core followed by MGSV.
WHAT MOVIE IS THIS AND WHY IS EVERYONE FREAKING ABOUT IT!?
There's a scene in Iron Man 2 where Tony meets a little kid wearing an Iron Man mask. Come Spider-Man: Homecoming and the PR machine is in full swing. Tom Holland "revealed" that this kid from that scene was a very young Peter Parker all along.
ALL ALONG.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Zero Time Dilemma was the first thing I thought of when I read the title.
The fact that it's probably not even close to being the dumbest thing in the game is almost impressive.
The fact that it's probably not even close to being the dumbest thing in the game is almost impressive.
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