2018 has a racing game, a beautiful metroidvania, top notch fps, zombie apocalypse people/Outpost manager/survival simulator, and a whimsical online shared world pirate game. Damn, what a lack of diversity.
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Spencer: We Have Just Signed Exclusives That Wont Be Ready for 2-3 Years, No Point i
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2018 has a racing game, a beautiful metroidvania, top notch fps, zombie apocalypse people/Outpost manager/survival simulator, and a whimsical online shared world pirate game. Damn, what a lack of diversity.
Barring the beautiful metroidvania, none of them have a spark that generates excitement.
AfterTheFall
Member
I hate the fact that companies are showing games which are a long, long way off, but Microsoft could have benefited from this. The line-up so far for me personally isn't that compelling for Xbox One X.
WaterAstro
Member
It should be the case, but Nintendo and Sony are focused on games while Microsoft makes money from its other business.
If Satya Nadella and the stockholders think it's not worth investing that much into 1st party games, then Microsoft wouldn't be at the same level as their competitors in terms of game development.
Then again, Microsoft loves to invest hundreds of billions of dollars into absolute failures, so they should be okay with spending some money on first party lol.
I apologize if my phrasing was a bit confusing:
2. The Switch is currently selling as fast as Nintendo can make them without a single good retail game and only a handful of digital games not made by Nintendo.
1. They've trotted out CGI videos and full game demos for titles they've then cancelled, so when they won't even announce the partnership or title/genre I don't see how skepticism isn't warranted.
2. That skepticism makes even more sense when you consider that this is the same narrative we've heard from them for several years in a row now, the only difference is this time they won't even show their vaporware first party growth. He speaks about these deals in the present tense, like they just happened, but he was saying these same general plaudits about first party growth last year and the year before. If they didn't wake up to the need in 2015 or 2016 why 2017?
3. Horizon: Zero Dawn sure seemed to get people excited when it was announced. Also, if MS really cared about first party development they'd have more AAA titles already in the pipe. Maybe they're a year or two out still but they'd at least have a sizzle reel or something to start laying the groundwork.
MS has approached this entire industry with one foot out already out the door and that's burned them time and time again. What's worse, it's burned us gamers as well. MS has a handful of premier teams making exclusive content while Sony has a comparative army and the lineup of visual showcase games on PS4 are a testament to how big a difference that makes. Bioware went from a premier developer in the entire industry to Mass Effect Andromeda under EA's watch, just like every other EA acquisition. Under MS they likely could have kept their unique identity and really focused on growing what made them special instead of color by numbers focus tested products like Dragon Age II, Inquisition, and ME Andromeda.
Again, this is a rant I've had more than a few times on this board but until MS proves it with actual products I see no reason to think they've changed. There is a fine line between buying your way in and having meaningful skin in the game, Sony was once accused of the former but has now shifted into the later. MS isn't looking for that line, they're looking for the where they've got just enough obligation for it not to appear token in nature.
And it's depressing because when the Xbox first came out it was a genuinely unique experience. I really miss that.
Really? Forza remains a very popular series. Forza Horizon 3 cleared 3 million sales in just a few months. That zombie game was incredibly popular on Xbox 360, the fastest selling XBL game outside of Minecraft, if memory serves. What I played of Sea of Thieves was incredibly fun and our team at E3 sent photos of the crowds waiting to play that game.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
At what point do we stop making excuses for MS?
Satya Nadella and the board of execs at MS are not the ones running Xbox, Spencer is. And so if Spencer isn't being given sufficient support nor budget to invest in first party developed games then I would say that MS needs to entirely restructure the way their Xbox business is being run. Xbox should have sufficient autonomy to decide at the divisional level what and how to invest in; without pressure from above to conform to useless corporate-wide strategies that are fundamentally incompatible with gaming.
Given that MS is the inventor and manager of the DX APIs for their windows platforms, I simply can't understand why MS of all the three platform holders isn't investing significantly in actually making games. Surely it follows that those who work in developing modern videogames are the best placed to inform on MS's other game-related software projects like Direct X. Equally, as we saw with Mark Cerny's contribution to PS4's success, game devs are also those best placed to inform on what game developers want out of console hardware.
These things being true, MS really should be at the forefront of videogames technology and first party development, not in last place. As a company with such strong non-gaming software development credentials, i'd even go as far as to say that Spencer should be embarrassed for the state of their first party development portfolio.
Looks like a rustled some feathers. My point is that 2018 has a good lineup of games (even if they aren't your cup of tea). We don't know much about the following years. Majority of gamers (NOT GAF, REGULAR PEOPLE) aren't looking at these exclusives, they look at mostly third parties so I don't see all the doom and gloom that seems to be going on.
I agree that MS needs more new IP, no doubt. But I don't think we'll see their output rival Sony or Nintendo. I do think that people who care for first party games have a right to be worried because there's nothing that MS is doing to give them confidence that they will comparative to their competitors so I understand that.
I do believe that the list that I made is how we'll see their first party going forward...meaning we'll probably only know what a person will be able to buy within the next year. So in 2018, we'll have a certain expectation of what we'll get in 2019 but not that much more.
I don't think that MS is gonna do Halo/Gears/Forza ONLY. I still think that we'll get a sequel to Recore and I do hope that they put more money into it to be a AAA game. I only hope for Quantum Break even if by a diff developer. But even so, I'm not worried bout 2019 games because that's SO FAR AWAY and 2018 has a good lineup so far. My opinion.
I agree that MS needs more new IP, no doubt. But I don't think we'll see their output rival Sony or Nintendo. I do think that people who care for first party games have a right to be worried because there's nothing that MS is doing to give them confidence that they will comparative to their competitors so I understand that.
I do believe that the list that I made is how we'll see their first party going forward...meaning we'll probably only know what a person will be able to buy within the next year. So in 2018, we'll have a certain expectation of what we'll get in 2019 but not that much more.
I don't think that MS is gonna do Halo/Gears/Forza ONLY. I still think that we'll get a sequel to Recore and I do hope that they put more money into it to be a AAA game. I only hope for Quantum Break even if by a diff developer. But even so, I'm not worried bout 2019 games because that's SO FAR AWAY and 2018 has a good lineup so far. My opinion.
Night Angel
Member
The strength of 2018's lineup, when measured against the competition, it's likely going to be lacking. I don't see much to get people excited enough to buy a $500 box.
To the bolded: why would consumers buy an XB1 to play those games when they could buy a PS4 or PC instead? MS has given people little reason to choose their box over others. Even with the XBO X, the price will be enough to scare off most consumers, especially in the presence of much cheaper alternatives (with better libraries).
As an XB1 owner, I don't give a fuck about the XB1S or XB1X. I can't play those on the XB1 that I stupidly bought at the start of the gen. What I want are games that I can't get anywhere else. Games CREATED BY MS, not games that were already paid for that get exclusivity because of shitty marketing deals. It's about time for people to expect MS to make active contributions to our hobby instead of farming shit out to already busy developers.
Why buy a PS4 to play Battlefield 1 or Madden when you can buy an Xbox One S for cheaper? And if you are about graphics and / or tech in general, why buy a PS4 Pro when you can buy the latest and greatest in the Xbox One X?
The majority of consumers are price sensitive, they don't give a shit about anything besides Madden, Battlefield, Battlefront, Mario Kart, etc etc. It's why the PS4 beat the Xbox One out of the gate, why pay $499 to play Battlefield 3 when you can pay $399 for the same thing (and for people in the know, better graphics on the PS4).
Normal people:
Don't buy/build PCs to play video games.
Buy cheap stuff.
Don't go into list wars and compare them with the competition.
Go play where their friends are.
Watch TV and buy games based off of commercials
Let's be honest, as much as GAF shits on the 1st party of MS...they still sold ~30 MILLION consoles. Even if they aren't selling as much as PS4, they still sold a shit ton of game consoles and games with them. MS is not in some do or die situation. Reading these forums you would think that way.
You are care for the first party games. You want MS to make exclusive stuff to their console. Etc. etc. etc. And that's totally fine...but Xbox ain't gonna go the way of the WiiU. Normal people are going to see games on their TVs and see the logo of who's platform got that marketing deal (even though they don't know that nor care) and go buy the system that the game belongs to. You think that Xbox Game Pass doesn't appeal to parents that want to get a lot of games for their kids? Cheap games. Yea, you can def see a bunch of parents looking at a cheap console and just paying $10 a month for their kids games.
It's much more than just 1st party games and some people on GAF really need to understand that 3rd party is really the most important part of a console platform. You can argue Nintendo but we still have to see how long of legs it's going to last. I believe that they will, but they have to keep up with output to be profitable. 3rd party games sell the most. 1st party does matter, and I'm not refuting that at all. I'm just trying to let you know that your way of thinking is definitely in the minority of people who buy gaming consoles. Because if 1st party mattered that much, the WiiU should have outsold everyone. You, I, and a bunch of people on this forum are jaded.
Uno Venova
Banned
I would say overall library still matters, and it's why first party is so important. The Xbox S and Slim are around the same price, has the same third party games and the Xbox is still getting outsold.
makingmusic476
Member
Someone should change that E3 2035 "But where was the Last Guardian??" gif to "But where were the first party games??"
Every year they're saying they understand that fans are eager for more first party games and new IPs, and that's why they're making big new investments in such titles.
Every year they're saying they understand that fans are eager for more first party games and new IPs, and that's why they're making big new investments in such titles.
You do know who you're quoting right?
Night Angel
Member
Ok, and it seems that most normal people are buying PS4s. People aren't idiots. They know they can get all of the same games on both consoles. Pretending that having a deeper exclusive library doesn't matter is silly, because all things being equal it will most certainly affect someone's purchase.
Nothing you said explains why people will choose the XB1 when they go to the store. If you think people are unaware of exclusives, how would they simultaneously know about the game pass? It doesn't play. Most people's friends are on PS, so that doesn't work either. Most marketing deals for the biggest games are on PS as well. DJkhaled.gif
Rumblebones
Banned
Xbox gonna carry on as they are so long as a big enough portion of their fanbase continue to sing their praises for mediocre output.
Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo - all these companies and more do listen, but only when it'll cost them otherwise or if it works to their benefit.
PlayStation fans got it good because they've established a clear paradigm of feedback and response with Sony. They kept asking for The Last Guardian, and they got it. They kept asking for a FFVII Remake, and they got it. They kept asking for Shenmue III, and they got it. Hell, I never thought Sony would make a SotC remake, and yet here we are. Even when Sony can't deliver exactly what was asked for, if the demand is strong enough, they still find a way to meet it, e.g. people asked for Demon Souls 2, and they got Bloodborne.
Ask and you shall receive.
Seems to me, Xbox players just need to ask more.
Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo - all these companies and more do listen, but only when it'll cost them otherwise or if it works to their benefit.
PlayStation fans got it good because they've established a clear paradigm of feedback and response with Sony. They kept asking for The Last Guardian, and they got it. They kept asking for a FFVII Remake, and they got it. They kept asking for Shenmue III, and they got it. Hell, I never thought Sony would make a SotC remake, and yet here we are. Even when Sony can't deliver exactly what was asked for, if the demand is strong enough, they still find a way to meet it, e.g. people asked for Demon Souls 2, and they got Bloodborne.
Ask and you shall receive.
Seems to me, Xbox players just need to ask more.
So we're gonna act like 30 million people don't own Xbox Ones. They choose it because of games that were marketed, friends that are on xbox that CHOOSE XBOX for whatever reason, cheap deals that they see online/stores etc. You are literally acting as if people don't buy Xbox and they shouldn't buy Xbox because of some exclusive library that their competition has...even if those people like what Xbox puts out comparatively.
Are people idiots? Yes and no. The main thing is that they just don't care as much as you do with gaming. It's like saying why do people not only use .flac for music but the majority know .mp3s. Flac is so much better, but the majority just doesn't give a fuck. They know what they know and they will use it.
B.I.N.G.O!
Don't settle for what they give you, ask for what you want and ask in numbers.
The average user doesn't know what's exclusive and what's not. They buy a game and play it.
Night Angel
Member
^And the average user doesn't buy an Xbox.
What a great strategy. Are we pretending that this same consumer cares to pay $300 extra for better specs?
And once again, the crux of my argument is that they aren't giving ME any reason to own their new boxes. They haven't given ME a reason to even turn the damn thing on in over a year.
If my stance had no merit, the Xbox wouldn't be getting consistently outsold.
What a great strategy. Are we pretending that this same consumer cares to pay $300 extra for better specs?
I never said no one was buying Xbox consoles. I'm not pretending people don't, you're projecting that. I'm saying that they're resigning themselves to their current market share by not expanding their library.
And once again, the crux of my argument is that they aren't giving ME any reason to own their new boxes. They haven't given ME a reason to even turn the damn thing on in over a year.
If my stance had no merit, the Xbox wouldn't be getting consistently outsold.
Who stated anything about them buying a Xbox One X? No, they would buy a cheap Xbox One S, or a used OG Xbox One.
I understand that you said that they didn't give YOU what you wanted. You initially started with making a statement (and bolded it) towards normal consumers, that I said that they don't care as much as you think they are.
Your stance doesn't have merit as if it did...the Xbox One would have sold more in the first 2 years...when they did have a lot more exclusives. But they didn't, why? Because of other factors. Exclusives aren't the reason the XBO was being outsold, like I said earlier and as other people have stated before, the WiiU would have outsold everyone. But why didn't that sell? Because of other factors. Yes, 1st party plays a piece of the pie, I'm not arguing that, but it's definitely not the reason why MS is being outsold. Even if MS did hit it out of the park with 1st party games in the next couple of years...they still wouldn't outsell PS4. That would be the biggest comeback ever.
Let me clarify and reiterate, your opinion on what MS is doing is totally justified and you are definitely warranted in what you feel and I understand why. My statement is just that, not naming games that are coming in 2019 is not really going to hurt MS as much as you may think, and my justification is that even right now, Xbox is doing well for themselves, even if they aren't as great as PS4 for console sales. That's why I stated that the list that I showed isn't bad since MS seems to just show games that are supposedly coming (SUPPOSEDLY) in the next year. 2018 has a healthy lineup but we don't know 2019+ really and that's what is upsetting to hardcore gamers like ones you find here at the forums of GAF.
NavyPharaoh
Member
Bottom line is Phil has been saying this. Nothing changes and in fact he's seems confused to the meaning of exclusive so he's kept his promise! He has 22 exclusives on Xbox One this fall!!
Snark aside the Xbox is doing fine. At some point you're going to have to reach those multiple console owner's homes and the Xbox is the only console that doesn't make sense to own as #2 because of 1st party output. Since Xbox began I've always had one, & even this gen but if it's just going to be better looking 3rd parties why own a console specifically for that?
The purpose of the Xbox one X is the enthusiast crowd but the hardcore cares about exclusives. So that's why people are frustrated about the first party. Why get the monster if the monster has nothing designed to flaunt its supremacy? It's kinda the cart before the horse when you put hardware over software
Snark aside the Xbox is doing fine. At some point you're going to have to reach those multiple console owner's homes and the Xbox is the only console that doesn't make sense to own as #2 because of 1st party output. Since Xbox began I've always had one, & even this gen but if it's just going to be better looking 3rd parties why own a console specifically for that?
The purpose of the Xbox one X is the enthusiast crowd but the hardcore cares about exclusives. So that's why people are frustrated about the first party. Why get the monster if the monster has nothing designed to flaunt its supremacy? It's kinda the cart before the horse when you put hardware over software
Humdinger
Member
I'm seeing this a lot lately, the attempt to downplay the importance of exclusives. "Normal people don't care about exclusives, only people on forums."
That's BS.
The Switch succeeded -- hell, all Nintendo consoles succeeded -- on the basis of exclusives.
Had it not been for one exclusive in particular (Halo), I'm not sure we'd even be having a conversation about the Xbox platform, at this point. As much as people deride Halo/Gears/Forza/Fable, MS's stable of exclusives have been critical in its success.
Same goes for the PlayStation.
Exclusives matter a lot. They are one of the main reasons people buy one console rather than another. Exclusives have been a major factor in every console generation. They always will be.
The Xbox platform would not exist at all, were it not for exclusives. Were it not for Halo and Gears we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Halo was the ultimate system seller.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Paying 3rd parties to release games on their console rather than develop them instead more like.
My point isnt that 1st parties don't matter AT ALL, they definitely play a factor and they do have a good influence in system sellers. 3rd party games sell the most. And if you read my initial post, you would see that my point is that people on here forums are worried about 1st party output that's coming years down the line. We have a good idea of what's coming next year, 5 1st party games. 2019, we really don't know about. REGULAR PEOPLE aren't caring what's coming in 2019+. They care for what they can buy soon, within the next year. That's catering to the biggest audience. Yes, it's not good for your hardcore audience, and I've said that I understand and agree with that sentiment. MS does need to give gamers confidence that they are going to put good games out from 1st party outside of whats been announced. So far, that audience is not being catered to.
So, like I said...ill be happy playing some of them games they announced and what we can guess for next year, while "the rest" of you can be upset about whats coming out the year after and the year after that. I hope that that clarifies what I'm stating.
Well I used the word "perhaps," so I don't know where you get all this certainty from.
But considering the game was turned down because MS felt the design didn't give enough potential to be monetized with micro transactions, and that that's not the only game rejected for that reason alone, I think people have another reason to be reasonably concerned about MS's AAA output.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Ah, another day, another instance where "The Savior of Xbox" opened his mouth instead of keeping it shut.
Gotta love that GaaS push. This is beyond fucked.
First off I am personally convinced that aside of price library mattersthe most..that includes 3rd party, 1st party and "2nd" party...you know the "best mix" kinda thing
What stood out to me the most in this thread are two commonly shared opinions:
1) It does not matter where you buy a "MS exclusive" as long as MS gets your money
2) Only 3rd party matters, nobody (aside gaffers) cares about exclusives/1st party
So why doesn´t MS release Halo, Gears, Forza, xxxxxxx on Switch, Steam and PS? I mean more sales for them, right? And you could still play all the big 3rd party games (the only games that matter) on your Xbox, hell they will be second to best on your xboxx. The answer to my question is obvious but I´d love to hear the people who argue points 1 and 2 explain it to me...
What stood out to me the most in this thread are two commonly shared opinions:
1) It does not matter where you buy a "MS exclusive" as long as MS gets your money
2) Only 3rd party matters, nobody (aside gaffers) cares about exclusives/1st party
So why doesn´t MS release Halo, Gears, Forza, xxxxxxx on Switch, Steam and PS? I mean more sales for them, right? And you could still play all the big 3rd party games (the only games that matter) on your Xbox, hell they will be second to best on your xboxx. The answer to my question is obvious but I´d love to hear the people who argue points 1 and 2 explain it to me...
Hey, I have no reason to doubt you, just curious how you would know something so intimate about the very inner workings of why a game was rejected.
First time I'm positing in a discussion in a while, so I apologize if someone already stated you're a verified insider. I just want to know if its trustworthy, because that's some juicy shit!
Are you saying not to expect anything on the level of Sony anytime soon (in terms of single player games, diversity, etc.) due to GaaS being almost a mandate?
Night Angel
Member
BLAUcopter
Gold Member
I think Phil comes across as the least full of shit big wig there is. But gotta keep that hate train going I suppose?
I thought insiders had verified tags?
But damn, that's a shame then if he's right, but it honestly doesn't surprise me.
I mean, I know MS isn't going to acquire any studios any time soon (THAT much is obvious), but I'd at least like them to BUILD some...
They have the funds, and I think Xbox Game Pass opens up a good opportunity to have some first party teams building games for Xbox Game Pass ala Netflix Originals. Sprinkle in a few more first party studios for big AAA games and that's not TOO terrible.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
What's in his track record makes you think that he's the least full of shit big wig?
PositiveGamer
Member
He said.. "comes across "
When you compare him to other leaders, he seems like the guy you want to go out with and have a few drinks..
Woodchipper
Member
2-3 years? Next gen will be here by then. Too late, man.
The tags were optional iirc.
Vital Tundra
Member
You know I wouldn't have a real problem with that statement if they hadn't trashed multiple games and resolved studios the last couple of years. Their exclusives list is atrocious at this point.
Sure, if you're part of a dudebro fraternity lol.
Yeah, I mean, you can't deny it anymore.
If MS was interested in building first party developers and 1st party exclusives they wouldn't have just shut down Lionhead.
I'd imagine it would have been cheaper to restructure rather than just pack it up and build a new one from scratch.
Could have at least used those assets for a single player reboot. Fuck, tack on some BS MP like DA:I, I don't care at this point.
Bits N Pieces
Member
MS aren't going to make games unless they can be heavily monetized with DLC transactions? Poor Ori getting pimped out for £1.99 extra health bundles 
MS aren't going to make games unless they can be heavily monetized with DLC transactions? Poor Ori getting pimped out for £1.99 extra health bundles
I feel like smaller titles like that are a different story.
You're talking a hefty amount of millions of dollars to risk on a game w/ no revenue post launch (aside from DLC packs here and there) if building brand new AAA IPs.
Bits N Pieces
Member
What AAA games don't have map packs, cosmetics or expansions?
MS aren't going to make games unless they can be heavily monetized with DLC transactions? Poor Ori getting pimped out for £1.99 extra health bundles
Not like this. NOT ORI! PLEASE BASED GOD. Eh, I'm still buying it. dat story.
But a smaller game like Ori could benefit from gamepass.
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