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CrowbCat - LawBreakers in an oversaturated market

P

Psychoward

Banned
packy34 said:
This is a strawman argument, come on. Lynching is clearly and obviously tied to racism. As I said above, I myself had seen quote without understanding the context at the time. If I were to say it without knowing the context, am I immediately a bigot?

It's like claiming a child is racist because they heard a word on TV or at school and repeated it without knowing what it means; it's nonsense.
Click to expand...

He used the audio from the video, comparing him to a literal child doesn't do him much good.

If he really didn't mean it in a racist context, despite it only ever being used by racists for racist contexts and it specifically referring to what was shown on screen - he could have removed it or apologized or addressed the outrage. But, nope.
 
S

sKin1337

Banned
Psychoward said:
Thinking perpetuating racist stereotypes through racism could never possibly be as damaging as saying the n-word shows you don't really know what you're talking about to be frank.
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You missed the point. I was not referring to the consequence, but rather the intent. One is malicious, the other is misguided. Equating the two demonstrates the arrogance upon which you push your agenda onto others.
 
A

AlexFlame116

Member
It doesn't matter how many hours of entertainment someone has provided before, saying something that's racist is still racist. Now if you quickly truly apologize because it was something that you didn't know was racist and you try to fix it, then okay we're good. I can see that you're trying your best to be better than before.

But if you don't say anything about it or double down on it, mentioning things like "I have a friend who's x or my uncle was y" with no signs of improvement, then something's up.
 
B

BBboy20

Member
packy34 said:
This is a strawman argument, come on. Lynching is clearly and obviously tied to racism. As I said above, I myself had seen quote without understanding the context at the time. If I were to say it without knowing the context, am I immediately a bigot?

It's like claiming a child is racist because they heard a word on TV or at school and repeated it without knowing what it means; it's nonsense.
Click to expand...
........did you just compared an supposed adult to a child? And you actually believe, up to now, Crowbcat has not been informed on how racist this little "joke" is?
 
P

Psychoward

Banned
sKin1337 said:
You missed the point. I was not referring to the consequence, but rather the intent. One is malicious, the other is misguided. Equating the two demonstrates the arrogance upon which you push your agenda onto others.
Click to expand...

The intent of the joke is malicious and always has been.
 
S

sKin1337

Banned
disappeared said:
So then you're some sage waiting patiently in the wings to once or twice a year only to pop in and drop knowledge defending racist remarks on youtube?
Click to expand...

A very fallacious attempt to negate my opinion. 5/7, nice try though.

why do people keep saying it's an out of context snippet when he used it for the very reason the snippet was created for in the first place
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It was created to supplement an Assassin's Creed meme? You're reaching.
 
B

BBboy20

Member
packy34 said:
My example isn't a strawman; it's a comparison to what was quoted to highlight the ridiculousness.
Click to expand...
1920px-Cross_Lighting_2005.jpg

This is what "we were kingz" is a part of. This is serious.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
sKin1337 said:
You missed the point. I was not referring to the consequence, but rather the intent. One is malicious, the other is misguided. Equating the two demonstrates the arrogance upon which you push your agenda onto others.
Click to expand...
It's an explicitly racist and malicious meme, which he used in the exact context the original was used in.
 
P

Psychoward

Banned
sKin1337 said:
A very fallacious attempt to negate my opinion. 5/7, nice try though.



It was created to supplement an Assassin's Creed meme? You're reaching.
Click to expand...

It was created to mock african-american history in egypt. The segment of the supercut was focused on a black Egyptian talking about his history. You're reaching to pretend it was just a coincidence.
 
packy34

packy34

Member
Psychoward said:
He used the audio from the video, comparing him to a literal child doesn't do him much good.

If he really didn't mean it in a racist context, despite it only ever being used by racists for racist contexts and it specifically referring to what was shown on screen - he could have removed it or apologized or addressed the outrage. But, nope.
Click to expand...

Right, and he should.

There are several reasons why he might believe it would be better not to do so, none of which are very good in my opinion, but hey. It's not my channel.

Do we even know if Crowbcat *is* white?
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
packy34 said:
This is a strawman argument, come on. Lynching is clearly and obviously tied to racism. As I said above, I myself had seen quote without understanding the context at the time. If I were to say it without knowing the context, am I immediately a bigot?

It's like claiming a child is racist because they heard a word on TV or at school and repeated it without knowing what it means; it's nonsense.
Click to expand...

Did you just imply that Crowbat is like a child who just repeats extremely racist things without knowing the context? Because that's bullshit.

He picked a very contextualized racist joke during a thematically relevant moment in the video. There is no "just repeating" or "out of context" there.
 
Q

Qassim

Member
Everything else aside, I haven't played Lawbreakers - but from what i see it seems like a quality game. One that is considered in what is trying to do, where it pulls from and what it tries to achieve.

It seems very surprising that a game like this would bomb so hard, I thought it'd at least pull in 2-3k concurrent players on PC (which is not a good number at all), but it's struggling to hit 500 at the moment which is, despite what has been said by the devs - a dismal failure for an online only shooter.

It's an odd feeling to describe, but I imagine expectations were a fair bit high - not significantly higher, I'm sure they were all well aware of the market they were going into and the traction they were (or were not) gaining in the run up to release, but I can't imagine how it must feel to watch something you worked on like this to flop so hard.

It's more than possible to bring it back though, so they shouldn't give up. CSGO was getting pretty awful numbers (still in the low 10,000s shortly after release, failing to beat CSS and 1.6) - and that ended up peaking at 850,000 peak concurrent years after launch.
 
P

Psychoward

Banned
sKin1337 said:
You're confusing the creation of the original clip with Crowbcat's usage of it. They're not the same.
Click to expand...

ok so it wasn't malicious at all that he used a clip that was a white person mocking black egyptian history that is only funny or makes sense to include if you're a racist when a black egyptian showed up on his video and was talking about black egyptian history


right


even excluding all context possible, it's still a clearly white person doing a "stereotypical black voice" and is pretty fucking racist
 
packy34

packy34

Member
BBboy20 said:
1920px-Cross_Lighting_2005.jpg

This is what "we were kingz" is a part of. This is serious.
Click to expand...

And what I was saying to you is that not everyone who is exposed to that phrase is immediately aware of that. I saw it first used as a tag in a multiplayer game - had no idea what it was about.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
packy34 said:
And what I was saying to you is that not everyone who is exposed to that phrase is immediately aware of that. I saw it first used as a tag in a multiplayer game - had no idea what it was about.
Click to expand...

Why is this relevant, like, at all? Are you Crowbat or something? If not, it does not matter how aware you were of it.
 
packy34

packy34

Member
BBboy20 said:
You never answered my second question.
Click to expand...

I'm not Crowbcat; how can I answer that in any way that isn't inherently disingenuous? Has he probably heard? Yes. Are there legitimate (but still pretty bad) reasons to not address it or alter the video? Not in my opinion, but I can imagine some arguments he would make in favor of it. It's not my channel.
 
D

disappeared

Banned
sKin1337 said:
A very fallacious attempt to negate my opinion. 5/7, nice try though.
Click to expand...

No, I'm just genuinely curious about someone registered on an internet forum for two years - with a mere ~10 posts - choosing to enter and post in a thread defending a video with racist remarks.
 
packy34

packy34

Member
Einchy said:
Why is this relevant, like, at all? Are you Crowbat or something? If not, it does not matter how aware you were of it.
Click to expand...

The point is that no one here can say definitively where he came to hear it, or that he was even aware of what it meant when he used it in the video.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
packy34 said:
The point is that no one here can say definitively where he came to hear it, or that he was even aware of what it meant when he used it in the video.
Click to expand...

He literally used the racist meme in context within the video. To say he doesn't know what it means is a lie.
 
packy34

packy34

Member
Psychoward said:
he used the audio from the original video in the same exact context for the original video
Click to expand...

Since I've never seen that video and never plan to seek it out, it would have been impossible for me to know that, so thanks for making that clear at least.
 
K

Kevin

Member
I loved his older work. Unreal Tournament and Gears of Ware were pretty huge parts of my life. Lawbreakers never really interested me personally. Like for me Unreal Tournament was a great game to just shoot some people. It was a simple kind of game where you can jump into some deathmatch games and have a little fun. Personally I don't care much for the complexity and team based online gaming of today but I know a lot of people are into that.

As for CliffyB, he seems to have a lot of anger at a lot of people and can NOT handle negative feedback very well. Some developers can and some cannot. He also genuinely doesn't seem like a nice person at all which also make me not want to support his game development endeavors. Shame really. The guy just needs to step back and breath. No matter what you do, you're always going to have people that don't like you, your beliefs or your games. You just got to roll with the punches and maybe even discover that some negative feedback may actually be useful.
 
packy34

packy34

Member
Psychoward said:
I've been saying that for like 5 pages lol
Click to expand...

I knew the meme was created to be racist, but I didn't know the context was exactly the same as the way it was used in the supercut video.\

I also didn't read the whole thread before jumping in so that's on me too
 
Heavy's Sandvich

Heavy's Sandvich

Member
His Halo video was a bit plop.

This wasn't the greatest. Have no issue with Cliffy B trying to aim high and create something out of nothing. Pity he didn't reach the heights he wanted to.
 
A

Atraveller

Banned
Was that meme ever used in non-racist context? This is not a thing people causally came across.

The logic of appear only a few seconds does not count towards racism is full of shit. Also, by what racist/non-racist ratio does a person has to exceed to be judged a racist?
 
I

Immortal Technique

Member
Niceguydan8 said:
It's not naive to say the gaming landscape has changed. It has, and it will always be changing.

It is naive to suggest that it has changed to the point where people don't care about challenging shooters when there are multiple challenging shooters out on the market as we speak.

CS:GO, R6:Siege, and PUBG are challenging shooters. Maybe not challenging in the same way as Lawbreakers or Quake, but challenging nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Lawbreakers has other issues holding it back, but, still, I think it's fair to say people looking for challenging shooters is a shrinking market.

I haven't played Siege. CS:GO has a very high skill ceiling (PUBG lesser but some nonetheless) but on a fundamental level they are less challenging than LB. PUBG Is the smash hit right now, everyone and their mother is streaming it and watching how people play it, let's just say 'challenge' does not seem to be what they are looking for.

LB has a pretty brutal initial learning curve and I do think that scares some players off that happily partake in PUBG.

But the #1 problem is just that not enough people trying it or giving it a second look. The marketing has failed to reach enough people, and the people it did reach, it did not successfully communicate why this game should be played over other shooters. And the blandness of the game design does feed into that of course.
 
T

Tinfoilhatsron

Banned
Oh Jesus Christ...

CrowbCat knew the fucking context of the video, he edited the 'joke' knowing that it was about Egypt and black people at that exact point. How the fuck would anyone else know what the joke was. Was it a coincidence then? Furthermore he most likely pulled the audio from the original video. He might just be a little racist, ok? Accept it or just delude yourself further.

Now onto the real topic:

Cliffy is an asshole. That has nothing to with LB because it is a legitimately great game, that's incredibly unappealing to the masses because we already have multiple class based Team Arena shooters. I mean his comments certainly don't help. Awfully childlike of him to attack Xbox fans and other critics. Too bad it wasn't F2P, that might have been the saving grace. There are some neat ideas in it.
 
packy34

packy34

Member
Mahonay said:
Wha...

You didn't bother looking into what you're defending?
Click to expand...

Nope. I wasn't trying to defend one use of a racist meme; it was more about how things can sometimes snowball and people can get piled on without a lot of evidence. My experience with his videos over several years would lead me to believe that he isn't racist, and I prefer to give people with a long history the benefit of the doubt before joining in on any piles. I've seen it happen - falsely - to people I know personally, so I'm a little more sensitive to it.

But yeah, as someone who doesn't frequent 4chan and has no interest in racist memes or ideologies, I wouldn't have known the exact context of the original video juxtaposed against his.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
packy34 said:
Nope. I wasn't trying to defend one use of a racist meme; it was more about how things can sometimes snowball and people can get piled on without a lot of evidence. My experience with his videos over several years would lead me to believe that he isn't racist, and I prefer to give people with a long history the benefit of the doubt before joining in on any piles. I've seen it happen - falsely - to people I know personally, so I'm a little more sensitive to it.

But yeah, as someone who doesn't frequent 4chan and has no interest in racist memes or ideologies, I wouldn't have known the exact context of the original video juxtaposed against his.
Click to expand...
I'm a 31 year old man that doesn't visit 4Chan either.

When i saw this, I used Google and was immediately able to find what the meme was about. No excuse.
 
xrnzaaas

xrnzaaas

Member
Cliffy seriously needs to shut up, because his words do much more damage than good. Also it's quite crazy how this game never launched on an Xbox since he still has a lot of fans on that platform.

Nice montage by the way, could actually sell the game if it didn't include the part on the deserted servers. ;)
 
C

Chairmanchuck

Member
xrnzaaas said:
Cliffy seriously needs to shut up, because his words do much more damage than good. Also it's quite crazy how this game never launched on an Xbox since he still has a lot of fans on that platform.
Click to expand...

It isnt just Cliffy though.

Like I said, look at "gaming journalists" comparing the game to Overwatch, just because it has a "class-based" system...
 
F

Forerunner

Member
Arena based shooters in general are having a rough time. Early access for Quake Champions went live today on Steam and it peaked at about 1k and the current is about 400. However, you can also play the game through Bethesda.net, so that number is probably higher.
 
packy34

packy34

Member
Mahonay said:
I'm a 31 year old man that doesn't visit 4Chan either.

When i saw this, I used Google and was immediately able to find what the meme was about. No excuse.
Click to expand...

I had no reason to google that term when I saw it used as a gamertag, though. Why would I? Without any knowledge, it seemed like just another username. Nothing about it seemed offensive.

We can't assume everyone in the world who's seen a thing understands that thing, or would even think to seek out the knowledge to understand that thing. The best thing to do is to educate them; not berate them.


Forerunner said:
Arena based shooters in general are having a rough time. Early access for Quake Champions went live today on Steam and it peaked at about 1k and the current is about 400. However, you can also play the game through Bethesda.net, so that number is probably higher.
Click to expand...

And more on topic now...

It probably isn't much higher. People prefer Steam and will pay money to play it on there if it's the only option.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
packy34 said:
I had no reason to google that term when I saw it used as a gamertag, though. Why would I? Without any knowledge, it seemed like just another username. Nothing about it seemed offensive.

We can't assume everyone in the world who's seen a thing understands that thing, or would even think to seek out the knowledge to understand that thing. The best thing to do is to educate them; not berate them.
Click to expand...
No I mean when people pointed it was used in a CrowbCat video, not when you came across the random gamertag.
 
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