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alterego
Junior Member
(09-05-2006, 11:31 AM)

Originally Posted by chespace

Again, keep in mind that the game is far from finished and many of the graphical effects missing in these screenshots have yet to be stabilized in the build (HDR and various other car shaders). If you're going to nitpick the visual minutae of a game, wouldn't it make more sense to do so with something that's not a work-in-progress?

Anyway, it's GAF so I'm not expecting much more. Hate away, haters!

I think a lot of the groundwork is in place (car models are very good).

I think the main criticisms were the lighting and environment textures which are the things you've mentioned will be improved so I'm sure it'll look fine in the end (especially whizzing by at 60fps).

I wouldn't read to much into the forum drama but the PR could have been handled better.

When do you think this will ship Che?
DMczaf
(09-05-2006, 11:31 AM)
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After this thread, I understand the need for bullshots. The internet isn't ready for work-in-progress screens!
elostyle
Never forget! I'm Dumb!
(09-05-2006, 11:31 AM)
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Hmm... so 2007 then?
Wollan
The reason why I will never ever be banned.
(09-05-2006, 11:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by DMczaf

After this thread, I understand the need for bullshots. The internet isn't ready for work-in-progress screens!

There are games out there that do and show alot more that's getting much more heat but that's another discussion.
Tieno
Member
(09-05-2006, 11:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by DMczaf

After this thread, I understand the need for bullshots. The internet isn't ready for work-in-progress screens!

After this thread? Too Human convinced me on that already. Threads like this are a convincing argument for bullshots and behind-the-scenes showings of games at E3. Though to be fair, the releasing of Forza 2 CGI footage isn't a smart thing either if the first showing of the game can't back it up. Either way, there's still a lot of time.
chespace
It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
(09-05-2006, 11:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by sangreal

I don't know why you felt the need to reiterate this since your last post (wtf do you mean by stabilized anyway?) but to be fair it is not only GAF that has hated on the screens. They seem to be universally hated

wtf do you mean by wtf do i mean. :) what i mean is that all of these graphical effects are coded individually in the engine, and that all the code is inter-dependent in the build -- so when you drop in a new feature and flip the switch, you might end up inadvertently borking other pieces of the build. that's what i mean by instability. it's just a standard ongoing process that eventually gets ironed out.

as for the hate... well, people have a right to hate if they want. all we at turn 10 can hope for is that as the floodgates open and you get more and more looks at the game, not to mention the press getting their hands on it soon, that everyone will realize that not only do the graphics not suck, but that the game feels like the next-gen driving sim everybody has been waiting for on 360.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
(09-05-2006, 11:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by chespace

wtf do you mean by wtf do i mean. :) what i mean is that all of these graphical effects are coded individually in the engine, and that all the code is inter-dependent in the build -- so when you drop in a new feature and flip the switch, you might end up inadvertently borking other pieces of the build. that's what i mean by instability. it's just a standard ongoing process that eventually gets ironed out.

as for the hate... well, people have a right to hate if they want. all we at turn 10 can hope for is that as the floodgates open and you get more and more looks at the game, not to mention the press getting their hands on it soon, that everyone will realize that not only do the graphics not suck, but that the game feels like the next-gen driving sim everybody has been waiting for on 360.

Holiday 2006 still on?
My Arms Your Hearse
Banned
(09-05-2006, 11:44 AM)
It's hard to believe you're still taking thinly veiled pot-shots PGR3 considering these screens, even if early. Racing sims are one of the few genres where I'm actually a graphics whore. It nees to feel and look like the next-gen racer everyone is waiting for...
sangreal
Member
(09-05-2006, 11:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by chespace

wtf do you mean by wtf do i mean. :) what i mean is that all of these graphical effects are coded individually in the engine, and that all the code is inter-dependent in the build -- so when you drop in a new feature and flip the switch, you might end up inadvertently borking other pieces of the build. that's what i mean by instability. it's just a standard ongoing process that eventually gets ironed out.

I knew what you meant actually, I just think its weird to use a word like stabilized when talking about screenshots since they are released in a controlled manner (these were leaked, but I'm assuming they were officially given out?)

as for the hate... well, people have a right to hate if they want. all we at turn 10 can hope for is that as the floodgates open and you get more and more looks at the game, not to mention the press getting their hands on it soon, that everyone will realize that not only do the graphics not suck, but that the game feels like the next-gen driving sim everybody has been waiting for on 360.

Well my post history reflects that I think the game looks ok already, I was just pointing out that it isn't just GAF thats nay-saying
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
(09-05-2006, 11:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by Wollan

There are games out there that do and show alot more that's getting much more heat but that's another discussion.

Is it...a racing game where fundamental gameplay conceits can not in any way be gleaned from screenshots? There are tons of ways screenshots for other types of games can legitimately tell you something about the fundamentals of the game. This is, in my opinion, not one of those instances.

It's why I've enjoyed the videos they've released for the game, because they describe the features and enhancements to the game. I'll see what it looks like in-game at some point, but until it's closer to a finished product, I'm much more interested in how it plays.

A screenshot for, say, Resistance, regardless of the graphical state its in, can still tell you Fun Facts like: "Oh, there's like a zillion little crawly things on this level."

Apples and Oranges, Mr. W.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
(09-05-2006, 11:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by My Arms Your Hearse

It's hard to believe you're still taking thinly veiled pot-shots PGR3 considering these screens, even if early. Racing sims are one of the few genres where I'm actually a graphics whore. It nees to feel and look like the next-gen racer everyone is waiting for...

PGR3 is not a racing sim. Potshot exposure has failed.
chespace
It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
(09-05-2006, 11:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Agent Icebeezy

Holiday 2006 still on?

Forza 2 will no longer ship in Holiday 2006 -- a new date will be given at X06. :)
pilonv1
(09-05-2006, 11:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Agent Icebeezy

Holiday 2006 still on?

Doesn't sound like it :(

Anyway if it's 60fps and plays well (online included) I'll be happy.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
(09-05-2006, 11:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by chespace

Forza 2 will no longer ship in Holiday 2006 -- a new date will be given at X06. :)

November 13, 2006 confirmed? (When does Hannukah start this year?)
sangreal
Member
(09-05-2006, 11:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by chespace

Forza 2 will no longer ship in Holiday 2006 -- a new date will be given at X06. :)

winter 07 confirmed :(

I guess it pays to over-analyze lines like 'this winter' afterall
pilonv1
(09-05-2006, 11:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by chespace

Forza 2 will no longer ship in Holiday 2006 -- a new date will be given at X06. :)



So Viva Pinata, Crackdown and Gears carry the first party Christmas?
Amir0x
Banned
(09-05-2006, 11:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by sangreal

winter 07 confirmed :(

March 2007
chespace
It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
(09-05-2006, 11:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Amir0x

March 2007

Isn't March like the new November anyways?
Amir0x
Banned
(09-05-2006, 11:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by chespace

Isn't March like the new November anyways?

basically :D
TTP
Have a fun! Enjoy!
(09-05-2006, 11:54 AM)
TTP's Avatar

WTF with the green environment?!? Needs more background.


LOL @ the camera (WTF with the background again?!?!)


Another background. Blue this time. LOL this movie sucks!

This post is about complaining over work in progress shots
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
(09-05-2006, 11:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Amir0x

March 2007

My Birthday Confirmed! The REAL Holiday 2007!

Leastways now I can save up for tha FF Wheel.
sangreal
Member
(09-05-2006, 11:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by TTP


WTF with the green environment?!? Needs more background.


LOL @ the camera (WTF with the background again?!?!)


Another background. Blue this time. LOL this movie sucks!

This post is about complaining over work in progress shots

:lol :lol
Tieno
Member
(09-05-2006, 12:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by TTP

[IG]http://www.matrix-explained.com/photopost/data/507/113Matrix_Set.jpg[/IMG]
WTF with the green environment?!? Needs more background.

[IG]http://www.matrix-explained.com/photopost/data/507/113Hugo_Matrix_set2-med.jpg[/IMG]
LOL @ the camera (WTF with the background again?!?!)

[IG]http://www.matrix-explained.com/photopost/data/507/113Making_Revs666-med.jpg[/IMG]
Another background. Blue this time. LOL this movie sucks!

This post is about complaining over work in progress shots

But look at the detail on agent smith!!! wa wa wii wa! Don't like the bloom in the last shot though.
buckfutter
Member
(09-05-2006, 12:03 PM)
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Well if there's anything good that can be said about those screens, it's that they certainly look stable.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
(09-05-2006, 12:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tieno

But look at the detail on agent smith!!! wa wa wii wa! Don't like the bloom in the last shot though.

Ponytail from LOTR = RushJob. Winter 2003 confirmed!!
mashoutposse
Member
(09-05-2006, 12:04 PM)
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Forza 2 isn't looking bad at all, but it reminds me of checking out Metropolis Street Racer before GT3. I'm sure GT5 will rewrite the books on driving game graphics, then we'll see a much better looking Forza 3.
Brashnir
Member
(09-05-2006, 12:10 PM)

Originally Posted by chespace

Forza 2 will no longer ship in Holiday 2006 -- a new date will be given at X06. :)

Rolling Thunder!
Wollan
The reason why I will never ever be banned.
(09-05-2006, 12:20 PM)
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From now on, people don't have the right to be disappointed when viewing pre-release photos? Why are we making up special rules? Developers or publishers need to take responsibility for promo material. Especially when it's relative close to release. I think you guys(or whoever makes the decision) should have waited a bit more(since you have already waited so long) and shown a build with the recently added grass and HDR as in this case it would make 2x the difference. I am now personally aware that this stuff is coming so I will hold my judgment but people who don't know do have the right to hammer it based on how it looks.

Originally Posted by hadareud

well, be disappointed then - who is telling you that you are not allowed to be?

Just the general word here. 'Yeah these are first pics but don't judge them because more is coming'. It's our right to judge them, they obviously put them out for us to see.
hadareud
The Translator
(09-05-2006, 12:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wollan

From now on, people don't have the right to be disappointed when viewing pre-release photos? Why are we making up special rules? Developers or publishers need to take responsibility for promo material. Especially when it's relative close to release. I think you guys(or whoever makes the decision) should have waited a bit more(since you have already waited so long) and shown a build with the recently added grass and HDR as in this case it would make 2x the difference. I am now personally aware that this stuff is coming so I will hold my judgment but people who don't know do have the right to hammer it based on how it looks.

well, be disappointed then - who is telling you that you are not allowed to be?
Rhindle
Member
(09-05-2006, 12:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wollan

Just the general word here. 'Yeah these are first pics but don't judge them because more is coming'. It's our right to judge them, they obviously put them out for us to see.

Except that in this case, they were leaked, which forced their hand.
monkeymagic
Banned
(09-05-2006, 12:35 PM)

Originally Posted by Wollan

From now on, people don't have the right to be disappointed when viewing pre-release photos?

Only if it's a PS3 title or called 'Untold Legends'.
Skilotonn
xbot xbot xbot xbot xbot
(09-05-2006, 12:51 PM)
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There you go... they were real... just like most of us thought...

And I'm glad to hear that it was true after all that many effects were missing from these pics - my only complaints were stuff like the grass and environmental lighting and so on... awesome...

Keeping into account that this baby will be running at 60 fps, 720p, total customisability, 12 cars, and create just any design you can think of to cover the car, you'd be crazy to think that this game won't look and move amazing in the final version...

And I had to laugh at that GT4 shot though - the cars in that game are basically one giant photo texture - absolutely nothing is modeled, the cars are poly-starved, not even the door handles, grills or headlights are modeled... if you go ga-ga over that, then good for you then... I won't hate on that... :)
bud
straight
(09-05-2006, 12:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by chespace

Again, keep in mind that the game is far from finished and many of the graphical effects missing in these screenshots have yet to be stabilized in the build (HDR and various other car shaders). If you're going to nitpick the visual minutae of a game, wouldn't it make more sense to do so with something that's not a work-in-progress?

Anyway, it's GAF so I'm not expecting much more. Hate away, haters!

serious question: why does this game not blow away gt:hd?

isn't that the least we can expect?
buckfutter
Member
(09-05-2006, 12:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skilotonn

And I had to laugh at that GT4 shot though - the cars in that game are basically one giant photo texture - absolutely nothing is modeled, the cars are poly-starved, not even the door handles, grills or headlights are modeled... if you go ga-ga over that, then good for you then... I won't hate on that... :)

You kind of just did. And what's the point of modelling all that detail if it barely looks better than a last-gen "photo texture" version? Compare the tailights and tell me something is not wrong with this picture. No-one was going "ga-ga" over a last-gen title, they were pointing out that these screenshots are lacklustre.
Kabuki Waq
Member
(09-05-2006, 01:00 PM)
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on the plust side atleast it will have damage modeling and actual racing AI.


On the crap side WTF was up with all those CG video's that were shown? I mean really the game does not look to be even close to those. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Unless something happens and it looks insane in motion.
thorns
Banned
(09-05-2006, 01:10 PM)

Originally Posted by buckfutter

You kind of just did. And what's the point of modelling all that detail if it barely looks better than a last-gen "photo texture" version? Compare the tailights and tell me something is not wrong with this picture. No-one was going "ga-ga" over a last-gen title, they were pointing out that these screenshots are lacklustre.

because photo textures look good in, umm , photos, and not actually as good in motion?
Ghost
Chili Con Carnage!
(09-05-2006, 01:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bud

serious question: why does this game not blow away gt:hd?

isn't that the least we can expect?

Just a guess but id figure because:

the game is far from finished and many of the graphical effects missing in these screenshots

mrklaw
MrArseFace
(09-05-2006, 01:16 PM)
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I agree with Wollan (not the first time)

If lighting and other bits aren't in, then we can't judge until we see more final shots. But it is dumb to release these. Leaked or not leaked, they had to be created by the developer.
buckfutter
Member
(09-05-2006, 01:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by thorns

because photo textures look good in, umm , photos, and not actually as good in motion?

Do you even understand what you just said?
Deezel
Member
(09-05-2006, 01:20 PM)

Originally Posted by Bud

serious question: why does this game not blow away gt:hd?

isn't that the least we can expect?

Are you judging the screenshots or the game as a whole?
Blimblim
The Inside Track
(09-05-2006, 01:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by mrklaw

I agree with Wollan (not the first time)

If lighting and other bits aren't in, then we can't judge until we see more final shots. But it is dumb to release these. Leaked or not leaked, they had to be created by the developer.

The first 3 screens were leaked, the new batch from yesterday are official images. At least they were sent to us by MS.
elostyle
Never forget! I'm Dumb!
(09-05-2006, 01:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by chespace

Isn't March like the new November anyways?

I thought sony established that it's the other way around.
Kabuki Waq
Member
(09-05-2006, 01:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by m0dus

I think the groundwork demonstrated in those shots is excellent, especially the car models. People act retarded when they don't see over-the-top shader and lighting effects at first glance. The term "Work in Progress" has no meaning here, which has been demonstrated numerous times.


do you think in motion the game will come close to the CG that was shown?

those screens could be released on xbox and they would look bleh ....i mean cmon.
Amir0x
Banned
(09-05-2006, 01:25 PM)
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no of course the game won't reach the CG

but come on guys that should no longer be anyone's base for next-gen titles :P
cornholio
Banned
(09-05-2006, 01:27 PM)

Originally Posted by Dunpeal

Too much blur.


Aside from that, it looks almost real.

I expected someone with a lame Halo avatar to say that.
Kabuki Waq
Member
(09-05-2006, 01:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Amir0x

no of course the game won't reach the CG

but come on guys that should no longer be anyone's base for next-gen titles :P



there is not reaching CG and there is not even coming close to the CG.

Graw did not reach CG but atleast it sort of came close. This looks like an XBOX game in the screens.
bud
straight
(09-05-2006, 01:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deezel

Are you judging the screenshots or the game as a whole?

pics

Originally Posted by Ghost

Just a guess but id figure because:

they did gt:hd in 3 weeks and it's basically an updated version of gt4. forza is an entirely different game and built up from the ground for the 360.

shouldn't this already blow gt:hd away then?
Amir0x
Banned
(09-05-2006, 01:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kabuki Waq

there is not reaching CG and there is not even coming close to the CG.

Graw did not reach CG but atleast it sort of came close. This looks like an XBOX game in the screens.

i just don't see it. I mean, admittedly, it's not the most amazing shit we've seen next-gen. It's a racing game with huge customization, damage models, 300 vehicles, and the shit like '3d grass' and 'HDR' is being added/fixed says che... and what this game DOES acheive is 60fps @ 720p. Which, for me, is what a racing game needs to do in next-gen to even start to be acceptable.

But I agree this isn't a great looking game... but it still doesn't look OMG GTHD as people are making it to be here
Kabuki Waq
Member
(09-05-2006, 01:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bud

pics



they did gt:hd in 3 weeks and it's basically an updated version of gt4. forza is an entirely different game and built up from the ground for the 360.

shouldn't this already blow gt:hd away then?


well in Flopza's defence. GT games look like crap while playing. Quite a bit worse than forza 1 IMO.
bud
straight
(09-05-2006, 01:30 PM)
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it looks better than gt:hd but it doesn't blow it away though, that's what i said.

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