AceBandage
Banned
I don't think there's a dislike for Japanese games, per say.
Just the formulaic RPGs that come out.
Just the formulaic RPGs that come out.
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In Defense of Japanese Gaming: Why The Dislike for Japanese Games in Recent Years?
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demosthenes
Member
You haven't, it sucks but with the fall of console gaming in Japan, they want to fuel console game sales in NA or Europe and they don't think their games will sell here, thus they're trying to change them and it's apparently bad to like them anymore :|
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Honestly? I blame this on Squenix. The DQ formula seems like it got its first real shake up in terms of mechanics just recently with DQ IX (which the west hasn't gotten yet), and FF13 represents what a lot of people dislikes about JRPGs. When you look smaller, then you find the awesome stuff like Persona, or TWEWY, or NierHimuro said:
H_Prestige
Banned
Not enough guns and bros in Japanese games. The xbox/ps3 demographic largely wants those things.
Open Source
Banned
I dislike many Japanese games because they haven't evolved enough since NES days. I also dislike almost everything about anime (narrative and visual style, character designs, etc.), one of the biggest influences on Japanese games. Also, the Japanese style of storytelling is to me overly formulaic and often nonsensical. The cultural gap also is a turn-off.
Many gamers are experiencing western games for the first time this generation, so they feel very fresh in the face of Japanese games, which are perceived as being stagnant. In reality, I think they're about equal in terms of that sort of thing, but there have been a lot of cool new ideas recently from both sides anyway.
As far as RPGs go, stuff like Resonance of Fate and The Last Remnant are pretty unique, but they don't really get very much recognition since nobody actually played them.
As far as RPGs go, stuff like Resonance of Fate and The Last Remnant are pretty unique, but they don't really get very much recognition since nobody actually played them.
InfectedZero
Member
Lost Planet 2 comes to mind for me, I love the game, but the controls are so god damn ridiculous sometimes, especially in the mechs. It could be way more simple and streamlined.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
Himuro said:
:lol
i love it.
I think it's really weird though that DQ gets singled out by Western gamers as being stale or formulaic. It's not very popular here...I really doubt most complainers have really examined the series and seen the various innovations it has brought to gaming throughout its existence. I think many don't realize or appreciate the narrative innovations in 4 or 5, for example, and just see them as plain RPGs with boring mechanics.The_Technomancer said:
demosthenes
Member
The_Technomancer said:
Squenix used to be a trend setter. They got afraid, and now they're just following the crowd.
Pureauthor
Member
Because Japan moved to handheld gaming (smart choice!) and the West views that as a downgrade.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
From a structural standpoint, the way that DQ played around with narrative and generations and such, yes, the series has been very innovative over the years, but from a mechanical standpoint, it seems to have remained "run around a large world in a semi-linear way encountering random monsters and fighting with the exact same battle system as the NES"Y2Kev said:
I actually love the advances that DQ tried to make with 4 and 5 and such, and wish that they had been more influential. Stuff like that could be really really good given a top-notch writing staff.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Oh hey, it's this thread again.
KibblesBits
Member
demosthenes said:
really?
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
The_Technomancer said:
DQ? One of the consistently well written and consistently awesome RPG series? Seriously?
People just hate on what they don't understand, and there are a lot of console gamers this generation that didn't play 2 generations ago. They don't really get Japanese games (no matter how similar they can actually be to Western titles).
Also, there's the constant "LOL ANIMU" bullshit, which gets on my nerves.
Open Source said:
And that doesn't make you take a hard look at yourself and wonder why you can't appreciate other cultures? Not to say that Japan has a superior culture or some other dumb shit statement.
Does it not concern you when you cannot appreciate what another culture has to offer? That doesn't make you worry about your own social growth as a citizen of the planet Earth?
Mr_Appleby
Member
i'll play anything, as long as it doesn't have guns and bros. guns is fine, bros is retch-worthy. i do like a lot of japanese games because they don't seem to be afraid to make games in niche genres, and i get a general sense of less focus-groupery.
nice. you gonna back that up or just let it sit there?
Open Source said:
nice. you gonna back that up or just let it sit there?
Vorg
Banned
MechDX said:
In terms of controls I agree. Still, RE5 has A LOT more replay value with the insane amount of weapon upgrades and a lot of other unlockables. Plus local and online co-op for the first time in the series. I love Dead Space, mind. I just think people tend to dismiss RE5 because of it, when they're both awesome games for different reasons.
I think having a preference for Japanese games is an odd thing, as is a preference for American/Eastern European games etc. Hopefully as gaming culture matures we'll see further recognition of particular studios etc. instead of arbitrary geographical groupings.
I think the rise of Japanese anime in popular culture has linked Japanese to mean "anime" styled to some extent.
Couple that with the "moe" backlash/hatefest of which I'm a part of, and you can understand that certain connotations come with today's preconceptions of Japan.
A lot of those themes have been present for years, but the recent focus only exacerbates the problem as gamers grow older, have spouses/children and genuinely get creeped out by the "moe".
There's other reasons to do with cinematics and interactivity which I might elaborate on later, as I'm typing on a phone :/
I think the rise of Japanese anime in popular culture has linked Japanese to mean "anime" styled to some extent.
Couple that with the "moe" backlash/hatefest of which I'm a part of, and you can understand that certain connotations come with today's preconceptions of Japan.
A lot of those themes have been present for years, but the recent focus only exacerbates the problem as gamers grow older, have spouses/children and genuinely get creeped out by the "moe".
There's other reasons to do with cinematics and interactivity which I might elaborate on later, as I'm typing on a phone :/
spiderman123
Member
the flashy "cool" moves that they have to perform like the FF movies always some slowmo shit that they have to perform with some corny line.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I didn't say anything about the writing in DQ. I agree, DQ has been a beacon of consistent writing and interesting stories. But the problem was that the mechanics barely evolved, something I'm glad to see IX addressing, as it bodes well for the future of the series.thetrin said:
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
Outside of Nintendo and Capcom, there just aren't that many truly fantastic grade A games coming out of Japan these days. I mean look, Nintendo and Capcom have always been at the top. But the other devs just aren't releasing stuff of the same quality or at nearly the same rate as last generation. In the PS2 era, a month didn't go by where there wasn't a great Japanese developed game released. Now we're lucky to get three or four in a year.
Which makes me sad because I generally prefer Japanese developed games.
Which makes me sad because I generally prefer Japanese developed games.
the nightman cometh
Member
Hey I'm into Tri-Ace still bringing the insane storylines and action rpg style. I don't care if Infinite Undiscovery and Star Ocean IV were almost universally panned, I still had fun playing them.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
The_Technomancer said:
Well, to be honest, DQ has stayed the same because the fans wanted it to stay the same. The mechanics have always just been the vehicle by which the player experiences the world, rather than the main attraction of the interaction (such as in FF).
DQIX is really not all that different. It just has a number of side quests and the ability to design your own character. It's still DQ.
Lazy vs Crazy said:
They're coming out. Just not in America. A lot of great games are being passed for localization these days.
Also, there are PLENTY of awesome Japanese games coming out, but if people don't want to consider the DS worth playing, then you miss out on a lot of them.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
I enjoyed RE5 much more than Dead Space, although I also liked Dead Space.MechDX said:
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
And no random battles, don't forget. The problem I had with the DQ mechanics was/is that while they keep the good stuff from game to game, they also always retained the infuriating stuff like, well, random battles.thetrin said:
Xenoblade seems like its shaping up to be a good evolution of the genre, maintaining the basic stuff that made JRPGs great, but acknowledging that there are some things the west did better, and learning from them. Not changing what it is, just taking influence.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I blame the shooter crowd for this growing trend. I do think Aeana's point that a lot of folks are experiencing western games more in recent years (since until 5 or so years ago the vast majority of western developers stuck to the PC) is probably playing a role in it, too.
Yeah, now Square just creates generic RPGs that are exactly what people have seen before like Final Fantasy XIII and The Last Remnant. Wait, what?
demosthenes said:
Yeah, now Square just creates generic RPGs that are exactly what people have seen before like Final Fantasy XIII and The Last Remnant. Wait, what?
TheExecutive
Member
S1lent said:
The Japanese really opened the gaming world. However, in recent years there have been alternatives to the Japanese dev community. These alternatives speak more to western cultures. That theory coupled with the Japanese focusing more on handhelds and smaller games lead the western market away from the JRPG. Oh, and this is JMHO.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
They still have random battles, you can just see the enemies now. The encounter system basically works the same way as ever, but you can see the guys now.The_Technomancer said:
TheThunder
Member
I don't really care about JP vs West. If it's good I'll play it.
Although I probably buy more westren stuff since I don't really like anime and a lot of japanese games draw from that. I don't care for playing a 14 year old kid with crazy spiky blue hair but that's just me and if there is a market for it more power to them trying to cater to that market.
The best game I played this gen is a japanese one, Demon's Souls, although you wouldn't know by looking at it. I'm looking forward to The Last Guardian and Marvel vs Capcom 3 so Japan still have a lot of interesting stuff for me.
I think both sides fall to often in copying who is making the most money right now but there is still some creativity to be had if you look around.
Although I probably buy more westren stuff since I don't really like anime and a lot of japanese games draw from that. I don't care for playing a 14 year old kid with crazy spiky blue hair but that's just me and if there is a market for it more power to them trying to cater to that market.
The best game I played this gen is a japanese one, Demon's Souls, although you wouldn't know by looking at it. I'm looking forward to The Last Guardian and Marvel vs Capcom 3 so Japan still have a lot of interesting stuff for me.
I think both sides fall to often in copying who is making the most money right now but there is still some creativity to be had if you look around.
TheExecutive
Member
Lazy vs Crazy said:
I am truly disappointed in Capcom games this generation. What are your favorite games?
this is an honest question
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
Yeah I kinda assumed this thread was about console gaming because handheld gaming is still largely dominated by Japanese developed games.thetrin said:
I used to love Japanese games (and still do sometimes) but I've gotten the distinct feeling that they've been stuck in the 90s for a while. They don't seem to have developed a lot of the more modern habits I find appealing in Western games, like sane auto-save systems, less-terrible AI, interfaces that aren't a chore to operate, and voice acting that may not make my ears bleed half the time.
I tend to like Nintendo games though because (surprise!) they do these things well. Online support is still way beyond them though.
I tend to like Nintendo games though because (surprise!) they do these things well. Online support is still way beyond them though.
I agree that there's nto a hate of japanese games per se, but a dislike of their usual cliches..
The emo guy that hates everything, the happy girl that jumps around making peace signs, said girl usually wearing a really short skirt, female characters that are size DDD; but under 17 years old, the ones in school uniform and in many cases are girls with skirts so short that in reality they woudl be suspended from school for wearing said uniform, the badass guy thet usually smokes and uses guns, swords or both...and so on..
RPGS tend to be the worst offender for some, because is like they need to have one characters fro meach cliche..for some reason..
The emo guy that hates everything, the happy girl that jumps around making peace signs, said girl usually wearing a really short skirt, female characters that are size DDD; but under 17 years old, the ones in school uniform and in many cases are girls with skirts so short that in reality they woudl be suspended from school for wearing said uniform, the badass guy thet usually smokes and uses guns, swords or both...and so on..
RPGS tend to be the worst offender for some, because is like they need to have one characters fro meach cliche..for some reason..
Pureauthor said:
This, they're getting behind the new trend and it's portables.
As for the question the thread is asking, I've always noticed it, especially in the time past '05 or so, but I find it funny that I never really thought much of it until this thread. The way I see it, both sides are offering up some crazy cool things to try out and enjoy, but the gaming public which is always looking towards the new is fascinated by what the west is bringing to the table. This isn't necessarily because what the west is doing hasn't been done before, but because it's the first time that it's all been done on the console front and that's where the bulk of the gamers are.
On another related note, since this thread seems like a good place for it, does anyone else think that Japanese devs changing to accommodate western audiences is a bad idea? (Note: Not hyperbolic "OMG WTF are they doing?!" bad, just kinda "bad".) I understand that in the interests of business, companies try to adapt and create products that resonate with a greater target audience. At the same time though, what if by pursuing the "western" and changing up their game plans, they start losing what makes Japanese games Japanese once the lines start blurring?
(I really hope that all reads better than it looks. :lol)
TheExecutive
Member
Jonnyram said:
This was my initial thought but then I came to my senses and thought it may be just my taste to western games.
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