paranoidfortean
Member
There's no way it couldn't be underwhelming after 64.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Why so much hate for Super Mario Sunshine?
- Thread starter Dogenzaka
- Start date
I don't hate it; it's not as good as 64 or Galaxy, but I don't think it should be cleansed with fire or anything like that.
It's a perfectly servicable Mario game. Unfortunately for me, it has three major flaws that ruined the experience for me.
1) The ferris wheel level, the camera in that. In general, the camera was pretty good; mostly on a par with 64's, which for a long time was the best implementation of a third person 3D camera ever. However, there was *something* in that Ferris wheel level which the camera really didn't like, and suddenly you were left fighting with it to climb up a tricky structure.
2) Yoshi. He's in the game, and that's nice, but his 'death' mechanic was handled *far* too harshly - it'd dump you on foot, and then if you're after a specific use for him you'd have to make your way back to where he spawned on foot and start over again. And was he meant to be made of paint, hence that dissolving effect? That could give people nightmares, you know...
3) The blue coins. I 120-starred Mario 64, I 120-starred Mario Galaxy (I'm intending to do a Luigi playthrough in the run up to Galaxy 2). I only just about got enough shines in SMS to get to Bowser, completed the game, then pretty much stopped playing, gathering the remaining 'obvious' stars but not really bothering with tracking down all the blue coins. The way these were implemented was *awful*. Requiring total collection to get 100% completion of the game, but only spawning the coins sometimes in *one* chapter of a given level, meaning - unless you were planning to use a guide - you'd have to search *every* chapter of *every* level *thoroughly* to find them all. That's just tedious.
So yes, those three factors tarnished the game, for me. I still enjoyed it, I still completed it, but it wasn't as perfect as 64 had been, and it utterly utterly pales when compared to the gameplay and design of Galaxy.
I didn't actually dislike FLUDD, unlike many people. But I should point out that I, too, adored the FLUDD-less levels. Except that Pachinko machine.
It's a perfectly servicable Mario game. Unfortunately for me, it has three major flaws that ruined the experience for me.
1) The ferris wheel level, the camera in that. In general, the camera was pretty good; mostly on a par with 64's, which for a long time was the best implementation of a third person 3D camera ever. However, there was *something* in that Ferris wheel level which the camera really didn't like, and suddenly you were left fighting with it to climb up a tricky structure.
2) Yoshi. He's in the game, and that's nice, but his 'death' mechanic was handled *far* too harshly - it'd dump you on foot, and then if you're after a specific use for him you'd have to make your way back to where he spawned on foot and start over again. And was he meant to be made of paint, hence that dissolving effect? That could give people nightmares, you know...
3) The blue coins. I 120-starred Mario 64, I 120-starred Mario Galaxy (I'm intending to do a Luigi playthrough in the run up to Galaxy 2). I only just about got enough shines in SMS to get to Bowser, completed the game, then pretty much stopped playing, gathering the remaining 'obvious' stars but not really bothering with tracking down all the blue coins. The way these were implemented was *awful*. Requiring total collection to get 100% completion of the game, but only spawning the coins sometimes in *one* chapter of a given level, meaning - unless you were planning to use a guide - you'd have to search *every* chapter of *every* level *thoroughly* to find them all. That's just tedious.
So yes, those three factors tarnished the game, for me. I still enjoyed it, I still completed it, but it wasn't as perfect as 64 had been, and it utterly utterly pales when compared to the gameplay and design of Galaxy.
I didn't actually dislike FLUDD, unlike many people. But I should point out that I, too, adored the FLUDD-less levels. Except that Pachinko machine.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Yeah, the long jump is just inherently fun to use. I love Galaxy, but even it hasn't completely replicated the incredible freedom of movement that Super Mario 64 had. All of the various jumps were easy to instantly pull off.
Mystery-white-boy
Member
So true. Galaxy without the long-jumping around tiny planetoids just wouldn't be Galaxy. Even in the traditional flat stages (and in SM64 as well) the long jump is something that just makes getting around more fun.HK-47 said:
Mr Sandman
Banned
So? I got the game for Christmas that year. :\Speevy said:
obijkenobi
Member
The thing I hated most was the lack of knowing which blue coins I needed and what levels they had to be found in. UGH. Also, the final battle was stupid easy.
you can reach pinata village before any other level in the game.
on the ledge just under the giant shine sprite on the shine gate (the pipe to the village is on top of the tower), do a triple jump off the ledge. At the top of the jump, activate the hover nozzle, and float back to the ledge. If you perform it right, mario will grab the edge of the tower, pulling himself up. you can then jump into the pipe for pinata village
on the ledge just under the giant shine sprite on the shine gate (the pipe to the village is on top of the tower), do a triple jump off the ledge. At the top of the jump, activate the hover nozzle, and float back to the ledge. If you perform it right, mario will grab the edge of the tower, pulling himself up. you can then jump into the pipe for pinata village
It was hard. Really hard. But then it was easy. It had horribly unbalanced difficulty. I was disappointed when I couldn't 100% it like I did Mario 64.
So glad Galaxy came along. And cannot wait for Galaxy 2. I am so happy they're putting out two awesome 64 sequels in such a small time.
So glad Galaxy came along. And cannot wait for Galaxy 2. I am so happy they're putting out two awesome 64 sequels in such a small time.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
My favorite parts of the game were the bonus stages where
takes FLUDD. It was pure 3D Mario platforming. Lovely stuff and hard as hell at times.
Bowser Jr.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Brera said:
Holy shit, there's a Wario Bros. game?!
... I don't think I would like playing as Waluigi, though.
abstract alien
Member
Man, did I love this game. I really enjoyed the harder difficulty compared to most mario titles, and I also loved the water. Framerate was THE biggest offender in this one, and I cant believe nintendo actually did that, but FLUDD made it less painful due to the floating. An amazing game, and I hope galaxy 2 has water just as good as Sunshine, but I doubt it.
PumpkinPie
Banned
Lack of inertia
jetpacks was yes
Member
The camera was just fine if you were raised on babysitting cameras from years of N64 platforming. And the controls are fast, tight, require quicker reflexes than either Mario 64 or Galaxy (I must admit that I was a bit disappointed by the slower Mario in Galaxy), even if I think that those are the better games. For pure 3D platforming character play mechanics it really has no match in my opinion, but it falls short on overall level design and thematic diversity. A sequel to the game consisting entirely of dozens of those sub levels could have made for an amazing, hardcore platformer.
I liked SMS and it was a worthwhile game despite its flaws in my opinion.
Liked:
- Great graphics
- F.L.U.D.D. was fun to use
- Bowser Jr. roller coaster boss
Disliked:
- Bowser. Jr was the lame t main villain
- Bowser with voice acting
- Those silly looking palm-tree head island citizens
- Art direction could have been better
- For the most part, the music was underwhelming
- Unimpressive cut scenes
- F.L.U.D.D. felt like a forced gimmick
- one of the worst tv commercials ever!
Liked:
- Great graphics
- F.L.U.D.D. was fun to use
- Bowser Jr. roller coaster boss
Disliked:
- Bowser. Jr was the lame t main villain
- Bowser with voice acting
- Those silly looking palm-tree head island citizens
- Art direction could have been better
- For the most part, the music was underwhelming
- Unimpressive cut scenes
- F.L.U.D.D. felt like a forced gimmick
- one of the worst tv commercials ever!
abstract alien
Member
Did anyone ever discover what the hell was in that cage underwater with the book, or whatever the hell it was?
Unforgivable act 1: Enforced separation of objectives WHY? Laziness is why. One of Mario 64's finest features was the ability to switch objective half-way through a stage if you felt like it. Hidden stars don't exist in Sunshine. If you're not doing the specific quest, the star isn't there. Fairly unforgivable for me - really ruins the feeling of a stage being a coherent place, and shows up short-cuts in the stage design.
Unforgivable act 2: Boring, unimaginative objectives.
Stages were interesting but the activities were always the same. I don't want to follow the same formula for each stage. I like collecting red coins, sure. But I don't want to always do a clean-up, always do a chase, always do a blue coins, always do a void stage. Although I loved the void stages.
Unforgivable act 3: There are bugs. Nasty bugs.
In the mushroom-level when you cling to the grating under the mushrooms... if you rotate the camera around Mario just lets go and falls off to his death. WTF? This is a mario game.
Stand on the boat in the fairground and sometimes you just fall straight through it. WTF? This is a mario game. I've been playing mario since the dawn of time, and Sunshine was the first time that game-breaking bugs showed up to me in regular gameplay (not just from messing around or looking to break stuff).
As a result of these UNFORGIVABLE ACTS, it feels unfinished, rushed even. Especially the fairground level and its horrific camera. And WTF with the loading just to get to the entry-area for the fairground, only to have to load AGAIN after running for 10 seconds.
Still, seems like Nintendo learned from their schedule-above-quality approach to Sunshine and Wind Waker and we'll never get a game before it's ready ever again.
Right, Nintendo?
*looks at Other M release date*.
RIGHT NINTENDO?
Unforgivable act 2: Boring, unimaginative objectives.
Stages were interesting but the activities were always the same. I don't want to follow the same formula for each stage. I like collecting red coins, sure. But I don't want to always do a clean-up, always do a chase, always do a blue coins, always do a void stage. Although I loved the void stages.
Unforgivable act 3: There are bugs. Nasty bugs.
In the mushroom-level when you cling to the grating under the mushrooms... if you rotate the camera around Mario just lets go and falls off to his death. WTF? This is a mario game.
Stand on the boat in the fairground and sometimes you just fall straight through it. WTF? This is a mario game. I've been playing mario since the dawn of time, and Sunshine was the first time that game-breaking bugs showed up to me in regular gameplay (not just from messing around or looking to break stuff).
As a result of these UNFORGIVABLE ACTS, it feels unfinished, rushed even. Especially the fairground level and its horrific camera. And WTF with the loading just to get to the entry-area for the fairground, only to have to load AGAIN after running for 10 seconds.
Still, seems like Nintendo learned from their schedule-above-quality approach to Sunshine and Wind Waker and we'll never get a game before it's ready ever again.
Right, Nintendo?
*looks at Other M release date*.
RIGHT NINTENDO?
lordoftherink
Member
There's a pretty good equivalent.Man God said:
But yes to the blue coins. And the 50 or so red coin shines. Talk about padding the length.
Buckethead
Banned
I like the game but:
-The level design is terrible 80% of the time
-The FLUDD had potential but wasn't used to full potential, rocket fludd blows
-Terrible, terrible FMVs and voiceacting
-The camera was frustrating
In general it was just too photo real and not magical enough. That intangible "wow" factor.
-The level design is terrible 80% of the time
-The FLUDD had potential but wasn't used to full potential, rocket fludd blows
-Terrible, terrible FMVs and voiceacting
-The camera was frustrating
In general it was just too photo real and not magical enough. That intangible "wow" factor.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Buckethead said:
:lol
lordoftherink
Member
Also, the back of the ferris wheel is *thankfully* easily skippable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l0fCK_818w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l0fCK_818w
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Chairman Yang said:
Eh. I kinda agree with this. Triple jumping in particular is a bit harder. However, I can forgive everything they did with jumps because they made walljumping tons easier. <333
Edit-
Wrath2X said:
FINALL!! Thank you so much!! I had been looking, desperately, for any way to discredit your opinion of NSMBW > SMG and this is it. Thanks again!
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Wrath2X said:That really doesn't change anything, its all subjective.
And why would you do this to me Andrex?
Because our guy love was based on lies, that's why!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
:lolMike M said:
Just about.
Eh, I loved it when I was twelve, but I only ever played it for like, six hour sessions over at a friends house. Good game, tried something new, didn't entirely succeed, but hey, at least they were trying, right?
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Wrath2X said:
I already gave your ticket to grandjedi.