Some places value work life balance genuinely, and some use it as a PR point while they gin up excuses to fire people who don't work more than 40 hours a week and use more than a handful of vacation days.
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Fired for using personal days?
- Thread starter TaterTots
- Start date
Some places value work life balance genuinely, and some use it as a PR point while they gin up excuses to fire people who don't work more than 40 hours a week and use more than a handful of vacation days.
Wow this thread has opened my eyes to how good I have it here in the UK. I get 32.5 paid days off every year plus the 8 bank holidays also paid. I also get up to 6 months paid sick leave, this isnt a brag btw its fairly standard for uk workers unless you are a teacher in which case you get way more holidays.
Zoe
Member
Yeah, it's a tough position to be in when you're a teacher. Probably best to bank all the hours, either for future FMLA or for a future role in administration.
Randolph Freelander
Member
It's not like we're working without paid days off, it's just a question of it being mandated (it's left to the "invisible hand of the free market").
Personally, I get 35 paid days off per year, between PTO and recognized holidays.
DOWN
Banned
At companies like Disney and Universal here in Orlando, you can call out for personal or sick and wont be punished for using one or the other, so long as you dont go over a certain number of points you manage. Literally no trouble at all for calling in a personal day the same day you want to use it as long as youve got them stocked up.
Just depends on the company.
I had a similar problem with my previous manager. I had a few days PTO slotted for one week. The week prior I ended up sick and missed 2 days of work. I still took my PTO days as they were planned well in advanced and I had plans with my family. I get back and I get written up for taking too many days off and the reasoning used was being unfair to my teammates(who themselves had no problems with me being out). I was extremely mad and threatened to go straight to HR for being bullied for using my given PTO time. Eventually I got them off my back and I ended up getting a new manager who is much more reasonable about it. I played with the idea of finding a new job but having a new born, I needed my benefits and couldn't risk looking elsewhere as most positions for what I do start off as contract. Was a stressful month until she left.
YuriLowell
Member
If you are in the states and not in a union you are pretty much boned.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
In some Industries, it definitely can feel that way. (e.g if you work for a farmer and aren't family or friend)
I dont think it is mandated in the uk apart from a minimum. Im sure legally if you are working full time you need to have at least 20 days paid vacation a year plus the 8 days bank holidays. Most companies will give you more than that though. US sounds like a potential shit show.
dragonyeuw
Member
WTF is this shit? That sounds horrible!!
LOL OK kid.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Only in America.
Well, probably some other countries too, but over here in Sweden this would be illegal as shit.
Well, probably some other countries too, but over here in Sweden this would be illegal as shit.
n64coder
Member
People who are complaining about America's vacation policy and that they have it better in Europe should state what kind of position they have.
In the US, most people who are professionals will usually have a decent vacation/sick policy. The OP worked in a call center which is different from most professional careers. Since the call center probably have quality metrics to adhere to, OP taking a personal after being away on vacation probably put them in a lurch.
This means the manager has to find someone to cover his shift on short notice or they don't bother and instead, the wait queue is longer. This increases customer dissatisfaction which may affect the call center getting their contract renewed or they have to pay performance penalties.
As a software developer, I generally have freedom to take vacation time whenever I want but I don't dare do so if I'm involved in a critical phase on a project.
So I would like to hear from folks in Europe who work retail or in a restaurant or in a call center to describe what their vacation policy is like.
In the US, most people who are professionals will usually have a decent vacation/sick policy. The OP worked in a call center which is different from most professional careers. Since the call center probably have quality metrics to adhere to, OP taking a personal after being away on vacation probably put them in a lurch.
This means the manager has to find someone to cover his shift on short notice or they don't bother and instead, the wait queue is longer. This increases customer dissatisfaction which may affect the call center getting their contract renewed or they have to pay performance penalties.
As a software developer, I generally have freedom to take vacation time whenever I want but I don't dare do so if I'm involved in a critical phase on a project.
So I would like to hear from folks in Europe who work retail or in a restaurant or in a call center to describe what their vacation policy is like.
It's Jeff
Banned
I can answer the FMLA question. You're allotted a specified amount based on your doctor's recommendation. You can use as much time as you need, but it depletes your pto bank. Once you're at zero, the remaining time off is unpaid. Used it all the time when I worked at a call center because, well, I hated the job.
That's the thing, still around 5 weeks (pro rata) paid holiday plus paid sick day generally regardless of position.
Things are different for people who are self employed or plumbers/electricians etc. They are often in the position of not working = not paid
Working in retail or at a cinema I still got weeks and weeks of paid holiday and was paid when sick.
As a medical secretary I now get the same plus more holiday, extra accrued holidays when I don't take sick leave.
All bank holidays are also paid if they fall on contracted work days
https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights
SomedayTheFire
Member
This is pathetic holy shit. I'm so glad Ireland has mandatory 20 days paid holidays.
Ireland has a guaranteed 20 days paid time off no matter what the job is. Sick leave varies but there's generally no limit if proof can be provided.
dragonyeuw
Member
Here's a few interesting articles on European vs US benefits:
https://www.fastcompany.com/3056830/how-the-us-employee-benefits-compare-to-europe
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/06/08/countries-most-vacation-days/2400193/
There's a bunch more articles similar to this, but overall the general idea is that European countries tend to offer more vacation and overall benefits regardless of their field of work.
Update for those wondering. I'm settled in. This morning I had an interview and the job was extended on the spot. Mon. I have to go take a drug test that's scheduled. Good news is that it pays over $4 more an hour than I was making previously. I feel really fortunate and lucky. To all of those who quoted me, I do apologize I didn't respond, but I was super stressed out and didn't wan't to deal with judgement.
For those of you who pm'ed me, I really appreciate the support. Also, I appreciate the people wishing me the best in this thread. Thanks a lot.
For those of you who pm'ed me, I really appreciate the support. Also, I appreciate the people wishing me the best in this thread. Thanks a lot.
andythinkpad
Member
Glad to hear everything work out.
Glad to hear everything worked man.
CaviarMeths
Member
More accurately, I think it depends on whether or not someone needs to be called in to cover your shift.
GoldenEye 007
Member
I mean, you pretty much are. You are at the mercy of company policy and sparse laws that protect employees. It's an employer's world and employees have little to no rights in the US. That's the prevailing reality. Even in abuse/harassment situations - the reality is that employees have very little recourse to defend themselves or speak out.
Obviously some jobs have contracts where terms can truly be negotiated and adhered to on both sides. Or unions.
Electric Eye
Banned
I'm in a union and can confirm. OP would have already gotten his job back after he filed a grievance and the union stepped in, tops he would have been out a few days while shit got sorted out and then allowed back with back pay for some or most of the days he lost. Had it happened while under contract negotiations the entire union would have done a concerted activity i.e. a walk out till the member got his job back. In fact he would have never even been fucked with from the get go because no manager wants to deal with a grievance and what comes with it there is always a solution . You non union workers can lol all you want but keep walking on those egg shells at your work place hoping not to piss off the wrong manager.
I get 30 days annual leave entitlement, and honestly, sometimes that doesn't feel like enough. Can't imagine how bad I'd burn out taking 2 days in a whole feckin year.
That's not to say there aren't some shitty exploitative practices here too. I was just speaking to a young guy the other day who has started a job in direct sales. Officially speaking, he's off the unemployment figures, working for a big telecoms company selling broadband - he did a 10 hour day the other day, but they are classing things he effectively *has* to do to work as 'voluntary networking', 'date nights', etc. They are avoiding paying him a basic minimum wage.
Since people are discussing their holidays/pto etc here I'll chime in too.
Work in China in a professional role. Technically I work week is 6 days on 1 day off. We get all the national holidays off, ie, Spring Festival - about 7 days, National Day - about 7 days, other random holidays here and there that are just one day. I also get 20 days paid vacation I can take when I want. Though I can't take all together in one lump. I get one round trip flight to USA (home country) paid for each year by the company I can use at my discretion.
In reality I often work 7 days per week (July I worked every day but 1!) but a lot of my job involves travel. Been to USA twice this year, also Spain, France, Indonesia (x2), Korea (x3), Hong Kong (a few weeks in total), Singapore (x2), Malaysia (x1), and a bunch of places in China.
I haven't used any of my 20 days paid leave this year or my paid discretionary flight home. I'll probably take it around Christmas if I have time since it doesn't carry over to next year.
In some ways it seems like I have a lot of days off and all my flights around the world have been paid for by the company, but it's always traveling for work so it's not quite the same as taking a holiday and getting paid to sit around and do nothing.
I'm not sure if I am lucky or unlucky in this scenario. Not complaining though. I'm definitely glad I'm not in a call center and getting fired for taking a day off.
Work in China in a professional role. Technically I work week is 6 days on 1 day off. We get all the national holidays off, ie, Spring Festival - about 7 days, National Day - about 7 days, other random holidays here and there that are just one day. I also get 20 days paid vacation I can take when I want. Though I can't take all together in one lump. I get one round trip flight to USA (home country) paid for each year by the company I can use at my discretion.
In reality I often work 7 days per week (July I worked every day but 1!) but a lot of my job involves travel. Been to USA twice this year, also Spain, France, Indonesia (x2), Korea (x3), Hong Kong (a few weeks in total), Singapore (x2), Malaysia (x1), and a bunch of places in China.
I haven't used any of my 20 days paid leave this year or my paid discretionary flight home. I'll probably take it around Christmas if I have time since it doesn't carry over to next year.
In some ways it seems like I have a lot of days off and all my flights around the world have been paid for by the company, but it's always traveling for work so it's not quite the same as taking a holiday and getting paid to sit around and do nothing.
I'm not sure if I am lucky or unlucky in this scenario. Not complaining though. I'm definitely glad I'm not in a call center and getting fired for taking a day off.
I've worked in a call center for years. Calling out is a regular occurrence and I've never seen anyone get fired for it. It's usually easier to call out in a call center environment because just having one person out that day isn't going to kill the team. Happens all the time the company I work for
It doesn't depend on your position though, a minimum of vacation days is required by law, they don't depend on your position lr have to be earned somehow. In germany the minimum is 20 vacation days (or 24 if you work a six day week because the law gives everyone 4 weeks off) plus a dozen holidays (can be slightly less or more depending on which state you're in as holidays are mostly decided on the state level).
The vast majority of companies gives their employees more than the required 20 days though but even in a worst case scenario 4 weeks of paid vacation are guaranteed.
I get 36 vavation days and you better believe I take them all and if for some reason I don't my boss will remind me that I have to, that's just how it is.