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Charlyne Yi accuses David Cross of being racist toward her

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P

Poor GRIMES

Banned
Zen Aku said:
"100% infallible"

The event might have happened, but it may not have went down exactly like how the two of them thought it did. Maybe Yi is 100% correct and David did say all those things. Maybe David is 100% right and none of it happened, or maybe the truth is somewhere in between both of their recollections.
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Yes, that’s fair; but, you need to understand that the person accusing Cross of this interaction is not some rando looking for attention: it’s Charlene Yi. There’s, without a doubt in my mind, that this particular interaction did not come to light until recently because Yi began to establish herself through her work on Steven Universe. Had this come a decade back, it’d be disregarded as hearsay or completely ignored altogether, most likely causing her career to collapse unto itself.

The logic is as follows:
1. Yi accuses Cross of racism
2. Cross accepts that they did interact
3. Cross claims that both may be misremembering the interaction

With this, I can conclude that Cross more than likely did interact with Yi in a manner that caused offense, and his non-apology is further damning.
 
R

Replicant

Member
#Rashomon, really?

What is even the purpose of that? Implying that she's lying? Or because she's asian so it's only appropriate the hashtag is Asian-related even though she's not even Japanese?
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Kinyou said:
That doesn't help if you can't prove it. Character witnesses aren't going to help much there either.
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This is back to the “racism is an unavoidable accusation that ruins your life immediately” narrative.

I don’t think this is true except for, you know, people who do racist stuff a lot.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
pigeon said:
This is back to the “racism is an unavoidable accusation that ruins your life immediately” narrative.

I don’t think this is true except for, you know, people who do racist stuff a lot.
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I'm not saying anything about ruining lifes, but when people aggressively deny it they look more guilty than innocent. No matter if any character witnesses weigh in that they're actually a really nice.

For the record, I do believe that Cross probably was a racist asshole, but if he were to be innocent I doubt he'd be able to prove it by aggressively denying it.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
Kinyou said:
I'm not saying anything about ruining lifes, but when people aggressively deny it they look more guilty than innocent. No matter if any character witnesses weigh in that they're actually a really nice.
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Ultimately it's up to you to not care that much regarding gossip about people you don't know.

It's not like I'm ever going to work with David Cross anyway, so what does someone calling him a racist actually mean to us?
 
K

killroy87

Member
Whyyyyyyyyyy can no one just admit to having fucked up, and apologize like a decent human being? Even if you don't remember! Just apologize!
 
M

Mesoian

Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Ultimately it's up to you to not care that much regarding gossip about people you don't know.

It's not like I'm ever going to work with David Cross anyway, so what does someone calling him a racist actually mean to us?
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While true, it would be nice if people with a lot of visibility and large stages would take a little bit of responsibility when they act like a chode instead of aggressively trying to make their accusers seem like angry crazy people.

Like, a basic ass, "Yeah that was probably a bad joke on my part, I was really into a role at the time, not that that's an excuse. if I made you feel bad, I'm really sorry, and feel free to call me out on it in the future," would do a lot.

Instead, we got, "Naw I'm hilarious, you must just not get the joke. Sorry if you got offended, but it can't be my fault, I'm super funny #you'realiar".

Like come on.
 
J

jonezer4

Member
IlGialloMondadori said:
I may be wrong, but yeah, I just think sometimes, okay, David Cross was a cunt to a person, okay, but like...Twitter tho? Just tell him he's a cunt and ask for an apology in person or call him up, I don't know...
I mean, no doubt he was a prick here, and he should apologise, but like I don't think he's secretly Hitler or he's a murderer, he was just a giant ass to one person, so they should settle it.
I'm too old for this shit.
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It's a slippery slope for sure. Ignominy and Twitter mob justice for sexual creeps that took advantage of women? I'm all for it.

Somebody was a drunk diet racist at a party? I don't know that I'm on board.
 
A

aliengmr

Member
pigeon said:
This seems to be a covert assumption in this thread -- once somebody accuses you of being racist, it's all over and there's nothing you can do.

This is also a philosophy I have encountered during my life! White people hold this philosophy because they don't understand social justice, don't really want to, and treat it as a complicated ritual behavior rather than an actual moral imperative.

In real life, of course, this is not how things work. The belief that it does work this way is part of white resistance to the existence of racism.
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Not nothing, you can just accept it and apologize. The reason there is no defence is because that is not what matters, it's the resistance. Racism is larger than a single person, but it needs a face, someone to be that proof and listen. Denial only makes it worse.
 
G

GreenMonkey

Member
No one remembers things perfectly. And 10 years ago? Most people don't remember non-events like this very well 10 years later. Quoting Rashomon here when he remembers differently is totally sensible (and better than insisting she is wrong and he is right like most people do).

Probably her memory is better (given how shitty iand in bad taste it sounds) though. People tend to remember the bad and the outliers more vividly.
 
F

Faiz

Member
I have a hard time with these situations. While I'd love to be able to be supportive of Yi, memories are fallible, even, and yeah sometimes especially, when you've been insulted or feel you have been. I've had people on this very forum insist I said something incredibly offensive in a thread when the unedited post is right there for everyone to see and it's fucking nothing.

So...yeah, ugly situation, I can't stand in judgement on an isolated incident from a decade ago. It's a bad look though and I hope this is isolated and doesn't turn into a huge chain of revelations that corroborate each other.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
Zen Aku said:
"100% infallible"

The event might have happened, but it may not have went down exactly like how the two of them thought it did. Maybe Yi is 100% correct and David did say all those things. Maybe David is 100% right and none of it happened, or maybe the truth is somewhere in between both of their recollections.
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Again, what would happen in order for this to be between the two stories? I'm genuinely asking here. Cross' story is that they met, but he didn't do the chingchong or karate thing, which means they met and he didn't do a racist thing. Yi's story is that they met and he did the chingchong and karate thing, which means they met and he did racist stuff.

What's inbetween? He did one of the racist things or not the other? He did something that was only moderately racist instead of blatantly racist? He tripped and slammed his solar plexus into the corner of a table, and the air being shoved out of his lungs as his diaphragm spasmed sounded like him making mock Chinese noises? What could have happened?
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
GreenMonkey said:
No one remembers things perfectly. And 10 years ago? Most people don't remember non-events like this very well 10 years later. Quoting Rashomon here when he remembers differently is totally sensible (and better than insisting she is wrong and he is right like most people do).

Probably her memory is better (given how shitty iand in bad taste it sounds) though. People tend to remember the bad and the outliers more vividly.
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Using #Rashomon at the end was a cheap shot. He's trying to twist this around onto her.
 
B

boiled goose

good with gravy
5/10 apology.

Just say:

I'm sorry if I did that. It didn't represent how I felt then and certainly not what I believe now. A reminder that we are all vulnerable to prejudice and stereotyping and have to do a better job of promoting respect and inclusivity.
 
C

CopperPuppy

Member
meltingparappa said:
Not to be too much of a devil's advocate, but that first video is eight years old, the second one five years, and both of those are older than a lot of personal severing points in my friendships, due to topical either encouraging or uncovering some unsavory sides of former friends.

Also, David Cross is from Atlanta, and not to cast dispersions about the entire city, when I lived there it certainly operated on a sliding scale compared to NYC or LA.
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Huh? McInnes has been a vile dipshit for more than eight years.
 
A

Alo0oy

Banned
Does anybody actually think that hashtag wasn't intentional? Racists are always given the benefit of the doubt for some reason.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
boiled goose said:
5/10 apology.

Just say:

I'm sorry if I did that. It didn't represent how I felt then and certainly not what I believe now. A reminder that we are all vulnerable to prejudice and stereotyping and have to do a better job of promoting respect and inclusivity.
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More like 0/10. That was a classic total non-apology.
 
Z

Zvonimir Boban

Banned
Alo0oy said:
Does anybody actually think that hashtag wasn't intentional? Racists are always given the benefit of the doubt for some reason.
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Being called a racist is far worse than being racist, we need to show more empathy to people who go around doing and saying racist things because they have feelings and we shouldn't say things that might offend them.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
benicillin said:
In case anyone misses the subtle bullshit at the end of his tweet there, Rashomon is a classic Japanese film directed by Akira Kurosawa exploring unreliable narrators who all recall different versions of the same event. Because, you know, she's Asian.
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Um rashomon is commonly used as a shortcut for unreliable narrators as it is the best known example of the idea. And the perspectives all have merit. None of them is “wrong” or a lie.
 
B

besada

Banned
I just assume Cross was massively fucked up on drugs, said something racist and stupid, and promptly forgot it. Cross is a reasonably heavy drug user, including drugs like heroin, so it's anyone's guess as to how fucked up he was on the particular occasion. I doubt Charlene Yi is going to lie about something like that, anyway.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Holy shit at that hashtag after that string of nonsense in his reply. What a fucking dickhead.
 
S

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
Its still amazing how denial and name calling just blows it up more.

A simple, sorry I said that, I was just trying to be funny and put my foot in my mouth, spoke from my ass, was a dipshit, etc. It wasn't cool at all.

And this story dies.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Stinkles said:
Um rashomon is commonly used as a shortcut for unreliable narrators as it is the best known example of the idea. And the perspectives all have merit. None of them is “wrong” or a lie.
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Um, who gives a shit?

It's not like a movie reference hashtag was required for his post and the fact that Rashomon was chosen was just some grand unfortunate coincidence.

The fact that he completely lacks any perspective that selecting *that* movie in the context of apologizing for possibly maybe, but definitely, making racist ass comments to an asian person shows how much of a dick this guy is and how he probably lacked the same perspective when he first met Charlyne.

And of course using the hashtag in that way definitely implies that he is at best saying she is wrong and at worst calling her a liar, which just goes to show he is a complete dick.
 
Z

Zaraki_Kenpachi

Member
Dalek said:
He wasn’t racist. He was doing a racist character.
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And really really hoped that you also get caught with your pants down doing racist remarks. Fucking creep.

besada said:
I just assume Cross was massively fucked up on drugs, said something racist and stupid, and promptly forgot it. Cross is a reasonably heavy drug user, including drugs like heroin, so it's anyone's guess as to how fucked up he was on the particular occasion. I doubt Charlene Yi is going to lie about something like that, anyway.
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What does his drug use have to do with anything? Especially give his recent comments, it seems like a weird attempt to excuse his behavior.
 
Sapiens

Sapiens

Member
Comedians are fucking assholes. Even the ones you think are relatively cool can be cold, heartless assholes.

And yeah, Cross is a fucking dirty junkie.

His netflix special was genuinely amazing though.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
wandering said:
Are we really “both sides”-ing racism right now
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What are you even talking about? I'm just talking about the use of #rashomon. I'm not two sidesing shit. Nor defending the rest of Cross' claim.

Fact: rashomon is frequently used to shorthand unreliable narrator device.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
Well if he was trying to win the benefit of the doubt for himself, he sure did find the best way to blow it. Hashtag Rashomon jfc.

Also “I’m not calling her a liar but I definitely did try to gaslight her just now” is a pretty wild way to go.
 
B

besada

Banned
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
What does his drug use have to do with anything? Especially give his recent comments, it seems like a weird attempt to excuse his behavior.
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Suggesting his possible memory problems stem from drug use is neither particularly controversial, nor is it an excuse for racism. Please refrain from making up stuff people didn't say. It's a shitty way to have a discussion. Not only didn't I excuse him, I explicitly said I believe Yi and that he said something racist and stupid.

We have altogether too much of this sort of bullshit going on around here, where people seem desperate to play gotcha rather than reading what was actually written. Cut it out.
 
F

Froyo Love

Banned
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
What does his drug use have to do with anything? Especially give his recent comments, it seems like a weird attempt to excuse his behavior.
Click to expand...

It just makes his tweets even weirder because it would be so easy for him to make a better apology: "I was high out of my mind, so when I did my racist redneck shtick I forgot about it and that's why I didn't apologize for acting like a prick the next morning when I was sober. I'm sorry."

Instead he's doubling down on this garbage "Well I don't remember this so did it really happen this way? I'm not saying she's lying but the truth is #mysterious" bullshit.
 
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