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CrowbCat - LawBreakers in an oversaturated market
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Rexatality
Member
VelveteenTouch
Member
Maybe it was because I don't follow the guy super closely, but Cliffy always came off as an extremely sarcastic sort to me. So I don't think he was being ultra serious when he said it was the Dark Souls of shooters. At the time every freaking game in existence was trying to catch some buzz by comparing themselves to Dark Souls, and I felt he was poking fun at it a little bit. Of course now that his game isn't doing so hot everybody wants to smack him over the head with the quote, when he was only trying to be a goof at the time.
But perhaps I'm being too generous.
But perhaps I'm being too generous.
Ban Puncher
Member
Atraveller
Banned
Ah, another youtube fanboy willing to look over anything because he finds the videos entertaining.
ISee
Member
The Cartographer
Member
The people playing the game in the video look excitable, they should cool down a bit.
Ban Puncher
Member
Barrel Cannon
Member
GAF hates cliffy, CrowbCat continues to make mediocre videos. Nothing changes.
At the end of all this Lawbreakers will still continue to play like the smoothest shooter this side of Titanfall and hopefully pick up a bigger player base over time.
At the end of all this Lawbreakers will still continue to play like the smoothest shooter this side of Titanfall and hopefully pick up a bigger player base over time.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I feel bad for Lawbreakers. From what I've heard it's a great shooter, but the most talked about aspect of the game is it's player count. The hope is that solid word of mouth turns this game's fortunes around, but in this cutthroat industry, it doesn't help to be anchored to a stigma that you're a failure.
We want games to be successful, yet it feels like there's a pile on with Lawbreakers. Crowbcat taking a jab at the game doesn't help anything and will only further cement Lawbreakers as a "do not buy", among highly impressionable gamers.
We want games to be successful, yet it feels like there's a pile on with Lawbreakers. Crowbcat taking a jab at the game doesn't help anything and will only further cement Lawbreakers as a "do not buy", among highly impressionable gamers.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Its a culmination of things.
Launching in a year where PUBG became a monster.
Launching right before Destiny 2 and the yearly shooters(cod, battlefront, destiny 2)
Launching after the year where Overwatch took the worlD
Realistically you're gonna have people going "should I get lawbreakers, or get csgo/overwatch/pubg which have a huge playerbase and are proven games?"
On the otherside you have people going
"Should I get lawbreakers or wait for destiny 2/battlefront 2/cod?", which belong to series that a shooter fan most likely have experience with and know what to expect/anticipate.
I dont envy Lawbreakers. Its stuck between a rock and a hard place. And it doesnt have that pop that makes people divert their eyes to it. PUBG has that pop for example. if it was f2p, you would have more people atleast give it a shot. But from the sounds of it not even the betas were enough to help its word of mouth.
It feels like alotta love went into lawbreakers. Its a shame theres so much great competition that it was sent to die.
Just stay away from the political threads and it's fine. It's great...
Ok, maybe not...
Woo-Fu
Banned
See? Proof. People can't tell the difference between a MOBA and an arena shooter, can't expect them to tell the differences between two arena shooters.
Overwatch has no PvE, no economy, no items, no character leveling. All the things that make MOBA MOBA? Overwatch has none of them. It has characters with abilities, something that predates both MOBAs and arena shooters.
Next you'll be telling me Action Quake is much closer to a casual, first-person MOBA than an actual arena shooter like Quake.
Exploratory
Banned
This video was depressing.
TheRedSnifit
Member
An actual arena shooter is a shooter where everyone spawns with the same weak loadout and must pick up items scattered around the maps to become stronger. When you die, you respawn with the same weak loadout again. Last time I checked, Overwatch has you select between pre-defined loadouts with varying attributes and equipment, and doesn't allow you to pick up weapons from the environment. It doesn't even fit the loosest definition of the term; it's not fast, it doesn't have a focus on map pickups, and the map design is different. The only similarity is that it isn't a boots-grounded shooter like CoD.
Note that I never said Overwatch is a MOBA, but that it is closer to being a MOBA than an arena shooter (it was more a commentary on your misuse of the term "arena shooter" than anything). No, it isn't a MOBA but it obviously and deliberately draws elements from the MOBA genre, which is currently the big thing, specifically from that genre's emphasis on economies (ultimates), cooldowns, AoEs, etc. The characters are pretty blatantly first-person packaged MOBA characters. Most of the elements you might see in an actual arena shooter have been overhauled to work as MOBA-styled cooldowns; High movement speed has been turned into Tracer's cooldown-based blink, Pharah's rocket jumping has been turned into Pharah's cooldown-based boost, there are even cooldown-based aimbots and wallhacks if you want them. If you compare it to TF2, a similar-ish shooter with a direct lineage to Quake, the MOBA influences on Overwatch become obvious.
I don't think I've encountered anyone literally referring to the game as a MOBA, certainly not enough to warrant a post about it. If it bothers you that people say the game has MOBA-like elements, then, I dunno, calm down?
It isn't
oh god, the bit where he keeps saying "non of that 60 dollars for a MP game bullshit" word for word about 20 times in different interviews is super cringy.
i get the impression this should have stayed free to play, more people might have been playing it then at least? hell, if the poor sales keep up it might even go back to being free to play in a few months?
i get the impression this should have stayed free to play, more people might have been playing it then at least? hell, if the poor sales keep up it might even go back to being free to play in a few months?
Nocturno999
Member
I like Cliffy but the persistent Overwatch comparisons and douchey comments didn't helped his game at all.
Just like Titanfall 2 and others, quality games not making it in an oversaturated market. I kind of wish the FPS genre enters a long hiatus.
Just like Titanfall 2 and others, quality games not making it in an oversaturated market. I kind of wish the FPS genre enters a long hiatus.
TheRazielim
Member
So what's really productive here, crying about the use of that meme for the rest of eternity, or enjoying the videos on their own merit? Yes, that meme was in poor taste, but I enjoyed majority of the E3 video otherwise, just as I have enjoyed many of the other videos. This meme has nothing to do with LawBreakers video.
It's incredibly sad; a lot of people worked their arses off to get this game made and were let down by the people in charge who wanted a slice of the Overwatch pie and I can see the same happening to the people working on the plethora of incoming high fantasy card games. The market is pretty much tapped out for both of these subgenres. The reason why Battlefield and Call of Duty can co-exist is because they are drastically different games in the same subgenre. They feel different, they look different and they play very differently.
The entire marketing direction for this game has been shoddy, however. Calling out the fans who bought your games and made you a millionaire? Repeatedly throwing shade at competitors and then making the same design decisions as them? Rubbish.
The entire marketing direction for this game has been shoddy, however. Calling out the fans who bought your games and made you a millionaire? Repeatedly throwing shade at competitors and then making the same design decisions as them? Rubbish.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Cliffy B's a horrible marketer. Someone should have reeled him in because none of that brash talk sold more, but I guarantee it kept a number of people away.
Feels like Quake Champions is going to be the next casualty. The kind of contradictory messaging for that game very much mirrors that of Lawbreakers.
What's worse, if Quake Champions underperforms, Bethesda is probably going to take that as consumers not wanting any more Quake games.
"Please don't remind me that the creator of this video uses racist memes from alt-right/White Supremacy-communities to be funny, this has nothing to do with it!"
Yes, it does. If you link yourself to racist shitbags for comedic purposes (and never even attempt to apologize or take it back) then people will continue to link you to racist shitbags.
looks like a cool game, i'd have dived right in on f2p. and throw $30 at 'complete edition' or whatever if i like what i played
seems like they got caught up in their own hype
Dwight Schrute
Member
Whaaa ?
Chip N Chance
Member
I think Cliff's tweet about Gaf was right, just by perusing this thread.
Hazardous Metal
Member
This video reinforced everything that already made me dislike Cliffy. How arrogant and pretentious can one man be? Dear LORD haha.
cliffy b getting caught up in his own hype? who would have thought...lol
i agree though, i'd have definitely checked it out if it was free to play.
Abilidebob
Member
I mean, I don't know if we watched different videos, but as I said earlier, this video made me interested in the game. I didn't really feel like he was taking a jab at the "game" in particular, just the whole marketing and CliffBlezonkas' way of talking. The video felt kinda... melancholic I guess? It showed a pretty interesting game but that's going to fade into obscurity because of the marketing and market saturation, not because of the quality of the game itself.
qa_engineer
Member
So did they think people wouldn't see this as just another hero/class based shooter? I mean there was a closed and open beta. Doesn't matter what type of marketing spin you put on it, that's exactly what it is.
He gave me a beta key for Gears once. Dude was alright.
As for Law Breakers I guess I'll never get to play it since I have an xbox but it looks fun. If it came out in the UT days though it would've been massive. Maybe it just missed its window.
Id be curious to see if they stick with it like Rocket League and WarFrame as they say in the video. Maybe it'll catch on.
Let me help you with something. This is way offtopic so I apologize. But you brought this up and even doubled down on it later on.
You are probably referring to the Force Awakens Plinkett review where they say "diversity is a fine thing" and "remember those idiots who wanted to boycott the movie for having female and black leads" "It's great that we have three new heroes that are different than the previous generations." In what way is this being against diversity? And they also point out with a positive tone that there are all kind of races and genders on both sides of the conflict in the movie. If you don't still understand where your assumption is wrong, please PM me and I'll try to explain it again.
Well actually, I'm happy about any exposure this game gets. And honestly, if you aren't already hating Cliffy this video probably wont make you do so. And actually there's been few people in Gaf who actually bought the game because of this video. The video isn't actually making fun of the game at all. What it does though is edit some of these clips for the sake of humour. Like he usually does. But it doesn't paint the game in a negative light in itself.
I understand that we are few, but we also exist who have played CS:GO and Overwatch but just don't enjoy them very much. But Lawbreakers scratches the itch we have for shooters. And PUBG doesn't offer that experience either, far from it. I have no interest in the game. No matter how much it's hyped and how many people play it, it's just not what I want and I know exactly what it is. But many people unfortunately have no idea what Lawbreakers actually is, which is why we see the constant Overwatch comparisons. And they don't really care to find out either. Like we have people here arguing that the devs haven't made it clear what the differences are. They have, but all people talk about is the "anime crowd" quote. Like that would be some kind of personal attack. This stands out and people ignore all the other apparent differences so it gets drowned. It's not the fault of Cliff really, it's the people spreading it like it would be some kind of shade against Overwatch when it's not.
But you are absolutely right that it's a tough market to get into. And even Cliff knows this as shown even in this video. They never intended to be the biggest, but they expected to survive.
How is this his fault that he gets asked about those differences and people keep calling it an Overwatch clone? He does say himself that there's not much similarity besides both have characters with weapons. And people want to lump them together because of that. That's because Overwatch is something these people know and think that it's actually very original game. BossKey made deliberate decisions to distance themselves from the competition art and gameplay wise.
This hasn't happened. It's mindblowing that we have people claiming they didn't make the differences clear. And then we have people who think that when they were talking about those differences they were throwing shade. Like what the hell people. Gamers themselves are truly the bane of this industry.
I feel like I have to say this but as a black man these racist memes on his previous video was in poor taste yes but tame at best. But I'm not going to label this guy a racist or neo-nazi because of them.
I feel like the world has gone crazy with peoples need to go to the extremes to label everyone as the enemy instead of having meaningful discourse, the world is not that simple.
Back to the video at hand, I know Cliffy B is insufferable at the best of times but this video was super brutal!!! He tried to compete with established titles but failed, it happens with a lot of titles these days. It's just strange that he thought he could take a piece of Overwatch's pie when that game is as established as it is.
I feel like the world has gone crazy with peoples need to go to the extremes to label everyone as the enemy instead of having meaningful discourse, the world is not that simple.
Back to the video at hand, I know Cliffy B is insufferable at the best of times but this video was super brutal!!! He tried to compete with established titles but failed, it happens with a lot of titles these days. It's just strange that he thought he could take a piece of Overwatch's pie when that game is as established as it is.
Chairmanchuck
Member
The game doesnt have anything to do with Overwatch though. That people still think it is the case shows how much the marketing failed.
Atraveller
Banned
You can go away with that shit patronizing tone.
How can you be soooo close timestamp wise, and still miss it? After mentioning races and genders on both sides in "positive tone", he said he was ok with them being diverse but not "annoyingly diverse" (as if that was a thing), and all of this diverse casting was the doing of corporate Disney, and the Star Wars of old was "immune to whole race and gender thing", "No one cares about diversity except those who were obsessed with it.". Mike shits on the desire for fictional role model or representation, and he does it again in Wonder Woman's review. Sure he may think white supremacists and MRA ridiculous, but he's entirely incapable of viewing the world in a different perspective other than his white male privilege.
What I got from marketing and the videos I watched was the main selling point is that its a classed based shooter ala TF2 and Overwatch with the only differentiator being the predominant anti-gravity elements. Is that really enough to be a variable alternative in an already stated saturated market?
Soul of the Beast
Member
No way this is real, it can't be.
Do you happen to look like this in real life too?
Seriosuly, you need to lighten up a bit.
thatoldlimey
Member
Wouldn't surprise me. Currently, 48 people are watching this on twitch.
Sad really, it is a good game, and I want it to do well as I have friends who work on this game. But it's not looking good atm for them.
Saoshyant
Member
It's not fake and there's a reason for it: Bethesda just gave the game away yesterday for free. Earlier this week, the player peak in Brink was apparently just four people.
Of course if you are giving a game away for free, some people will try it out.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
This thread is the dark souls of forums
Foxy the Fox
Member
Indeed
Guys, the dude just came to a crowbcat video thread saying that he found the video entertaining and that even after that shitty joke, he still love the guy for all the fun time he got and that's perfectly valid.
Is kinda shitty to attack people who come to a específic thread to say that they enjoy this specific thing.
The poster even knew that people were discussing old stuff here and that's why he put that "in out" thing, because is a pain to have to deal people like this who feel angry to people who doesn't feel that angry.
Is ok to create awareness and is important, but you don't have to go to those lengths and start patrolling a thread about a YouTube video game video.
And no, I am not a white guy before you asume.
No.
He didn't come into the thread to simply say he enjoyed the video.
He specifically came into the thread to say that he enjoyed the video despite the racism, in a way that mocks other people in the thread for giving a damn.
If you make it a point to let people know that you don't care about someone making a racist joke, it isn't "shitty" to then call the person out on it.
Okay, racist defense force.