-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
IGN Leaks: Guild Wars 2 core game going f2p, raids being added
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
SpiceMelange
Member
Here's hoping raids are actually interesting and not random crapfest dungeons are
I'd love to go back and play Guild Wars 2 again. Absolutely loved the first one. I haven't enjoyed MEANINGFUL exploration in a game since... when I used to play WoW? 1.0 / 2.0?
If they keep adding new areas, consistently, I'll come back and try it all out! Love me those jumping puzzles!
If they keep adding new areas, consistently, I'll come back and try it all out! Love me those jumping puzzles!
Kos Luftar
Member
Haven't posted this on the NCSoft assets page yet?
The pricing of the expansion has been pretty weird, especially compared to how expansions are usually done.... but if the base game is going free to play, then that's fantastic. It'll be a great incentive to get people to buy the expansion with how massive it is, and the game's structure is already set up like a Free to play game should they chose not to buy the expansion.
Yeah, it's all going to be dependent on how well they can mesh the group mechanics together. It has the potential to be REALLY awesome if it takes into account the newly revamped specialization system however.
Also I wonder what the size of these raids will be, and if there will be any scaling like the rest of GW2's content.
Yeah, it's all going to be dependent on how well they can mesh the group mechanics together. It has the potential to be REALLY awesome if it takes into account the newly revamped specialization system however.
Also I wonder what the size of these raids will be, and if there will be any scaling like the rest of GW2's content.
Dungeons without the trinity were rough enough. Took a lot of tweaking and rebalancing to get them to even be playable after the launch.
This guy who data-mines the GW2 client all the time caught this about a month ago.
More than likely the "Free" accounts are the trial account
What is this, an itinerary for ants?!
Angelus Errare
Banned
Yea pass on that, fucking GW2 dungeons suck ass without the trinity. I can't imagine doing raids without it.
th4tguy
Member
Unless they've added trinity system or something like it, I seriously question how well they can be designed.
It got screencapped from the IGN video
TemplaerDude
Member
What's this Trinity you guys keep going on about and how does it affect gameplay by not having it? I was considering jumping in on GW2 recently...
There are three roles in classic MMO design: Tank, Healer, and DPS.
Tanks have abilities to keep other players from taking damage, and staying alive.
Healers are self-explanatory.
DPS focus on damaging opponents.
This high-level set of roles provides a basic set of interesting mechanics that can be built on. Even in the most basic kind of encounter, everyone has their role to play.
If there are no roles, then it becomes much more difficult to design. How do you make an enemy strong enough to threaten one player but not wipe the party?
Kos Luftar
Member
If you guys that might not be following GW2 news want to know exactly what "raids" and free to play for Guild Wars 2 will be, check out the twitch stream from PAX this Saturday.
Here are the deets, https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2the-journey-ahead-at-pax-prime-2015/
Here are the deets, https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2the-journey-ahead-at-pax-prime-2015/
I too love GW1 better than 2
Ploid 3.0
Member
You will see it when it happens, if you keep reading news on games.
The problem that I feel GW2 has is that because there is no trinity, every boss mechanic is meant to be handled in 1 way: dodge roll. Gets boring after a while, even if there were some cool encounters in the game.
SimpleCRIPPLE
Member
Agreed. I hate that Blizzard is the only MMO dev that supports OS X with a quality client. So many other companies are content to try and convince people that a wrapper is good enough.
Its not.
fluffydelusions
Member
This.
I'm afraid it will just be like the large outdoor boss fights (read: zergs) like The Shatterer and Tequatl.
Yes I like the multiple way to level, I miss GW1 focus on skills though. Level Cap was 20, then everything was skill based.
I actually started playing GW2 again this week and noticed the GAF guild kicked me
TemplaerDude
Member
Interesting, apparently I need to read a lot more about this game. Sounds like they haven't really found a compelling alternative? I'm all for developers trying to break the mold, I think I'll give it a shot regardless, but I'd hope they're actively looking for new ways to play because it's sounding like, at least in here, they haven't accomplished that yet.
If there are raids I'll defiantly try it out again. Not sure how that works without the Trinity, but I'm game
It was the same for me, I have a max engineer and guardian (or maybe max, not sure if there has been a raise in the level cap) but then I would just flounder around at end game and quite (those 2 guys were leveled months apart)
That and parties in dungeons were an uncoordinated mess of people rolling around and sparkly lights everywhere lol (yes I am exaggerating)
Rilasciare
Member
Great game. Been playing since launch and still having a blast. Looking forward to see how these Raids are implemented. Though cautious on this free-to-play announcement.
Hope all turns out well.
Hope all turns out well.
No, I don't think anyone has accomplished breaking the holy trinity of MMOs. Even not-fantasy ones sometimes stick with the trinity if they are RPG-based.
It's just that if you don't have these roles it gets really messy and also just limits encounter design. Everyone gives WoW shit but even 3/4 expansions worth of raid content is hugely broad in variety and what certain roles are asked of, how much attention is demanded of them (e.g. tank/healer/dps "checks") or they play around with how roles work (DPS as a tank due to fight mechanics, etc.).
It's really something you have the experience because it's very much a distillation of teamwork and specialization that you rarely get in games, if anywhere else for a bunch of people that aren't the military, and you miss that going to "everyone is responsible for not dying on their own". I can't judge GW2 encounter design but from what little I've heard it doesn't sound that great.
Their original vision for the game was a soft trinity of damage, support, and control with the idea that you wouldn't need to wait around for specific class to fill a specific role because any class could modify their build to fill the gap. Recently (past couple of months) one of the developers stated that they had missed the mark on that goal, but are still trying to make it work.
Since several of the new elite specializations (talent trees) seem to focus more on support, healing, etc it seems they haven't given up the fight yet.
And for anyone who hasn't been following the game, I very seriously doubt raids are going to follow the standard MMO model. If you're curious check out the PAX stream on Saturday with the rest of us.
The lack of a trinity has led to the meta being that players build their characters towards maximum DPS, buffing each other for maximum DPS and dealing with enemy conditions. Players heal themselves (or revive downed teammates) and instead of a tank, players take care of themselves by dodging.
I think it's more fun that way. But they're adding taunt skills into the game so it makes me think that at the least there will be tanking after the expansion is introduced. By the way, as of now, some of the better players who know the content breeze through dungeons like it's nothing. I'm not sure how having the trinity could make it any easier. The focus on DPS means things die fast.
RipperGrim
Member
Well I hope the people who actually bought the game get compensated appropriately, last time I checked gold was already expensive as fuck for in game currency and I imagine it going through the roof now. It's disheartening as one thing I enjoyed about this game was that while it didn't have a sub it still felt like a premium game with everything being very fair with the cash shop and trading post.
They've re-stated that their intend was never to completely remove the Trinity but rather to create an environment where you'd rather have a 'soft' trinity where classes are not locked in a single role and where they can be easily switched for one or another.
Something along those lines.
That's not really a problem created by a 'lack' of trinity but rather by the way encounters are designed, and the rather poor AI used in those fights, some of the creatures in the last living story Season and in the Beta already show signs that going full DPS might not be the best Idea anymore, let's just hope whatever Raids end up being or whatever else they have in store when 'challenging content' is concerned follows the same path.
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
The 2-3 years old idea that people have of GW2's PvE is likely to be quite different than what PvE will likely be in GW2's expansion.
Boss design has been a lot better in recent patches, although that is only noticeable in open world and story instances yet.
The AI system is going to be revamped, and that is/ was the #1 problem for why the no-trinity gameplay was not working before.
The defiance system that exists in boss encounters to prevent stun-locks is getting revamped, in order to make CC and control roles more useful.
The new elite specialization system for each profession is going to strengthen individual roles and themes (still not going back to the rigid trinity system, however).
I have no idea how raids will end up being, but I wouldn't use 3-years old content as a way to judge the future of GW2.
Boss design has been a lot better in recent patches, although that is only noticeable in open world and story instances yet.
The AI system is going to be revamped, and that is/ was the #1 problem for why the no-trinity gameplay was not working before.
The defiance system that exists in boss encounters to prevent stun-locks is getting revamped, in order to make CC and control roles more useful.
The new elite specialization system for each profession is going to strengthen individual roles and themes (still not going back to the rigid trinity system, however).
I have no idea how raids will end up being, but I wouldn't use 3-years old content as a way to judge the future of GW2.
On one hand, I had to deal with the grief of putting together raid groups back in WoW or guilds falling apart when key members up and left, and raided for 3 or so years but frankly I just see a soft trinity (at best) really underwhelming.
Kos Luftar
Member
We kick cuz of inactivity and the 500 player limit. We welcome anyone who was kicked for that reason back, just reply in the Cummings thread with your account name.Yes I like the multiple way to level, I miss GW1 focus on skills though. Level Cap was 20, then everything was skill based.
I actually started playing GW2 again this week and noticed the GAF guild kicked me
If you're counting them as MMOs, Phantasy Star Online and Phantasy Star Online 2 have no trinity yet have great encounters.
I haven't played any dungeons in awhile, but yeah that's how I remember it. You were pretty much always building to do max DPS in some way or another. Only occasionally did support skills come in handy. Even if they don't go back to a traditional trinity, utilizing the other specializations that are available would do wonders.
There are downsides but the fact that any ragtag group of classes can get together and play means there's little to no time for me spent in the game waiting around for people to organize. Over the years I've grown impatient when it comes to gaming, likely due to having less time play. So when there's a loading screen that's minutes long (GTA 5 online) or I need to wait around for people to get online or to get a specific class to join a group (standard MMOs), I'm just not into it. GW2 is pretty good in that I can jump in for a short burst of time and immediately start playing.