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Why so much hate for Super Mario Sunshine?

D

Dogenzaka

Banned
SuperMarioSunshine.jpg

​
I bought it back at launch and I'm about to have another run through of it. I still love it.

Sure it was a far tread from Super Mario 64, but in its own right, I thought its differences really made it quite fun. I thought the FLUDD and filth-cleaning elements were really novel and interesting to apply to the Mario world.

Also, the water effects and the beautiful and engaging island/water-based areas were really fun to play in, in my opinion.

It introduced the whole cage-climbing move and Yoshi even played some great parts in it, too.

It was extremely fresh for a Mario game for me, and while the plot was a bit absurd (Peach being Baby Bowser's mama lol!) I thought it was pretty engaging.

The Boo-haunted hotel, the Harbor, and the theme park were really memorable moments for me.

Why does everyone often look at this game like it's some sort of abomination? It's pretty different, of course, and you can't really compare it to SM64 like you can SMG, but I think in it's own right, it's a great Mario game.

What are your thoughts?
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
The Jetpack was a crutch. Miss a jump? Adjust with the jet pack to make it! They level design reflected that, and there wasn't much in the way of tricky or difficult jumps to make.

The worst part was that they put in levels where they took the jet pack away and they became the best ones in the whole game. I remember wishing they made a whole game like that. Fortunately they did.
 
P

Perfect Blue

Banned
It is great. I think it was my first Gamecube game and I still love it to this day. It has some rough edges like that camera but overall it's a great Mario game. Still haven't beaten it though. :lol
 
J

Jon

Member
It was a strange concept, but a fun game nonetheless. Some of the best water physics in any game, ever.
 
D

Dogenzaka

Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
The Jetpack was a crutch. Miss a jump? Adjust with the jet pack to make it!

The worst part was that they put in levels where they took the jet pack away and they became the best ones in the whole game. I remember wishing they made a whole game like that. Fortunately they did.
Click to expand...

The jetpack wasn't very reliable. You couldn't turn with it, only move forward and backward, and it ran out of water pretty quickly.
 
W

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
DeaconKnowledge said:
The worst part was that they put in levels where they took the jet pack away and they became the best ones in the whole game. I remember wishing they made a whole game like that. Fortunately they did.
Click to expand...

And now that game is game of the forever.
 
C

Chris R

Member
The best 3d Mario game to date, if not the best in the entire platforming series. Story is decent, locations are great, camera is rarely an issue, and it controls so damn crisply.

That being said, I'd kill for an entire game that just consisted of the Fluddless levels of SMS and levels that were just the 2d gravity portions of certain levels in SMG (the only part of the game I like :lol )
 
S

Segata Sanshiro

Member
A lot of people hated FLUDD. The level designs, all being designed around the sunny beach island motif, were more similar than people were used to getting from Mario games. The story turned a lot of people off. It wasn't by any means bad, but it wasn't up to the expectations people had (and still have) for a mainline Mario game.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
  • Upon release, it wasn't at the same standards of quality & innovation of previous flagship Mario ttiles
  • The long wait from both Mario 64 and the Gamecube launch increased hype (and thus backlash) dramatically
  • Level design was repeatitive due to the theme.
  • Nintendo tried adding a story but wasn't experience at doing so at all.
  • Bowser Jr
  • The bonus levels made people long for more

That said, I really loved Sunshine (to the point where I originally beat it 100% on nothing but a 6-inch black & white screen). But its still understandable why people were disappointed in it.
 
DJ_Lae

DJ_Lae

Member
I enjoyed the FLUDD-less platforming levels and some of the main levels.

Hated the voice acting (good lord) and the boss battles. The underwater fish one had you wrestling with terrible controls and camera and the final boss was pathetic.
 
D

Dogenzaka

Banned
Segata Sanshiro said:
A lot of people hated FLUDD. The level designs, all being designed around the sunny beach island motif, were more similar than people were used to getting from Mario games. The story turned a lot of people off. It wasn't by any means bad, but it wasn't up to the expectations people had (and still have) for a mainline Mario game.
Click to expand...

I really don't expect "story" from a Mario game so I don't really see how people could have any "expectations" for it other than it involving Mario, Peach and Bowser.

Something about the cohesiveness of the levels (although some may call it repetitive) really stuck with me. The idea that everything was around a watery, island-design really made it stick, in my opinion.

One thing I didn't like about Galaxy was how, now that everything is a "planet", it almost gave Miyamoto an excuse to throw random crappy objects in the middle of space for level design even though they made no sense or cohesiveness. Like the random squid water slide..in the middle of space?
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
It's a 9 game, anyone that says elsewise is a fool and if they say the camera is broken, well they are spoiled and/or suck at games.
Click to expand...

Yes wanting a camera that doesnt give you angles where you can see your character in a platformer is really asking too much.
 
S

Swittcher

Banned
Absolutely FORCED myself to beat it.

That one mission where you have to clean up all the electric jellyfish goop within a time limit? FUCK THAT. I must have replayed that mission a good two dozen times. Then I shelved the game for 6 months.

I grudgingly picked it up again, and miraculously beat it. Then went on to fight one of the most disappointing boss fights ever. Such a letdown after Mario 64, but hey! It paved the way for how Mario Galaxy works, and for that, Sunshine deserves some credit.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
It was a good game marred by clunky controls (DAMN YOU YOSHI) unnecessary mechanics (again, DAMN YOU YOSHI!) and the Jet Pack was just kind of bleh for much of the game.
 
T

TheGreatMightyPoo

Banned
HK-47 said:
Yes wanting a camera that doesnt give you angles where you can see your character in a platformer is really asking too much.
Click to expand...

The camera's fine, people act like it makes the game unplayable, can't remember a time where it really bothered me.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Dogenzaka said:
I really don't expect "story" from a Mario game so I don't really see how people could have any "expectations" for it other than it involving Mario, Peach and Bowser.
Click to expand...

They expect it not to exist. Not be stupid and unskippable with horrific VA...
 
E

Empty

Member
I'm not sure, but i think i might possibly like it more than Mario 64 actually, it was interesting direction, the use of one cohesive setting was kinda cool, and those fludd free bonus stages were brilliant; it doesn't get close to the perfection of Super Mario Galaxy, though, but still one of the best platformers of last gen (with Sly 1 and Pyschonauts)
 
S

Segata Sanshiro

Member
Dogenzaka said:
I really don't expect "story" from a Mario game so I don't really see how people could have any "expectations" for it other than it involving Mario, Peach and Bowser.
Click to expand...
Sorry, my pronoun reference was busted there. By "It", I meant the game itself, not the story.
 
B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
People weren't loved in their childhoods and put all their hatred towards Sunshine.

Awesome game. I still remember the first time I saw it on a game store. I was so amazed.
 
A

andymcc

Banned
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
The camera's fine, people act like it makes the game unplayable, can't remember a time where it really bothered me.
Click to expand...

the hotel, many of the challenge stages, the last stage (i forget what it's called)...

good lord the camera was awful.
 
L

Lumpy Onion

Member
Its probably my favorite 3D Mario game right now. I can't prefer Galaxy over it yet because I have only played for a few hours of that one. I especially like the water FX and amount of colors used in each stage. And the FLUDD was an enjoyable feature IMO.

Some of the non-FLUDD special stages did make me throw a few controllers though. But when I finally did beat them I got a satisfaction unlike no other.
 
N

nincompoop

Banned
HK-47 said:
Yes wanting a camera that doesnt give you angles where you can see your character in a platformer is really asking too much.
Click to expand...
Try moving around that little yellow joystick on the bottom of your GC controller.

I've played quite a few 3D platformers, and Sunshine easily has the best camera of any of them.
 
L

Luigison

Member
It was the reason I bought a GCN and it did a good job of illustrating the GCN controllers strong points. I'm glad I played it before RE4.
 
S

Spire

Subconscious Brolonging
Fantastic game. FLUDD can be used as a crutch, but it can also be used to do some awesome shit. The game mixed the non-linear world design that I love with kickass pure platforming (the warp levels), I probably played it more than any other 3D Mario game.
 
B

Brera

Banned
Remains the worst addition to "main" Mario series. So bad, I think Nintendo pretend that it was always meant to be a side story and not really the sequel to Mario 64.

Worst than NSWB DS!
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
nincompoop said:
Try moving around that little yellow joystick on the bottom of your GC controller.

I've played quite a few 3D platformers, and Sunshine easily has the best camera of any of them.
Click to expand...

Hey idiot I did. The camera gets stuck and wont give you an angle in places like the hotel, the back of the ferris wheel, under the village, etc.
 
F

farnham

Banned
i loved it... not the best of the series but great atmosphere and tunes.. i also loved sliding on the tummy all the time
 
A

andymcc

Banned
HK-47 said:
Hey idiot I did. The camera gets stuck and wont give you an angle in places like the hotel, the back of the ferris wheel, under the village, etc.
Click to expand...

i like it when it gets stuck in between the wall in this stage.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Dogenzaka said:
One thing I didn't like about Galaxy was how, now that everything is a "planet", it almost gave Miyamoto an excuse to throw random crappy objects in the middle of space for level design even though they made no sense or cohesiveness. Like the random squid water slide..in the middle of space?
Click to expand...
Your complaining about Mario Galaxy not adhereing to logic. Mario Galaxy, the game where an italian plumber goes into space without a spacesuit, turns into a bee and then fights a turtle monster inside a lava sphere, right before the big bang occurs?
 
J

jett

D-Member
It has like what, 7 levels? And half of them suck dick. And the other half ain't that great.

Great gameplay mechanics gone to waste.
 
K

KuwabaraTheMan

Banned
It was (and still is) a fantastic game, and far superior to Super Mario 64 in every possible way. I'll never understand the hate this game gets. It was amazingly fun, had wonderful environments, and it was just so full of life. I don't think I've ever seen a platforming game with as much life breathed into it as Super Mario Sunshine. Even though Galaxy is a superior game, it didn't have nearly as great of a hub world as Super Mario Sunshine did. In fact, no game ever made has had a hub as great as Sunshine.
 
C

Chairman Yang

if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Do people really not understand the hate the game gets? Here are some points to consider:

* repetitive theme (already mentioned), and some repetitive gameplay to go along with it
* terrible, intrusive story. Other Marios were usually vacuous enough story-wise that your mind could fill in the blanks and appreciate the world as a sort of bizarre, surreal, imaginative alternate universe. Super Mario Sunshine, with it's cringeworthy dialogue and "Mama Peach" idiocy, actively harmed that feeling and replaced it with genuinely kiddy crap.
* camera problems
* bugginess and "jankiness" (for lack of a better word)
* blue coins: some of these were okay, but most epitomized the sort of arbitrary filler collectathon bullshit that Mario games had generally eschewed up to that point
* FLUDD: not inherently bad, but it should have been used in a world or two, not almost everywhere. It was something between a gimmick and a full-fledged feature, not the linchpin of the gameplay that it was treated as by the designers.

I don't want to sound too harsh on the game, because it was a worthwhile experience overall and at its best (the FLUDD-less levels and a few sections of the normal levels) it was as great as any other Mario game. It was still a massive disappointment, though, and I'm glad that Nintendo got its act together with Super Mario Sunshine.
 
S

Shalashaska161

Member
I remember disliking Sunshine when it first came out. Then I played it again last summer and absolutely loved it. The biggest problem I found was that the Blue Coin hunt seemed like a way to throw in another 30 stars without making any extra levels. The game itself though is awesome. The controls just feel so damn perfect, that it's fun just running around the island, let alone actually hunting for the stars.
 
D

Dogenzaka

Banned
grandjedi6 said:
Your complaining about Mario Galaxy not adhereing to logic. Mario Galaxy, the game where an italian plumber goes into space without a spacesuit, turns into a bee and then fights a turtle monster inside a lava sphere, right before the big bang occurs?
Click to expand...

Rather, I'm saying I enjoyed the cohesiveness that Sunshine gave with its thematic setpiece and level design around water and island attractions. Something that I enjoyed in contrast to Mario Galaxy.
 
T

The Awkward Wizard

Member
Because it wasn't Super Mario Galaxy?

I love it though. Solid 9 in my books. When I played this game as a kid, I kept trying to find a way to play as Shadow Mario. Jumping around Delfino, spreading gunk everywhere with my magic paintbrush. *sigh* maybe one day...
 
A

Alaskanbullworm

Member
I really liked the game, but the bad thing was that I was getting out of games right around when it launched so I never finished it. Luckily that phase didn't last that long. I still need to finish it up some time.
 
I

I NEED SCISSORS

Banned
You know, until I came on NeoGAF, I would never have considered FLUDD a 'crutch'.

I just think of Sunshine as a damn good game with brilliant graphics. It was one of the reasons why I bought a GameCube. In fact, bring on the hate: I got more enjoyment out of it than Super Mario 64.
 
L

L00P

Member
It's pretty challenging, but not a terrible game by all means. Never did collect all the sprites, though. Fuck blue coins.
 
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