• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Jezebel: "I'm [racist against mixed relationships when it doesn't suit my agenda]"

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

WrenchNinja

Member
http://themuse.jezebel.com/i-m-tired-of-watching-brown-men-fall-in-love-with-white-1796522590/amp

The Big Sick has been roundly lauded in the press lately, including here at Jezebel, and not without good reason: it’s a funny, heartwarming love story based on the true-life experiences of cowriters/married couple Kumail Nanjiani and Emily V. Gordon. But as much as I liked it—and I did—I also found myself exhausted, yet again, by the onscreen depiction of a brown man wanting to date a white woman, while brown women are portrayed alternately as caricatures, stereotypes, inconsequential, and/or the butts of a joke.
Click to expand...

I know, I know: isn’t it progress to see Asian men get the girl for once, instead of stand-in as a prop, token or joke? Sure, it’s great that Hollywood is putting its money behind narratives with brown men at the helm, as in The Big Sick and Master of None. But both also center white women as the love interest—a concept which, in the complex hierarchy of power and race in America, pays lip-service to the one notion that has shaped the history of South Asian and American culture alike: Whiteness as the ultimate desire, the highest goal in defining oneself as an American. Both of these works are part of a larger trend that’s common in films in media portraying the desi community, that the pursuit of white love is a mode of acceptance into American culture, and a way of “transcending” the confines of immigrant culture—the notion that white love is a gateway drug to the American dream.
Click to expand...

Onscreen Asian men have been depicted coveting or romancing white women through the ages: from the 1915 silent film The Cheat to modern examples like Raj in The Big Bang Theory, Gogol in The Namesake, Ravi in Meet the Patels, Tom Haverford in Parks and Recreation, and Dev Shah in Master of None. It seems that directors and writers have sought to solve a lack of Asian representation onscreen by casting Asian men opposite white women—but that tack almost inevitably erases interracial relationships between people of color.
Click to expand...

The mating dance between Asian men and white women is rife with exotification and cringe-worthy othering. As bell hooks puts it, in “the commodification of Otherness,” ethnicity becomes spice to a dull, mainstream white dish. In The Big Sick, “Kumail” picks up “Emily” by writing her name out in Urdu in the beginning of the film. (Apparently Pete Holmes recommended Nanjiani use “Once you go Pakistan, you never go Backistan,” a line that would have made me vomit just from the pronunciation of “Pakistan.”) We later see “Kumail” pull the write-her-name-in-Urdu move on another white chick. (He sleeps only with white women throughout The Big Sick.)
Click to expand...

We, brown women, do not expect men to be our savior. Brown women are out there, making art too. But too often, Hollywood’s depictions of brown men amount to an erasure of brown women. And that is not good enough.
Click to expand...

Bit conflicted by this article. I'm a south asian dude, so I'm really happy to be able to see anyone like me on western tv at all, but I sort of get her point.

A thing to keep in mind is the The Big Sick is based off Kumail's life.
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
Maybe don't pick the movie based on the main actor's life you goon

And Tom from Parks is a bad example because the majority of his romances aren't this way
 
D

dankir

Member
Indian man here, married a white woman. In fact most of my colored friends are in interracial relationships/marriages.
 
K

kirblar

Member
This is a gross opinion, no matter the identity and background of the person holding it.

Doubly so because this is based on two people's biography!
 
P

p2535748

Member
I read this earlier, and while I understand the general complaint, the use of Te Big Sick is odd because it's a true story of Nanjiani and his wife, so criticizing it in this way feels fairly close to criticizing Nanjiani's real life romantic decisions which is off putting.

There's some merit to the idea that often the white woman is held up as the ultimate prize in movies/TV, but this is a super bad example to the point that it hurts the whole piece.
 
S

SRG01

Member
But women of color have always been desired in film. It's men of color -- primarily Asian men -- that are underrepresented as romantic interests.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Tired of watching someone's life story play out is like watching Lincoln and being mad he dies at the end.

This also seems like the anti-thesis of Asian Man being portrayed as emasculated.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
I can see where the writer is coming from, though personally I like seeing more interracial couples on screen, mostly cause I dislike the idea of people having to "date within their race". Master of None actually does this very well, as Dev dates -everyone-.

Edit: And actually thinking on this, I'm pretty sure I've seen more depictions of minority characters always having other minority love interests (usually within the same race), than the other way around, this is a new trend, if it indeed is a trend.
 
A

Aselith

Member
Trojita said:
Tired of watching someone's life story play out is like watching Lincoln and being mad he dies at the end.

This also seems like the anti-thesis of Asian Man being portrayed as emasculated.
Click to expand...

Bro, i hadn't seen Lincoln thanks for the fucking spoilers
 
G

Gorillaz

Member
White girls have been considered the "standard" of beauty for awhile. Like for generations. It's pretty engrained on a subconsensus level. I get what there saying and its def rough but


Masters of none tinder/date episode was still great tho
 
P

psychowave

Member
SRG01 said:
But women of color have always been desired in film. It's men of color -- primarily Asian men -- that are underrepresented as romantic interests.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's... weird. Aren't Asian men usually stereotyped as undesirable or even sexless?
 
T

Twig and Berries

Member
There's literally no heterosexual win-win here

Asian man + white woman --> Asian woman erasure

Asian woman + white man --> Oriental fetishism

Asian man + Asian woman --> Stereotypical denial of interracial relationships

The only solution is to start doing interracial gay relationships :-D
 
P

Poor GRIMES

Banned
Twig and Berries said:
There's literally no heterosexual win-win here

Asian man + white woman --> Asian woman erasure

Asian woman + white man --> Oriental fetishism

Asian man + Asian woman --> Stereotypical denial of interracial relationships

The only solution is to start doing interracial gay relationships :-D
Click to expand...
The first -> uncommon because of the Asian man. Can work.
The second -> tired and boring
Third -> there's not much representation here

Keep lgbt+ people out of your mouth
 
C

Cagey

Banned
Clearly, the solution is to have more situations like Harold Lee tracking down Maria Quesadilla.

harold-and-kumar-go-to-white-castle-4.jpg
 
L

lightskintwin

Banned
Twig and Berries said:
There's literally no heterosexual win-win here

Asian man + white woman --> Asian woman erasure

Asian woman + white man --> Oriental fetishism

Asian man + Asian woman --> Stereotypical denial of interracial relationships

The only solution is to start doing interracial gay relationships :-D
Click to expand...

Your 3rd example isn't an issue.
 
DOWN

DOWN

Banned
SRG01 said:
But women of color have always been desired in film. It's men of color -- primarily Asian men -- that are underrepresented as romantic interests.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm confused why the author doesn't know the significance of depicting romantic interest toward Asian men by non-Asian persons. It can coexist with depictions of the sort the author expects. Maybe I'm not understanding.
 
S

Skellig Gra

Member
I actually see this the other way. Using Master of None as an example is just plain dumb, they even had him date an Indian chick and they talked about the expectation that you date within your own race and it didn't work out because they had nothing in common.

If white women are societies standard of beauty then it elevates brown dudes to a higher status if they are depicted as being able to obtain the standard of beauty.

Going back to Master of None, I thought the characterization of "brown women" was one of the best I've seen.
 
K

Kthulhu

Member
I got confused for a minute due to the article not specifying the author was referring to South Asians.

BronsonLee said:
Maybe don't pick the movie based on the main actor's life you goon

And Tom from Parks is a bad example because the majority of his romances aren't this way
Click to expand...

For real. Her point isn't even necessarily a bad one, but this isn't a good example to express it.
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
But it's based off his life. I mean, I get the criticism, but it's just weird picking a movie based on a true story. Kumail actually did fall in love with a white woman, and hey, this movie is all about that. That's kind of the whole point of the film. Two people from different cultures trying to figure out how this whole love thing works while bearing the burden of their family's perception of them.

Just a weird film to pick for their article.
 
D

Dynasty

Member
Chose a shitty example. However I do see the brown man with white women trope(not sure if it is common enough to be called a trope so maybe trend?) quiet abit in TV, but I am also seeing some white man and brown women. Big Bang Theory had Leanord(white man) with Priya(Brown Indian) is an example so maybe it goes both ways?

In my opinion it is a good thing, it is encouraging(normalising) the breakdown of walls between different cultures and races through media.
 
L

Lime

Member
Whatever with the example, but this is totally true for some. People shouldn't dismiss this out of hand, because it is the experience of some black women to see white women being more desireable in fiction and in real life.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
Uh, I'm pretty sure the Big Sick is based on Kumail Nanjinani and Emily V. Gordons real relationship.

Pretty bad jumping off point.

Poor GRIMES said:
The first -> uncommon because of the Asian man. Can work.
The second -> tired and boring
Third -> there's not much representation here

Keep lgbt+ people out of your mouth
Click to expand...
Isn't that literally what the article is about though?
 
M

my name is ed

Banned
On one hand, yeah you want to see more relationships portrayed where Indian guys and women are dating each other in addition to the interracial relationships we've gotten lately but using the Big Sick and Master of None as examples feel like cheap shots
 
N

Netherscourge

Banned
...while brown women are portrayed alternately as caricatures, stereotypes, inconsequential, and/or the butts of a joke.
Click to expand...


^THAT is what the article is about.


NOT that Jezebel is sick of interracial on-screen relationships.

The title is all sorts of fucked up.
 
K

kingslunk

Member
Kinyou said:
Uh, I'm pretty sure the Big Sick is based on Kumail Nanjinani and Emily V. Gordons real relationship.

Pretty bad jumping off point.
Click to expand...

It is. Not only that but they both wrote it together. According to Kumail's Q&A at the screening I attended.
 
S

studyguy

Member
idk, I'm pretty tired of people giving me shit for dating someone who is white every now and then and not a latina. When I dated a Filipina it was jokes about how I like Asian women too. Can't win.
 
L

lightskintwin

Banned
Timeaisis said:
But it's based off his life. I mean, I get the criticism, but it's just weird picking a movie based on a true story. Kumail actually did fall in love with a white woman, and hey, this movie is all about that. That's kind of the whole point of the film. Two people from different cultures trying to figure out how this whole love thing works while bearing the burden of their family's perception of them.

Just a weird film to pick for their article.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I think it's a victim of the lack of Asian American representation in films in general; So that when you finally have one that's got a lot of buzz going for it; I can get how people can be overly critical of it.

Aselith said:
Neither are the others
Click to expand...

It shouldn't be, but we don't live in a vaccum.
 
I

Infinite

Member
lightskintwin said:
I think the issue, as with most things, is complicated with no real right answers.
Click to expand...

I think the answer is more shit with brown people getting green light not just the ones with the dude has a white woman as his love interests because american audiences can relate or some "marketing" excuse
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
This is totally going to be taken out of context. I don't even need to read the article to know what this is about and how people are gonna react.

Yes there is a total pedestal that white women are put on in terms of desireability in media. No let's not pretend this isn't about minority women being considered lesser than their white peers. Please.
 
S

SnowFlakeCake

Member
dankir said:
Indian man here, married a white woman. In fact most of my colored friends are in interracial relationships/marriages.
Click to expand...

Wish my family were like yours, was scared as fuck bringing home a black or white girl to my parents, so they never knew any shit like that was going on and the women knew nothing was ever going to come out of it long term. Shit even a Indian girl ain't enough, she needs to be a Sikh and the right caste as well, that really narrows the pool. I like my family so ain't gonna go against them for a women, now worth it.

I know a few Indians that married white girls and one married a Muslim, their families either told them to get fucked or didn't give a shit about them in the first place. Shit's rough but that's life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
How The Last of Us became 'the greatest story' ever told in video games
Opinion Analysis 2 3 4 5
203
17K
Elysium44 replied
Kotaku bitching about CoD Vanguard - it's too woke, apparently, to the point it defies history ... *SPOILERS*
Opinion Spoilers Drama 2 3 4 5
204
27K
Spukc replied
Does 'Game Of Thrones' Help Keep Hollywood Blockbusters White?
2 3
122
13K
wandering replied
The Queen is back. Polygon: The Anita Sarkeesian Story, 10 Years of Feminist Frequency
Clickbait 2 3 4 5
207
23K
Animagic replied
  • Locked
Vulture: E-mail chain between Tilda Swinton and Margaret Cho on Dr. Strange casting
3 4 5 6 7
305
39K
Shadowhelper replied
Top Bottom