M

mlclmtckr

Banned

• Oct 19, 2017

• #351

#rashamon is fucked up because he's calling her a liar, absolving himself of responsibility, and invoking a movie where someone is lying about rape.

But it's also, like, the movie you would bring up if you were trying to make that point. It's a bad, privileged, oblivious point, but it's the correct movie reference.

It's not a "lol you are Asian" thing. If you first heard about Rashamon in this forum thread maybe tone it down with the takes.

 

M

Messofanego

Banned

• Oct 19, 2017

• #352

SillyEskimo said:

He apologized to her privately. That’s the only apology that matters IMO and it’s merit can only be judged by the offended party. Cross doesn’t owe anyone else a damn thing.

Click to expand...

What was Charlyne Yi's response?

 

F

frequency

Member

• Oct 19, 2017

• #353

SillyEskimo said:

He apologized to her privately. That’s the only apology that matters IMO and it’s merit can only be judged by the offended party. Cross doesn’t owe anyone else a damn thing.

Click to expand...

The public doesn't owe him a "damn thing" either. She went public with this and he responded publicly and that's what the public will use to determine their opinion about him.

 

R

Real Hero

Member

• Oct 19, 2017

• #354

Stanhope told story of meeting this guy for the first time, seems like a real prick

 

S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative

• Oct 19, 2017

• #355

Real Hero said:

Stanhope told story of meeting this guy for the first time, seems like a real prick

Click to expand...

I've met and worked with him and had the opposite experience. He was friendly, polite and not "Hollywood" but my anecdote isn't worth any more than Doug's I guess.

 

M

Messofanego

Banned

• Oct 19, 2017

• #356

Real Hero said:

Stanhope told story of meeting this guy for the first time, seems like a real prick

Click to expand...

Link? If Doug thinks he's a prick, he must be really bad.

 

W

Wrestlemania

Banned

• Oct 19, 2017

• #357

I met David Cross at a music festival once. He was really nice - we spoke about Mr Show and I mentioned that I hadn’t seen much of it because it wasn’t available to buy in the U.K. He took my email address, and eventually he emailed me for my address and sent me what he said was his personal copy of one of the seasons on DVD with a nice handwritten note.
Not that it means he couldn’t have been an asshole to countless other people, obviously.

 

B

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard

• Oct 19, 2017

• #358

is this a part of the avalanche of celebrity rapist outings taking place lately? or has it been expanded to any kind of perceived misconduct or slight being litigated on twitter and facebook?

 

L

L Thammy

Member

• Oct 19, 2017

• #359

I'm not really familiar with David Cross outside of Tobias Fünke (and I'm pretty tepid towards Arrested Development to be honest) so maybe this doesn't apply, but:

I think a lot of people take the "one of the good ones" perspective of themselves when making jokes. Irony's a dangerous game even when you're trying to do it well with because having good intentions doesn't stop you from normalizing thoughts and behaviours. You have to make extra sure; my family jokes about our own race(s) when we're together but I wouldn't risk telling some of those same jokes in front of an audience.

Still, a lot of people get it into their mind that they're using their jokes to fight racism and their intention is good, and that eventually becomes viewed as a license to make offensive jokes, no matter how little thought was put into them or who the joke is actually mocking in reality.

Not saying this justifies anything he does, but in the case that this was something he did when he was high and can't remember, and if this is something he wouldn't do when sober, maybe that would make it more difficult for him to accept. Like, you've been telling yourself that your jokes have been okay because you're the good guy, and so accepting that maybe they aren't always okay throw them all into question.

 

T

televator

Member

• Oct 19, 2017

• #360

Questioning whether an Asian American person can speak English and going “Ching chong ching chong” seems like a hard thing to misremember unless someone was blackout drunk/high as a kite.

 

I

IggyChooChoo

Member

• Oct 19, 2017

• #361

Stinkles said:

BTW, Cross should realize that if he's going to invoke Rashomon, then that makes her story true - that she witnessed/experienced his racism just as she described. If you're going to invoke that analogy then you also have to accept that she was right, that she WAS offended by racism, and that should have made his apology unreserved:

"I screwed up and said something horribly racist and while that may not have been my intention, that's what I did and I have to do better."

Click to expand...

This is a good take. I can believe he was doing some kind of edgy bit in a state of inebriation. But even so, the person making the joke is the one taking the risk, and is therefore also the one bearing responsibility when they fuck up. That's partly why making jokes is fun -- it's a gamble with an instant payoff. But if you're willing to accept people's laughter as a reward for your joke, you also have the responsibility to take ownership when you hurt someone, even if (being charitable here) you didn't mean to. To his discredit, he has done nothing to take responsibility here. But that said, it's not like David Cross has ever come across as a guy with a ton of empathy. I can't say I'm totally surprised that the guy who did Shut Up You Fucking Baby is overly defensive and dismissive. Hopefully this isn't the end and he'll soon own up to having fucked up in a more genuine way.

 

L

L Thammy

Member

• Oct 19, 2017

• #362

SillyEskimo said:

He apologized to her privately. That’s the only apology that matters IMO and it’s merit can only be judged by the offended party. Cross doesn’t owe anyone else a damn thing.

Click to expand...

Fair enough, but there are terrible private apologies too.

 

ModBot

Not a mod, just a bot.

• Oct 19, 2017

• #363

Not much more to talk about here.