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Suikoguy · Mar 2, 2015

Pizarro said:
It would be swell if this led to PD's not hiring the dumbest most brutish applicants for the job.

Would be nice, but they want people who don't question anything.

Volimar · Mar 2, 2015

Derwind said:
Just to add to your post.

I understand if others do not want to form an opinion until some far off arbitrary number of facts all conclude the same thing that we all feel, seen and heard before.

Thats perfectly valid.

But don't shit on other or derail a topic because you feel like everyone must adhere to waiting for 10 million pieces of irrefutable evidence before getting involved in a discussion of issues involving minority communities and how certain institutions interact with them.

I think most of the wait for the facts people aren't looking for 10 million pieces of irrefutable evidence but are instead posting as a reaction to the people who pop into threads with their "fuck the police" posts without even reading the OP. Then they are called diet racists and are accused of derailing the thread when in reality most of them simply want to know the whole story instead of assuming that every officer involved shooting is because of racist murderous officer's. I'm not a police cheerleader, my sister was shot and killed by an officer and I am raising her son. But when you blame every shooting on officers out for the blood of minorities it weakens your credibility on the occasion that the shooting was justified and the real police apologists will point to those to make you seem like you are the one out for blood. I also find it somewhat distasteful that people will use someone's unfortunate death to try to fit their own narrative before they even know what really happened.

Institutional racism absolutely exists. Police unions and prosecutors make it very difficult to change the way that police conduct themselves and they insulate officers from being held responsible. This all has to change and sadly I think it will only come when the DoJ forces them to.

Random Painted HIghway · Mar 2, 2015

CambriaRising said:
Not surprised by these findings, but I am surprised they actually let us know about them.

You realize these stats have been out for quite some time now?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympl...-stopped-by-the-police-in-ferguson#.wfXEx3zrR

Let's see if the doj has come up with something in this other than a list of required fixes by using mo ag compiled data.

Volimar · Mar 2, 2015

Random Painted HIghway said:
You realize these stats have been out for quite some time now?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympl...-stopped-by-the-police-in-ferguson#.wfXEx3zrR

Let's see if the doj has come up with something in this other than a list of required fixes by using mo ag compiled data.

The difference is that they are acting on them.

Amir0x · Mar 3, 2015

Random Painted HIghway said:
You realize these stats have been out for quite some time now?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympl...-stopped-by-the-police-in-ferguson#.wfXEx3zrR

Let's see if the doj has come up with something in this other than a list of required fixes by using mo ag compiled data.

The problem still exists, is quite clearly demonstrably still severe, and this is them acting on it - by definition it's going to either force the Police Department to settle with the Justice Department or to allow themselves to get sued in civil court.

This is a real surprise that the Department actually allowed themselves to pursue this fully and didn't try to suppress any more negative findings that could have further exasperate anger as is always the risk.

nib95 · Mar 3, 2015

This should be in the OP.

EscoBlades · Mar 3, 2015

Miles Quaritch said:
I mean, we can't look at this information and not factor in things like dehumanising driving and furtive steering.

It's all about finding the right context through which to view these findings.

Well played!

justjohn · Mar 3, 2015

I still find it extraordinary really that this country still promotes the idea that it citizens are free and that they somehow have the right to dictate to other countries on how they should behave.

BobTheFork · Mar 3, 2015

If they are going to use stop and search numbers for this, the NYPD must be ripe for a lawsuit.

theignoramus · Mar 3, 2015

justjohn said:
I still find it extraordinary really that this country still promotes the idea that it citizens are free and that they somehow have the right to dictate to other countries on how they should behave.

I remember seeing a chart posted in OT that compared black American socio-economic and health indicators to other countries, the results were alarming and sad. Underfunded schools and a racially biased system of law enforcement, sounds like a fair and and ideal scenario in one's pursuit of happiness.

Enron · Mar 3, 2015

1000% not surprised. If you poked at any PD in the country, you'd likely find numbers similar to this.

El Odio · Mar 3, 2015

So if the the PD opts to just pay a settlement then what? The whole thing gets brushed over?

justjohn · Mar 4, 2015

theignoramus said:
I remember seeing a chart posted in OT that compared black American socio-economic and health indicators to other countries, the results were alarming and sad. Underfunded schools and a racially biased system of law enforcement, sounds like a fair and and ideal scenario in one's pursuit of happiness.

Dont expect the media to talk about it though. If this was some minority in india and china they would get on their high horse and preach about how they should be more tolerant and open like America

Angelus Errare · Mar 4, 2015

justjohn said:
Dont expect the media to talk about it though. If this was some minority in india and china they would get on their high horse and preach about how they should be more tolerant and open like America

Oh the media will talk about it, just not in the way everyone expects.

"Stop blaming others!"
"Racism is over, everyone has a fair chance at life"
"Bootstraps!"
"Let's talk about the black on black violence"

DontBeThatGuy · Mar 4, 2015

benjipwns · Mar 4, 2015

Byakuya769 said:
Can the Justice Department find me the jurisdiction where this ISN'T true? Would probably be the more challenging exercise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allendale,_Missouri

PHOENIXZERO · Mar 4, 2015

I'd like to say I'm going to "love" reading the comments on how the poor police officers are being discriminated against by Obama in a racist witch hunt against "our heroes in blue" but I stopped following my locals news on Facebook months ago and it's made me slightly happier for doing so.

Gattsu25 · Mar 4, 2015

nib95 said:
This should be in the OP.

Holy shit @ ~~some of those. Especially the last one.~~ all of those

Edit: the heck? The mobile site won't let me close a ~~tag?~~

Log4Girlz · Mar 4, 2015

Put the entire police department in jail for a long time.

King Tubby · Mar 4, 2015

The saddest part is that you could probably substitute the vast majority of cities for "Ferguson". This particular PD only gets the spotlight because someone died unjustly and people didn't just shrug it off, ignore it, and let it go.

Africanus said:
While it may appear obvious to everyone here, statistics of racial discrimination is necessary because it provides objective, undeniable evidence of what may be denied by anecdotal stories.

These results are unsurprising, these results are tragic, but these results are empirical.

Agreed.

Derwind said:
I understand if others do not want to form an opinion until some far off arbitrary number of facts all conclude the same thing that we all feel, seen and heard before.

Thats perfectly valid.

But don't shit on other or derail a topic because you feel like everyone must adhere to waiting for 10 million pieces of irrefutable evidence before getting involved in a discussion of issues involving minority communities and how certain institutions interact with them.

Be reasonable, I can recall a few threads on this forum over the past few months about an officer shooting where people immediately leapt to outrage and over the course of hours to a day it turned out that the shooting was justified or, at least, not so egregious as it first seemed.

Trying to take a position that the issue of police abuse is overblown or that racial discrimination doesn't occur is laughably ignorant and indefensible. However, wanting to wait for the facts on a case-by-case basis is just common sense, if only because media reports immediately after an event are notoriously unreliable. Jumping to outrage every single time a shooting occurs without some consideration of circumstance or evidence just dilutes outrage when it comes to clear cut police abuses and atrocities.

RastaMentality · Mar 4, 2015

@AntonioFrench: Keep in mind most people (almost all black) ticketed or arrested by Ferguson, weren't residents. Just driving through. http://t.co/PAaDWmv1H7

.

wildfire · Mar 4, 2015

King Tubby said:
The saddest part is that you could probably substitute the vast majority of cities for "Ferguson". This particular PD only gets the spotlight because someone died unjustly and people didn't just shrug it off, ignore it, and let it go.

Michael Brown is quite similar to this. You are right that a combination of the injustice and the reaction played a hand but there is a third element at play here.

Lime · Mar 4, 2015

WOW:

In a November 2008 email, a city official said Barack Obama would not be president long because what black man holds a steady job for four years? Another email included a cartoon depicting African-Americans as monkeys. A third described black women having abortions as a way to curb crime.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/04/u...s-and-excessive-force-in-ferguson.html?ref=us

theignoramus · Mar 4, 2015

For Mr. Holder, the case has been deeply personal. He spoke about conversations he had as a boy with his father about what to do when stopped by the police. And he described his own experience as the victim of racial profiling. Such comments drew the ire of police groups who said Mr. Holder, the nations first black attorney general, was fueling anti-police sentiment in minority neighborhoods.

What.the.fuck.

benjipwns · Mar 4, 2015

DOJ says no biggie, time to move on:

The Justice Department announced it will not pursue federal civil rights charges against Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Missouri police officer who fatally shot an unarmed man.

The Justice Department also will not immediately press charges against the Ferguson Police Department.

Instead, the DOJ says it will work towards a settlement with city officials to deal with significant constitutional violations outlined in a report released Wednesday.

J10 · Mar 4, 2015

What the powers that be think of black people.

PopeReal · Mar 4, 2015

Volimar said:
I think most of the wait for the facts people aren't looking for 10 million pieces of irrefutable evidence but are instead posting as a reaction to the people who pop into threads with their "fuck the police" posts without even reading the OP. Then they are called diet racists and are accused of derailing the thread when in reality most of them simply want to know the whole story instead of assuming that every officer involved shooting is because of racist murderous officer's. I'm not a police cheerleader, my sister was shot and killed by an officer and I am raising her son. But when you blame every shooting on officers out for the blood of minorities it weakens your credibility on the occasion that the shooting was justified and the real police apologists will point to those to make you seem like you are the one out for blood. I also find it somewhat distasteful that people will use someone's unfortunate death to try to fit their own narrative before they even know what really happened.

Institutional racism absolutely exists. Police unions and prosecutors make it very difficult to change the way that police conduct themselves and they insulate officers from being held responsible. This all has to change and sadly I think it will only come when the DoJ forces them to.

The "fuck the police" thing is around because people are seeing that their has been no effort to change things. The police continually blame their communities and enviornment while deflecting criticism.

kame-sennin · Mar 4, 2015

PopeReal said:
The "fuck the police" thing is around because people are seeing that their has been no effort to change things. The police continually blame their communities and enviornment while deflecting criticism.

To wit:

theignoramus said:
For Mr. Holder, the case has been deeply personal. He spoke about conversations he had as a boy with his father about what to do when stopped by the police. And he described his own experience as the victim of racial profiling. Such comments drew the ire of police groups who said Mr. Holder, the nation’s first black attorney general, was fueling anti-police sentiment in minority neighborhoods.

Click to expand...

What.the.fuck.

Fuck the police.

Szu · Mar 4, 2015

Well, I, like so many others, am shocked.

PopeReal · Mar 4, 2015

J10 said:
What the powers that be think of black people.

What makes change so hard is that it is not just the powers that be. Many ordinary American citizens are indifferent or even celebrate the killing of black people by police. They think they deserved it and will always side with police.

Change is going to have to come from all directions. People are going to have to care.

studyguy · Mar 4, 2015

There's a CNN story which is just fucking mindblowing.

Another jokes that made the rounds on Ferguson government email in May 2011 said: "An African American woman in New Orleans was admitted into the hospital for a pregnancy termination. Two weeks later she received a check for $3000. She phoned the hospital to ask who it was from. The hospital said: 'Crimestoppers.'"

Enzom21 · Mar 4, 2015

This whole thing reads like a bunch of Klansmen traded in their hoods and robes for badges and guns... I wouldn't be shocked if most police agencies were like this.

TalonJH · Mar 4, 2015

ElectricKaibutsu said:
I'm glad they released these findings. Hopefully this motivates other police departments to cool it on the racism as well.

It won't. People will just look at it and say that they are picking on the police again. Say something offensive and throw around the terms "race baiting" & "liberals" and call it a day.

norm9 · Mar 4, 2015

I don't see much changing. The police department is funded by metrics/stats. If they stop harassing and stop arresting, they're losing the argument that more funding and more police are needed and the police don't want that.

kame-sennin · Mar 4, 2015

Enzom21 said:
This whole thing reads like a bunch of Klansmen traded in their hoods and robes for badges and guns...

Well yeah, it's a police department.

Order · Mar 4, 2015

Fuck the police

Chie Satonaka · Mar 4, 2015

Enzom21 said:
This whole thing reads like a bunch of Klansmen traded in their hoods and robes for badges and guns... I wouldn't be shocked if most police agencies were like this.

I mean, why not?

One is illegal, one is government sanctioned.

I'd like people to keep in mind that Darren Wilson was previously part of a police department in MO that was shut down for the same thing. http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...c796f0-2a45-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html

I'd also like to remind people that if the Ferguson PD ends up being shut down, St. Louis County, which certainly isn't any better, would likely step in.

I don't see anything coming from this that has a win on it.

genjiZERO · Mar 4, 2015

I think the only way to solve police racism in the US is for the black community to deliberately take over the police force. Often positions like sheriff and chief of police are elected positions. Black people should actively try to take these positions. But furthermore, black people should make "policing" a goal of employment. In a place like Ferguson at least 67% of the police force should be black. I know there are lots of hurdles to overcome in this idea, but from a cultural level I think it would be a good goal. Because sadly, unless there is an actual revolution, things aren't going to change fast enough. There are too many ignorant and racist people in power, and we are a society founded upon the notion of racism.

benjipwns · Mar 4, 2015

One problem is that after you have this history with the police, why would you want to ever be associated with them, let alone spend every day working with them.

kame-sennin · Mar 5, 2015

genjiZERO said:
I think the only way to solve police racism in the US is for the black community to deliberately take over the police force. Often positions like sheriff and chief of police are elected positions. Black people should actively try to take these positions. But furthermore, black people should make "policing" a goal of employment. In a place like Ferguson at least 67% of the police force should be black. I know there are lots of hurdles to overcome in this idea, but from a cultural level I think it would be a good goal. Because sadly, unless there is an actual revolution, things aren't going to change fast enough. There are too many ignorant and racist people in power, and we are a society founded upon the notion of racism.

The police force as an institution is inherently racist. Black cops tend to be the most brutal, racist officers you'll run in to. You can't take an institution designed for repression and make it a force for good. It's like trying to make the KKK into the NAACP. It's not gonna happen.

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